The Official (State of the nation, enda kenny speech thread)

ed2hands

Enda KennyCharlie Haughey
January 1980:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4-bSKsVDr_M

Sir Oxman

funnyname wrote: »

Is this true?

In Enda's world, probably yes.
In reality, Jobbridge is wiping out paid work with the dole + another 50e funded by a private pension grab.

PRAF

EnoughIsEnough wrote: »

I agree with the view that this was not a State of the Nation Address.

Not sure what it really was. An apology for the forthcoming Budget perhaps.

How could anyone take this man seriously when HE himself orders - and I use those words advisedly - a €35,000 increase for a buddy when many unemployed men and women would gladly take a job just for that €35,000 not to mention the original €92,000 offered to his buddy who like all special advisors do not have to compete for such jobs.

This smacks so much of Charlie Haughey telling us - the little people - to tighten our belts while he was living like a Lord of the Manor.

How long will it take the people to figure out that this Govermnment is continuing as the others did - looking after their friends etc.

Who will stand up for decent people of ireland who deserve better than these "politicians"

Ok, you've just been elected Taoiseach and are about to run Ireland at a time when we are broke and at risk of financial disaster. Realizing that the same insiders in the civil service who got us into this mess, cannot credibly be expected to take us out, you know you can only trust a new team of independent experts.

You make an offer to a suitably qualified person and that person tells you, "for that money, you can f**k off, there's no way I'm taking on that level of responsibility for no payoff. Every decision I ever make will be subjected to scrutiny for decades to come, my face will be in the paper every day and my kids will probably be bullied in school if we have to shut down the local school / hospital / post office". Do you:
(a) break the ridiculous pay cap to get the right person; or
(b) hire some idiot who hasn't a rashers what they are doing

meoklmrk91

PRAF wrote: »

From reading Matt Coopers book (still not finished yet), I get the sense that a lack of open & honest communication was one of the biggest faults of the last govt. We were getting bullied by the EU and ECB (and probably still are). If only we had proper leadership back then who had the balls to take on the ECB and call their bluff, maybe we wouldn't be in such a mess. The only reason FF couldn't burn the bondholders was because the ECB threatened (totally un democratically) to withdraw liquidity support from our banks and effectively nuke our economy. It's too late to change all of that, however, I like what I hear from Enda and his calls for the ECB to take a bigger role in the Euro crisis. To be quite honest, until the ECB cops itself on, this economy as well as the Euro and World economy is probably f***ed.

We will likely be asked to permanently surrender at least part of our sovereignty in return for this - ECB / EU oversight of our budgets to satisfy the Germans, eventual rise in our corp tax rate to satisfy France etc.

I was surprised to hear him underhandedly admonish the EU and ECB to be honest. Which he did towards the end of his address, I didn't think that any Irish politician, in power and in their right mind would do something like that. But he clearly has balls, for lack of a better term. We had to accept certain terms in order to be bailed out, Enda got us a better deal, and fair play to him. He seems to have it under some control, unlike the blubbering, blundering Fianna Fail government. I do however concur that unless we get some sort of a break from the EU and the ECB it cannot be done, Germany is ruling with an Iron fist and any help we have gotten will not be forgotten for a very long time I suspect.

efb

I think Enda did well tonight -'Father that needs to be Stern' better than Alco Uncle and Chancer Wide boy that preceded him

PRAF

K-9 wrote: »

That sounds like a FF party political broadcast funnily enough.

Lenihan couldn't be contacted by EU Commissioners worried about the state of the banks pre the guarantee. A total joke, it turned out he was musing over advice from McWilliams and went against all the advice from his civil servants and expensively commissioned reports.

The Commissioner knew nothing about it until after it was announced. The ECB was funding Irish banks to the tune of €150/160 Billion at one stage and that couldn't go on.

This is typical blame anybody else but the Government line, and FG and Labour are just the same.

Basically not alone did FF f*ck up the country during the bubble, they also f*cked it up in response to the crisis. Once a Government uses its sovereignty to guarantee debts and bondholders it becomes very difficult to renege on them.

I'm not a FF fan by the way. Pretty much the opposite actually. But I'm sure as hell not an apologist for the ECB and I don't think their role in this should be minimised

(1) the EU & ECB knew pretty much everything about the banks, their balance sheets, even what the bankers were having for lunch since the inception of the Euro and probably before that. This info is transmitted all the time within the Euro area.
(2) is it not the job of a central bank to act as lender of last resort within a financial system? How the ECB can pretend it doesn't have this role is beyond belief IMO
(3) there are other treads about the guarantee and its impact. Two quick points though - (a) what was the alternative on that night when the guarantee was given. You cannot solve 10-15 years of madness and excess with 1 decision. (b) McWilliams advised to issue a temporary guarantee and then get all the creditors in the room and agree a deal. The ECB prevented the second, crucial, part of this from happening

FF are totally, utterly to blame for all of this. They created a problem that is too big for any Irish govt to fix on its own. The ECB are currently part of the problem and seemingly unwilling to be part of the solution

Dirk Gently

funnyname wrote: »

Is this true?

No.

In fact they have directly caused the loss of real paid jobs as well as a loss of real advertised positions and replaced them with employers social welfare and free labour positions at an additional cost to the state and a loss to money circulating in local economies.

MadYaker

I wonder he was so boring in this adress? His speech on obamas visit was pretty good, as was the one in the Dail after the Cloyne report.

Fishtits

Rubbish and bluff.

We know the story - we're in deep doo doo, etc.

We know the only realistic way out - via the Euro/Troika etc

We know how we ended up here.

What we want is accountability. Still no sign of that on the horizon...

I want Bertie et al grilled, and et al includes FG who were promising more of the same. at the end of the day, our politicians - of all hues, got us into this mess and they just walk away scott free?

The rumoured treaty change to allow EU oversight of national budgets would get my vote. I'm a big fan of having adults in charge of money. History tells us that our lot are incapable of prudent fiscal decisions, especially when it comes to buying elections.

Pathetic, the lot of them.

Until we have accountability and punishment for recklessness we're buggered.

"Lessons will be learned" wouldn't stand up as a defence in a District Court, why should we accept it from the Gov.?

I want heads on a plate when it goes wrong. Just like the private sector BTW, you F*ck Up, you fall.

Until this happens its just as you were. :mad:

funnyname

Dirk Gently wrote: »

No.

In fact they have directly caused the loss of real paid jobs as well as a loss of real advertised positions and replaced them with employers social welfare and free labour positions at an additional cost to the state and a loss to money circulating in local economies.

Indeed and I wouldn't be surprised if it leads to the collapse of more then a few pensions funds. Many of which have a major shortfall and what do the bright sparks in the new government do, hey lets raid them and put them even deeper in the hole.

bleg

Speech up on youtube.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PhsvmY3Q9cY

Quality

Jobs jobs jobs?

What about the 23,000 civil servants he plans on getting rid of?


Bet they will get nice golden handshakes and pensions!

funnyname

PRAF wrote: »

Ok, you've just been elected Taoiseach and are about to run Ireland at a time when we are broke and at risk of financial disaster. Realizing that the same insiders in the civil service who got us into this mess, cannot credibly be expected to take us out, you know you can only trust a new team of independent experts.

You make an offer to a suitably qualified person and that person tells you, "for that money, you can f**k off, there's no way I'm taking on that level of responsibility for no payoff. Every decision I ever make will be subjected to scrutiny for decades to come, my face will be in the paper every day and my kids will probably be bullied in school if we have to shut down the local school / hospital / post office". Do you:
(a) break the ridiculous pay cap to get the right person; or
(b) hire some idiot who hasn't a rashers what they are doing

The PAY-OFF is a gold plated public sector pension!

Sir Oxman

PRAF wrote: »

Ok, you've just been elected Taoiseach and are about to run Ireland at a time when we are broke and at risk of financial disaster. Realizing that the same insiders in the civil service who got us into this mess, cannot credibly be expected to take us out, you know you can only trust a new team of independent experts.

You make an offer to a suitably qualified person and that person tells you, "for that money, you can f**k off, there's no way I'm taking on that level of responsibility for no payoff. Every decision I ever make will be subjected to scrutiny for decades to come, my face will be in the paper every day and my kids will probably be bullied in school if we have to shut down the local school / hospital / post office". Do you:
(a) break the ridiculous pay cap to get the right person; or
(b) hire some idiot who hasn't a rashers what they are doing

Do you know if Conlon is suitably qualified for this position?
Nevermind that crucial factor, are you saying 80-92k per annum is not a decent salary?
Are you saying that this man could not live on this wage in these trying times as a service to his country?
What if he was to be rewarded substantially on completion of a successful term in his postion (note successful term, not merely being in his job for 4-5 years), success obviously measured in a major reduction in the numbers of unemployed (not some figure fiddling with usless jobbridge and FAS courses) and a substantive increase in aid for new small businesses being set up.

Just why should we accept that this close colleague of Kenny is worth this paycap break upfront.
Why can't he a patriotic Irishman accept 92k per annum and if he's a success in his role, pay him a bonus at the end of this govt's tenure.

Indeed, what the hell is the point in a paycap if it can broken through 16 times already at the whim of a minister or taoiseach.

Dyr

Fishtits wrote: »

The rumoured treaty change to allow EU oversight of national budgets would get my vote. I'm a big fan of having adults in charge of money. History tells us that our lot are incapable of prudent fiscal decisions, especially when it comes to buying elections.

It would probably be the last thing that would get your vote.

History tells us that ceding control of a nations most vital affairs to a third party is never in its best interests.

But the self loathing and yearning for a pat on the head from our betters runs deep in parts of our collective psyche of course

PRAF

gambiaman wrote: »

Do you know if Conlon is suitably qualified for this position?
Nevermind that crucial factor, are you saying 80-92k per annum is not a decent salary?
Are you saying that this man could not live on this wage in these trying times as a service to his country?
What if he was to be rewarded substantially on completion of a successful term in his postion (note successful term, not merely being in his job for 4-5 years), success obviously measured in a major reduction in the numbers of unemployed (not some figure fiddling with usless jobbridge and FAS courses) and a substantive increase in aid for new small businesses being set up.

Just why should we accept that this close colleague of Kenny is worth this paycap break upfront.
Why can't he a patriotic Irishman accept 92k per annum and if he's a success in his role, pay him a bonus at the end of this govt's tenure.

Indeed, what the hell is the point in a paycap if it can broken through 16 times already at the whim of a minister or taoiseach.

Agree with a lot of your sentiment. And if we lived in a perfect world, your solution might work. Unfortunately we don't.

Tell me, would you take the job and potentially put yourself up to lifelong media intrusion, public ridicule and anger, untold levels of stress for you and your family etc for 80k? It is a good salary but it isn't that good.

As an idealist, I'd prefer if these guys would work for free. As a pragmatist I don't really care if we give someone an extra 30k a year if he or she helps to fix a 20b problem.

The key thing is their performance on the job. If they do their job, and it is a monumentally tough job, they deserve the rewards

Bluesteel7

Fergus_Nash wrote: »

Fine Gael did a great job is upholding the impression that Enda Kenny was a terrible speaker during the election, and then at the couple of debates that were had, he didn't mess up and the people liked him. This is accepted analysis.

But when he gave a wonderful speech on College Green when Obama was over, his mask fell and that should be the Enda Kenny we hear from every day, not the lame, boring, monotone man of tonight. He can actually inspire when he wants to.

He was only inspirational at college green because he stole Obamas speech and changed a few words. What does that tell you about the man!!!!

paulaa

Bluesteel7 wrote: »

He was only inspirational at college green because he stole Obamas speech and changed a few words. What does that tell you about the man!!!!

It tells you he has a sense of humour and as they say, imitation is the sincerest form of flattery and Obama was flattered and laughed when he heard it .

PRAF

Bluesteel7 wrote: »

He was only inspirational at college green because he stole Obamas speech and changed a few words. What does that tell you about the man!!!!

Maybe he needs a few more advisers on 130k plus a year to research other speeches he could then steal to wow us with. Clearly the public wants to feel motivated and inspired so surely it would be worth the money?

Bluesteel7

paulaa wrote: »

It tells you he has a sense of humour and as they say, imitation is the sincerest form of flattery and Obama was flattered and laughed when he heard it .

And I am ROTFLMAO after the humour and comedy we heard tonight from him. Can't wait for the other FG/Labour stand up comedians on the floor of the Dail on the 2DAY budget this week.

Sierra Oscar

funnyname wrote: »

Is this true?

I would not count any position created under the internship scheme as a job. You cannot count a position where no wage is created as a job.

paulaa

Bluesteel7 wrote: »

And I am ROTFLMAO after the humour and comedy we heard tonight from him. Can't wait for the other FG/Labour stand up comedians on the floor of the Dail on the 2DAY budget this week.

The country is broke and you want a comedian Maybe you should have kept Cowen in

blahfckingblah

id rather a comedian than a joke

Dannyboy83

We'll we've got a speech from him, which is more than we ever got from Cowen.

And while I don't agree with the budgetary changes being made, I am glad that we F-I-N-A-L-L-Y have a plan and we are about to launch it! (3 years post crash!).

It's not the beginning of the end; it's the end of the beginning.
Let's all take 1 step forward. At last.

Lapin

Bluesteel7 wrote: »

And I am ROTFLMAO.........

Pics please.

I'm just curious to see how you can type and send a post while rolling around on the floor and laughing your ass off all at the same time. :rolleyes:

K-9

meoklmrk91 wrote: »

I was surprised to hear him underhandedly admonish the EU and ECB to be honest. Which he did towards the end of his address, I didn't think that any Irish politician, in power and in their right mind would do something like that. But he clearly has balls, for lack of a better term. We had to accept certain terms in order to be bailed out, Enda got us a better deal, and fair play to him. He seems to have it under some control, unlike the blubbering, blundering Fianna Fail government. I do however concur that unless we get some sort of a break from the EU and the ECB it cannot be done, Germany is ruling with an Iron fist and any help we have gotten will not be forgotten for a very long time I suspect.

I've heard plenty of calls for the EU and the ECB to act recently. It isn't ballsy, it's the norm now.

PRAF wrote: »

I'm not a FF fan by the way.

Well don't swallow the Cooper FF line then.

Pretty much the opposite actually. But I'm sure as hell not an apologist for the ECB and I don't think their role in this should be minimised

(1) the EU & ECB knew pretty much everything about the banks, their balance sheets, even what the bankers were having for lunch since the inception of the Euro and probably before that. This info is transmitted all the time within the Euro area.

If you can provide back up for that we can discuss it further.

(2) is it not the job of a central bank to act as lender of last resort within a financial system? How the ECB can pretend it doesn't have this role is beyond belief IMO

It wasn't in the ECB's remit AFAIK, which is why I'm wondering can you back up 1.

(3) there are other treads about the guarantee and its impact. Two quick points though - (a) what was the alternative on that night when the guarantee was given. You cannot solve 10-15 years of madness and excess with 1 decision.

The alternative was Dept. of Finance advice.

(b) McWilliams advised to issue a temporary guarantee and then get all the creditors in the room and agree a deal. The ECB prevented the second, crucial, part of this from happening

Again links. How long did Lenihan bring the guarantee in for? A couple of months? It certainly wasn't a temporary little arrangement and blaming the ECB for that is a cop out.

FF are totally, utterly to blame for all of this. They created a problem that is too big for any Irish govt to fix on its own. The ECB are currently part of the problem and seemingly unwilling to be part of the solution

Yep. The current part I've no problem with, the past part a bit more.

kkelly77

Enda Kenny's speech is what it is; a preview to the hardships that are going to be inflicted on us all in the upcoming budget.

The only positive was that he addressed the nation (as any country's government should).

Other than that it was the usual political talk talk talk talk talk talk talk.........

later12

Bambi wrote: »

History tells us that ceding control of a nations most vital affairs to a third party is never in its best interests.

Define 'nation'?

Skeheenarinky?
Tipperary?
Munster?
Ireland?

These places all had their own distinct tribes at some time in the past. What really makes us so different to the Scots, or the French, or the Italians?

Bambi

Bambi wrote: »

It would probably be the last thing that would get your vote.

History tells us that ceding control of a nations most vital affairs to a third party is never in its best interests.

But the self loathing and yearning for a pat on the head from our betters runs deep in parts of our collective psyche of course

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States

Drumpot

Quality wrote: »

Jobs jobs jobs?

What about the 23,000 civil servants he plans on getting rid of?


Bet they will get nice golden handshakes and pensions!

If there are 300,000 public servants and the maximum service age is 40 years. It means that over 7000 public service jobs a year through natural wastage. Most, if not all of these jobs will be through natural wastage and the person will be getting a lump sum and a pension.

People need to start reading the small print to see the big con. I am not pushing for job losses for the sake of it but it's absolutely shocking that we are going through the greatest financial crisis this state has ever suffered and not one person has lost their job in the public service. Natural wastage and contract jobs are the only ones! Its just a sign of our governments creative , mickey mouse "savings" that haven't been properly scrutinised.

Not just that, the phrase "public service bashing" has been coined to put people off debating the topic. Like the foreigner that pulls out the race card , public servants pull out the "bashing" card to frighten off would be challengers to their cause.

Incidentally I am not bashing the public services , just the ones that use the phrase to guilt people out of debates.