Green party Galway meeting

raher1

Does the green party hold meetings in Galway anymore?

Pete_Cavan

kopite4 wrote: »

Does the green party hold meetings in Galway anymore?

Why would they, the carbon footprint of having all their members travel from Dublin 4 to Galway would be very counter-productive.

nanu nanu

What's a Green Party?

raher1

Look it lads it was fianna fail and now progressive democrats who ****ec everything up. A lot laws about planing,civil partnership etc all good came from the greens,we are even connected to Europe electricity thanks to the green. The horse was well bolted before they came along,even Brian lenihan was in the dark before he really got the story,love them d4 bankers .

anymore

Green what ? Last time I passed Dan Boyles ' Constituency office' a few weeks ago the place was empty and very untidy looking with a big pile of Dan Boyle elections posters lying around the place. I would have thought the least Mr Boyle's neighbours in Douglas ST deserved was that the Cork greens would make some effort to leave the premises in a presentable condition ! very bad form from the Greens. Some much for thier concern about the environment, particularly the visual environment.

Liam Byrne

kopite4 wrote: »

Look it lads it was fianna fail and now progressive democrats who ****ec everything up. A lot laws about planing,civil partnership etc all good came from the greens,we are even connected to Europe electricity thanks to the green. The horse was well bolted before they came along,even Brian lenihan was in the dark before he really got the story,love them d4 bankers .

The Greens could have voted against the bank guarantee.

They can't pass the buck anywhere else.

Their choice, their demise.

Batsy

The Green Party?

Nothing but a bunch of swivel-eyed loonies.

later12

Ironically enough, it was the Green party who forced Fianna Fail's hands off the wheel and one would have imagined that the public would at least be thankful for that.

It's absurd to blame them for voting for the bank guarantee - that guarantee is not what has caused our systemic financial ill health, nor our current debt problems.

If you think it is, then you don't understand the 2009-2011 (ongoing) Irish sovereign debt crisis.

Ireland's problems come (1) from a systemic, chronic manipulation of the economy by successive Fianna Fail governments (although that FF part is incidental, FG would likely have behaved similarly) and (2) from European intransigence and inactivity since the emergence of the crisis amongst the peripheral European economies.

The Bank guarantee has damn all to do with it.

Liam Byrne

The Galway crew pulled a plug that the Green's shouldn't have put in the cesspit drain in the first place.

anymore

later10 wrote: »

Ironically enough, it was the Green party who forced Fianna Fail's hands off the wheel and one would have imagined that the public would at least be thankful for that.

It's absurd to blame them for voting for the bank guarantee - that guarantee is not what has caused our systemic financial ill health, nor our current debt problems.

If you think it is, then you don't understand the 2009-2011 (ongoing) Irish sovereign debt crisis.

Ireland's problems come (1) from a systemic, chronic manipulation of the economy by successive Fianna Fail governments (although that FF part is incidental, FG would likely have behaved similarly) and (2) from European intransigence and inactivity since the emergence of the crisis amongst the peripheral European economies.

The Bank guarantee has damn all to do with it.

The people who jump off a urning ship they have helped to set alight, deserve no credit.
It was the Green party which deliberately and for purely selfish financial reasons which kept Ahern in power for so long. Bertie Ahern's final betrayal of the economy was only possible because of the Greens !

Dirk Gently

later10 wrote: »

Ironically enough, it was the Green party who forced Fianna Fail's hands off the wheel and one would have imagined that the public would at least be thankful for that.
.

The writing was on the wall for them when they entered government with that shower, not when they left. People who vote for smaller parties do so because they are opposed to the establishment parties, in particular FF. People who vote for smaller parties don't want them to prop up failed cults like FF.

You're looking at it from an establishment point of view, not a supporter of smaller parties point of view (the people who vote for them / or not vote for them causing their collapse). It was entirely predictable that the greens support would collapse from the moment they agreed to enter government with FF. FF'ers dont get what the problem is when someone supports them to form a government, the (former) supporters of the smaller party recoil in horror though as they realise that any principals their party once stood for go out the window.

later12

anymore wrote: »

The people who jump off a urning ship they have helped to set alight, deserve no credit.

Bertie Ahern's final betrayal of the economy was only possible because of the Greens !

Explain how you think they 'helped to set it alight'?

What harm did the Greens do to the economy post June 2007 that had not already happened?? In terms of government legislation what specifically is that'final betrayal' you refer to?

Dirk Gently wrote: »

FF'ers dont get what the problem is when someone supports them to form a government, the (former) supporters of the smaller party recoil in horror though as they realise that any principals their party once stood for go out the window.

I would take the position that it's generally better to work from inside government than from useless 'principled' verbosity on the opposition benches.

Everyone knows disagreement in coalition is possible - indeed, inevitable. Nobody with a couple of brain cells to rub together seriously considers that smaller parties 'morph' into the bigger party (except perhaps with PDs, who were from that established centre-right gene pool anyway) so the question of the party having altered its position generally shouldn't arise.

I understand that some people like to vote for dissenting voices who they know (or hope) will have no real power, which is fair enough I suppose; I just don't really see the point in doing so.

Anyone I vote for,I vote for in the aspiration that some or all of their policies will be implemented. Shouldn't everyone do so?

Dirk Gently

later10 wrote: »

I would take the position that it's generally better to work from inside government than from useless 'principled' verbosity on the opposition benches.

Everyone knows disagreement in coalition is possible - indeed, inevitable. Nobody with a couple of brain cells to rub together seriously considers that smaller parties 'morph' into the bigger party (except perhaps with PDs, who were from that established centre-right gene pool anyway) so the question of the party having altered its position generally shouldn't arise.

I understand that some people like to vote for dissenting voices who they know (or hope) will have no real power, which is fair enough I suppose; I just don't really see the point in doing so.

Anyone I vote for,I vote for in the aspiration that some or all of their policies will be implemented. Shouldn't everyone do so?

I would wager that had the greens not allowed themselves to be FF's crutch, remained in opposition and maintained their principled stance that come the recent election they would have significantly increased their vote and the amount of seats they had when they decided to collaborate with FF.

Your stance is all fine and dandy just as long as you want to maintain the status quo and yes, most people would feel the same. Thats why we have a 2 and a half party system where nothing changes, why the US has a 2 party system where nothing changes and why the UK has a 2 and a half party system where nothing changes. Small parties don't morph into large parties overnight, especially when they sell out at every opportunity as it erodes their support base who want to vote for a party who represents their views. It happened the PD's, it happened the greens, it happened labour when they went in with FF. Hopeless coalition with a dominant establishment party is a suicide run, only labour from the 3 mentioned were big enough to survive, and it took a long while, and they're still just a crutch even today.

The green party undoubtedly would be better off had they not gone in with FF. Now they don't exist in any relevant way. I would love nothing more than FF and FG to merge and form a government (seriously). I'd take the hit of having them govern for 5 years if it meant a strong opposition could be formed, either existing (reformed labour) or a new opposition. I'd happily vote for someone I knew would be in opposition if I thought it would force change 5 or 10 years down the road.

Of course all this is only relevant within the constraints of our whip system which nullifies parliamentary democracy and relegates elected TD's to bench warmers.

Pride Fighter

Yes, I believe they do still meet. And in my constituency even though they have only 20 members and got less than 1,000 votes they clean the canal every sunday, so fair play to them on that.

Look up this website http://www.greenparty.ie/en

Maybe look up Niall O'Brolochain as well and he should fill you in more.

raher1

I think the green party for all it's failing,which the ff coalition was the most stupid thing to do,I think ego's ran off with themselves,much like labour,Gilmore is a prime example,not bad for a democrat left,ex workers party old ira get to be second in power. I believe the green will reform again,without Ryan.it will be hard cause sinn fein are sucking up protest votes. Fianna fail are making a come back...what does that say about us?

PRAF

Have to laugh at some of the anti-green bile you tend to read on here. There is just no logical reason I can think of why they should be so vilified. The biggest complaint tends to be that they propped up an unpopular FF govt. Have to ask the question though - why blame the greens for that and ignore the 40% of the population who voted for FF?

Ok some of the party and some of their policies were a bit zany. However, they did manage to get some of their policies through
- reform of planning system to enforce better building standards and better urban and rural planning (stop building on flood plains, stop over zoning of the countryside, better quality housing / apartments etc)
- reform of motor tax system (make it cheaper to drive more eco friendly cars, encourage people to drive more fuel efficient and cheaper cars to run etc.)
- further protection for Irish wildlife (Golden eagles etc.)
- encourage cycling

later12

I think civil partnerships was one of their most important contributions; marriage inequality being one of the last major equality aberrations in Irish society.

I'm not a traditional Green Party supporter because I actually don't think they've got a lot of things right on the environment - or where are they are correct, they often have only had chance be their fortune. Their membership often, sadly, base their support for environmentalism on emotion over factual evidence. Environmentalist arguments deserve more than emotional press releases/ tweets from the likes of Dan Boyle and Eamon Ryan.

Nevertheless, I would vote green in future because the party showed themselves to be pragmatic in coalition, to be far more responsible than one might have expected under the circumstances, and because they demonstrated a progressive political agenda beyond idealistic environmentalism which surprised many of us who had not previously been familiar with some of their non-environmental positions.

In fact, I suspect the green party themselves had not been familiar with a lot of their positions beyond the environmental issue, but i think their term in government may have helped to concentrate their minds and I hope they form part of the next coalition.

They were a party that took a responsible and unpopular decisions on the economy, but in retrospect were usually the correct decisions. They dragged a sometimes reluctant Fianna Fail membership into the 21st century on a small number of very important issues.

We need more of their kind, not less.

Dirk Gently wrote: »

I would wager that had the greens not allowed themselves to be FF's crutch, remained in opposition and maintained their principled stance that come the recent election they would have significantly increased their vote and the amount of seats they had when they decided to collaborate with FF.

That's unknowable, and also un-knowable in 2007 was that the Government would fall halfway through its term.

A party cannot just sit on its hands interminably in the knowledge that if it does, there is a chance that it might have 20 deputies in 20 years time. That's not reasonable.

It's hard to say for certain whether or not the Greens will return to Leinster House. But if they do not, that will have been more to do with the extraordinary economic events of Winter 2010 and its bitter effects on Irish people than simply having joined a coalition government.

Hopeless coalition with a dominant establishment party is a suicide run, only labour from the 3 mentioned were big enough to survive, and it took a long while, and they're still just a crutch even today.

Have you never considered that the failure of the labour party and the PDs alike, following on from their respective coalitions, was that (1) most Irish people don't vote for these small parties (i.e. Irish people largely disagree with them) and (2) when these unpopular, small parties are allowed to rule over entire ministries, the public are left even more antagonistic toward these minor, unpopular parties?

The size of the Labour party today is not a relic of their ill-fated coalition with Fianna Fail,nor has it been so for over a decade. The main reason why the Labour party remain so small is the same reason they have always been a small party since their first arrival into Irish politics - Irish society just isn't red enough. And by all accounts, it isn't very green either.

PRAF

Hopefully the Green party will be infiltrated with some more common sense people. Their biggest downfall is probably that they have a lot of loonies in the party who are solely focussed on particular issues such as bloodsports, animal welfare, organic cucumbers etc.

Look at the core issues they are (or should be) addressing - sustainability, efficient use of national resources, promoting a better environment, justice and equality etc. Not many people are against these issues.

However, they ended up alienating a lot of would be voters when they were seen to be foisting particular solutions rather than taking a practical stance - e.g. Gormley backing MBT (unproven but perhaps better sometime in the future) over incineration (a good solution, now).

Unfortunately they will only ever be a niche party. Some people just cannot or will not contemplate changing their lifestyle to a more sustainable one. Hence we have
- advocates of motorways in areas of extreme environmental sensitivity
- advocates of one off housing despite their effects on commuting times, pollution of groundwater etc.
- advocates of cutting and burning turf, one of the most inefficient fuels there is
- advocates of big, gas guzzling cars despite the waste of resources
etc

bijapos

The biggest problem with the Green Party is that they didn't come into power in 1997 instead of 2007, maybe then we might have had some form of decent planning in the boom instead of estates with no facilities or services.

It was their bad luck to come into power when the bubble that they always spoke out against was about to burst, but it was a democratic decision of their members so they will have to live with it. They will also have to live with the fallout of their decisions in relation to the banks for some time but as we have seen it is doubtful that any other coalition group would have done any differently.

I've no idea what the future holds for them, I definitely know that we need an environmental agenda which is something neither FG, FF or Lab provide. In many ways they are 20 or 30 years ahead of other parties, they have policies that tend to take a generation to bear fruit but as we have seen most people vote with the party that promises most for their pockets after that particular GE.

Ironically enough I got a ticket recently for this gig, if they could organise a government the way they organise a gig, we might be a lot better off.

gmurphy70

The Greens wanted Power,They wanted to be in Government and they would of gotten into bed with anyone so they were there. They sat back and watched while Fianna Fail allowed the country sink to its knee's.The Greens had ample opportunities to make a stand when this was all bubbling but they choose not to. They spent their time in the Dail while the economy was in freefall debating Stag Hunting. People are not stupid and hopefully we wont hear from them again..

anymore

PRAF wrote: »

Have to laugh at some of the anti-green bile you tend to read on here. There is just no logical reason I can think of why they should be so vilified. The biggest complaint tends to be that they propped up an unpopular FF govt. Have to ask the question though - why blame the greens for that and ignore the 40% of the population who voted for FF?

Ok some of the party and some of their policies were a bit zany. However, they did manage to get some of their policies through
- reform of planning system to enforce better building standards and better urban and rural planning (stop building on flood plains, stop over zoning of the countryside, better quality housing / apartments etc)
- reform of motor tax system (make it cheaper to drive more eco friendly cars, encourage people to drive more fuel efficient and cheaper cars to run etc.)
- further protection for Irish wildlife (Golden eagles etc.)
- encourage cycling

The subsidy for new cars was one of the more HYPOCRITICAL of the phoney green policies !! 50 % or more of global warming gases are created in the manufacture of cars so the actual running of the cars is not very relevant compared to the older cars. It was a measure aimed squaerly at well heeled middle class voters - It was nothing more than a BRIBE, i.e just political corruption - It was an anti jobs measure which has helped to close yet more small garages who depended for a lot of thier income on repairs ! Car not working properly ? Why waste money getting it repaired ? Buy a new one with your tax payer paid for subsidy ! Welcome to the age of disposable cars ?
And lets not forget who stood firmly behind all the FF health and education cut backs whilst firmly backing the pouring of taxpayers money down the ARTS AND FARTS black hole. ?

PRAF

gmurphy70 wrote: »

The Greens wanted Power,They wanted to be in Government and they would of gotten into bed with anyone so they were there. They sat back and watched while Fianna Fail allowed the country sink to its knee's.The Greens had ample opportunities to make a stand when this was all bubbling but they choose not to. They spent their time in the Dail while the economy was in freefall debating Stag Hunting. People are not stupid and hopefully we wont hear from them again..

So Gormley, Ryan, Sargeant & co were just power hungry sociopaths, who'd sell their grannies to get into their expensive govt mercs, their big govt salaries etc. I just don't buy that.

Why then didn't they join FF? Why did they cycle to work? Why do they look like they shop at Dunnes Stores rather than Brown Thomas. It just doesn't make sense.

On your two points:
- Yes, they made a political decision to try to implement their green policies after years in opposition. The price to be paid was that they'd be coalition partners with FF. Ultimately they paid a high price for that decision. However, why blame them for FF? Should you not blame the 40% of voters who voted for FF and kept them in power for most of the last 25 years?
- the stag hunting bill was a routine piece of legislation. It was hijacked by rival politicians as a way of trying to being down the govt. The Greens had no intention of spending any more than was necessary to get it through. Claiming that they were focussed on stag hunting and not looking at the economy is nonsensical. They didn't even control any economic ministeries. We have a range of govt departments in Ireland. Not all of them are focussed on the economy all of the time. If they were, why would we bother having a dept of justice, education, environment, energy etc.

PRAF

anymore wrote: »

The subsidy for new cars was one of the more HYPOCRITICAL of the phoney green policies !! 50 % or more of global warming gases are created in the manufacture of cars so the actual running of the cars is not very relevant compared to the older cars. It was a measure aimed squaerly at well heeled middle class voters - It was nothing more than a BRIBE, i.e just political corruption - It was an anti jobs measure which has helped to close yet more small garages who depended for a lot of thier income on repairs ! Car not working properly ? Why waste money getting it repaired ? Buy a new one with your tax payer paid for subsidy ! Welcome to the age of disposable cars ?
And lets not forget who stood firmly behind all the FF health and education cut backs whilst firmly backing the pouring of taxpayers money down the ARTS AND FARTS black hole. ?

There is no manufacturing of cars in Ireland. The Greens cannot influence who builds new cars or where that happens. Blaming them for promoting new car ownership does not stand up to scrutiny. FF wanted a car scrappage scheme to 'save the motor industry in Ireland'. Once a car is made, it is a sunk cost. You can do nothing about it to 'unamke it'. All the Greens tried to do was make a simple administrative change that would mean the ordinary punter was more likely to purchase a more efficient car if and when they decided to buy one. A practical, innovative and pragmatic move. What is wrong with that?

Just more anti-Green bile which speaks more of a deep seated suspicion of the green movement than it does of any sort of objective, rational analysis of what they did or didn't do while in govt.

anymore

PRAF wrote: »

There is no manufacturing of cars in Ireland. The Greens cannot influence who builds new cars or where that happens. Blaming them for promoting new car ownership does not stand up to scrutiny. FF wanted a car scrappage scheme to 'save the motor industry in Ireland'. Once a car is made, it is a sunk cost. You can do nothing about it to 'unamke it'. All the Greens tried to do was make a simple administrative change that would mean the ordinary punter was more likely to purchase a more efficient car if and when they decided to buy one. A practical, innovative and pragmatic move. What is wrong with that?

Just more anti-Green bile which speaks more of a deep seated suspicion of the green movement than it does of any sort of objective, rational analysis of what they did or didn't do while in govt.

Yes I know cars are not manufactured here - a point so blindingly obivous that I didnt even think it worth mentioning. There was no economic benefit and precious little environmental either, so this measure was jsut another vote getting scam indulged in by Greens /FF.
What is the relevance of comments about " once a car is made ..." Cars are made to satisfy demand. This measure served to create new demand tht would not be part of the ordinary cycle. this 'green' measure was created to generate business for the motor industry which is one of the problems !
Talk about ' green bile' as much as you like, but many reagrd the green party as being a political party and not part of the envoronmental movement. The greens went to a lot of trouble to push out some of the more determined environmentlists - rmember the funny comments about the sandal wearing eccentrics ?

PRAF

anymore wrote: »

Yes I know cars are not manufactured here - a point so blindingly obivous that I didnt even think it worth mentioning. There was no economic benefit and precious little environmental either, so this measure was jsut another vote getting scam indulged in by Greens /FF.
What is the relevance of comments about " once a car is made ..." Cars are made to satisfy demand. This measure served to create new demand tht would not be part of the ordinary cycle. this 'green' measure was created to generate business for the motor industry which is one of the problems !
Talk about ' green bile' as much as you like, but many reagrd the green party as being a political party and not part of the envoronmental movement. The greens went to a lot of trouble to push out some of the more determined environmentlists - rmember the funny comments about the sandal wearing eccentrics ?

Ok, so we've established that the Greens are not to blame for the cars being made.

We've also established that it was FF who asked for the scrappage scheme which increased demand for new cars. As I recall at the time, the Greens were against this but caved in because guess what, FF has 40% of the vote and the Greens had about 2%.

We've also established that the Greens made an administrative change that ensured if and when you wanted a new car, you'd be more likely to buy a 'green' one. How in hell did that serve to create new demand?

anymore

PRAF wrote: »

Ok, so we've established that the Greens are not to blame for the cars being made.

We've also established that it was FF who asked for the scrappage scheme which increased demand for new cars. As I recall at the time, the Greens were against this but caved in because guess what, FF has 40% of the vote and the Greens had about 2%.

We've also established that the Greens made an administrative change that ensured if and when you wanted a new car, you'd be more likely to buy a 'green' one. How in hell did that serve to create new demand?

"We", if it includes me, havent established any of these things. This is one of the annoying things about the greens; their presumtion to speak for ' us'. Well as pointed point, the numbers who support them is so miniscule as to be less than the margin of error in polls/elections. take away the numbers who accidentally voted for them and they are almost extinct.
Greens = FF =Greens = Bertie's little troopers.
The Nazis had the brown shirts, Bertie had the greens !
My own nearest green, Dan Boyle showed not the remotest interest in the visual environment in Cork. His main interst appeared to be the arts sector in which, surprise, surprise, his daughter and wive, were I beleive active in.

gmurphy70

- reform of planning system to enforce better building standards and better urban and rural planning (stop building on flood plains, stop over zoning of the countryside, better quality housing / apartments etc)
- reform of motor tax system (make it cheaper to drive more eco friendly cars, encourage people to drive more fuel efficient and cheaper cars to run etc.)
- further protection for Irish wildlife (Golden eagles etc.)
- encourage cycling

This is not anti Green Bile,
Have a look at what you posted above and the Greens didnt realise that
People are not able to keep their homes and feed their Children,Hospitals are in disarray,Schools are overcrowded and no Jobs.
The public spoke at the last election,
The Greens biggest downfall is they concentrated on issues that were of no relevance to the public and they allowed FF to set the country back years.

The country has more pressing issues than motor tax,planning laws,wildlife and cycling.

The Greens were in Government with FF,They had the power to stand up to FF,They didnt and the country voted.......

Arfan

They had the power to stand up to FF

No they didn't. They had the power to speak their minds on issues at the cabinet table and propose policies related to the ministries in which they were placed.

When you see a bird riding an elephant do you admire how well it steers?

PRAF

gmurphy70 wrote: »

- reform of planning system to enforce better building standards and better urban and rural planning (stop building on flood plains, stop over zoning of the countryside, better quality housing / apartments etc)
- reform of motor tax system (make it cheaper to drive more eco friendly cars, encourage people to drive more fuel efficient and cheaper cars to run etc.)
- further protection for Irish wildlife (Golden eagles etc.)
- encourage cycling

This is not anti Green Bile,
Have a look at what you posted above and the Greens didnt realise that
People are not able to keep their homes and feed their Children,Hospitals are in disarray,Schools are overcrowded and no Jobs.
The public spoke at the last election,
The Greens biggest downfall is they concentrated on issues that were of no relevance to the public and they allowed FF to set the country back years.

The country has more pressing issues than motor tax,planning laws,wildlife and cycling.

The Greens were in Government with FF,They had the power to stand up to FF,They didnt and the country voted.......

FF have been in government for 19 of the 27 times we've had general elections. They consistently polled over 40% during their existence. They bought most of those votes with their particular style of parish pump politics. They were particularly good at playing the role of the local 'fixer' and 'stroke merchant' who you could go to in order to get around the 'system'. This kind of politics is utterly corrupt and devoid of integrity.

I just cannot understand how you can blame the Greens for the atrocities that FF have inflicted on the nation. FF have continued to put the holding of power ahead of any other motive (remember Bertie - 'our ethics are to win power and to stay in bloody power').

The Greens, god bless their little eco friendly socks, are guilty of joining up with FF in order to get some of their policy agenda implemented. I agree that it was a mistake but c'mon, lets keep some perspective here.

The Greens are not the bogeymen you are looking for to take the blame for everything that FF did. How about you focus your anger on FF? What about your friends and relatives who voted for FF?

raher1

Kinda sad the the major greens have drifted off. They would have won seats if they got some transfers like previous elections. I agree they need more practical minded people,people live more for today than the future. Green policy is a job maker if done properly,jaysus we produce enough wind to power million wind turbines.

View

gmurphy70 wrote: »

The country has more pressing issues than motor tax,planning laws,wildlife and cycling.

Well, that's the excuse, isn't it? We had more "pressing issues" in the boom years and more pressing ones in the bust years.

Of course, if we'd paid a bit more attention to planning laws, we might have a lot less examples of bad planning now.

Out of interest, how much has your motor tax come down since the change of government?

gmurphy70 wrote: »

The Greens were in Government with FF,They had the power to stand up to FF,They didnt and the country voted.......

The only powers a minority party in a coalition are: a) to seek to persuade the majority party about particular policies at Cabinet level, or b) to pull out of government and cause an early election.

Since they stayed in government, they can be faulted for not pulling out of government but - as we have seen since the change of government - it doesn't make a huge difference to what options we face. The state's budget math may not be the be all and end all of government choices but it comes close.

anymore

PRAF wrote: »

FF have been in government for 19 of the 27 times we've had general elections. They consistently polled over 40% during their existence. They bought most of those votes with their particular style of parish pump politics. They were particularly good at playing the role of the local 'fixer' and 'stroke merchant' who you could go to in order to get around the 'system'. This kind of politics is utterly corrupt and devoid of integrity.

I just cannot understand how you can blame the Greens for the atrocities that FF have inflicted on the nation. FF have continued to put the holding of power ahead of any other motive (remember Bertie - 'our ethics are to win power and to stay in bloody power').

The Greens, god bless their little eco friendly socks, are guilty of joining up with FF in order to get some of their policy agenda implemented. I agree that it was a mistake but c'mon, lets keep some perspective here.

The Greens are not the bogeymen you are looking for to take the blame for everything that FF did. How about you focus your anger on FF? What about your friends and relatives who voted for FF?

Could we pretend for a moment we live in the grown up world ?

You are trying to project a world where it was all FF bad and all green good. Wrong, wrong, wrong !
FF have in thier time done good and some very good , e.g martin's smoking ban was a remarkable pice of work, both courageous and something that was and continues to be admired and repeated. I have personally listened to foreigners praising it both whilst i was here in Ireland and abroad. Doesnt mean I voted for martin but it does mean i am going to object to this puerile nonsense that all the bad was FF and all the good was green.
The Greens enabled FF. Worse they hypocritically dropped thier moral objections to FF as soon as they got into power. Ahern;s reign of destruction was only possible because of the green's hypocrisy : We are nobody's conscience " - sound familiar ?. They gave Ahern the moral authority and permission to remain on as taoiseach after th debacle of his mahon testimony. They could have forced him out and allowed FF to elect a new leader and we possibly could have seen a real leadership election. Instead they betrayed every principle they had.
The PDs were true to themselves for a long period, the Greens capitulated immediately. They deserve to be forgotten.

PRAF

anymore wrote: »

Could we pretend for a moment we live in the grown up world ?

You are trying to project a world where it was all FF bad and all green good. Wrong, wrong, wrong !
FF have in thier time done good and some very good , e.g martin's smoking ban was a remarkable pice of work, both courageous and something that was and continues to be admired and repeated. I have personally listened to foreigners praising it both whilst i was here in Ireland and abroad. Doesnt mean I voted for martin but it does mean i am going to object to this puerile nonsense that all the bad was FF and all the good was green.
The Greens enabled FF. Worse they hypocritically dropped thier moral objections to FF as soon as they got into power. Ahern;s reign of destruction was only possible because of the green's hypocrisy : We are nobody's conscience " - sound familiar ?. They gave Ahern the moral authority and permission to remain on as taoiseach after th debacle of his mahon testimony. They could have forced him out and allowed FF to elect a new leader and we possibly could have seen a real leadership election. Instead they betrayed every principle they had.
The PDs were true to themselves for a long period, the Greens capitulated immediately. They deserve to be forgotten.

Out of curiosity, is it just the Irish Green party and their record in govt that you have a problem with or is it with the whole 'green' movement in general?
To my mind, the Irish Greens were / are a very imperfect bunch. However, they were / are the only political party advancing the 'green' agenda to my mind. IMO they were unlucky and in some ways unfairly scapegoated for all of the wrongs that occurred on FF's reign of terror.

For Forks Sake

PRAF wrote: »

Why did they cycle to work?

Window dressing. The ministerial Prius was following along at all times, as I believe is a requirement put in place by AGS.

Arfan

anymore wrote: »

Could we pretend for a moment we live in the grown up world ?

You are trying to project a world where it was all FF bad and all green good. Wrong, wrong, wrong !
FF have in thier time done good and some very good , e.g martin's smoking ban was a remarkable pice of work, both courageous and something that was and continues to be admired and repeated. I have personally listened to foreigners praising it both whilst i was here in Ireland and abroad. Doesnt mean I voted for martin but it does mean i am going to object to this puerile nonsense that all the bad was FF and all the good was green.
The Greens enabled FF. Worse they hypocritically dropped thier moral objections to FF as soon as they got into power. Ahern;s reign of destruction was only possible because of the green's hypocrisy : We are nobody's conscience " - sound familiar ?. They gave Ahern the moral authority and permission to remain on as taoiseach after th debacle of his mahon testimony. They could have forced him out and allowed FF to elect a new leader and we possibly could have seen a real leadership election. Instead they betrayed every principle they had.
The PDs were true to themselves for a long period, the Greens capitulated immediately. They deserve to be forgotten.

You had a good argument going there and then your needle got stuck on the same point it did last time. I'm starting to think it's not just the record is broken.

anymore

Arfan wrote: »

You had a good argument going there and then your needle got stuck on the same point it did last time. I'm starting to think it's not just the record is broken.[/QU

Anyone who is worried about ' Martian Rights' has probably quite enough on his plate, so dont worry about me !
Quote " I am Arfan and I support Martian rights. "

anymore

For Forks Sake wrote: »

Window dressing. The ministerial Prius was following along at all times, as I believe is a requirement put in place by AGS.

The briefcase in the ministerial car, the nutcase on the bike !

anymore

PRAF wrote: »

Out of curiosity, is it just the Irish Green party and their record in govt that you have a problem with or is it with the whole 'green' movement in general?
To my mind, the Irish Greens were / are a very imperfect bunch. However, they were / are the only political party advancing the 'green' agenda to my mind. IMO they were unlucky and in some ways unfairly scapegoated for all of the wrongs that occurred on FF's reign of terror.

Tell me , why were so many environmentalists pushed out of the Green Party ? You know the ones the ' professional Greens used to make funny jokes about, the ' sandal wearers'.
At one point it seemed the Greens split into the 'Sandal wearers and the ' Armani wearers''.

bijapos

For Forks Sake wrote: »

Window dressing. The ministerial Prius was following along at all times, as I believe is a requirement put in place by AGS.

There are certain cabinet/state papers that must be carried in the presence of AGS, they cannot be carried by a private person in a private car. Thats the regulation whether we like it or not.

When he was minister I saw Ryan cycling to work on a number of occasions with no Ministerial car following him, I've also seen him in the car a few times and my gf saw him on the Luas often enough too when he was a Minister. Its a ridiculous discussion to be honest.

anymore

bijapos wrote: »

There are certain cabinet/state papers that must be carried in the presence of AGS, they cannot be carried by a private person in a private car. Thats the regulation whether we like it or not.

When he was minister I saw Ryan cycling to work on a number of occasions with no Ministerial car following him, I've also seen him in the car a few times and my gf saw him on the Luas often enough too when he was a Minister. Its a ridiculous discussion to be honest.

You may feel this is a ridiculous discussion, but it is about part of the narrative that has brought us to being bankrupt as a country. When the Greens talk about ' sustainability, it is hypocrisy - they were part of the Government that made us as a country unsustainable. Nothing we say here could be as ridiculous as absurd or as self -seeking as the action of the greens and their equal partners FF.

Greens = FF= Greens = FF=Greens = FF = Greens = FF = Greens......

bijapos

I don't see how the discussion as to how the Greens travelled to work, be it by bike or by car has had any major relevance to the economic problems of the country. What the Greens did in Dail Eireann is one thing, how they got themselves and their papers there is not worth talking about imo but fire away all you want.

anymore

bijapos wrote: »

I don't see how the discussion as to how the Greens travelled to work, be it by bike or by car has had any major relevance to the economic problems of the country. What the Greens did in Dail Eireann is one thing, how they got themselves and their papers there is not worth talking about imo but fire away all you want.

The small things often give us a clue as to how the big things occur. For example, to understand how former Green Chris O Leary came very close to being elected as a TD for the Sinn fein Party, at the last election, whilst his colleague and Party chairman, Dan Boyle was humilitated at the election, it helps to know that chris O Leary put up one or two posters protesting at education cuts in the window of the Green party office in Douglas St Cork. these were removed by Boyle and shortly after O Leary was no longer using the office - the Greens office in Cork was apparently ' Dan Boyle's Constituency Office and not the Green Party office in Cork. It was rather controversial at the time and there were letters to local papers on Boyle's behalf and the matter was covered extensovely on some sites like P.Ie if I remember rightly.

Arfan

anymore wrote: »

Arfan wrote: »

You had a good argument going there and then your needle got stuck on the same point it did last time. I'm starting to think it's not just the record is broken.

Anyone who is worried about ' Martian Rights' has probably quite enough on his plate, so dont worry about me !
Quote " I am Arfan and I support Martian rights. "

Touché sir. I shall dispense with metaphor. Do not repeat arguments as if restating them differently somehow defends them from reasonable debate. Do not treat character attacks as arguments. And because three is a good number do not dredge up unrelated quotes without so much as providing a source as backup. I don't see how martians have any bearing on the performance of the Greens' in government. Unless you think otherwise?

Completely unrelated to the topic: I believe it too early to tell the full extent of the fallout of the FF-Green government. At the very least another general election and a few years of the policies they implemented are needed before we can fully state whether it was a case of the blind leading the blind.

anymore

Arfan wrote: »

Touché sir. I shall dispense with metaphor. Do not repeat arguments as if restating them differently somehow defends them from reasonable debate. Do not treat character attacks as arguments. And because three is a good number do not dredge up unrelated quotes without so much as providing a source as backup. I don't see how martians have any bearing on the performance of the Greens' in government. Unless you think otherwise?

Completed unrelated to the topic: I believe it too early to tell the full extent of the fallout of the FF-Green government. At the very least another general election and a few years of the policies they implemented are needed before we can fully state whether it was a case of the blind leading the blind.

I should advise i generally tend to do the very things that strangers tell e not to do - it is a character flaw, but i have found it a particularly good trait when dealing with GP:) supporters !
As regards it being too early to tell - ask the EU, IMF and any other sane body on this planet, particularly those to whom we have to go on bended knees to beg for money.
I had not really noticed that much reasonable debate from you. As for my providing sources, i do expect people posting on Politicis to have a certain minimum knowledge about the topics they are posting on.
What are you not clear on specifically that requires refs ?

Arfan

anymore wrote: »

I should advise i generally tend to do the very things that strangers tell e not to do - it is a character flaw, but i have found it a particularly good trait when dealing with GP:) supporters !
As regards it being too early to tell - ask the EU, IMF and any other sane body on this planet, particularly those to whom we have to go on bended knees to beg for money.
I had not really noticed that much reasonable debate from you. As for my providing sources, i do expect people posting on Politicis to have a certain minimum knowledge about the topics they are posting on.
What are you not clear on specifically that requires refs ?

You would not debate if you were uninterested in what other people have to say. I certainly am not dismissing you just because you're a GP supporter. It wouldn't matter to me if you were a turkey who voted for Christmas. The argument precedes the speaker here.

You quoted me without providing a source. A glib reference to a glib post perhaps but others need to know it exists before they can decide it true.

Your flair for the dramatic is heartening but of little relation to the topic. As I said before the green party had little say in most government policy. They were at best a side-show as Fianna Fail frequently proved by sidelining them come announcements. One might even call them yes-men, until of course they said no.

anymore

Arfan wrote: »

You would not debate if you were uninterested in what other people have to say. I certainly am not dismissing you just because you're a GP supporter. It wouldn't matter to me if you were a turkey who voted for Christmas. The argument precedes the speaker here.

You quoted me without providing a source. A glib reference to a glib post perhaps but others need to know it exists before they can decide it true.

Your flair for the dramatic is heartening but of little relation to the topic. As I said before the green party had little say in most government policy. They were at best a side-show as Fianna Fail frequently proved by sidelining them come announcements. One might even call them yes-men, until of course they said no.

Still in school ?

raher1

I have to say one thing,isn't micheal Martin looking very smug all the time,has no shame,another useless ff dynasty family like Cowen.

anymore

kopite4 wrote: »

It said it all ff,labour and sinn fein all felt too important or in case got dry couldn't stick around to hear the real people's TD talk about today's Ireland. The greens will again cause people will see sinn fein as b/s and labour as major b/s.

Could i suggest you edit the post as it doesnt make a lot of sense as it stands ?

View

bijapos wrote: »

There are certain cabinet/state papers that must be carried in the presence of AGS, they cannot be carried by a private person in a private car. Thats the regulation whether we like it or not.

Out of curiousity, does the regulation require the cabinet/state papers to be carried in a car?

It presumably wouldn't have bankrupted the state to buy a couple of those Dutch style cargo bikes which are routinely used to carry loads around - or do regulations prevent civil servants and/or members of the gardai cycling in the course of their work duties?

gmurphy70

The problem I have with the Greens is that they sat idly by while FF ruined the country. It is very well documented of FF mishandling and failings of our Country. Green Party sat in government while this was happening, one scandal after another and they failed to act until their were backed into a corner. They backed and stood by FF until it was too late. The country voted ,why were the Greens wiped out???????

GalwayAndrew

kopite4 wrote: »

Does the green party hold meetings in Galway anymore?

To answer your question: yes, and email galwaygreenparty@gmail.com if you're interested in attending. There are still lots of local Green issues to be campaigned on, and lots of national and international issues to discuss at local level.

The same debate about whether the Greens were right to go into Government continues. Personally I think it was the right thing to do, and they did some good, but they made mistakes and in a way the writing was on the wall for them.