Some survival thoughts...

Gonzor

Im not really into the whole survival thing generally. But I do have an interest in the collapse of societies... although my interest is from a historic point of view and not really from the "SHTF" or "The governments out to get us" type of thing.

So here are some thoughts on a "SHTF" in Ireland from a different perspective then you are probably used to reading.


1) Society doesnt generally collapse in minutes or hours. It doesnt just happen that you are walking down the street doing your shopping and suddenly out of nowhere there are gangs of looters, shops getting burnt down, people being shot/killed for food etc... For the most part, a collapse in society could take anywhere from weeks to months to years.

Now obviously there will be some exceptions to that, exceptions will most likely be in the form of a natural disaster- earthquake, tidal waves, volcanoes etc.. Obviously we dont have to worry about these issues too much because Ireland doesn't usually have those kind of problems naturally (unless of course we were worried about a man-made tsunami being directed at us)


2) Depending on what we are dealing with (euro collapse, governments out to get us, riots on the street because of next weeks budget etc vs deadly virus, tidal wave, aliens, zombies etc) in just over an hours drive from our capital is a safe haven in the form of a whole different country. Whether you like it or not, the North in the strictest sense is a different country.

Id say its a safe bet to think that roadblocks and checkpoints would be setup to prevent the sudden influx of people into such a small country... Im not promoting anything illegal here, but can anyone name one collapsed country where its neighbouring countries were able to successfully keep out the sudden increase of unwanted people by roadblocks?


3) Guns. I see/hear from people all the time talking about getting a gun in case SHTF. Let me say this nice and big

THIS ISN'T THE USA

THIS IS IRELAND.

Please don't let US authors/US websites influence your way of thinking.

Our government keeps a very tight ship on who has firearms (well the legally held ones). At the first sign of trouble our government will (and always have) taken the guns of the people... you only need to go back a few years to see the perfect example of this. Members of my own family lost firearms because the government were preparing for trouble, and Im not talking about grandfathers and great grandfathers either.

If you were living in the US then yes of course, buying a gun would make a bit more sense but not in Ireland. Buying a gun in Ireland for SHTF is actually counter-intuitive.

TO get the whole package of a decent shotgun, club fees, insurance fees, the shotgun, the licence, competency test, ammo fees (and then all the other bits and pieces you will invariably end up buying- hearing protection, cleaning kit, ammo, etc) you would easily be out 600-700 euro.

THat 600-700 euro investment will most likely be confisicated as soon as the trouble starts looming. If you invested that much money into food/water supplies you would be **far** better off and far better prepared then a guy with a shotgun.

Ok, lets just assume for a minute that the government were kind enough to let us keep our guns even though all hell is breaking loose. What uses does a gun bring anyway?

Food/Hunting... well firstly the money you invest in getting setup with a gun and hunting gear could easily buy you enough rice/pasta/beans/porridge/tinned food etc to last you and your family a very very very long time.

Secondly a gun only hunts for as many hours as you hunt, a gun only gets through the same amount of fields as you can get through. Whereas snares and traps on the other hand, they hunt 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, 365 days a year... They cost next to nothing to make and dont require as many "additional" items (camo gear, range finder, scopes, higher velocity ammo, mounts and rings, bipods, moderators etc) or even as much skill to use effectively.

As an avid hunter (and owner of 3 rifles and a shotty), I can definietly say Id far rather have a huge stash of tinned food over a firearm in a SHTF. (Oh and for the people stocking up freezers with tons of rabbits. I hope you got a generator to power that freezer when the electric goes out)

Defence... The problem here is that this is not Hollywood. Home defence is not something you can just learn as you go along. THere are so many things in home defence that you would never think about until its too late.

Coincidently Sky news ran a story 2 days ago that involved intruders in a house, and a father with a pistol who shot and killed his own daughter who appeared out of nowhere while he was searching for said intruders. And to be honest, thats a recurring theme, how often have you heard about home defence stories gone wrong from this year alone.

You are just gonna have to trust me on this one. Home defence has far too many variables- even just to give you a small example... do you use a shotgun and possibly shoot everybody in the room because of how it spreads, or do you use a .22 rifle that are absolutely lethal for richocheting of everything it hits? What if you miss and your target gets a grip of the gun while you're recycling the bolt? What if the person is standing in the middle of you and your family? Do you take the shot and hope you dont miss. Even if you dont miss the target, what happens if the bullet over penetrates? Home defence with a firearm is really not something you should partake in if you dont know what you're doing.

This section is fairly lenghty and I touched on a lot of different areas, if you only take one point from this section, make sure its that you know that our government will confisicate firearms if trouble starts brewing up like they have done in the past. I just see so many people buying into the whole "I'm getting a gun incase SHTF"... which like Ive said, is all well and good if you live in the USA, but not here in Ireland.


4) Water. I dont know why, but for some reason people planning for SHTF never really seem to have much of a plan for water. I personally reckon its because it doesnt have the same appeal as roughing it in the woods, or preparing for Hollywood gunfights, or protecting your family in the face of danger and maybe even saving a couple of damsels in distress along the way. Water should definitely be on the top of your preparation list. Forget that new really cool tactical knife, forget the guns, forget the hoards of tinned food, if you havent got a water supply then you're not going to live long enough to care about any of that stuff.


This post was supposed to list almost 20 points.... but I didnt realise it would get so long (and Ive only just covered 4 points). I guess I'll just end it here because I doubt anyone will read it if it gets much longer, and secondly Im not the fastest typer in the world and this has taken me ages to type up. I dont fancy sitting here all day typing.

Builderfromhell

Excellent post.
I agree with pretty much everything you have written.
Hope you will add more later.

I especially agree with the idea of a gradual demise or collapse of institutions or order which could gradually make life more and more difficult. These problems might cause an acceleration of decay in other areas or people might set up alternatives very fast.
I understand the Roman Empire took years to collapse.

Put simply, you seem to be suggesting stocking up on food, storing water and maybe having a generator. Most of the other stuff is less important.

Grizzly 45

Depending on what we are dealing with (euro collapse, governments out to get us, riots on the street because of next weeks budget etc vs deadly virus, tidal wave, aliens, zombies etc) in just over an hours drive from our capital is a safe haven in the form of a whole different country. Whether you like it or not, the North in the strictest sense is a different country.

Thats on the ASSumption you and a two to three million others WILL get out of the Greater Dublin area.A couple of inevitable good car wrecks on our highways and you wont be going very far by car anymore.Public transport...Lets not even go there.You will be walking with what you can carry out into the country.What makes you think that outside Dublin is a "safe haven"??Do you think the rest of Ireland is suddenly going to welcome in a bunch of homeless "Jackeens".Realistically the "Culchie vs Jackeen" in built into every Irish psyche will come to the forefront.Make no bones about it,we are still a tribal race.No one in a disaster or earth changing crisis is going to be that chartible.My mother lived thru being a refugee in wartime Germany,and she recounts often enough living with a farmers family who be grudgingly let them live in the barn,but wouldnt share the food,and my mother and uncles had to watch as kids the farmers family stuffing themselves with hoarded food!!That changed pretty quickly when the American GIs arrived.Then to prevent losing all he was quick to share out with the American troops.

Id say its a safe bet to think that roadblocks and checkpoints would be setup to prevent the sudden influx of people into such a small country... Im not promoting anything illegal here, but can anyone name one collapsed country where its neighbouring countries were able to successfully keep out the sudden increase of unwanted people by roadblocks?

They will be more likely set up to keep people IN the Dublin area,as that is where the most of the pouplation of Ireland lives and the infrastructure of the country is.The rest of us,fend for yerselves as ye have always done!
As for a bankrupt country that kept its people in with roadblocks etc...East Germany??

Guns. I see/hear from people all the time talking about getting a gun in case SHTF. Let me say this nice and big

THIS ISN'T THE USA

THIS IS IRELAND.

Please don't let US authors/US websites influence your way of thinking.

Yes thats a given... We are not America.HOWEVER it is an AMERICAN concept!!And 99.9% of the authors are American so therefore the thinking will be alot towards American.While it is a fallacy to go with everything they say,you should be able to adapt and improvise to local conditions.

Our government keeps a very tight ship on who has firearms (well the legally held ones). At the first sign of trouble our government will (and always have) taken the guns of the people... you only need to go back a few years to see the perfect example of this. Members of my own family lost firearms because the government were preparing for trouble, and Im not talking about grandfathers and great grandfathers either.

If you were living in the US then yes of course, buying a gun would make a bit more sense but not in Ireland. Buying a gun in Ireland for SHTF is actually counter-intuitive.

That will be THE most intresting time.I really cant see the Gardai risking the limited resources of the ERU,who will be needeed on more important fire brigade missions going around to each and every farm and gun owner to retrive [possibly bulletts firs] the few guns.Ditto for Army and ARW.There is too much risk of losing qualified manpower in either gunfights for nothing or tying it up in seige situations.
Being a super ninja with all the gear and kevelar doesnt make you immortal either.You bleed red just as anyone else.

TO get the whole package of a decent shotgun, club fees, insurance fees, the shotgun, the licence, competency test, ammo fees (and then all the other bits and pieces you will invariably end up buying- hearing protection, cleaning kit, ammo, etc) you would easily be out 600-700 euro.

THat 600-700 euro investment will most likely be confisicated as soon as the trouble starts looming. If you invested that much money into food/water supplies you would be **far** better off and far better prepared then a guy with a shotgun.

Ahem! Going abit over the top arent we??You dont need to be a member of a gun club unless you are taking up target shooting with a rifle or handgun.You can still get game and vermin shooting with two written permissions from a local farmer ,or you are a landowner yourself.
In recessionary times as now there are plenty of fine guns going for more reasonable money than ever before .Learning,well find somone who can teach you firearms saftey properly,or do the NARGC course which doesnt cost the earth either.and Countryside Alliance insurance is 60 quid a year.
So to get into shooting nowadays half your money,and you learn a valueable skill ..SAFE gun handling,and knowing how to shoot.

Not to mind you having alot of food is going to make you a "hoarder" in the eyes of the authorithies and they will confiscare your surpluses as well.The next scobe coming by with a sawn off will relive you of the next10% and anything else you might have.:(

Ok, lets just assume for a minute that the government were kind enough to let us keep our guns even though all hell is breaking loose. What uses does a gun bring anyway?

In that kind of a situation you had better have one and also know how to use it!!

Food/Hunting... well firstly the money you invest in getting setup with a gun and hunting gear could easily buy you enough rice/pasta/beans/porridge/tinned food etc to last you and your family a very very very long time.

Until the first scobe walks in the door with a sawn off shotgun and relives you of it. Or the powers that be once they have taken your legally held guns decide that you are a "hoarder and profiteer" and take 90% of your stock as well!:eek:Where are you then??

Secondly a gun only hunts for as many hours as you hunt, a gun only gets through the same amount of fields as you can get through. Whereas snares and traps on the other hand, they hunt 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, 365 days a year... They cost next to nothing to make and dont require as many "additional" items (camo gear, range finder, scopes, higher velocity ammo, mounts and rings, bipods, moderators etc) or even as much skill to use effectively.

Are you SERIOUS on the last statement????Learning to trap and snare,not bunny rabbitts is a lifelong skill aquired by doing it every season.Most people here have no clue what a deadfall or finger four trap is or how to set one properly.I still cant make a proper finger four trigger mechanism after 25 years of trying.Nor will they get much opportunity to learn either,as all types of Deadfalls are illegal here,as are most other types of traps,nor can we discuss them either.Yes you are right in a survival situation you wont "go hunting"as we know it.It will be foraging,and we wont be too worried about the legality of seasons ,methods and whatnot.
BTW all that extra gear you mention is totally unnecessary to own a gun and shoot.It enhances the possibllity,but it wont make up for shooting skills.

As an avid hunter (and owner of 3 rifles and a shotty), I can definietly say Id far rather have a huge stash of tinned food over a firearm in a SHTF. (Oh and for the people stocking up freezers with tons of rabbits. I hope you got a generator to power that freezer when the electric goes out)

Well there is still salting,curing,smoking,pickling,and iceball refridgeration [using a fire and thermodynamics]:) to refridgerate long after the power is out.Hope you stock a shteload of multi vitamins as well as you are going to be pretty unwell living out of cans for that length of time.

[QUOTE]Defence... The problem here is that this is not Hollywood. Home defence is not something you can just learn as you go along. THere are so many things in home defence that you would never think about until its too late[/QUOTE].

Very true..However there is nothing stopping anyone from hopping on a plane and learning it elsewhere 100% legally outside this juristiction.
Or taking up airsoft and learning a whole gamut of small unit tactics,leapfrogging,instinctive shooting,house and room clearing etc.All under the guise of "playing cowboys and indians for grownups:rolleyes::rolleyes:
As somone who was involved in personal protection work and hoome defence in the USA.It is alot of common sense and alot of practise and prepardness for the situation if it might arise.If you have them in your house and are in a shooting situation,your plan has failed.Same as with BG work,if you have to draw your sidearm to defend your client you have lost already.

Coincidently Sky news ran a story 2 days ago that involved intruders in a house, and a father with a pistol who shot and killed his own daughter who appeared out of nowhere while he was searching for said intruders. And to be honest, thats a recurring theme, how often have you heard about home defence stories gone wrong from this year alone.

Quite frankly ,NONE!but you never hear of how many lives were saved by guns either in the US.:rolleyes:If it is a recurring theme it is because of the failure of the eight P's [Prudent Prior Proper Planning Prevents Piss Poor Performance!] by those kind of people.

You are just gonna have to trust me on this one. Home defence has far too many variables- even just to give you a small example... do you use a shotgun and possibly shoot everybody in the room because of how it spreads, or do you use a .22 rifle that are absolutely lethal for richocheting of everything it hits? What if you miss and your target gets a grip of the gun while you're recycling the bolt? What if the person is standing in the middle of you and your family? Do you take the shot and hope you dont miss. Even if you dont miss the target, what happens if the bullet over penetrates? Home defence with a firearm is really not something you should partake in if you dont know what you're doing

Well if you describe those situations your Home defence plan was a total POS in the first place.:rolleyes::rolleyes:.Anyone trained and knowledgeable in home defence wouldnt ever let it come that far.This is a learnable skill like anything else people..Just not in Ireland.
.

This section is fairly lenghty and I touched on a lot of different areas, if you only take one point from this section, make sure its that you know that our government will confisicate firearms if trouble starts brewing up like they have done in the past. I just see so many people buying into the whole "I'm getting a gun incase SHTF"... which like Ive said, is all well and good if you live in the USA, but not here in Ireland.

It didnt work too well in the LA riots either,trying to buy a gun .So there will be plenty of disappointed Irish people,and TBH I cant see people buying into this situation either over here.

4)

Water. I dont know why, but for some reason people planning for SHTF never really seem to have much of a plan for water. I personally reckon its because it doesnt have the same appeal as roughing it in the woods, or preparing for Hollywood gunfights, or protecting your family in the face of danger and maybe even saving a couple of damsels in distress along the way. Water should definitely be on the top of your preparation list. Forget that new really cool tactical knife, forget the guns, forget the hoards of tinned food, if you havent got a water supply then you're not going to live long enough to care about any of that stuff.

You have hit the nail on the head with this.However one thing we are blessed with here is plenty of Rain!!:D Unless its a total Nuke war,I think the stuff falling out the heavens is pretty usable and drinkable at any given time.Also ,by and large our water in rivers and streams is still pretty drinkable without too much bother or elaborate filteration.

This post was supposed to list almost 20 points.... but I didnt realise it would get so long (and Ive only just covered 4 points). I guess I'll just end it here because I doubt anyone will read it if it gets much longer, and secondly Im not the fastest typer in the world and this has taken me ages to type up. I dont fancy sitting here all day typing.

Not at all,you coverd some very good points.:)

krissovo

Interesting post, I would agree with a lot of your words.

1. Your right society does not typically collapse over night, take our current situation. Most my friends and family were "on paper" millionaires or close to it a couple of years ago. Now on paper they are close to bankruptcy and will be in debt till the day they die.

Society has already changed, you cannot own or buy anything of value in Ireland without people turning their noses up at you. You also cannot have guaranteed future without the majority turning on you, pubic sector workers for example. We are on a dangerous path.

2. The North is already close to breaking point, it certainly does not figure in any of my plans apart from a shopping trip or two with my Sterling.

3. Guns, I have them as I happen to like shooting as a hobby. I would rather have one than not, your correct this is not America but its a force multiplier in my point of view.

Food/Hunting - Again for me its a hobby, I do have more luck using a empty wheely bin with bait and figure 4 trigger than most hunts I go on. I would never plan on hunting in a situation as you said trapping is the way forward.

Defense - I will have to disagree for most of this, my situation does require defense. If you are in a typical housing estate then I would mostly agree but there are 500,000 rural homes in Ireland where you need some kind of a defense plan. As a young boisterous lad our group never went near farms for fear of a shotgun. A gun will always be part of my plan, luckily I am fairly handy with them.

4. I think the Irish are finally copping onto water, ok its only because of the threat of water meters but more and more are starting to plan.

Grizzly 45

krissovo wrote: »

1. Your right society does not typically collapse over night, take our current situation. Most my friends and family were "on paper" millionaires or close to it a couple of years ago. Now on paper they are close to bankruptcy and will be in debt till the day they die.

Society has already changed, you cannot own or buy anything of value in Ireland without people turning their noses up at you. You also cannot have guaranteed future without the majority turning on you, pubic sector workers for example. We are on a dangerous path.

Alot of that is simply good old Irish begrudgery!!You were looked down on upon because you were driving a two year "old" car and didnt have property in all four corners of the Globe and wernt into selling overpriced coffee and buildings to each other.
Now you are looked down on because you have a "new" two year old car and were smart enough not to buy into the myth of the Celtic Tiger and followed the wise Chinese maxim "a man who does not wish to be eaten by a tiger[Celtic or otherwise] doesnt venture into the forest."Most of Ireland ran hell for leather into the jungle!And are now blaming everyone for their own stupidity.Intresting times indeed!

2. The North is already close to breaking point, it certainly does not figure in any of my plans apart from a shopping trip or two with my Sterling.

Pound sterling or Sterling SMG???:D

Builderfromhell

Pound sterling or Sterling SMG???

Good one:D

Gonzor

Grizzly, I never got to make all my points, but one of them was to act at the first sign of trouble. So that would mean heading for the border long before everyone else starts doing it.

I know its obvious for everyone here (Im probably preaching to the converted truth be told) but I can name a couple of lads who are making US based plans. Including stocking up on firearms. I just really think that in this forum special mention should be made to newbies not to get too hung up on American ideas. Its something that really grates on me.

As for the Garda not having the resources/balls to take the guns off us. Honestly how many people are going to get into a gun fight with the AGS. Im gonna put my head on the line and say that the vast majority of gunholders will just hand them up. Afterall us legal firearm holders tend to be a law abiding bunch. And if we give AGS hassle and not hand up, what happens when everythings back to normal in a few years and we put in an application for a new gun?

Im sorry Grizzly but I dont know what you mean by EX SF... Im just taking a guess you mean ex Sinn Fein, or in other words ex IRA... In which case, the guards should be confiscating these weapons all year round as soon as they learn about them (whether they do this or not, or are any good at their job is not a debate Id like to get into right now).

And yes, I acknowledge that you dont *need* scopes, mods, bipods and all this other stuff.... but lets be frank here. How many hunters do we know that buy that stuff anyway even though its not essential? Honestly, most people will probably end up buying it sooner or later. I can count on one hand (and still have fingers to spare) the amount of hunters that I know who hunt with just a bare rifle... no scope, no mod etc...

Grizzly the only point you make that I dont agree with is on traps and snares. You believe that they take years to master. But dont firearms also take years to master? THe difference is (and Im not aiming this at you BTW) most people try snares and traps a handful of times a year, but go out with the rifle and shotty every week.

Im sorry but I dont see how the authorities will know your hoarding food. Its not the same as a gun were its all on database. Unless of course you make a huge purchase via credit card.... but I was thinking more along the lines of those **huge** sacks of rice you can get in any decent Chinese market for pittance. Cash of course.

The predicament with Anto the scobe is a tricky one (and it really does deserve its own thread <-- theres an idea for someone). Firstly you probably wont have a gun (if we are keeping this legal) and even if you did have a gun would you really want to get into a gun fight? THe problem is there is no easy answer to Anto the scobe. If you kill him, then you have Damo and Bazz coming looking for him. Do you kill them too? There is no easy answer to this situation.

I may be wrong on this Grizzly, but Im sure you can correct me were necessary. In America home defence courses are immensely popular. However in Ireland this type of training or "practical shooting" was banned. And I know a lot of home defence is common sense when you think about it, but to the untrained person, with a gun in their hand, an intruder in their house, is it safe to say they thinking things through logically? Or are they just going to shoot in all directions at the first thing that moves... even if it is the cat. I think home defence with a gun in this country wouldnt have a happy ending for most. Not unless the government lets us train and possess firearms for the purpose of home defence.

You mentioned if you had a proper plan, then you wouldnt get into the situation of an attacker standing between you and your family. I dont think thats a fair statement. Unless you stand right beside them at all times, there is always a chance someone can get in the middle. ANd no matter how well me or you perfom, you never know when someone on our own team will do something stupid that jepordises everybody.

Red Harvest

Gonzor wrote: »

...

This post was supposed to list almost 20 points.... but I didnt realise it would get so long (and Ive only just covered 4 points). I guess I'll just end it here because I doubt anyone will read it if it gets much longer, and secondly Im not the fastest typer in the world and this has taken me ages to type up. I dont fancy sitting here all day typing.

We don't mind installments

Tabnabs

Red Harvest wrote: »

We don't mind installments

We sure don't, and instead of getting bogged down in responding to posts, it might be worthwhile going through your entire list and then let the discussion begin?

Gonzor

Red Harvest wrote: »

We don't mind installments

Will do

Tabnabs wrote: »

We sure don't, and instead of getting bogged down in responding to posts, it might be worthwhile going through your entire list and then let the discussion begin?

Will do

ShadowFox

1) Society doesnt generally collapse in minutes or hours. It doesnt just happen that you are walking down the street doing your shopping and suddenly out of nowhere there are gangs of looters, shops getting burnt down, people being shot/killed for food etc... For the most part, a collapse in society could take anywhere from weeks to months to years.

Say that to the people in London when the riots went on for 3 days and people we afraid to leave their homes or had to lock themselves in the storage rooms of their shops. Where even with at least double the police force of here people had to stand on the streets and protect their homes and families themselves

ShadowFox

2) Depending on what we are dealing with (euro collapse, governments out to get us, riots on the street because of next weeks budget etc vs deadly virus, tidal wave, aliens, zombies etc) in just over an hours drive from our capital is a safe haven in the form of a whole different country. Whether you like it or not, the North in the strictest sense is a different country.

Its an hours drive depending on normal traffic 2 years ago it took me 8 hours to get from Belfast to Dublin do to heavy rain and flooding being so bad that trains could not run so everybody and their brother were on the road. Parts of the M1 were impassible same with back roads. We were in a moded Landrover Defender and it took 8 hours going on roads most cars couldnt go on

Sparks

grapeape wrote: »

Say that to the people in London when the riots went on for 3 days

Well, yes; but on the other hand, the riots only kicked off in the evenings. If you travelled about in the late morning/early afternoon, you didn't encounter them; so if you left London to take a few days holidays anywhere else, you were safe.

And if you can't afford to take a few days holidays like that, you have so much to worry about from a survivalism viewpoint that "coping with a riot" is hopelessly ambitious anyway.

Sparks

grapeape wrote: »

Its an hours drive depending on normal traffic 2 years ago it took me 8 hours to get from Belfast to Dublin do to heavy rain and flooding being so bad that trains could not run so everybody and their brother were on the road. Parts of the M1 were impassible same with back roads. We were in a moded Landrover Defender and it took 8 hours going on roads most cars couldnt go on

....but (this seems to be my most used word).... it took you 8 hours because of bad weather, but it was being suggested as a bolthole in case of eurozone collapse.
Believe me, if the eurozone collapses, an 8 hour trip will be the very least of your problems.

And if there was such a serious climatic problem that you were fleeing to N.Ireland as a bolthole... well, frankly the only think I can think of that would cause that wouldn't be weather, it'd be contamination of the kind that'd need someone to (very) successfully bomb sellafield so we had a large amount of aerosolised fallout headed towards the ROI. At which point, yes, an 8-hour trip would be a problem... but I'm not sure North would be the way to go if that did happen (I'd be headed west, to get as many mountains between me and the clouds as I could before deciding where to flee to by air from Shannon (probably the Canaries because why the heck not ))

ShadowFox

Sparks wrote: »

....but (this seems to be my most used word).... it took you 8 hours because of bad weather, but it was being suggested as a bolthole in case of eurozone collapse.
Believe me, if the eurozone collapses, an 8 hour trip will be the very least of your problems.

And if there was such a serious climatic problem that you were fleeing to N.Ireland as a bolthole... well, frankly the only think I can think of that would cause that wouldn't be weather, it'd be contamination of the kind that'd need someone to (very) successfully bomb sellafield so we had a large amount of aerosolised fallout headed towards the ROI. At which point, yes, an 8-hour trip would be a problem... but I'm not sure North would be the way to go if that did happen (I'd be headed west, to get as many mountains between me and the clouds as I could before deciding where to flee to by air from Shannon (probably the Canaries because why the heck not ))

If Sellafield gets bombed successfully ill be heading west until my feet get wet then "borrowing" a boat and keep heading west because I dont think there will be a chance of a flight out of Shannon

Tigger

Gonzor wrote: »

The predicament with Anto the scobe is a tricky one (and it really does deserve its own thread <-- theres an idea for someone). Firstly you probably wont have a gun (if we are keeping this legal) and even if you did have a gun would you really want to get into a gun fight? THe problem is there is no easy answer to Anto the scobe. If you kill him, then you have Damo and Bazz coming looking for him. Do you kill them too? There is no easy answer to this situation..

my dogs need meat i see a correlation
come in with a sawn off and there is a good chance yer getting turned into dog food and potash

Tabnabs

Once again a good thread is ruined by gun talk that strays into the realms of illegality. The next person to talk about firearms gets an infraction.

slowburner

Gonzor wrote: »

a man-made tsunami being directed at us)

What is a man made tsunami?

At the first sign of trouble our government will (and always have) taken the guns of the people... you only need to go back a few years to see the perfect example of this. Members of my own family lost firearms because the government were preparing for trouble, and Im not talking about grandfathers and great grandfathers either.

When did this happen?

What uses does a gun bring anyway?

Fresh meat.

Food/Hunting... well firstly the money you invest in getting setup with a gun and hunting gear could easily buy you enough rice/pasta/beans/porridge/tinned food etc to last you and your family a very very very long time.

These foods run out, go stale or cause health problems if they are the only food in your diet - we need fresh food to live.

(Oh and for the people stocking up freezers with tons of rabbits. I hope you got a generator to power that freezer when the electric goes out)

Eat them fresh as and when needed - meat can also be cured by smoking or salting.

Grizzly 45

When did this happen?

Suppose he means the TCO in 1972??

Grizzly 45

Tabnabs wrote: »

Once again a good thread is ruined by gun talk that strays into the realms of illegality. The next person to talk about firearms gets an infraction.

Ah the joys of an Irish survival board!:eek:

Red Harvest

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Suppose he means the TCO in 1972??

Don’t suppose you want to start a thread SHTF and other survivalist acronyms ?

TCO to a computer techie like me means Total Cost of Ownership

So its Hello again Mr Google

Grizzly 45

Actually an idea there.:D
Tempoary Custody Order. Of 1972.

eth0

Sitting around and waiting for the Govt or anyone else to come around and take your stuff doesn't really seem like the best way out of a SHTF to me for some reason. Ideally when it gets to that point you should be long gone

Gonzor

eth0 wrote: »

Sitting around and waiting for the Govt or anyone else to come around and take your stuff doesn't really seem like the best way out of a SHTF to me for some reason. Ideally when it gets to that point you should be long gone

Every country has its ups and downs, you cant just up and leave everytime there is a bit of trouble in the air.

If thats the case, then we should all be booking flights out of Ireland right now because of this thing with the Euro.

If it does collapse and providing the "experts" are correct about what will happen the money in the banks (due to the punt nua conversion) I cant see it going down too well. There will be a lot of people pissed off to realise their life savings is only worth 1/10th of what it was worth last week.

eth0

Gonzor wrote: »

Every country has its ups and downs, you cant just up and leave everytime there is a bit of trouble in the air.

If thats the case, then we should all be booking flights out of Ireland right now because of this thing with the Euro.

If it does collapse and providing the "experts" are correct about what will happen the money in the banks (due to the punt nua conversion) I cant see it going down too well. There will be a lot of people pissed off to realise their life savings is only worth 1/10th of what it was worth last week.

Its always something to keep in mind but I don't think they'll come looking for anything if the euro does collapse. Its thieving scum you'd have to be more worried about then. That stuff in the 70's was over the Troubles, can't see that happening any time soon

Gonzor

eth0 wrote: »

Its always something to keep in mind but I don't think they'll come looking for anything if the euro does collapse. Its thieving scum you'd have to be more worried about then. That stuff in the 70's was over the Troubles, can't see that happening any time soon

What difference does it make whether its the IRA robbing firearms or 'thieving scum' robbing firearms.

kildare.17hmr

Gonzor wrote: »

What difference does it make whether its the IRA robbing firearms or 'thieving scum' robbing firearms.

the IRA were a well organised military unit and would have used the guns in terrorist activity, thieving scum are opertunistic and for the most part not well organised.

Have to agree with eth0, cant see it happening

Grizzly 45

You will proably find either terrs or theiving scum better equipped in a situation than us or the law enforcement /army who will NOT be protecting us.As they have NO obligation to do so.
Cant see the RA kicking off with NI again,but then you never know what their more unstable ex colleuges might try.

As for scobes with guns,unless they have got training in actually using these properly.And I DO NOT mean going off on a stag weekend to the Czech republic and blazing a few hundered quid worth of ammo down range while some Ivan loads and hands you the AK at stationary targets.Which according to AGS and Irish media churnalists is "training":rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:.One scobe lad from Limerick went off on a so called bodygaurd course in Florida a few years ago..He was shot a month later in Limerick.!!!Obviously wasnt a very good course then!:rolleyes::D.
They will suffer the same syndrome Gonzor was on about."Get a gun and I'll survive".So maybe expect alot of firepower to appear on the scene ,but dont expect alot of trained disiplined people using it.

Intresting too that already this currency has a name .Punt Nua!!
Wonder has the ol Dublin Mint been working abit late these last few weeks???:eek: Have heard too that if you can get hold of German issued 50 notes you will be fine as well.Dont know how you are supposed to tell this at a glance.Somthing in the serial number that tells where or what country issued it.
Now,IF say some entity really wanted to finish this currency off.Wouldnt now be the time too flood the EU with duff notes??:pac:

Gonzor

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Intresting too that already this currency has a name .Punt Nua!!

Grizzly I dont know if thats the official name. All the newspapers are calling it that- and a fair few people Ive talked to call it that. But I have yet to see anything that says its official.

BTW: I actually read something this week by an "expert" who said the exact same thing you mentioned about putting fake notes into circulation could easily spell the end for euro.

Grizzly 45

You wouldnt see anything about a new Irish currency apart from outright denials and whatnot from Govt until Enda is addressing us again on the telly telling us it is really gone to fuk this time!:eek:.

Guy must have been listening in on my conversations then in Germany three weeks ago.:eek:

Doc Ruby

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Ah the joys of an Irish survival board!:eek:

At the risk of incurring Wrath, I can understand why the restriction exists here as opposed to the zombie survival board. People with our peculiar interests are a living nightmare for civil authorities should a screw come loose, well supported by very recent cases here and in the UK, they're better off calling in the military, as normal resources aren't capable of dealing with it unless they get lucky. So I mean you can see where boards is coming from.

Back on topic, great thread and some good points in the OP.

eth0

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

You wouldnt see anything about a new Irish currency apart from outright denials and whatnot from Govt until Enda is addressing us again on the telly telling us it is really gone to fuk this time!:eek:.

Guy must have been listening in on my conversations then in Germany three weeks ago.:eek:

Its probably being minted already

My apartment has a water meter. It was built in 2007 when FF were only warming us up for water meters. They attempted to install one back home as well around that time and when we confronted them they were 'Oh sorry this is meant for the farmer next to you. This pipe goes to your house? Sorry about this'

Grizzly 45

Doc Ruby wrote: »

At the risk of incurring Wrath, I can understand why the restriction exists here as opposed to the zombie survival board. People with our peculiar interests are a living nightmare for civil authorities should a screw come loose, well supported by very recent cases here and in the UK, they're better off calling in the military, as normal resources aren't capable of dealing with it unless they get lucky. So I mean you can see where boards is coming from.

Back on topic, great thread and some good points in the OP.

OH PLUEEEZZZZZEEEE!!!:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::(
Which well supported cases in the UK are you on about???Please provide some proof of this ludicrious statement!!!
I've been involved on the fringes of the Uk survival movement from the mid 80s and let me assure you it was more paramilitary back then and the UK authorthies never batted an eye lid about it.Thats when a full blown IRA bombing campaign and terrorist war was going on.

Calling the military...Honestly!!Yeah,I'm sure we all have fully stocked up ,tooled up survivalist compounds with full auto and heavy weaponary and people to man it like Waco dont we??:rolleyes::rolleyes:.

NO! I cant see where Boards.ie is coming from,as this whole logic is skewed totally out of reality!!
This oh its all right to talk about stuff on the Zombie forum is fine,as it is only make belive is a typical "Irish stick your head in the sand so your arse can be kicked hard"attitude.Do you think anyone cant figure out the same stuff wether we are talking zombies,or the invasion of world crud??

So point is..If we are talking home defence against scobes thats a no no as it might happen on sur & prep.Yet if we replace scobes with zombies and discuss it on zombie survival its fine as it will never happen because zombies dont exist???
I'd love to see the judges and state prosecutions faces if somone offered up THAT defence in court!!!

Its a total delussional belif by boards.ie legal teams.That if you are talking about killing zombies that is fine,as it is fiction but mention guns on the survivalism form that is a no no!! Honestly if I got that advice from my legal team,Id have fired them years ago!!They need to go and look up the legal meaning of the words Conspircy and collective responsibility.

Simple thing is folks and MODS you might want to take note of this.
IF you dont want to be prosecuted for somthing going wrong then the Zombie survival,survivalism and preps,airsoft and shooting boards are going to have to adhere to some same rules of no discussion of home defence or improvised weaponary and what not.Sauce for the goose and all that.
M aybe this should be in the tinfoil hat thread,but I think this is ludicrous that one side can discuss stuff with impunity as it is fantasy and the other side cant or darent mention it as it might be seen as reality???
What colour sky is on the planet some people inhabit here???

Now can we get back to some sort of reality..Withot worrying about some civil servent jobsworthy getting all flusterd and sending around the Irish army /ERU and ARW to lay seige to us ???:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

Tabnabs

Grizzly45 - If you don't like the rules, don't play the game. There is no free speech on boards.ie. We are all here at their discretion. Please feel free to take yourself elsewhere and start your own forum if this one is not to your liking. This is not up for discussion.

Gonzor

Look what I happened to come up with this morning :eek:

Central Bank says it is not printing punts

The Central Bank of Ireland has said it is not printing Irish punts and is only printing euro.

It is understood that the Central Bank is not in talks with any private printing companies regarding evaluating the need for additional capacity to produce new currency.

In recent weeks, British Chancellor George Osborne said his government had contingency planning in place in the event of the break-up of the euro.

It is understood that authorities in Ireland have given thought to plans in the event there is any significant change to the single European currency.

However, the official position is that remaining within the euro is the only option being actively considered by policy makers and the Department of Finance has not confirmed nor denied that there are any contingency plans in place.

Today's Wall Street Journal reported that the Central Bank is evaluating whether it needs to secure additional access to printing presses in case it has to print new bank notes to support a "reborn" currency.

The US newspaper quotes "people familiar with the matter" and says other central banks have started to weigh contingency plans to prepare for the possibility that countries leave the eurozone or the eurozone breaks up entirely.

The bank said it would not comment on what it called "speculation".

Speaking on RTÉ's Morning Ireland, Seven Investment Management analyst Justin Urquhart Stewart said talk of Ireland printing punts was coming from a number of sources.

He said because the banking crisis in Ireland had already been managed, Ireland could be better off and more cost effective outside the euro.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2011/1208/euro.html

Ive had a quick look and cant seem to find the wall street journal article that sparked the whole thing.... maybe somebody else might have better luck.

eth0

Gonzor wrote: »

Look what I happened to come up with this morning :eek:
http://www.rte.ie/news/2011/1208/euro.html

Ive had a quick look and cant seem to find the wall street journal article that sparked the whole thing.... maybe somebody else might have better luck.

All this 'talk' about bringing the Punt back is just part of the warming up process

Sparks

Gonzor wrote: »

Ive had a quick look and cant seem to find the wall street journal article that sparked the whole thing.... maybe somebody else might have better luck.

You need to use a faster source of news

http://businessetc.thejournal.ie/we-are-not-printing-punts-central-bank-responds-to-wsj-printing-press-report-299710-Dec2011/

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970203413304577084483874422516.html?nr_email_referer=1

Tabnabs

I'm sure there's a thread in the CT forum where someone's uncles brothers wife had told them this months ago. This story has been doing the rounds for quite a while.

Grizzly 45

No smoke without fire an all that!
Any Govt that wasnt considering this would have to be pretty cool or very dumb in the current state of play.
Of course the central bank and Govt sources will deny this totally.Who wants a panic an the sheeple dumping their Euros??After all,WE are te ones paying for ths momentus cock up of our betters.:rolleyes:.

They will deny it until the last minute here.Look at Nov last year when we had Cowen and Co lying up that we didnt need a bail out!!
Simply put,anything you hear on the news or comes out of an Irish politicans mouth belive,do and vote 100% the opposite.;)

bonniebede

Builderfromhell wrote: »

I understand the Roman Empire took years to collapse.

.

just picking up on something said much earlier.

Romae did take a long time to collapse in toto, in but not locally. For example Rome emptied of population (1 million down to 80,000) very quickly, because they lost their very carefully crafted water supply and the place returned to the marsh it once was. Didn't really pick up again for nearly 1500 years, thats a lot of tins of beans.

Mostly urban populations bug out to rural locations by necessity.

Also a disaster could be very local indeed, ie personal... being prepped is making sure you are ready if your job/mortgage/etc goes belly up in some way. It's no consolation to know you are the only person starving in a rich country.:cool:

This week SVP were collecting to help people, and a lot of the story is that they are now trying to help a class of people who have never needed their help before.

What I like about prepping is thinking of ways in which outside input (of wages say, or water, energy etc) could be drastically reduced and I could still keep going.

Help yourself first, I say. (Though charity is very good too)

waterfordham

Going back somewhat to the original posters point. I came across this, this morning.

http://www.samharris.org/blog/item/the-truth-about-violence/

Personally I found it interesting reading.

Principle #1: Avoid dangerous people and dangerous places.
Principle #2: Do not defend your property.
Principle #3: Respond immediately and escape.

Doc Ruby

waterfordham wrote: »

Principle #1: Avoid dangerous people and dangerous places.
Principle #2: Do not defend your property.
Principle #3: Respond immediately and escape.

He's talking about urban street violence there, where the John Q Laws are only a phone call away, rather than survival in the event of a major disaster, so to that extent I might agree with him. Depends entirely on the situation though, some of that stuff might work with some people, other not so much. You'd need to really be there and assess it to make any decisions.

bonniebede

waterfordham wrote: »

Going back somewhat to the original posters point. I came across this, this morning.

http://www.samharris.org/blog/item/the-truth-about-violence/

Personally I found it interesting reading.

Principle #1: Avoid dangerous people and dangerous places.
Principle #2: Do not defend your property.
Principle #3: Respond immediately and escape.

Some very interesting stuff there thanks for posting. Agree with Doc Ruby, though, I think of prepping as also including situations where there is nowhere to escape to , or no rescuers to call upon. That changes things.

I think the argentinian guys blog on living in post collapse Arg. is interesting on this point. (posted on the interesting things sticky). He describes being in the situation of going to his car, and seeing someone there who he knows is loitering with intent as they say. Now he is armed, but he points out that he can't just attck this guy without getting into legal trouble, and yet this is not an occasional problem but a daily one. So he talks about how confidence and a certain attitude and a discrete show of the weapon he carries signals 'i'm not worth the trouble'. he is stuck between the two, there is a lot of social breakdown and unrest, but still not a survivalist free for all sort of scenario. I found it interesting to see how strange and violent and frightening situations can become 'normal' in a horrible way.

Doc Ruby

bonniebede wrote: »

I found it interesting to see how strange and violent and frightening situations can become 'normal' in a horrible way.

I know a couple of Joberg expats as well, and they have some stories to tell! Not for nothing was the flamethrower car alarm invented there.

bonniebede

Doc Ruby wrote: »

I know a couple of Joberg expats as well, and they have some stories to tell! Not for nothing was the flamethrower car alarm invented there.

Now that's something i don't want from santa!

On the other hand, as a bug out vehicle with inbuilt campfire starting capabilities....hmmmm....:rolleyes:

Grizzly 45

A little intresting bit of info from a very reliable inside source in the banking world of Ireland. ,
A large Irish bank that we the citzenry now own, has been re issued with stocks of the old Punt...[Intresting in the fact that they were supposedly all destroyed in 2000:eek:].
He oversaw deliveries of them to just about every branch in his beat of the West...WTF??
So as usual are we are being told half truths.NO they arent printing anything new,as they cant yet due to lack of presses and paper and printing plates...
As well as it would proably scare Merkozy and the EU to death as well!!!:eek:
But they can re issue the old Punt again...If need be...

Getting closer by the day friends!!!

slowburner

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

A little intresting bit of info from a very reliable inside source in the banking world of Ireland. ,
A large Irish bank that we the citzenry now own, has been re issued with stocks of the old Punt...[Intresting in the fact that they were supposedly all destroyed in 2000:eek:].
He oversaw deliveries of them to just about every branch in his beat of the West...WTF??
So as usual are we are being told half truths.NO they arent printing anything new,as they cant yet due to lack of presses and paper and printing plates...
As well as it would proably scare Merkozy and the EU to death as well!!!:eek:
But they can re issue the old Punt again...If need be...

Getting closer by the day friends!!!

I don't doubt you G45, but what is the source of this info?

Grizzly 45

Lets just put it like this ,a "deep throat"whom I've known for years and trust in the banking admin side of things.;)

slowburner

Say no more, my friend.
........but do keep us posted :cool:

Doc Ruby

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Getting closer by the day friends!!!

Doesn't matter, in the unlikely event that the euro fails, they'll be back within the year with a bigger and better alternative, euro II, the revenge of euro. There's way too much wealth and power in a single currency and economic body larger and richer than the United States of America not to. And in fairness it does make sense. Its the non economic tentacles that bother me somewhat, as well as the posturing from Sarkozy.

eth0

I miss the old Punt. Would love to see it back and despite the initial expected drop in value it should make this country competitive again

The euro kind of encourages certain countries to take a back seat, live off borrowed money for a while and not actually produce or do anything useful while codding themselves into thinking they're doing great.