Dog attacked my child - heartbroken

Penname

Bit of background - our dog is a 2 yr old neutered terrier cross. We got him from a shelter in May where they told us he was suitable for a home with young children. He's a brilliant dog in most other ways. We've put a lot of work into him, training, building his confidence, getting him used to our cats etc. He has snapped at our younger child in the past but that was because she took his food bowl away while he was eating, so we nipped that in the bud by using the technique where you give him his food and take it away a couple of times.

So last night, he was sitting at my feet when my kid went over, put her head down to him (which she does all the time - they are very affectionate with him) and he went for her, biting several times by the time I was able to pull him off her. Luckily she turned her face away from him so he only got the back of her head and didn't break skin, but still - she was lucky. It was definitely not a warning - it was vicious - very distressing.

We are devastated about it. I'm not sure we can rehome a dog that bites. Euthansia is a LAST resort but we absolutely cannot have a dog with these tendencies around our children, never mind the other children that often visit our home. I have contacted a trainer so am waiting for her to get back to me. Also, I am going to ring the vet this morning for advice.

I'm not really sure what advice I'm looking for..... Just needed to write it down.

MidnightQueen

Aww i'm so sorry to hear! That is very strange that he went for her, without her doing anything to him. Could be any little thing that could upset them, always to do with their past and ways people approach them. Do you know what your little terrier is crossed with?

Penname

KittyKat wrote: »

Aww i'm so sorry to hear! That is very strange that he went for her, without her doing anything to him. Could be any little thing that could upset them, always to do with their past and ways people approach them. Do you know what your little terrier is crossed with?

They said he was a bichon cross but I don't see anything bichon about him. I'd say he's more cairn/westie maybe.

I thought maybe he might be sick or off form but he was in grand form all day, eating etc.

Dd did nothing out of the ordinary, didn't hurt him, always gentle etc.

I'd like to think it was a once off but how can I take that risk of it happening again

varadero

There is only 1 logical thing to do, or you will live to regret it, i wouldnt take the chance .

MidnightQueen

Aww i feel your pain. I live with a guy who took in two terriers from a puppy rescue. They are both male. Hes had one for five years westie cross and the other with the last two years a yorkshire cross (he thinks). He trained and nursed them back to full health. The westie seems very placid but sceptical of new people, he adapted to me after a few days though, i dont have any trouble with him.
The yorkshire is still a bit touchy from time to time. He growls a lot and you would think he would go for you but he went through obedience training to get rid of that. My friend said they both were a lot worse and that all they need is time, care and love to get it out of their system, he gradually sees their anger fading over time. Hope this little story helps.

In your situation with kids around, i would agree with Varadero above, thats my opinion though.

alie

varadero wrote: »

There is only 1 logical thing to do, or you will live to regret it, i wouldnt take the chance .

I agree, the very fact you had to pull the dog off your precious child is enough

Penname

alie wrote: »

varadero wrote: »

There is only 1 logical thing to do, or you will live to regret it, i wouldnt take the chance .

I agree, the very fact you had to pull the dog off your precious child is enough

I know. It's really a no brainer but it's so hard. Watching him running around the garden wagging his tail - heart is broken.

rsole1

Treat him like a lesser member of the pack, he's looking to become top dog. He needs discipline and to be put in his place. Put him outside and leave him there, feed him and exercise him. That's his new role -watch dog.

westies4ever

I feel for you OP - not sure which rescue you got your dog from - the rescue i got my westie from, will not place them in a home with children under 10 - they can be quick to get annoyed.

User Friendly

rsole1 wrote: »

Treat him like a lesser member of the pack, he's looking to become top dog. He needs discipline and to be put in his place. Put him outside and leave him there, feed him and exercise him. That's his new role -watch dog.

Wood you still keep a dog who attacked your children? i couldnt

abouttobebanned

Put the Dog in the back garden!!! Come on people, the amount of stories I'm reading on this bloody forum about people that are heartbroken cause their dog attacked their child in the house. What do you expect? Dogs are territorial animals, and I don't care how much grief I get for this - THEY BELONG OUTSIDE!!!!

mymo

Call the rescue and ask what they think, they may suggest rehoming somewhere with no small children.
Get him checked by the vet to ensure he isn't sick or in pain, just so you can rule that out.
Its hard I know, we took in a small dog years ago, but he bit my toddler out of the blue one day (I had been so careful, kept them always in sight, she new how to behave as was bought up with pets, but he just walked up to us one day and growled and bit her hand) and I had to rehome him, its just not worth the risk, we had no idea what life he had before coming to us.
He went to an older couple with no kids, and was great with them.

mymo

abouttobebanned wrote: »

Put the Dog in the back garden!!! Come on people, the amount of stories I'm reading on this bloody forum about people that are heartbroken cause their dog attacked their child in the house. What do you expect? Dogs are territorial animals, and I don't care how much grief I get for this - THEY BELONG OUTSIDE!!!!

I have had dogs all my life as have my family, all have been in the house, all from pups (except the one in my story above) and never had a bite happen.
I have been bitten twice, by friends dogs, both dogs were outside dogs, how do you explain that?

Bullseye1

Sorry to hear that your child was attacked. It sounds like the dog maybe jealous of the child approaching you. Did you have children before getting he dog?

If your not happy to keep the dog then I would advise to try and rehome. I understand your concerns about the dog possibly bitting someone else, but really it is the responsibility of the person who rescues him. The dog might never bite again. So don't get hung up on what might happen. I would fully support your idea of giving the dog up though as it will be difficult for you to ever trust him around your kids again.

Small dogs make great companions for older people who have no kids so there are options.

Best of luck with whatever decision you make.

westies4ever

i agree with bullsye1 and mymo - go back to the rescue and get them to rehome the dog for you - reputable rescues will stand over one of their dogs for life and they should be happy to help.

Penname

mymo wrote: »

Call the rescue and ask what they think, they may suggest rehoming somewhere with no small children.
Get him checked by the vet to ensure he isn't sick or in pain, just so you can rule that out.
Its hard I know, we took in a small dog years ago, but he bit my toddler out of the blue one day (I had been so careful, kept them always in sight, she new how to behave as was bought up with pets, but he just walked up to us one day and growled and bit her hand) and I had to rehome him, its just not worth the risk, we had no idea what life he had before coming to us.
He went to an older couple with no kids, and was great with them.

This is what we're hoping to do. He'd be well suited for a home with no kids. Just spoke to vet there who suggested contacting the shelter too. Only thing is, they rarely answer phone. Gonna try and hope for the best.

westies4ever

Penname wrote: »

This is what we're hoping to do. He'd be well suited for a home with no kids. Just spoke to vet there who suggested contacting the shelter too. Only thing is, they rarely answer phone. Gonna try and hope for the best.

best of luck OP - are they on facebook? many of them are - you could send them a pm as well.

Garzorico

I cannot believe there are people even contemplating you keeping the dog. I have 2 dogs and 2 small kids in the house and if either dog were to attack one of the kids it would be end game for the dog immediately. Poster who suggested they are trying to get up the 'pack' pecking order is spot on, they are doing just that and will not change their behaviour. If the child hurt the dog I daresay you'd get over it in a flash and wouldn't feel the need to seek opinion get it off your chest. Get rid of the dog, no question.

abouttobebanned

mymo wrote: »

I have had dogs all my life as have my family, all have been in the house, all from pups (except the one in my story above) and never had a bite happen.
I have been bitten twice, by friends dogs, both dogs were outside dogs, how do you explain that?

:rolleyes:

First off, I have no idea who your friends are or what kind of dogs you have so your lame attempt to beat my argument with "experience" is somewhat pointless.

In any other forum but this, people would accept that animals are always unpredictable. I mean how many times have you read about people being "shocked" that their precious pet turned on their child?

I have a springer spaniel, and he's the gentlest creature you could meet, but he doesn't share a house with my 7 month old daughter. He has a massive kennel and a massive run in the back garden, and he absolutely loves it. (2 of the warmest blankets you could imagine in the kennel).

kids and animals sharing living space is just a recipe for disaster.

Cue the endless supply of "Oh buy MY dog would never do such a thing" yeah right...until he does it.

abouttobebanned

For the OP...Please don't put down the dog. Try and rehome it if you can.

rsole1

abouttobebanned wrote: »

Put the Dog in the back garden!!! Come on people, the amount of stories I'm reading on this bloody forum about people that are heartbroken cause their dog attacked their child in the house. What do you expect? Dogs are territorial animals, and I don't care how much grief I get for this - THEY BELONG OUTSIDE!!!!

Thankfully someone with a bit of cop on.

I have four Jack russels and they live in a barn outside. They are well fed and exercised - and in return they let me know if any strangers are around. Oh and of course they don't like rats either. They are not pets and they don't mix with children as terriers are naturally aggressive being bred for hunting.

Put him outside and he'll soon settle down to his new life.

westies4ever

rsole1 wrote: »

Thankfully someone with a bit of cop on.

I have four Jack russels and they live in a barn outside. They are well fed and exercised - and in return they let me know if any strangers are around. Oh and of course they don't like rats either. They are not pets and they don't mix with children as terriers are naturally aggressive being bred for hunting.

Put him outside and he'll soon settle down to his new life.

i agree with your take on the terrier personality - i dont think they are great for a house with kids. mine are indoor dogs but i have no kids and i know for a fact that i would not trust my male dog full time around children - hes fine with visitors but he doesnt like to be annoyed.

i would worry about putting the dog outside - - i'm not critcising you at all - you obviously have a great set up for your four and they are company for each other but i'd hate to see a dog dumped in a back garden when it could be rehomed to a more appropriate environment.

Bullseye1

The argument isn't whether the dog bit inside or outside that is missing the point. It could just as easily have happened outside. So that argument is invalid. Dogs are just as territorial outside, if not more as they spray their scent outside to mark their property.

abouttobebanned

Bullseye1 wrote: »

The argument isn't whether the dog bit inside or outside that is missing the point. It could just as easily have happened outside. So that argument is invalid. Dogs are just as territorial outside, if not more as they spray their scent outside to mark their property.

Yes but how often will your child spend outside compared to inside?

User Friendly

abouttobebanned wrote: »

Yes but how often will your child spend outside compared to inside?

the bottom line here is,the dog must be removed from the family home

Penname

Thank you all for the advice. Have taken it all on board and have been on phone to vet and shelter. Got good advice from both and have a trainer coming out to advise us.

If all comes to all, he'll be rehomed to a childless house.

Bullseye1

abouttobebanned wrote: »

Yes but how often will your child spend outside compared to inside?

Well ideally kids should be out every hour of daylight. They would be healthier and less likely to be obese but that's another topic.

Knine

rsole1 wrote: »

terriers are naturally aggressive being bred for hunting.

Put him outside and he'll soon settle down to his new life.

That is rubbish. I have terriers and they are fantastic with my children including with one who has a serious disability. Not all terriers are aggressive with children. Punish the deed not the breed. A good working ability in a terrier who can kill rats etc does not mean he is likely to try and kill the children.

And if you put the dog out in the back garden, he will be miserable.

To the OP I'm not sure if you will get a rescue that will want to rehome this dog given his history especially at this time of year.

Wibbs

abouttobebanned wrote: »

kids and animals sharing living space is just a recipe for disaster.

I'd kinda agree with this myself. For a start I'd never trust any dog unsupervised with small children. Luckily the OP doesn't do that and stopped the attack, but I know too many people who are quite blase about this. Particularly with the smaller breeds thinking of them as "safer". I've had way more small breeds snap at me in my life than large breeds and gun to my head I'd trust the average Rottweiler around kids far more than the average Terrier. The small ones can often get away with murder because they're "cuter". Like I've said before, terrier jumps on your lap and growls at strangers = "ahhh he's protecting me(he's not)" Versus German shepherd jumps on your lap and growls at a stranger = "call the Guards! It's an attack dog!!".

In any other forum but this, people would accept that animals are always unpredictable

I'd agree with this too. Hell people are pretty unpredictable and we can read each other a lot better than most can read dogs. I've seen people hugging dogs thinking this was cute and the dog liked it, yet one look at the dog and it was usually licking it's lips with eyes darting. Clearly indicating discomfort.

Look at the OP's situation. Child puts their head down to the dog. This can be quite threatening for a dog. In the dog world it's invading space/dominance. Now they may take this time and time again, but all it takes is the once when it thinks "feck this for a game of soldiers. I've warned them often enough, time to put my point across that they're taking liberties". IMHO this is actually more likely with an otherwise well behaved submissive dog. A more dominant dog would have growled and put their point across long before the biting would be needed.

We've all snapped at/had arguments with loved ones in our lives. Sometimes real humdingers. A dog will do the same, but uses it's teeth to get the point across, especially if it's already given clear signs in the dog world to back off. Signs that a remarkable amount of people miss or ignore. Children doubly so. Naturally, they're kids. Plus they tend to poke and prod and yelp, which can trigger all sorts of switches in the dog mind.

Again more a problem with the smaller dogs IMHO. A high pitched yelp and growl from a Pom will often go ignored when the same from a Husky would get the point across. Again IMHO little dogs wrongly get a lot of stick for being snappy and it's down to human reactions not the dogs. Ditto for ignoring their prey instinct. Like rsole1 said JRT's were bred for ratting and the like. Their ratting skills would have the best rat catching cat in the world hanging their head in shame. They were once just as much a "working breed" as a German Shepherd.

westies4ever

Knine wrote: »

That is rubbish. I have terriers and they are fantastic with my children including with one who has a serious disability. Not all terriers are aggressive with children. Punish the deed not the breed. A good working ability in a terrier who can kill rats etc does not mean he is likely to try and kill the children.

And if you put the dog out in the back garden, he will be miserable.

To the OP I'm not sure if you will get a rescue that will want to rehome this dog given his history especially at this time of year.

its not rubbish - its true - any research on terriers will tell you they have a natural hunting instinct and can be quick to annoy; no one is saying all terriers are aggressive nor are they attacking the breed (i wouldnt have any other type of dog as i love them so much) - mine certainly arent aggressive but i wouldnt trust them unsupervised with children or around children full time.

outdoors for a dog is fine IF the owner has the appropriate set up for them.

any responsible rescue will stand over its dogs for life and will help the OP rehome the dog to a more approriate environment. You have given no advice here at all!

Wibbs

Penname wrote: »

Thank you all for the advice. Have taken it all on board and have been on phone to vet and shelter. Got good advice from both and have a trainer coming out to advise us.

If all comes to all, he'll be rehomed to a childless house.

Fair play P My take would be a once off incident in an otherwise good dog shouldn't condemn the dog, especially if its buttons were pushed. Trainer a great idea too. Hope it works out for you and your family.

Knine wrote: »

And if you put the dog out in the back garden, he will be miserable.

Maybe and it would certainly be a shock to the system for a previously house bound dog, but I'd also suggest in the majority of cases the owner would be miserable and project this onto the dog. I've found human projection of all kinds, often quite wrong, is endemic in dog lovers and the more dog lover they are the more this goes on.

Knine

westies4ever wrote: »

its not rubbish - its true - any research on terriers will tell you they have a natural hunting instinct and can be quick to annoy; no one is saying all terriers are aggressive nor are they attacking the breed (i wouldnt have any other type of dog as i love them so much) - mine certainly arent aggressive but i wouldnt trust them unsupervised with children or around children full time.

outdoors for a dog is fine IF the owner has the appropriate set up for them.

Well with my vast experience of showing, working and breeding terriers along with several other breeds, I can tell you the opposite. I also very regularly handle a lot of different breeds of dogs and I never have any terrier issues.

Again working ability in a terrier does not make them any more likely to attack someone. It is how you raise the dog, teach them what is acceptable behaviour etc and this is regardless of breed.

Of course children should never be left unsupervised with ANY Dog.

Dogs are fine outdoors but what I mean is that a dog who has been all along a house dog and suddenly finds himself outside might not be too happy.

Penname

Wibbs wrote: »

Penname wrote: »

Thank you all for the advice. Have taken it all on board and have been on phone to vet and shelter. Got good advice from both and have a trainer coming out to advise us.

If all comes to all, he'll be rehomed to a childless house.

Fair play P My take would be a once off incident in an otherwise good dog shouldn't condemn the dog, especially if its buttons were pushed. Trainer a great idea too. Hope it works out for you and your family.

Ta. We feel torn. Obviously protecting kids come first but want what's best for him too.

sezzie22

Just a note if you adopted this dog from a shelter- you would have signed a re-homing/adoption contract and the dog remains the property of the shelter/rescue- YOU MUST CONTACT THE ORGANISATION YOU ADOPTED THE DOG FROM AS YOU ARE NOT ALLOWED TO PTS THE DOG-THE RESCUE HAVE TO BE INVOLVED IN THE DECISION-ITS A LEGAL OBLIGATION ON EVERY ADOPTION CONTRACT!!!!

Penname

sezzie22 wrote: »

Just a note if you adopted this dog from a shelter- you would have signed a re-homing/adoption contract and the dog remains the property of the shelter/rescue- YOU MUST CONTACT THE ORGANISATION YOU ADOPTED THE DOG FROM AS YOU ARE NOT ALLOWED TO PTS THE DOG-THE RESCUE HAVE TO BE INVOLVED IN THE DECISION-ITS A LEGAL OBLIGATION ON EVERY ADOPTION CONTRACT!!!!

Yeah, did earlier. Thanks.

Zillah

abouttobebanned wrote: »

Cue the endless supply of "Oh buy MY dog would never do such a thing" yeah right...until he does it.

That's not what he said. What he said was "Oh but I have seen several dogs live their full lives from start to finish staying inside and have seen no aggressive behaviour". My grandmother's terrier, who I was around from the age of 5 or 6, lived her entire life inside the house and she was the kindest most gentle dog I've ever seen.

Your territorial argument is bull.

abouttobebanned

Zillah wrote: »

That's not what he said. What he said was "Oh but I have seen several dogs live their full lives from start to finish staying inside and have seen no aggressive behaviour". My grandmother's terrier, who I was around from the age of 5 or 6, lived her entire life inside the house and she was the kindest most gentle dog I've ever seen.

Your territorial argument is bull.

No. You just think it is. And you're wrong.

fret_wimp2

Dont blame the dog for this. Dogs are pack animals and act on instinct. If a dog does anything wrong, its always due to lack of training or knowledge on the owner. I 100% believe this. your dog bites, you should have trained them not to.

Secondly,the dog needs to be put in its place. Simple as. Dicipline the dog, show him his place in the family/pack.

I had a jack russel terrier for 15 years, from pup until he recently passed away.

When he was a pup he made a snap for my nose once. He got pinned to the ground and shouted at, just as a dog would pin another dog to the ground and growl. He also got a smack across the nose.

He never ever bared his teeth to any of us again.

Also, Ensure your child knows how to live with a dog. Ive saw kids pull at, walk on, thorw and abuse dogs and parents think its "cute" saying how much the child loves the dog, but if the dog makes so much as a sniff or growl to indicate discomfort hes slapped or worse.

If someone done anything threatening to me, id put them in their place. if the child came in quickly and very close to the dog, thats threatening right there. Teach the child not to do that!


Finally, ensure your dog gets enough exercise. a dog with a lot of pent up energy is a recipe for disaster, especially terriers, as if they are not tired they need to be busy. bring him for loooong walks, give him stimilus such as a big raw bone, something to keep him busy. he will have less energy and will be more docile.

alie

abouttobebanned wrote: »

Put the Dog in the back garden!!! Come on people, the amount of stories I'm reading on this bloody forum about people that are heartbroken cause their dog attacked their child in the house. What do you expect? Dogs are territorial animals, and I don't care how much grief I get for this - THEY BELONG OUTSIDE!!!!

And what happens if the kids are out too?

kylith

I'm surprised at the rescue rehoming a terrier with small children; they're not a breed that will take any messing, and I was nipped plenty of times by ours when I was a child. If the child's skin wasn't broken then the attack, while shocking, is unlikely to have been vicious; if he had really wanted to hurt your daughter he could have.

Definitely get on to the rescue and they should take the dog back. If you decide to get another dog there are plenty of breeds with longer fuses than a terrier has. As a rule of thumb I find that the larger the dog the more patience they have with little ones.

mad_shopaholic

bring him back to the shelter to be rehomed its not worth the risk you were lucky this time there was no serious injury to her whos to say he wont do it again as you said yourself your daughter did nothing to provoke him.
(also happened me as a child with a dog we had when I was younger also did nothing to provoke him.unfortunately i wasnt so lucky and have been left with scar on my face)

Zapperzy

rsole1 wrote: »

Treat him like a lesser member of the pack, he's looking to become top dog. He needs discipline and to be put in his place. Put him outside and leave him there, feed him and exercise him. That's his new role -watch dog.

Dogs are not wolves, you've been watching too much cesar milan. Throwing this dog is the back garden and just feeding him and exercising him and other than that having no human interaction is a recipe for disaster when one day the child decides to open the back door and go outside to the dog.

abouttobebanned wrote: »

Put the Dog in the back garden!!! Come on people, the amount of stories I'm reading on this bloody forum about people that are heartbroken cause their dog attacked their child in the house. What do you expect? Dogs are territorial animals, and I don't care how much grief I get for this - THEY BELONG OUTSIDE!!!!

Again as above what happens when the OP turns their back for a second and the child opens the back door and goes out to the dog? I done it once when I was a wee one, the grandparents dobermann who was trained as a guard dog and had never encountered children before, I disappeared and they found me outside hanging out of the poor dog! Luckily for me Bruce turned out to be a gentle giant with kids despite being a pretty ferocious guard dog when strangers were around the house.

abouttobebanned wrote: »

:rolleyes:

First off, I have no idea who your friends are or what kind of dogs you have so your lame attempt to beat my argument with "experience" is somewhat pointless.

In any other forum but this, people would accept that animals are always unpredictable. I mean how many times have you read about people being "shocked" that their precious pet turned on their child?

I have a springer spaniel, and he's the gentlest creature you could meet, but he doesn't share a house with my 7 month old daughter. He has a massive kennel and a massive run in the back garden, and he absolutely loves it. (2 of the warmest blankets you could imagine in the kennel).

kids and animals sharing living space is just a recipe for disaster.

Cue the endless supply of "Oh buy MY dog would never do such a thing" yeah right...until he does it.

I won't say my dog would never do such a thing as I don't know if he will, yes he's an animal so I don't know whats going through his head at all times. I believe dogs should never be fully 110% trusted around kids (and likewise kids never fully trusted around dogs), you never know when one day the dog is feeling unwell or has a sore ear and some kid comes along and hangs out of him and pokes him, dog snaps and immediately it's the dog's fault.
Dogs are animals just like horses, cattle, cats and mice are. Dogs are the only animal that we have this it bites so must be put down mantra. A horse kicks or bites and we don't immediately rush to get the gun and shoot it do we? I disturbed a horse eating once and by millimetres it missed me with a very powerful kick, was said horse put down, no, I got told how stupid I was to disturb a horse eating!

abouttobebanned wrote: »

Yes but how often will your child spend outside compared to inside?

Do your children not play in the garden?

OP I think your making the right decision by getting a behaviourist in (I hope a reputable behaviourist) to try and make sense of the situation. A vet visit to rule out any problems is a must too.
Hope your child is ok and won't have a fear of dogs as a result. No harm in getting her to meet friendly dogs again to ensure she doesn't develop a fear.

ppink

Zapperzy wrote: »

I disturbed a horse eating once and by millimetres it missed me with a very powerful kick, was said horse put down, no, I got told how stupid I was to disturb a horse eating!

me too! I got such an earful and I was only young. Around that time there were reports of a guy getting kicked in the head and killed by a thoroughbred ...no way that horse was pts either!

Zapperzy wrote: »

Do your children not play in the garden?

I'd imagine they are sayign the dog should be in a run contained. I can never understand the appeal of having a dog that is in a run out the back for 22 hours a day and may get a walk for 2 hours. what do people get out of that pet ownership, a walking companion maybe?

Wibbs

mad_shopaholic wrote: »

whos to say he wont do it again as you said yourself your daughter did nothing to provoke him.

I would respectfully disagree.

Penname wrote: »

So last night, he was sitting at my feet when my kid went over, put her head down to him (which she does all the time - they are very affectionate with him) and he went for her

The bit in bold is threatening to a dog. Most will go along with it for the quiet life and out of respect for the family, but would likely go for another dog who tried it. You may not see it as provocation, but that has been my point, a dog will. People can have little clue about what will trigger a dogs behaviour and fewer can read their less obvious signs of discomfort.

Zapperzy wrote:

you never know when one day the dog is feeling unwell or has a sore ear and some kid comes along and hangs out of him and pokes him, dog snaps and immediately it's the dog's fault.
Dogs are animals just like horses, cattle, cats and mice are. Dogs are the only animal that we have this it bites so must be put down mantra. A horse kicks or bites and we don't immediately rush to get the gun and shoot it do we? I disturbed a horse eating once and by millimetres it missed me with a very powerful kick, was said horse put down, no, I got told how stupid I was to disturb a horse eating!

+1000. If every pet cat that scratched their owner or friends of same was put down, there would be a helluva lot fewer cats around. Ditto like you say with horses. Horses can nip, kick, throw you, even deliberately stand on your foot for shíts and giggles and no one is breaking out the syringe. I think it's down to the idea that dogs are closest to us and people tend to anthropomorphise them and treat them like "furry children" more. So it rattles their cage more when the dog starts acting like a dog and not a human. Hence the reaction.

x Purple Pawprints x

abouttobebanned wrote: »

Put the Dog in the back garden!!! Come on people, the amount of stories I'm reading on this bloody forum about people that are heartbroken cause their dog attacked their child in the house. What do you expect? Dogs are territorial animals, and I don't care how much grief I get for this - THEY BELONG OUTSIDE!!!!

Just because they belong outside doesn't mean they should go around attacking children.

OP try a behaviourist (a good one) or if you can't afford that try to rehome the dog. If you can't I'm afraid getting him PTS is the only option. Better safe than sorry. If he attacked again there's nothing to say he won't seriously hurt your child.

Wibbs

Zapperzy wrote: »

Dogs are not wolves, you've been watching too much cesar milan.

I'd kinda disagree. They are wolves, however they're domesticated juvenile wolves. That's the big difference. The difference Milan et al seem to miss. They're still going on out of date thoughts on wolf behaviour(observed in captivity among adolescent wolves). The real deal is much more like a dog in some ways. Not nearly as aggressive or dominant(with a Mexican accent:) )with each other as believed. The "pack" is a family unit. Indeed much more like human family units than chimps for example. One reason we fitted so well with each other at the start of the domestication process. Many thousands of years ago a tame wolf cub wouldn't get that much of a culture shock being raised as part of a hunter gatherer family/tribe. At least not until it hit maturity and wanted to go off and start it's own family. Domestication took that part out of the mix. It can even go the other way too on those rare and fascinating occasions where children have been "raised" by and ran with wild wolves or feral dogs. Contrary to the Tarzan story that ain't gonna happen with chimps.

Throwing this dog is the back garden and just feeding him and exercising him and other than that having no human interaction is a recipe for disaster when one day the child decides to open the back door and go outside to the dog.

Plus one and even the full on "dogs are wolves" crowd would agree on this score. Wolves don't isolate family members for wrong actions. It would screw up the whole family/pack dynamic. They don't wrestle others to the ground either. If one tried it it wouldn't last long. I'd love to see Cesar try that with an actual wolf. Cue gory snuff movie.

portgirl123

abouttobebanned wrote: »

Put the Dog in the back garden!!! Come on people, the amount of stories I'm reading on this bloody forum about people that are heartbroken cause their dog attacked their child in the house. What do you expect? Dogs are territorial animals, and I don't care how much grief I get for this - THEY BELONG OUTSIDE!!!!

bull ****e. dogs DO NOT belong outside

Hellrazer

Wibbs wrote: »

I'd kinda agree with this myself. For a start I'd never trust any dog unsupervised with small children.

This + 1000000000000



No dog should ever be unsupervised around any dog.No matter how good that dog is around kids.Even my own are supervised especially at eating times.
My dog is trained that I or any of the kids for that matter could take a steak out of her mouth and she wouldnt flinch but I still wouldnt let the kids even try it.

All these threads about peoples dogs biting kids seem to evolve around something the child has done and not the dog.

Hellrazer

portgirl123 wrote: »

bull ****e. dogs DO NOT belong outside

Calm down.

boomerang

Please take the opinions given here with a grain of salt. The dog wasn't jealous. The dog wasn't trying to assert himself over your child. He wasn't claiming you as your property. I have yet to meet a dog that likes someone get in their face - especially when they have been minding their own business. I think we need to be very clear in our use of language here. Your dog did not attack your child and he did not bite. He responded emotionally to a threat by snapping as a warning when he felt he had no alternative. I would be interested to know if the dog was napping or laid out when the child approached - and if the dog was aware of the child's movements before she bore down on him. Is it possible he got a fright?

OP, the likelihood is this dog is as safe as any dog *can* be around small children. I doubt the rescue anticipated that the children would be coming near his food bowl when he was eating, or putting their faces down towards him, which is very threatening to a dog.

I know you have put a lot of work into ensuring the dog does not feel so threatened when the children interfere with his food bowl, but ideally they should be prevented from going anywhere near the bowl when he is eating.

No dog likes anyone bearing over them, especially when they are resting, and I would encourage you to look at some information on how to teach kids to safely interact with their pet dog. You need to know what kind of behaviours from the kids will annoy, threaten or hurt the dog.

There are people out there who think that dogs should be absolutely perfect angels willing to put up with any kind of treatment without complaint. If they snap, growl or show their teeth (all warning signs in canine communication, and none of which inflict injury - that's the whole point, because the dog does not want to get into a confrontation) then it's a dealbreaker and the dog is deemed vicious or unsafe, and put down. But what human could live up to such a standard? And these are just dogs, after all.

From what you are saying, the dog felt defensive when your child bore down on him. Imagine yourself being the size of terrier, and a child looming over you like that. The dog didn't attack you child. He didn't bite your child. There are no wounds, and there's no blood. Your dog was giving a warning. "Don't come any closer or I may be forced to bite." If he had wanted to inflict injuries, he would have. It wasn't vicious. It might have looked that way to you, but the dog as they say can't send solicitor's letters - he only has his mouth to express himself with when he's forced into a corner. You should actually feel reassured by the fact that he didn't break the skin - it shows he has good "bite inhibition." A genuinely aggressive dog would have skipped simply snapping as a warning, and gone straight to biting for real.

Don't panic and give up on the dog. Don't think the rescue gave you a defective animal. Just learn a bit more about how dogs respond to humans (especially kids) and be proactive about preventing situations that put the dog (and kids) in a vulnerable position.

Have a look here:
http://drsophiayin.com/blog/entry/kids-and-dogs-how-kids-should-and-should-not-interact-with-dogs

"Actions that might cause the family dog to bite are common sense... Kids frequently can’t help but get in your face. They often have to be trained to maintain the appropriate social distance. Similarly, putting your face into a dog’s face, even if it’s all in the family, can be irritating to the dog, especially when the dog has no control over the child’s behavior." - Dr Sophia Yin.

You've been doing really great in training your dog and integrating him into the family - please don't give up on him now.

Hellrazer

sezzie22 wrote: »

YOU MUST CONTACT THE ORGANISATION YOU ADOPTED THE DOG FROM AS YOU ARE NOT ALLOWED TO PTS THE DOG-THE RESCUE HAVE TO BE INVOLVED IN THE DECISION-ITS A LEGAL OBLIGATION ON EVERY ADOPTION CONTRACT!!!!

Has one of these so called "contracts" ever been tested in a court house???
I cant find any evidence of it being legally binding.