Taoiseach Enda Kenny goes back on salary cap for minister

lightspeed

http://news.eircom.net/breakingnews/20220212/

Absolutely outraged at the amount of pre election promises that fine Gael have gone back on. I'm not surprised and to be fair it's next to impossible to predict the economy so its next to impossible to predict what areas of government will need to be cut and by how much. However there is no excuse for this latest betrayal in which Enda has decided against the wishes of the minister for finance to go over the salary cap set at €92,000 and given a €35,000 pay rise to minister of jobs Ciaran Conlon who is now on €127,000. How do the magicians of the wealthy in this country defend such actions. How is it that we having rising unemployement and the minister for jobs gets a pay rise ? How is it that we should be expected to accept tax rises and pay cuts because it is neccesary for the good of the country and yet people can't survive on €92,000.
Peace is overrated . I'd rather see dublin became more like Tahir square in Egypt than to continue to accept such continued corruption.
Angela Merkel has got it right when she recently said in regard to the euro that "politics has failed"
It makes me wonder what would it take for all out mayhem with the military getting involved and protestors getting shot dead in the streets of Dublin . It seems an extreme scenario but the euro appears to be about to crash and the Germans are demanding a fiscal union. These are extreme times and it appears the stick of dynamite is getting closer to the point of explosion.

invinciblePRSTV

Anyone surprised that FG wouldn't engage in the same kind of cute hoorism and cronyism which their sister party FF was notorious for whilst in power must be very naive indeed.

Tweedleedee and tweedledum, that's all FG & FF are.

Sir Oxman

Chopper Chopra made him do it! Another L'Oreal moment.
When will these imbeciles ever, ever learn.
All it takes to bring most of the nation with you is transparent fairness and actual leadership.
That's all.
So much change and reform and fairness promised and most of the goodwill gone in a matter of months.

Remember this tonight as our 'leader' tells us to tighten our belts.
What a bloody country.

Manach

This was mentioned in an older thread a few weeks back with FG & Lab ministers breaching the caps for their advisors?

D500B

I really don't think that Enda should be overruling Noonan on these matters. If Enda feels Noonan isn't making the right decisions he should replace him. Otherwise actually listen to your minster for finance.
One thing I miss about Lenihan was when he faced down Cowan and actually managed to put through a public sector pay cut when Cowan had tried to put in place that bizarre "10 days of un paid leave" fudge

Baralis1

I think this news story is unreal. I'm far from an Enda Kenny fan. I saw through all his false promises before the election. Promises that he hadn't a hope of keeping in the current economic climate but made anyway because he would say and do anything to get into power.
I don't agree with the OP that we couldn't predict the economic climate. The country is feiced and massive cuts in every area of expenditure are needed to reduce our massive deficit. Promising not to cut certain things was completely misleading the voters.

This story however has absolutely shocked me. The absolute gall of the man to increase the salary of this special advisor after all he shouted across to Brian Cowan about cutting salaries in the last Dail. The absolute gall. What a complete hypocrite! Words can even describe it. It looks like this man is some sort of a cronie of Enda Kenny to go against all he said before the last election. It also looks like Kenny thinks he's untouchable because of the huge majority the government have. But be warned Kenny, 3 down so far and we haven't even had a budget yet. Are you really going to survive 4 more budgets?

bmaxi

The longer this goes on the more I'm convinced it's going to take blood on the streets to change the attitude of the oligarchy.
How, in all honesty, can Kenny expect his " State of the Nation" address to be taken seriously in light of this? He might as well take a walk around Dublin and kick homeless people in the balls, turf sick people out of their beds and take the bread from hungry children.
No doubt we'll be told "it's not much in the scheme of things", if that's the case why is it a big deal when the same criteria is applied to a SNA or a nurse, then it's unaffordable. Fcuking hypocrites.

anymore

I am still inclined to go some way to make allowances for Fg given the poisoned chalice they and we inherited from the truly most awful Government this country has ever seen. However what credit I was giving Kenny for standing up to the Vatican is being diluted. I am rapidly reversing to my long held opinion that Kenny is an over promoted, particularily sycophantic school teacher - and in this regard i am inclined to apologise to the teaching profession for lumping him in with them.
I still remember the week that Kenny was called a 'traitor' by O Rourke for the ' crime ' of Criticising the then Taoiseach whilst he was out of the country. Within a few days, Kenny was photographed attending an exhibition of paintings by his former rival FF's Pee Flynn.
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=65934456
This is just an example of FF like parish pump take care of your own gombeenism. The more timne elapses sine the general election, the more people will ask ' what is the difference between FF and FG ' Well kenny is shouting loud and clear ' Nothing' which is tragic.

jasonc5432

bmaxi wrote: »

No doubt we'll be told "it's not much in the scheme of things"

I personally laugh out loud when I hear this nonsense too

'its not much in the scheme of things'

'It wouldnt plug the hole in our national deficit'

'Its only 40 grand sure'

'Sure he deserves it'

'Leave him alone, communist'

'He is only one person, whereas there are many poor people, so cut them instead'


BLAH BLAH BLAH

Defending the indefensible as always in Irish politics.

If Kenny's own peers and supporters would ACTUALLY stand up for themselves AND this country, they'd tell him this is a nonsense, and it would be reversed.

Of course, this wont happen, as FG are EXACTLY the same as FF, and FG supporters will support Kenny NO MATTER WHAT!

That's why he did it! Because he knows FG voters are all back slappers, just like FF voters.

Follow the leader.

Not ONE FG TD or minister will stand up against this ludicrous breach of government pay cap... not ONE!! I hope they prove me wrong.

However, the following words come to mind when I think of FF and FG:



"Whatever the party holds to be truth, is truth. It is impossible to see reality except by looking through the eyes of the Party."

dlofnep

He simple doesn't get it. The rest of the country is told to tighten our belts, while he engages in cute hoorism, lending a helping hand to 'one of the lads'. Anyone who thought Fine Gael would be any different than Fianna Fáil is deluded.

jasonc5432

dlofnep wrote: »

He simple doesn't get it. The rest of the country is told to tighten our belts, while he engages in cute hoorism, lending a helping hand to 'one of the lads'. Anyone who thought Fine Gael would be any different than Fianna Fáil is deluded.

But surely he is ONLY one person? Surely he deserves it? Surely he probably should have gotten more, and only got a 38% pay increase, which would barely be enough for a new beamer.

Come on lads! Lets all share the pain!
Leave the 'lads' alone.

They're doing the best that they can. Enda is our leader. We cant question him surely?

And, at the end of the day, like all these top job fellas, youll probably find he was 'legally entitled' to this increase.... even though it goes against the government's own salary cap.

But, aside from that, the PR line on these things is 'legal entitlement', so SURELY that applies here.

Communist!

yosemite_sam

A pension for a cabinet minister in the UK is £43,000 a year and they pay tax out of it. I heard this the other day and thought of the clowns here

jasonc5432

yosemite_sam wrote: »

A pension for a cabinet minister in the UK is £43,000 a year and they pay tax out of it. I heard this the other day and thought of the clowns here

Ah yeah, but you seem to forget -- our lads 'deserve' it!!

Look at the smashing job theyre doing!

As someone said recently -- these high wages and pensions are what they all worked so hard for, and who are WE to question them!

So, stick that in your pipe and smoke it, while reading more of your Stalinist doctrine!

Blood on the streets? Tahir square?

Many of you need a severe reality check. I'd love to see you trying to explain your problems to someone in Egypt who can't afford to eat twice a day.



And then to say that our Taoiseach has no concept of reality? pft.

jasonc5432

Rojomcdojo wrote: »

And then to say that our Taoiseach has no concept of reality? pft.

That's it -- UP ENDA -- YUP YA BOY YEH!

As long as the lads are looked after, the rest of ye can all go to Egypt for all FG cares!

Pack of lefties!

jasonc5432

jasonc5432 wrote: »

That's it -- UP ENDA -- YUP YA BOY YEH!

As long as the lads are looked after, the rest of ye can all go to Egypt for all FG cares!

Pack of lefties!

You know, the recession has really taken it's toll on the intellectual nature of these politics forums. Factual analysis? pft. Empty rhetoric? YAY.

jasonc5432

Rojomcdojo wrote: »

You know, the recession has really taken it's toll on the intellectual nature of these politics forums. Factual analysis? pft. Empty rhetoric? YAY.

I agree--

Factual analysis -- Enda Kenny continues cronyist politics in Ireland with 40% pay increase for his mate, one of the lads, breaching the government pay cap for such positions.

Party political rhetoric -- 'he's the taoiseach so go to Egypt and tell them about it if you dont like it!' - Rojomcdojo (paraphrase)

Well said Rojomcdojo

jasonc5432

jasonc5432 wrote: »

I agree--

Factual analysis -- Enda Kenny continues cronyist politics in Ireland with 40% pay increase for his mate, one of the lads, breaching the government pay cap for such positions.

Party political rhetoric -- 'he's the taoiseach so go to Egypt and tell them about it if you dont like it!' - Rojomcdojo (paraphrase)

Well said Rojomcdojo

Well, if that's what you've gathered from my posts then I am just going to have to presume that you simply can't read. Another victim of our education system. Good day, sir.

jasonc5432

Rojomcdojo wrote: »

Well, if that's what you've gathered from my posts then I am just going to have to presume that you simply can't read. Another victim of our education system. Good day, sir.

I agreed with you. Good day to you too sir.

Dont forget to put on the jersey and set the video recorder for Enda's big moment later on!

I'm so excited!

Let's here him tell the lowest earners how they need to tighten their belt --- even though his mates belts are barely able to close because theyre so stuffed with cash!.

Up Enda! Dont mind all them begrudgers! They're only jealous of the wealthy is all!

They think SHARING THE PAIN should happen to EVERYBODY! How misled they are! A load of doom and gloomers who should probably have done what Bertie told them to go and do .. a long time ago.

anymore

Time for Kenny to don the DUNCES CAP

lightspeed

Rojomcdojo wrote: »

Blood on the streets? Tahir square?

Many of you need a severe reality check. I'd love to see you trying to explain your problems to someone in Egypt who can't afford to eat twice a day.



And then to say that our Taoiseach has no concept of reality? pft.

It's early days yet , let's sum things up

1). If im not mistaken Unemployment has risen to 14.5% with 450,000 or more on the dole and the minister for jobs has been given a pay rise
2). Theres a likely probability that the euro currency may collapse and anybody who says otherwise is gambling on the same theory of wishfull thinking fuelled by imagination approach that has Europe in the mess it is in.
3) Enda has broken most of the promises his party made before him and his clown crew got into power
4) with more taxes and Europe already officially entered a recession it is realistically impossible for stability and economic growth to exist, there will be more jobs lost and more welfare costs to come.

In light of the above and considering I appear to have lost my concept of reality can you explain to me what the reality is and please justify a pay rise to the minister for jobs or any other minister for that matter?

If the euro does crash and we enter a depression with politicians getting pay rises like this, Governor Enda Kenny will end up like colonel Gaddaffi.
This idea that because we are so used to peacefully living that there won't be blood is another theory based soley on wishfully thinking.

beeroclock

lightspeed wrote: »

It's early days yet , let's sum things up

1). If im not mistaken Unemployment has risen to 14.5% with 450,000 or more on the dole and the minister for jobs has been given a pay rise
2). Theres a likely probability that the euro currency may collapse and anybody who says otherwise is gambling on the same theory of wishfull thinking fuelled by imagination approach that has Europe in the mess it is in.
3) Enda has broken most of the promises his party made before him and his clown crew got into power
4) with more taxes and Europe already officially entered a recession it is realistically impossible for stability and economic growth to exist, there will be more jobs lost and more welfare costs to come.

In light of the above and considering I appear to have lost my concept of reality can you explain to me what the reality is and please justify a pay rise to the minister for jobs or any other minister for that matter?

If the euro does crash and we enter a depression with politicians getting pay rises like this, Governor Enda Kenny will end up like colonel Gaddaffi.
This idea that because we are so used to peacefully living that there won't be blood is another theory based soley on wishfully thinking.

Those pay rises are well merited I will have you know. Our politicans are doing trojan work in leading us to greener pastures. Their defined sense of leadership, concrete fiscal plans, honesty and integrity in implementing post election promises and clear vision for this country leave with me with the feeling that if anything they are underpaid and overperforming

Good on ya Enda I say

Meanwhile back in the real world..

lightspeed

lightspeed wrote: »

1). If im not mistaken Unemployment has risen to 14.5% with 450,000 or more on the dole and the minister for jobs has been given a pay rise
2). Theres a likely probability that the euro currency may collapse and anybody who says otherwise is gambling on the same theory of wishfull thinking fuelled by imagination approach that has Europe in the mess it is in.
3) Enda has broken most of the promises his party made before him and his clown crew got into power
4) with more taxes and Europe already officially entered a recession it is realistically impossible for stability and economic growth to exist, there will be more jobs lost and more welfare costs to come.

1 - Can you comment on the competency of the current minister? With facts please?

2 - Likely probability? You lose all credibility right here. What does that even mean?

3 - No he hasn't. That's just a lie.

4 - More taxes because the people need to pick up the slack for our lovely public services and welfare systems. We need to pay for the things we want in life. At the moment we cannot and must borrow to make up the shortfall. Hence more taxes.


People need to stop acting like an 8 euro reduction in the dole makes Enda Kenny the second coming of Colonel Gaddaffi. I re-iterate, if you actually believe this then your view of reality is SKEWED horribly.

jasonc5432

Rojomcdojo wrote: »

1 - Can you comment on the competency of the current minister? With facts please?

2 - Likely probability? You lose all credibility right here. What does that even mean?

3 - No he hasn't. That's just a lie.

4 - More taxes because the people need to pick up the slack for our lovely public services and welfare systems. We need to pay for the things we want in life. At the moment we cannot and must borrow to make up the shortfall. Hence more taxes.


People need to stop acting like an 8 euro reduction in the dole makes Enda Kenny the second coming of Colonel Gaddaffi. I re-iterate, if you actually believe this then your view of reality is SKEWED horribly.

Kenny has written personal correspondence to the effect that a member of his advisers should receive a 38% pay increase, putting that mans pay about 40 grand, roughly, above a government pay cap of 92 for such positions.

He then, simultaneously expects us to accept that people out of work as a result of an economic crisis created by people just like the man receiving the 40% payrise, should receive a cut.

Now, YOU believe that this is correct, right, and proper.

I think youll find it is YOU who is out of touch with reality.

To a pretty scary level quite frankly. Id be worried being honest

lightspeed

Rojomcdojo wrote: »

1 - Can you comment on the competency of the current minister? With facts please?

2 - Likely probability? You lose all credibility right here. What does that even mean?

3 - No he hasn't. That's just a lie.

4 - More taxes because the people need to pick up the slack for our lovely public services and welfare systems. We need to pay for the things we want in life. At the moment we cannot and must borrow to make up the shortfall. Hence more taxes.


People need to stop acting like an 8 euro reduction in the dole makes Enda Kenny the second coming of Colonel Gaddaffi. I re-iterate, if you actually believe this then your view of reality is SKEWED horribly.

1) Did I not mention that unemployment has RISEN to 14.5% from 14%, if he so competent to deserve a pay rise given the circumstances then why is unemployment on the rise?
2) well by likely probability I mean the way many people are happy to say there is no way the euro will fail even though Angela merkel is saying it can't survive without a fiscal union which means a treaty change that Ireland for one will NEVER EVER agree to no matter how many referendums we have.

3) well there was the hospital closure in Roscommon that they had promised to save but that does not really matter I suppose all them peasants should just go private.

Theres the cuts to education grants which are likely be cut further in the budget despite election promises made not to do so.

They promised better transparency and to end the cronyism in politics before the election yet 5 out of 6 judges appointed have cosy connections to fine Gael and the minister for transport also made appointments to positions for more cosy friends of fine Gael
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2011/1114/1224307527510.html

Pay caps for politicians don't exist in reality despite election promises



4) that goes without saying that there needs to cutbacks but how do you justify this when there are consultants earning over €300,000 and politicians getting pay rises

In conclusion can you highlight which pre election promises fine gale under enda kennys leadership have kept?

You are awfully optimistic to think that the worst case scenario is an €8 cut in the dole. If the euro collapses and we enter a depression , There will be serious and severe poverty. Compare that to the corruption in the middle east and apart from people chanting "Allah Wah Bah" what's the difference. Why do think the people under such circumstances will not take up arms to execute the corrupt traitors of this country like they did in Libya?
We have large rising unemployment, blatant rising corruption, increasing poverty, taxes and rising crime, A currency that is on the brink of collapse which will lead to a run on the banks where the people are going to take every cent out of the banks until government intervention and violence erupts on the streets, sprinkle decades of corruption on top of that and tell me why a Libya like scenario is not possible ? Why not?

Professor, without knowing precisely what the danger is, would you say it's time for our viewers to crack each other's heads open and feast on the goo inside?

jasonc5432

Rojomcdojo wrote: »

Professor, without knowing precisely what the danger is, would you say it's time for our viewers to crack each other's heads open and feast on the goo inside?

Kent Brockman

Mr Trade In

It just might be that time, however many will find if they do crack open their heads the government has been and gone already as they are empty.

Sir Oxman

Here's a novel idea.
Why not pay this advisor the entry level salary of 80k (or if his friend Kenny insists) the supposed top rate of 92k and in 4 ior 5 years time if he has done his job correctly and there are more people in work and less on the dole as a result of his efforts and advice let's reward him with a nice bonus for a job well done.
If on the other hand he fails, no bonus and no publicly paid job but he's earned a very good and decent salary over those years.

He also gets to have a fuzzy feeling of having helped his country back to recovery whilst maintaining a very decent standard of living for himself.

johngalway

Leo Varadkar was on radio this morning.

€200,000 was the paycap. That has not been breached.

The "rise" was in line with policy that says people coming to work for Government who had previously received higher salaries would basically need to be met somewhere along the pay scale road. Otherwise, why work for Government when one could make more money in the private sector?

On the face of it, it's not a good news story.

Delve deeper, look at the "timing" and it's obvious as to what is it, a story put out TODAY to damage Enda Kenny.

I don't know whether I agree with the payment or not, I think there are more important things going on.

Mr Trade In

No one in opposition would dare call on this government to go as they themselves wouldn't want to take over. The old adage always comes to mind in situations like this, in times of poor prosperity one those in power can dine on fine meat and wine without concern for the cost. Many of us voted these lying rats in on the basis of their many broken promises. In the end they only look out for themselves and their own.

hatrickpatrick

El.s, Godge, Permabear, etc: What say you to this?
Your silence is deafening.
Godge in particular. You persistently refuse to acknowledge the existence of a political elite or 1%. You refuse to acknowledge that croneyism is endemic in Ireland.

So how do you defend this new outrage, exactly?

bmaxi

I see tonight that the new Italian Prime Minister has decided to forgo his salary for the good of the country, in light of the austerity measures to be introduced.

JP Liz V1

Disgrace :mad:

lightspeed

just saw the address to the nation by honest Enda. The only reason he was sitting was because would have just thought it was another cheesy Irish stand up comedian. I loved the part where mentions the cuts to ministers salaries cut backs made in the the public sector.
At least there is some bloke in limerick tha it his dignity back.
That cheers me right up and completely justifies giving "special advisors" a €35,000 pay rise.

Godge

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

El.s, Godge, Permabear, etc: What say you to this?
Your silence is deafening.
Godge in particular. You persistently refuse to acknowledge the existence of a political elite or 1%. You refuse to acknowledge that croneyism is endemic in Ireland.

So how do you defend this new outrage, exactly?

Have to work for a living so can't be on boards all the time to respond to every charge that is made. I asked a question on boards of ODS (who asked for questions) three days ago about one of their four core demands to which I have yet to receive a response so it is a bit rich to be calling me and others out for failing to respond in minutes to a newspaper article from the Daily Mail.

I have said that cronyism was a feature of FF governments. I have also said that Transparency International have shown Ireland to be one of the least corrupt countries in the world. I have pointed out that our Public Appointments Commission is unchallenged in respect of cronyism and corruption for appointmemts made under its aegis. All of that is unchallenged and unaffected by one article in the Daily Mail.

This is only an outrage for those who are easily outraged. Advisers work closest with the Ministers. The Ministers need to pay them what they are worth and what they have to pay to get them on board. It actually might be a good idea to compare the salary rates for the FG/Lab advisers with the FF ones that preceded them. From my own knowledge of the subject, I am certain that the costs are much less now than they were before. Bertie Ahern's advisers were on salaries that went over €200,000 in some cases.

cyberhog

johngalway wrote: »

Leo Varadkar was on radio this morning.

€200,000 was the paycap. That has not been breached.

That is quite clearly a load of old cobblers.

Mr Kenny’s private secretary e-mailed the secretary general of Mr Howlin’s department in July.

“I wish to convey the Taoiseach’s request for sanction of an annual salary of €127,000 for Mr Ciarán Conlon,” the e-mail stated.

“The Taoiseach understands that the amount involved goes beyond the guidelines but believes that it is appropriate that the sanction requested would be provided in this specific case.”

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2011/1205/1224308583046.html

johngalway wrote: »

I don't know whether I agree with the payment or not, I think there are more important things going on.

I think to dismiss it as a non-story is quite frankly absurd. Hard working Irish people are taking pay cuts and losing entitlements and our Taoiseach thinks it's appropriate to breach a salary cap and top-up an adviser's salary by €35,000! It's a disgraceful decision.

Liam Byrne

Godge wrote: »

Daily Mail.

Irish Examiner, actually.

[MOST BULLCRAP WHATABOUTERY DELETED]

From my own knowledge of the subject, I am certain that the costs are much less now than they were before. Bertie Ahern's advisers were on salaries that went over €200,000 in some cases.

So ?

Is it a cap or not ?

Or is it yet another lie from Kenny, saying he'll so one thing and then doing something different ?

Q : "When is a cap not a cap?"
A : "When it's an ''I'll eat my hat''" from some one who stupidly trusted this shower to do what they said they'd do.

Bondholders : Reneged
No new taxes : Reneged
Salary Caps : Reneged
Reform : Reneged

I'd expect if - and more - from FF, but I naively thought FG would at least try to be fair.

To my fellow Irishmen : my apologies for helping give this shower power.

dlofnep

I'll say something for Liam - he's consistent if anything and doesn't engage in party politics. Can't say the same for myself at times, but kudos.

jank

Maybe, but man he is always negative. If Ireland is not like Camalot then he gives out about it. He must enjoy it because he is always doing it. Never offers solutions either.

Zamboni

This revelation undermined every single word in Mr Kenny's address yesterday evening.
It is and was, without a shadow of a doubt, a knowing abuse of power by the Taoiseach, regardless of the timing release of this information.

rodento

Kinda confused about this, is Enda saying there is one pay rate for those from the privite sector and another lower rate for those from the public sector...

InchicoreDude

Kenny had been doing so well up to this.

There has to be cuts to lots of areas. People would accept this. But this is just a slap in the face to everybody.

I voted FG; not because I believed their pre-election promises; I knew they couldnt keep them (I assumed everybody did.... Election promises should never be taken too seriously anyway....).

However, I voted for FG because I thought they had far more integrity than any other party, in particular Enda Kenny. But this stunt has completely flipped my opinion. How can a taoiseach basically tell everybody they will have to make cuts and then give such a large pay increase to one of his aides? I havent actually seen any justification in the articles I have read either (Has it been provided somewhere?)

I will be hit by this budget, not a whole lot, as I am in my 20's single without a family. I wasnt overly concerned about the hits I will take (Like increased motor tax) and still am not, but I will now feel seriously bitter over them. I probably wont get a pay increase this year (Despite actually overperforming at work), so I will have less money next year. Contrast this to Kennys adviser (Has he actually done something to deserve this rise?); the budget will not have any meaning to him now, as he will have more money next year. So much for everybody having to dig deep.....

I have always voted for FG, but shall never do so again. I defended them in their first few months in government when people criticised them as I thought they were genuinely trying to change things.

Labour really should see this as an opportunity. Recently, there have been murmurings of discontent, and there has been suggestions of FG throwing their wieght around when Kenny answered a question in a direct fashion about Labours pre-election promises. Labour should come out today, and force FG into a reversal on this decision; this would allow them to get supporters back on their side, strengthen their position in government.

If Labour dont do this, My only hope left is to vote for Sinn Fein in the future. This is the party I actually believe will adhere to their promise about politician wages.

Kenny has fallen so dramatically in my opinion of him with this. It is the end for me & FG.

Interestingly, my parents (who live near Mayo) were telling me that they were listening to Mid West Radio this morning and that there were many calls criticising Kenny. Kenny was revered in Mayo up to this, so this really could be a turning point for him.

Liam Byrne

jank wrote: »

Maybe, but man he is always negative. If Ireland is not like Camalot then he gives out about it. He must enjoy it because he is always doing it. Never offers solutions either.

Farcical comment re Camelot. I'm not looking for a utopia by any stretch of the imagination - basic decency, accountability, fairness and ethics are hardly too much to ask.

As for solutions - I have repeatedly suggested that people take responsibility for their own choices and debt - be those choices re having kids or buying houses; the problem is that by letting others off the Government has undermined its own moral right to say this.

As Kenny did with his pay cap issue.

We need someone who is interested in reform, not someone who talks about it and then does the opposite.

Sir Oxman

The problem with Labour using this as some sort of opportunity is that, well, they too have been at this breaking the paycap for advisors lark.

If I remember correctly, they began the jobs for the boys advisors thing the last time they did well in an election (1992), +30 seats
Megabucks paid for a plethora of party activists

Both FG and Labour are infected by the L'Oreal effect.

Liam Byrne

dlofnep wrote: »

I'll say something for Liam - he's consistent if anything and doesn't engage in party politics. Can't say the same for myself at times, but kudos.

Why would I engage in something that I think is complete bulk**** and detrimental to the country ?

I've repeatedly said on here that I have no party allegiance and it was only the entrenched party apologists of various persuasions who tried to misrepresent that position to undermine my attempts to tell it like I see it.

anymore

rodento wrote: »

Kinda confused about this, is Enda saying there is one pay rate for those from the privite sector and another lower rate for those from the public sector...

Lower rate for the publ;ic sector ?
According to a letter to Examiner in defence of the public sector, the pay rate for cleaners in PS is only € 20 per hour 9 plus of course pension, payd sick leave etc. ) Pay for cleaners in Prv sector is ....of course, minimum wage !

hatrickpatrick

Godge wrote: »

This is only an outrage for those who are easily outraged. Advisers work closest with the Ministers. The Ministers need to pay them what they are worth and what they have to pay to get them on board. It actually might be a good idea to compare the salary rates for the FG/Lab advisers with the FF ones that preceded them. From my own knowledge of the subject, I am certain that the costs are much less now than they were before. Bertie Ahern's advisers were on salaries that went over €200,000 in some cases.

Who the person is or what role they are performing is totally irrelevant.

Fine Gael introduced a cap on such payments. Enda Kenny has personally intervened to overrule the government, to give this person a pay rise.

The fact that this person is a former colleague only becomes relevant after you have already taken the above into account. It makes it more scandalous, but the scandal in the first place is for the government to announce a cap, and then to make exemptions to it. The fact that this person is a croney of Enda Kenny is merely an escalation of that disgrace.

tl;dr - don't announce a cap unless you plan to enforce it.

anymore

Godge wrote: »

Have to work for a living so can't be on boards all the time to respond to every charge that is made. I asked a question on boards of ODS (who asked for questions) three days ago about one of their four core demands to which I have yet to receive a response so it is a bit rich to be calling me and others out for failing to respond in minutes to a newspaper article from the Daily Mail.

I have said that cronyism was a feature of FF governments. I have also said that Transparency International have shown Ireland to be one of the least corrupt countries in the world. I have pointed out that our Public Appointments Commission is unchallenged in respect of cronyism and corruption for appointmemts made under its aegis. All of that is unchallenged and unaffected by one article in the Daily Mail.

This is only an outrage for those who are easily outraged. Advisers work closest with the Ministers. The Ministers need to pay them what they are worth and what they have to pay to get them on board. It actually might be a good idea to compare the salary rates for the FG/Lab advisers with the FF ones that preceded them. From my own knowledge of the subject, I am certain that the costs are much less now than they were before. Bertie Ahern's advisers were on salaries that went over €200,000 in some cases.

• Ministers do not pay the advisors, we the taxpayer do.
• If Advisors are such an important part / component of government the electorate is entitled to know the identities and pay rate of proposed advsiors before elections.
• How much influence do advisors have over public policy and where is the transpareancy and accountability ?

rodento

anymore wrote: »

Lower rate for the publ;ic sector ?
According to a letter to Examiner in defence of the public sector, the pay rate for cleaners in PS is only € 20 per hour 9 plus of course pension, payd sick leave etc. ) Pay for cleaners in Prv sector is ....of course, minimum wage !

I was referring to the post below

johngalway wrote: »

Leo Varadkar was on radio this morning.

€200,000 was the paycap. That has not been breached.

The "rise" was in line with policy that says people coming to work for Government who had previously received higher salaries would basically need to be met somewhere along the pay scale road. Otherwise, why work for Government when one could make more money in the private sector?

Kinda like benchmarking:pac:

anymore

The point should be made that an 'advisor' who has spent a period advising a Government Minister will find his earning capacity and employment prospects greatly enhanced - this is a fact rarely mentioned in these types of discussions.