My Australian Gamble - Am I Crazy?

markfdrums

So I am off to Oz in Jan 2012.

I am currently working for a large worldwide logistics company based onsite in Dublin EU HQ offices of the worlds largest internet search giant (I cannot say who but you know who)

I decided to move about 7 months ago and got my flights etc before I got this role, when i got the job I paid extra and changed my flights.

Is this a crazy thing to do (leaving a very good job to no job in a new country?)

Im thinking aloud here

The biggest factor in my favour is somewhere to stay when i arrive in Sydney. My sister has just got her 10 yr visa and has been there for over 4 years. So I can stay rent free for the length it takes until I get a job.

I want to be interviewing in the first week and working the second...

I'm nervous!

ArraMusha

Go go go...and the best of luck to you. I know someone who left Ireland last weekend, like you have full time job and is now near Sydney with interview tomorrow, weather looked lovely yesterday on the skype.

Why stay here an let the government take your hard earned money to pour down a gamblers black hole. Why stay here and live with the fear of having your saving halved or worse. Why stay here with the cost of everything and it going up. Why stay here and listen to moaning and groaning. Why stay here in a shrinking economy with no resources and living off a corporation tax rate that's keeping the country afloat. Why stay here with the rain and wind and trying to stay warm and dry for 11 month and 28 days of the year. And finally why stay here with all our youngster 17-30 over there or heading over soon....and I forgot ...why stay here with all the fine sun blessed sheilas over there.

markfdrums

....if I go, I aint coming back...

Nervous

ArraMusha

..life is full risk, go for it. Did you watch the arrivals program on rte? Should be still on the player...anyone that went to Oz were working and happy they made the right decision..

Post back here in a few months and let us know how you got on.

CamperMan

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-15799571

ResearchWill

To be honest it is a real personal decision, my sister left 3 jobs in Ireland 1 full time 2 part time in 1981 to travel, she got to Sydney on her round the world trip, there now 30 years always had a good job went to university there married there kids and she never looked back. But she would say the difference between Ireland 1981 and Sydney 1981 miles apart now pretty similar except of course the weather. From what she has told me lots of things down under cheaper but lots are more expensive, you are lucky to have accommodation as that can be very expensive.

On the economic side Australia has not been hit by the downturn, But the warning signs are there Australia is been spoken about in property terms as over heating similar to Ireland circa 2006. Australia is very dependent on mining exports mainly to china, if Europe and US sink in to depression then China no longer exporting and Australia then hits problems.

Tigerandahalf

Oz has changed a lot in the last 5 years. In the big cities you are more likely to see a person of Asian decent. The face of the country is definitely changing. Then again places like Darwin have always had a strong Asian presence. The bigger thing is that oz has got v expensive. Wages have got crazy because of the resources boom. It's pushing up wages across all other sectors. Many european tourists are turning away because of that and the stronger dollar. The pensioner in the article above is a prime example.
Europe looks like it is in for a sustained down period. This will have to affect oz in some way. It is still a brilliant place to see. People say there is no culture but what about the aboriginal culture that was there for thousands of years. Great place to see. Once in a lifetime chance to travel for a year.

SONIC2008

Yeah you are maybe a little crazy, but do it anyway! I too am moving to Australia next year, the difference though is that I don't have a job. Whatever decision you make best of luck with it!

whosyour_daddy

I don't think you're that crazy to be honest. I would definately go unless you are earning a fortune here. You have experience, a place to stay and should have no problem landing a job. My cousin went a few months ago, walked into a recruitment agency and had a well paying job the NEXT DAY! No interview or anything.
I'm giving myself until the new year to get an engineering job here in Ireland. If not, then it's off to Oz in January!

sponge_bob

should ask your employer if they have a job for you in sydney, i prsume that they probably have offices there aswell;)

rediguana25

I'm in the same boat OP. Have a great job in EU HQ of one of the most profitable companies in the world. As a previous poster said- see if you can get a transfer. That's what I'll look into too. It does seem a bit mad but I know how you feel....if it's in you to go then you've gotta go. You will regret it if you don't. That's the reason I'm going to do it..but yes it's very scary and of course you're nervous..it is a big move. You don't have to stay there though. If you say to yourself that you will stay a year or so it may not seem so daunting...that's what i'm trying to focus on now too. You have to do it!:)

arandale

Yea, i fully agree with Sponge Bob, if you are a good employee they will not want to let you go. Please go and don't live with the ' what ifs' and the best of luck to you, you are lucky to have your sister,

Let us know how you get on and post us every now and again.

markfdrums

Thanks to all for opinions and responses - some good stuff.

My company has an office in Sydney but its more a pop-site.

Im writing this during Enda's speech.... this is so frickin weird :eek:

Oscars Well.

CamperMan wrote: »

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-15799571

There isn't a culture of going for a drink after work and the TV is terrible.
:pac: :pac: :pac:

Doc

I don’t know what a pop site is but you should defiantly look into getting a transfer to the Sydney office. It will make your life so much easier not only in that you will have a job set up for when you get there but also for getting a visa and if things don’t work out you can ask to be transferred back. That company is world renowned for being one of the best to work for so Id try and stay with them if I were you. Having said that with them on your CV you shouldn’t struggle to get a good job in another company here either.

jank

ArraMusha wrote: »

Go go go...and the best of luck to you. I know someone who left Ireland last weekend, like you have full time job and is now near Sydney with interview tomorrow, weather looked lovely yesterday on the skype.

Why stay here an let the government take your hard earned money to pour down a gamblers black hole. Why stay here and live with the fear of having your saving halved or worse. Why stay here with the cost of everything and it going up. Why stay here and listen to moaning and groaning. Why stay here in a shrinking economy with no resources and living off a corporation tax rate that's keeping the country afloat. Why stay here with the rain and wind and trying to stay warm and dry for 11 month and 28 days of the year. And finally why stay here with all our youngster 17-30 over there or heading over soon....and I forgot ...why stay here with all the fine sun blessed sheilas over there.

Ah christ spare the bull**** mate!! Jesus! Irish people are some of the most negative in the world!

Mike...

I am off thursday, In a similar position to yourself...best of luck with your move

statina

Do it, as Mark Twain said 20 years from now you will only regret the things you didnt do, not the things you did do. I left a fulltime permanent job at home and everyone thought I was mad to leave! But it was something I had to do and Im so glad that I did. I got work in my field within 2 weeks and am having a ball. Best of luck either way

mandrake04

Same here.... packed in a job/car etc 7 years ago and practically walked into the same position in Sydney, still here and have never been happier. Life is not worth living unless you are willing to gamble with it once in a while.

Zambia

markfdrums wrote: »

So I am off to Oz in Jan 2012.

I am currently working for a large worldwide logistics company based onsite in Dublin EU HQ offices of the worlds largest internet search giant (I cannot say who but you know who)

I decided to move about 7 months ago and got my flights etc before I got this role, when i got the job I paid extra and changed my flights.

Is this a crazy thing to do (leaving a very good job to no job in a new country?)

Im thinking aloud here

The biggest factor in my favour is somewhere to stay when i arrive in Sydney. My sister has just got her 10 yr visa and has been there for over 4 years. So I can stay rent free for the length it takes until I get a job.

I want to be interviewing in the first week and working the second...

I'm nervous!

If I had a job I loved and a pretty much secure Income I would have stayed in Ireland.

The sun may split the stones on good days here and opportunities are greater
but it is not for everyone.

Just because there are Sun drenched sheilas in Oz does not mean any are bound for your bedroom. Blokes that do well with the ladies at home are the same blokes that do well with the Ladies here.

Your euro will possibly go a lot further in Ireland than your dollar will here.

The fact you have family here is a big bonus. You will spend enough time missing the ones that are not here.

The one thing you cant take with you is your family and your mates.

markfdrums

Mike... wrote: »

I am off thursday, In a similar position to yourself...best of luck with your move

And you too MIke.

I'm trying to find a decent rate to ship some stuff over at the moment.

Really dont want to haul lots of stuff on the plane.

markfdrums

its getting close...!!!

I've spent the last few weeks sending the CV off and have a few agencies meets when I get there...

Also got a few no thanks mails which I'm putting down to currently still being in Ireland...hopefully.... :eek:

catbear

Well done. Have left secure jobs twice, been on the dole a few times, had loads of oportunity to rake in cash but didn't, life just been too interesting and i wish you well in yours.

sponge_bob

markfdrums wrote: »

its getting close...!!!

I've spent the last few weeks sending the CV off and have a few agencies meets when I get there...

Also got a few no thanks mails which I'm putting down to currently still being in Ireland...hopefully.... :eek:

i wouldn't worry too much about it, once you are there you will come across alot more job oppurtunities. alot of it will come from meeting people and mingling with people in the same line of work as yours.

whens the big day?

markfdrums

Yeah hope so..

Im off on the very last day of this month..

I will keep this thread updated throughout if anyone is in the slightest bit interested..

No 'oh its amazing blah blah blah' just straight up facts..

arandale

That would be fantastic, it would be good to hear how you get on warts and all. The best of luck to you.:) :rolleyes: :eek: :pac: :cool:

markymark21

Oscars Well. wrote: »

There isn't a culture of going for a drink after work and the TV is terrible.
:pac: :pac: :pac:

I'd have to dis-agree with the 'no drinks after work culture'. The chefs in work would go through their own mothers to get a few beers after work!

Although in London, the drinks after work thing is massive..The streets are jammers with people in suits drinking at 7.30pm

markfdrums

Hey so here a month...

Spent the first week job hunting - nothing. No responses really from anyone including agencies.

Second week got an interview for a 5 month contract role. Went to the interview and it turned out they wanted the role full time, permanent. Got the job and they were the ones talking sponsorship.

Accepted the role and the 457 application is in process.

My girlfriend is here on a tourist visa and will be going partner on the visa (agreed with the employer)

Money isnt great - 65k but they are covering all costs of sponsorship and want me to possibly enter a management role in 6+ months. This will mean more money.

Living in Sydney. The city is amazing it really is. But be warned it is $$$$$$$$$ crazy money. I spent 3K in a month and that was barely out drinking. I paid $6 for a bottle of water the other day.

Coupled with the pox x/r at the moment, someone coming over on a 417 would need AT LEAST 5K to survive (i stayed rent free with my sister too)

The job market is difficult, make no mistake about it (I havent read other threads here, just giving my 2 cents on that)

Thats all for now really except the weather has been awful but not too bad this week.

Mark.

markymark21

markfdrums wrote: »

Hey so here a month...

Spent the first week job hunting - nothing. No responses really from anyone including agencies.

Second week got an interview for a 5 month contract role. Went to the interview and it turned out they wanted the role full time, permanent. Got the job and they were the ones talking sponsorship.

Accepted the role and the 457 application is in process.

My girlfriend is here on a tourist visa and will be going partner on the visa (agreed with the employer)

Money isnt great - 65k but they are covering all costs of sponsorship and want me to possibly enter a management role in 6+ months. This will mean more money.

Living in Sydney. The city is amazing it really is. But be warned it is $$$$$$$$$ crazy money. I spent 3K in a month and that was barely out drinking. I paid $6 for a bottle of water the other day.

Coupled with the pox x/r at the moment, someone coming over on a 417 would need AT LEAST 5K to survive (i stayed rent free with my sister too)

The job market is difficult, make no mistake about it (I havent read other threads here, just giving my 2 cents on that)

Thats all for now really except the weather has been awful but not too bad this week.

Mark.

Congrats dude. Dunno if I could commit to the staying with one employer f

markymark21

Congrats dude. Good to hear you doing well so quickly. Dunno if I could commit to 4 yrs working with the same employer while in oz (probably due to the revolving doors that is employment within in the hospitatlity industry) but hope it works out anyway!

SONIC2008

Good to hear that you are getting on well. Wow I knew Sydney was expensive, but 3k in one month!?

Can someone just confirm this for me please. I asked in another thread but noone replied. So many people talk about getting sponsored and being stuck with the one employer. I found this on the Australian government website, am I totally missing something or are you allowed change employers as the following states from this webpage http://www.immi.gov.au/skilled/457-sponsor-obs-faq-visa-holder.htm

Can I change jobs?

Yes. Under the new laws coming into effect on 14 September 2009, you are required to work only in the occupation that is identified in your most recent approved nomination and only for the sponsor who nominated you in the most recent approved nomination.

If your sponsor wanted to employ you in a different occupation, your sponsor must lodge a new nomination in respect of that occupation. Once the new nomination has been approved by the department, you will be able to start working in that occupation.

If you want to change sponsors, your new proposed sponsor must lodge a nomination for you. Once the new nomination has been approved by the department, you may, subject to any requirement to give notice to your old sponsor, commence working for your new sponsor.

In either case, you will not be required to apply for a new subclass 457 visa, unless your existing visa is about to expire.

markfdrums

Hey,

Yes to answer your question you can transfer your 457 to another employer. You just need an employer willing to do it.

Its not easy though. The onus is really on the employer at the moment and they have to provide nearly more documentation (proof that they tried to train an Aussie etc)

I would also imagine one would encounter friction between you and your current employer if they were not keen to let you go. There is an element of 'we did you a huge favour' to it.

Also know that if the transfer is not completed by the time you are due to start your new role, you cannot be in receipt of a wage from your new employer and some applications take months.

mandrake04

You can only change employers if they take over your sponsorship, you keep the same visa (part 3) but the company has to nominate (part 1 & 2) which to most is a hassle.

457 is really the worst visa to be on, not the holy grail it's made out to be.


As for the expense it's a head wrecker for the first 6 months because you are used to paying for stuff in Euro. Expensive holidaying because of the crap Xchange rate but for living the Brits on other forums use a rule of thumb 2.4

If you earn X in UK and pay Y for living then you should earn 2.4X in Aus but expect to pay 2.4Y for living.

What hammers most people is when they first move over their start up money seems to be drained, was probably the same for Aussies 5 years ago if they moved somewhere like London. Where now with the current Xchange rate the shoe is on the other foot.

markfdrums

I would nearly go x 3 times the wage..

Yes you are right though, if i didnt have some place to say rent free I would not be here

markfdrums

when min wage is around 15-17 $ an hour it gives some idea of what you should earn. But be prepared to earn less than your ideal salary starting off as if you are on a 417 you will only get temp unless a company is willing to sponsor from the get-go.

mandrake04

markfdrums wrote: »

I would nearly go x 3 times the wage..

Yes you are right though, if i didnt have some place to say rent free I would not be here

The Brits use the £ so for € the same rule could be 2.8, once you forget about what you pay in € the easier it will get.

SONIC2008

Thanks for explaining, so its pretty difficult to change jobs once sponsored. Some good advice there, jesus i'm as nervous as hell I wont get a job there. I've qualifications but not very much relevant experience so I'm guessing its going to be very difficult. I'm lucky that I have free accomodation there though.

markfdrums

Dont be worrying seriously. Give yourself a month and you will be fine. I got here expecting a job on my first day!

markymark21

SONIC2008 wrote: »

Thanks for explaining, so its pretty difficult to change jobs once sponsored. Some good advice there, jesus i'm as nervous as hell I wont get a job there. I've qualifications but not very much relevant experience so I'm guessing its going to be very difficult. I'm lucky that I have free accomodation there though.

Whats your qualification in?

SONIC2008

A cert in special needs education, a degree in psychology and a masters in counselling and psychotherapy. I'm ok in terms of qualifications but all my relevant work experience is voluntary. There are lots of great jobs on that "SEEK" website, but they seem to favour experience over qualifications which is understandable.

markfdrums

You will be fine. Just concentrate on the temp roles to start.

My problem was sending CV's for perm jobs with a cover letter saying I was on a 417.

Agencies won't even return mails if they see that...

Suppose I was just very lucky my role changed to perm an hour before I went for the interview and I had a window of opportunity which is all you need. This Oz project is mainly luck. I'm realising that big time now

Esse85

markfdrums wrote: »

You will be fine. Just concentrate on the temp roles to start.

My problem was sending CV's for perm jobs with a cover letter saying I was on a 417.

Agencies won't even return mails if they see that...

Suppose I was just very lucky my role changed to perm an hour before I went for the interview and I had a window of opportunity which is all you need. This Oz project is mainly luck. I'm realising that big time now

Did you eventually remove the bit saying your on a 417 visa?

I've that on my resume and I'm getting nothing back.

markfdrums

Well if you are looking for a false dawn I would say yes. But agencies will call and the very first question will be about your status. Honesty is the best policy as you will p1ss them off otherwise.

My recruiter specialises in accounting and said he is getting 100's of top 4 banking experienced Cvs a week but doesn't have the roles. ANZ recently announced cuts.

If I was you I would get signed up with Adecco and the usuals. Get your foot in the door as they say.

SONIC2008

You have alot of valuable info Markfdrums,

What would turn the employer off hiring someone on a 417? Im just wondering if its because they question how long you will be there for, your commitment, or is it the cost of sponsorship or the amount of paperwork?

I had planned on explaining that though I am on a 417, I have emigrated for the sole reason of finding a job and would be interested in staying longer should the option of sponsorship become available. Would that stand out or would it be the same as what everyone else writes regardless of their intentions?

markfdrums

By all accounts we had pretty similar cover letters!

Agencies will ignore a 417 as they were probably instructed by the employer that they wanted perm residents only. Saying that, my employers were fine with sponsoring as they had done it before.

If I was you, I would bypass the agencies and try direct to companies. They only care if you legally entitled to work which you are.

Another factor is the cost of hiring someone via an agent, its 5K on average for a successful placement. Agencies will be reluctant to put you forward knowing that you can only legally work there for 6 months.

Interesting to note I only spoke to agents who were irish or poms...they know the score but are exactly like the agents from home as they ARE the agents from home!!

markymark21

SONIC2008 wrote: »

A cert in special needs education, a degree in psychology and a masters in counselling and psychotherapy. I'm ok in terms of qualifications but all my relevant work experience is voluntary. There are lots of great jobs on that "SEEK" website, but they seem to favour experience over qualifications which is understandable.

Pretty impressive. I can imagine however you'd need experience to get a job in this field.. but its the ol' situation of how do you get experience if no one will hire you..

Maybe you could do an intern-ship or something, or does anyone from back home have an contacts you could hit up in Oz?


Anyway as someone else was saying I think its important to put your Visa status down, they'll only ask you in the end anyway.


I think it depends on the sector you work in in regards to whether or not your status will greatly affect your job prospects. Some businesses will gladly take on WHV holders. Others not so much!

SONIC2008

No, I have no links for anyone in that field of work I'm afraid. I'll just try get casual work and hopefully I'll get a break. Anything is better than sitting here on the dole!

So I know its early days, but how do you feel about the move now?

markfdrums

Well I'm on my way to work now and just crossed the harbour bridge with the sun coming up over the opera house, its pretty amazing.

I love it. The city is great but it is hard to get settled. My sister has been here for a long time now so that was a help but all in all, the thoughts of going home anytime soon is frightening.

markfdrums

So my sponsorship (457) was granted 2 weeks ago (one week after lodging via Fragomen agents, paid in full by the company) and my partners de-facto came at the same time. No issues. About 4 months door to door which is actually quite good considering she was on a tourist and me a 417...

Here till at least 2016 yay!

Galwayguy35

markfdrums wrote: »

So my sponsorship (457) was granted 2 weeks ago (one week after lodging via Fragomen agents, paid in full by the company) and my partners de-facto came at the same time. No issues. About 4 months door to door which is actually quite good considering she was on a tourist and me a 417...

Here till at least 2016 yay!

Lucky man. Sure maybe you might get permenant residency.

arandale

Mark congratulations and to your girlfriend too. I'm so glad its working out for you you both and many thanks for keeping in touch.