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Was the Republican campaign justifiable?

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    #452
    Fiatach
    Closed Accounts Posts: 55 ✭✭Fiatach


    Liam Byrne wrote: »
    :rolleyes:
    Come back to me when you want to debate without petty insults and fiction.

    Have you found a war yet which had no civilian casulties? Look at the Tan War for instance. The majority of deaths caused by Irish Republicans from 1969 onwards was around 1,100 British forces, armed to the teeth. It was the longest armed campaign the British military faced in their entire history.


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    #453
    Fiatach
    Closed Accounts Posts: 55 ✭✭Fiatach


    I think this thread should be in the military section as it was a military campaign carried out by the 32 county Irish army.


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    #454
    Liam Byrne
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,163 ✭✭✭✭Liam Byrne


    Fiatach wrote: »
    Liam Byrne wrote: »
    :rolleyes:
    Come back to me when you want to debate without petty insults and fiction.

    Have you found a war yet which had no civilian casulties? Look at the Tan War for instance. The majority of deaths caused by Irish Republicans from 1969 onwards was around 1,100 British forces, armed to the teeth. It was the longest armed campaign the British military faced in their entire history.

    1,100 is a "majority" over 1,000 - the 1,000 is still completely unacceptable and could easily have been avoided had cowards not left bombs in crowded shopping areas while they scarpered off home to safety.

    If you want to engage an enemy, then work away.....but do not murder innocent people.


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    #455
    Fiatach
    Closed Accounts Posts: 55 ✭✭Fiatach


    Liam Byrne wrote: »
    1,100 is a "majority" over 1,000 - the 1,000 is still completely unacceptable and could easily have been avoided had cowards not left bombs in crowded shopping areas while they scarpered off home to safety.

    If you want to engage an enemy, then work away.....but do not murder innocent people.

    I dont think the IRA killed 1000 civilians. They detonated tens of thousands of bombs and the figure of civilian causlties is quite low for a 30 year campaign. But I agree with you, the economic war put too many innocents at risk and should have been halted the first time a bombing operation went wrong. Thankfully bombing economic targets and expecting the enemy to clear the area of civilians is a thing of the past as they used it to their advantage.


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    #456
    Liam Byrne
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,163 ✭✭✭✭Liam Byrne


    Fiatach wrote: »

    I dont think the IRA killed 1000 civilians. They detonated tens of thousands of bombs and the figure of civilian causlties is quite low for a 30 year campaign. But I agree with you, the economic war put too many innocents at risk and should have been halted the first time a bombing operation went wrong. Thankfully bombing economic targets and expecting the enemy to clear the area of civilians is a thing of the past as they used it to their advantage.


    OK - I'm out. Too much apologist phrasing that for me to be able to stomach.


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    #457
    junder
    Registered Users Posts: 2,706 ✭✭✭junder


    Fiatach wrote: »
    jiffybag wrote: »
    Not a clue do you have OP .

    I can still smell the burning flesh , still hear the screams and still taste the horror that was the Omagh bomb . If you ever get that close to such horror and can still be proud to be a Republican or what ever then you have no morals or no soul!

    All this done at 3pm on a busy Saturday afternoon in the name of a free Ireland . Balls!! Murders and nothing more !

    Do you think Irish Republicans set out to kill people in a mainly nationalist town like Omagh? As I said lessons of mistakes like Omagh seem to be learned, bombs in town centres are thankfully a thing of the past.

    According to the HET team in the Case of Enniskillen the ira did indeed set out to kill civilians


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    #458
    Fratton Fred
    Closed Accounts Posts: 26,567 ✭✭✭✭Fratton Fred


    Fiatach wrote: »
    I dont think the IRA killed 1000 civilians. They detonated tens of thousands of bombs and the figure of civilian causlties is quite low for a 30 year campaign. But I agree with you, the economic war put too many innocents at risk and should have been halted the first time a bombing operation went wrong. Thankfully bombing economic targets and expecting the enemy to clear the area of civilians is a thing of the past as they used it to their advantage.

    Economic war? What is that?

    Last I heard they were fought with tariffs and embargos. Who did Irish terrorists fight an economic war?


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    #459
    LordSutch
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,078 ✭✭✭✭LordSutch


    Not sure that we should be feeding this 'Fiatach' character, he seems to be a new strain of PIRA supporter thats even more impervious to normal sensibilities than the previous crop. Mentally he seems to have been locked in an ice block (similar to Wesley Snipes in Demolition man), a man from the past, with brutish ideas, and who supports the murderous ideas from the past too.

    I am steering well clear of that one!


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    #460
    maccored
    Registered Users Posts: 10,661 ✭✭✭✭maccored


    junder wrote: »
    According to the HET team in the Case of Enniskillen the ira did indeed set out to kill civilians

    The HET team? Isnt that the boys employed by themselves to investigate themselves? The Historical Enquiries Team is laughable in that it is a unit of the PSNI. Very fair Im sure.


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    #461
    KeithAFC
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,239 ✭✭✭✭KeithAFC


    maccored wrote: »
    The HET team? Isnt that the boys employed by themselves to investigate themselves? The Historical Enquiries Team is laughable in that it is a unit of the PSNI. Very fair Im sure.
    The PSNI is supported by Sinn Fein. If it doesn't fit in with the Republican view point, it is biased and not worth taking note of.


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    #462
    Fratton Fred
    Closed Accounts Posts: 26,567 ✭✭✭✭Fratton Fred


    maccored wrote: »
    The HET team? Isnt that the boys employed by themselves to investigate themselves? The Historical Enquiries Team is laughable in that it is a unit of the PSNI. Very fair Im sure.

    The HET team is the one that we like if it says things we want to hear and ridicule when it doesn't. Simples.


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    #463
    trendyvicar
    Closed Accounts Posts: 208 ✭✭trendyvicar


    What firm historical conclusions has HET reached so far?


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    #464
    maccored
    Registered Users Posts: 10,661 ✭✭✭✭maccored


    KeithAFC wrote: »
    The PSNI is supported by Sinn Fein. If it doesn't fit in with the Republican view point, it is biased and not worth taking note of.

    SF have never agreed with HET. From day one they said it was too biased - and as usual were ignored
    Fratton Fred wrote:
    The HET team is the one that we like if it says things we want to hear and ridicule when it doesn't. Simples.

    Its completely up to you Fratton Fred, what you say and when. Simples. (I am assuming the 'we' you refer to is yourself)


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    #465
    KeithAFC
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,239 ✭✭✭✭KeithAFC


    maccored wrote: »
    SF have never agreed with HET. From day one they said it was too biased - and as usual were ignored



    Its completely up to you Fratton Fred, what you say and when. Simples. (I am assuming the 'we' you refer to is yourself)
    Sinn Fein talk for effect. They say they want an international independent inquiry and yet we all know they are bluffing because it would look really bad on Sinn Fein and are just saying it because they know the British government doesn't want one.

    Sinn Fein though support the PSNI. Unless it supports a Republican view point which they agree with (Bloody Sunday for example), they don't want to know.


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    #466
    Hannibal
    Registered Users Posts: 1,815 ✭✭✭Hannibal


    KeithAFC wrote: »
    Sinn Fein talk for effect. They say they want an international independent inquiry and yet we all know they are bluffing because it would look really bad on Sinn Fein and are just saying it because they know the British government doesn't want one.

    Sinn Fein though support the PSNI. Unless it supports a Republican view point which they agree with (Bloody Sunday for example), they don't want to know.
    Keith there's no republican point of view on Bloody Sunday, people have always known what happened and the fact the British army murdered 26 unarmed civilians.

    SF were the first party to call for an independent truth commission in 2008. You're right in saying the British government don't want one and it's because they have far more to hide about their involvement than republicans ever will, the extent on which their collusion extended into the troubles is something that would cause great embarassment for them if it were to come to light.

    SF supports the PSNI because they recognise the fact that for any functioning society to work it needs a police force that's reliable, unbiased and fair across all communities which is precisely why the RUC was disbanded.


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    #467
    trendyvicar
    Closed Accounts Posts: 208 ✭✭trendyvicar


    Dotsey wrote: »
    Keith there's no republican point of view on Bloody Sunday, people have always known what happened and the fact the British army murdered 26 unarmed civilians.

    SF were the first party to call for an independent truth commission in 2008. You're right in saying the British government don't want one and it's because they have far more to hide about their involvement than republicans ever will, the extent on which their collusion extended into the troubles is something that would cause great embarassment for them if it were to come to light.

    SF supports the PSNI because they recognise the fact that for any functioning society to work it needs a police force that's reliable, unbiased and fair across all communities which is precisely why the RUC was disbanded.

    I doubt SF want details on all those Republican murders (over 2000 of them) put into the public domain, including, not only details on those who pulled triggers and planted bombs, but also those who gave the orders. There's quite a number of Republicans now who have substantial personal assets that PIRA victims could attack in the civil courts. Not to mention the time those involved might have to serve in jail, even if released early.

    By the way, The RUC wasn't disbanded, it was incorporated into The PSNI, having been awarded The George Cross - The UK's highest civilian award for valour.


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    #468
    KeithAFC
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,239 ✭✭✭✭KeithAFC


    trendyvicar wrote: »
    I doubt SF want details on all those Republican murders (over 2000 of them) put into the public domain, including, not only details on those who pulled triggers and planted bombs, but also those who gave the orders. There's quite a number of Republicans now who have substantial personal assets that PIRA victims could attack in the civil courts. Not to mention the time those involved might have to serve in jail, even if released early.

    By the way, The RUC wasn't disbanded, it was incorporated into The PSNI, having been awarded The George Cross - The UK's highest civilian award for valour.
    Not to mention Gerry Adams and his disappearing squad and Martin and his expertise in bombing.

    To say the British Government have far more to hide than Sinn Fein is just nonsense. Sinn Fein have a lot of dirty "secrets".


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    #469
    Fiatach
    Closed Accounts Posts: 55 ✭✭Fiatach


    Liam Byrne wrote: »
    OK - I'm out. Too much apologist phrasing that for me to be able to stomach.

    Id say the real reason is you were caught out inventing civilian casulties to score points in an online debate :cool:


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    #470
    Fiatach
    Closed Accounts Posts: 55 ✭✭Fiatach


    Fratton Fred wrote: »
    Economic war? What is that?

    Last I heard they were fought with tariffs and embargos. Who did Irish terrorists fight an economic war?

    Strategic bombing is a military tactic in Economic warfare.


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    #471
    junder
    Registered Users Posts: 2,706 ✭✭✭junder


    Dotsey wrote: »
    KeithAFC wrote: »
    Sinn Fein talk for effect. They say they want an international independent inquiry and yet we all know they are bluffing because it would look really bad on Sinn Fein and are just saying it because they know the British government doesn't want one.

    Sinn Fein though support the PSNI. Unless it supports a Republican view point which they agree with (Bloody Sunday for example), they don't want to know.
    Keith there's no republican point of view on Bloody Sunday, people have always known what happened and the fact the British army murdered 26 unarmed civilians.

    SF were the first party to call for an independent truth commission in 2008. You're right in saying the British government don't want one and it's because they have far more to hide about their involvement than republicans ever will, the extent on which their collusion extended into the troubles is something that would cause great embarassment for them if it were to come to light.

    SF supports the PSNI because they recognise the fact that for any functioning society to work it needs a police force that's reliable, unbiased and fair across all communities which is precisely why the RUC was disbanded.

    As I have already pointed out sinn fein are playing a double bluff with thus call for a truth commission, they are calling for because the are safe in the knowledge that the British government won't call one, last thing sinn fein wants is those all those new voters finding out exactly how blood thirsty the pira really are.


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    #472
    junder
    Registered Users Posts: 2,706 ✭✭✭junder


    maccored wrote: »
    junder wrote: »
    According to the HET team in the Case of Enniskillen the ira did indeed set out to kill civilians

    The HET team? Isnt that the boys employed by themselves to investigate themselves? The Historical Enquiries Team is laughable in that it is a unit of the PSNI. Very fair Im sure.


    So you wil disregard all findings of the HET team?


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    #473
    Fratton Fred
    Closed Accounts Posts: 26,567 ✭✭✭✭Fratton Fred


    Fiatach wrote: »
    Strategic bombing is a military tactic in Economic warfare.

    Yes I suppose it is, if you bomb economic targets.

    The vast majority, if not all, civilians killed by Irish Terrorists were not killed by any form of economic war though or through the bombing of economic targets.


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    #474
    laoch na mona
    Registered Users Posts: 2,965 ✭✭✭laoch na mona


    do unionists accept nationalists right to have a different political opinion?
    I can accept unionism(non militant style) can ye accept nationalism(non militant style)
    (this is a genuine question so please don't take any offence none is intended )


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    #475
    KeithAFC
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,239 ✭✭✭✭KeithAFC


    laoch na mona wrote: »
    do unionists accept nationalists right to have a different political opinion?
    I can accept unionism(non militant style) can ye accept nationalism(non militant style)
    (this is a genuine question so please don't take any offence none is intended )
    Yes. It is up to Republicanism to accept that some people are Unionists/Loyalists/Ulster nationalists.


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    #476
    laoch na mona
    Registered Users Posts: 2,965 ✭✭✭laoch na mona


    KeithAFC wrote: »
    Yes. It is up to Republicanism to accept that some people are Unionists/Loyalists/Ulster nationalists.

    you had to work in an insult? most nationalists do it was a sinn fein mayor who celebrated the 300th anniversary of the siege of derry or londonderry if you prefer


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    #477
    KeithAFC
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,239 ✭✭✭✭KeithAFC


    laoch na mona wrote: »
    you had to work in an insult? most nationalists do it was a sinn fein mayor who celebrated the 300th anniversary of the siege of derry or londonderry if you prefer
    What is the point you are making? A Sinn Fein mayor only recently insulted a young cadet because he thought it would look bad to fellow Republicans and ended up embarrassing himself.


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    #478
    laoch na mona
    Registered Users Posts: 2,965 ✭✭✭laoch na mona


    im saying give nationalists a chance don't judge us all as one


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    #479
    Fiatach
    Closed Accounts Posts: 55 ✭✭Fiatach


    Fratton Fred wrote: »
    Yes I suppose it is, if you bomb economic targets.

    The vast majority, if not all, civilians killed by Irish Terrorists were not killed by any form of economic war though or through the bombing of economic targets.

    How where they killed then, and what statistics can you show to back this up?


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    #480
    Fratton Fred
    Closed Accounts Posts: 26,567 ✭✭✭✭Fratton Fred


    Fiatach wrote: »
    How where they killed then, and what statistics can you show to back this up?

    They were murdered in terrorist attacks.


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    #481
    laoch na mona
    Registered Users Posts: 2,965 ✭✭✭laoch na mona


    Fratton Fred wrote: »
    They were murdered in terrorist attacks.

    like the dublin and monaghan bombs?


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