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Heavier Weight - Less Reps or Lighter Weight - More Reps

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  • 01-12-2011 3:06pm
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 2,463 ✭✭✭


    Just wondering whats a better way of lifting for building muscle, on the bench press I'm up to about 50kg for 3 sets of 10 (last set does be a big struggle) but i remember reading somewhere that heavier weights for less reps can be better for building muscle. Anyone got any advice on this??


Comments

  • Closed Accounts Posts: 16,705 ✭✭✭✭Tigger


    Try doing 10 at 50 kg 8 at 52.5kg and 6 at 55kg
    If you can't do the six do as many as you can
    When you get to 6 at 55kg then start with 10 at 52.5kg 8 at 55 kg 6 at 57.5 kg

    Ater the 10 8 6 set do twenty pushups even if you have to do one at a time. Pullups and and chinups are good.

    What weight are you?
    Do you eat enough meat and milk?


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,395 ✭✭✭AntiVirus


    Tigger wrote: »
    Try doing 10 at 50 kg 8 at 52.5kg and 6 at 55kg
    If you can't do the six do as many as you can

    I know this is whats normally sugested but I would have thought doing his sets of 50kg at 10x3 would be more benificial than doing 10@50kg 8@52kg and 6@55kg

    All the 1 Rep Max caculator's say lifting 50kg 10 times gives you a higher 1 Rep Max than lifting 55kg 6 times. Same with 52.5kg@8.

    So even though the weight is going up by a small amount the they're all easier than lifting 10@50kg

    I would have thought that he should move the weight up to 52.5kg and just try do 3 sets of 10. He'll most likely complete the first set, might get upto 8 on the next set and get 7 on the last. Once he's completed the 3 sets at 52.5kg move up to 55kg and repeat.


  • Registered Users Posts: 39,339 ✭✭✭✭Mellor


    Just wondering whats a better way of lifting for building muscle,

    Are you trying to get stronger, or get bigger. Maybe you want both but which is main goal.
    Its not obvious to novices, but the two are different.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 16,705 ✭✭✭✭Tigger


    AntiVirus wrote: »
    I know this is whats normally sugested but I would have thought doing his sets of 50kg at 10x3 would be more benificial than doing 10@50kg 8@52kg and 6@55kg

    All the 1 Rep Max caculator's say lifting 50kg 10 times gives you a higher 1 Rep Max than lifting 55kg 6 times. Same with 52.5kg@8.

    So even though the weight is going up by a small amount the they're all easier than lifting 10@50kg

    I would have thought that he should move the weight up to 52.5kg and just try do 3 sets of 10. He'll most likely complete the first set, might get upto 8 on the next set and get 7 on the last. Once he's completed the 3 sets at 52.5kg move up to 55kg and repeat.

    he's benching 50kg any progressive loading is going to increase that quite quickly


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,463 ✭✭✭Antomus Prime


    Tigger wrote: »
    Try doing 10 at 50 kg 8 at 52.5kg and 6 at 55kg
    If you can't do the six do as many as you can
    When you get to 6 at 55kg then start with 10 at 52.5kg 8 at 55 kg 6 at 57.5 kg

    Ater the 10 8 6 set do twenty pushups even if you have to do one at a time. Pullups and and chinups are good.

    What weight are you?
    Do you eat enough meat and milk?

    I'm 234 pounds, just under 6'2"....... I eat a shít load of chicken and tuna, and I throw in steak once or twice a week too and I drink a bit of milk, but get the extra protein from shakes. I'll give the 10-8-6 a try and see how I get on.

    Cheers Tigger
    AntiVirus wrote: »
    I know this is whats normally sugested but I would have thought doing his sets of 50kg at 10x3 would be more benificial than doing 10@50kg 8@52kg and 6@55kg

    All the 1 Rep Max caculator's say lifting 50kg 10 times gives you a higher 1 Rep Max than lifting 55kg 6 times. Same with 52.5kg@8.

    So even though the weight is going up by a small amount the they're all easier than lifting 10@50kg

    I would have thought that he should move the weight up to 52.5kg and just try do 3 sets of 10. He'll most likely complete the first set, might get upto 8 on the next set and get 7 on the last. Once he's completed the 3 sets at 52.5kg move up to 55kg and repeat.

    Tieing that into what Trigger said, Maybe I'll mix it up, one day do the 10-8-6 then the next day do the 10x3.... Or actually would it be better to do say 2/3 weeks of each and see which way I move up quicker??

    Cheers Virus
    Mellor wrote: »
    Are you trying to get stronger, or get bigger. Maybe you want both but which is main goal.
    Its not obvious to novices, but the two are different.

    Yeah I know there's a massive difference in the two, when I was in the gym (use home gym now) I used to see guys who were a lot bigger than me struggle with weights much lighter than mine.

    Ideally I want to gain in size and strength. so whatever would be the best for combining both goals.....

    Cheers Mellor


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 16,705 ✭✭✭✭Tigger


    i'f i were you (i'm 6'2" 231lbs so i'm not that far off) i'd do the 10 8 6 working to get weight on the bar
    do the pushups
    start doing pullups (i know they're hard but they will grow you)
    and add in shoulder presses 10 8 6

    but

    you have to start deadlifting and squatting if you want to be strong and if you are you're size and strong you're gonna be big

    i'd split the bench daay and the squat and deadlift day aadd in your curls or whatever you like doing to each work out three times a week and alternate the two days


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,395 ✭✭✭AntiVirus


    Tigger wrote: »
    he's benching 50kg any progressive loading is going to increase that quite quickly

    The loading will only increase when he can complete all 3 sets same as the loading will only increase when he can complete the 3 sets the other way?

    Even though he's droping the reps. I just don't think the weights + sets + reps in your example compare to the weights + sets + reps that he is currently doing. I'd say he could do that now. Even the total of weights lifted is much lower.

    Why not just lift 55kg x 6 reps x 3 sets now?

    The reason why I'm interested in this is a started out working on 10x4 and have worked my way up to the 32.5kg dumbells now. Once I completed all the sets I increased the weight. I think it's gives a good balance of strength and endurance.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 20 briano1984


    i'd agree with what tigger says. keep up with the 10 @ 50 and then 8 @52.5 and so. you'll notice very quickly that you'll be able to progress and lift more.

    you'll also need to work other body parts to help improve. everyone is different but i would do one full body part one day and that would be it for the week. eg chest on monday, legs tuesday, shoulders thurs and back fri. triceps and biceps can do done at end of sessions.

    try get high reps in, so aim for hitting ten on first set and if moving up in weight as close to that as possible.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,463 ✭✭✭Antomus Prime


    Tigger wrote: »
    i'f i were you (i'm 6'2" 231lbs so i'm not that far off) i'd do the 10 8 6 working to get weight on the bar
    do the pushups
    start doing pullups (i know they're hard but they will grow you)
    and add in shoulder presses 10 8 6

    but

    you have to start deadlifting and squatting if you want to be strong and if you are you're size and strong you're gonna be big

    i'd split the bench daay and the squat and deadlift day aadd in your curls or whatever you like doing to each work out three times a week and alternate the two days

    I only used the bench press as an example, I do my whole body spread out over the week, monday would be chest and arms, wednesday back and shoulders, and friday legs and abs. I deadlift about 65kg now and squat about 40/45kg.

    And in relation to the pull ups, I cant even do one... I'm a heavy guy so I think I'm gonna have to just work my ass off on the pulldowns until im nearly pulling down my body weight, then start on the pull ups.
    briano1984 wrote: »
    i'd agree with what tigger says. keep up with the 10 @ 50 and then 8 @52.5 and so. you'll notice very quickly that you'll be able to progress and lift more.

    you'll also need to work other body parts to help improve. everyone is different but i would do one full body part one day and that would be it for the week. eg chest on monday, legs tuesday, shoulders thurs and back fri. triceps and biceps can do done at end of sessions.

    try get high reps in, so aim for hitting ten on first set and if moving up in weight as close to that as possible.

    As abovie I work out all my body parts, the bench press was just an example. I'll defo give what you guys said a shot... cheers for all the advice guys, really appreciate it.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,395 ✭✭✭AntiVirus


    And in relation to the pull ups, I cant even do one... I'm a heavy guy so I think I'm gonna have to just work my ass off on the pulldowns until im nearly pulling down my body weight, then start on the pull ups.

    Some gyms have an assisted pull up machine where you can counter balance your weight by adding weight to it, as you get better you can remove the weight.

    A lot of people can easily pull their own body weight on the lat pull down machine but can't do a pull up. Have a look around your gym, there may be one there.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,395 ✭✭✭AntiVirus


    briano1984 wrote: »
    try get high reps in, so aim for hitting ten on first set and if moving up in weight as close to that as possible.

    Thats different, thats going to failure on each set and then increasing the weight.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 16,705 ✭✭✭✭Tigger


    I only used the bench press as an example, I do my whole body spread out over the week, monday would be chest and arms, wednesday back and shoulders, and friday legs and abs. I deadlift about 65kg now and squat about 40/45kg.

    And in relation to the pull ups, I cant even do one... I'm a heavy guy so I think I'm gonna have to just work my ass off on the pulldowns until im nearly pulling down my body weight, then start on the pull ups.



    As abovie I work out all my body parts, the bench press was just an example. I'll defo give what you guys said a shot... cheers for all the advice guys, really appreciate it.

    do asssisted pullups and do negatives
    pullups are important


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,463 ✭✭✭Antomus Prime


    Im not in a gym anymore, I have a multigym so doing the assisted pull ups isnt an option, should I just start trying to do them and see how I get on??
    AntiVirus wrote: »
    Thats different, thats going to failure on each set and then increasing the weight.

    I work to fail on alot of excercises, usually just on the last set though.... Or every now and then I'll do a Work to fail Drop set, starting as heavy as I can lift and then lowering the weights for every set until I either run out of weights or physical ability to lift anymore
    Tigger wrote: »
    do negatives

    What are negatives?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 16,705 ✭✭✭✭Tigger


    Im not in a gym anymore, I have a multigym so doing the assisted pull ups isnt an option, should I just start trying to do them and see how I get on??
    use a chair for one leg and help your self up then lower as slowly as you can with no help
    you'll get there if you try as i csaaid i'm as heavy as you so i know how hard they feel at the start but they are worth it


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,463 ✭✭✭Antomus Prime


    Tigger wrote: »
    use a chair for one leg and help your self up then lower as slowly as you can with no help
    you'll get there if you try as i csaaid i'm as heavy as you so i know how hard they feel at the start but they are worth it

    Actually a really good idea, ill defo get stuck into it so.

    Cheers


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,395 ✭✭✭AntiVirus


    Here's another good way to get into pull ups, if they're a bit hard at the start try without the chair.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,463 ✭✭✭Antomus Prime


    Cheers Virus, better make sure my hands aren't clammy before I start!! lol


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 16,705 ✭✭✭✭Tigger


    AntiVirus wrote: »
    The loading will only increase when he can complete all 3 sets same as the loading will only increase when he can complete the 3 sets the other way?

    Even though he's droping the reps. I just don't think the weights + sets + reps in your example compare to the weights + sets + reps that he is currently doing. I'd say he could do that now. Even the total of weights lifted is much lower.

    Why not just lift 55kg x 6 reps x 3 sets now?

    The reason why I'm interested in this is a started out working on 10x4 and have worked my way up to the 32.5kg dumbells now. Once I completed all the sets I increased the weight. I think it's gives a good balance of strength and endurance.

    because its about the central nervous system and the muscles joints and ligaments
    they need to increase together
    he'll ramp up to 10*55 8*57.5 6*60 in no time

    i lift 10*x 8*x+20 6*x+25 4*x+30 2*x+32.5 1*pr 1*pr+2.5 cos the first time you lift pr+2.5 is when it feels heaviest

    its not all about total work done its about cns and muscle joint ligament training

    you curl 2 32.5kg dumbells ?


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,395 ✭✭✭AntiVirus


    Tigger wrote: »
    because its about the central nervous system and the muscles joints and ligaments
    they need to increase together
    he'll ramp up to 10*55 8*57.5 6*60 in no time

    i lift 10*x 8*x+20 6*x+25 4*x+30 2*x+32.5 1*pr 1*pr+2.5 cos the first time you lift pr+2.5 is when it feels heaviest

    its not all about total work done its about cns and muscle joint ligament training

    I see, I'll have to change my routine and see how it goes for me. I've seen this before but didn't understand how it would work.
    Tigger wrote: »
    you curl 2 32.5kg dumbells ?

    Good god no! I was talking about dumbell chest presses :D


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,603 ✭✭✭Scuba Ste


    Tigger wrote: »
    because its about the central nervous system and the muscles joints and ligaments
    they need to increase together
    he'll ramp up to 10*55 8*57.5 6*60 in no time

    i lift 10*x 8*x+20 6*x+25 4*x+30 2*x+32.5 1*pr 1*pr+2.5 cos the first time you lift pr+2.5 is when it feels heaviest

    its not all about total work done its about cns and muscle joint ligament training

    you curl 2 32.5kg dumbells ?

    How does ramping weight differ in its effect on the CNS compared flat sets? All strength training is neural to some degree.

    I don't think complicating training with ramped sets is any better than flat sets for a beginner.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 16,705 ✭✭✭✭Tigger


    Scuba Ste wrote: »
    How does ramping weight differ in its effect on the CNS compared flat sets? All strength training is neural to some degree.

    I don't think complicating training with ramped sets is any better than flat sets for a beginner.

    but you do ramped sets in your log?


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,917 ✭✭✭Barry.Oglesby


    Op don't mind everyone else, try this:

    Take your bodyweight and mutliply it x2

    Now take that number and subtract your age

    Now divide that by 2

    Take that number and do a set 1*7

    If you feel neurally fatigued by that take that weight as your baseline and add 5% to the bar

    Else if you don't feel neurally fatigued, more muscularly fatigued, then this ISN'T your baseline, you need more core strength in your abs and glutes. Try drinking more milk.

    Now do 2 more sets at the original weight minus 10%, give or take 5%.

    At this stage of training it's not about how much your cns can handle, but more about how much structurally your body can lift in multijoint exercises for your core without feeling too neurally fatigued. Your ligament joints might not be able to handle the excessive volume in your hips. Fish oils fish oils fish oils.

    Now we're at the top set, ad this is very metabolically important. Don't do it.

    Remember to have your core straight, back up, hips down, hips up, drink milk, what's your diet like?

    After you've done your top set, do your top set. This is pyramids, done in a conjugate method, but flat.

    Best of luck with your training!


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,603 ✭✭✭Scuba Ste


    Tigger wrote: »
    but you do ramped sets in your log?

    Sometimes I do, mostly I don't but it's got nothing to do with my nervous system. I'm just lazy and it takes less time to work up to a max set than to do multiple heavy sets. I compete in sport where being able to lift one heavy rep is more important than multiple moderate ones so again working up to a heavy set works for me. And there's other reasons I do it too but none relate to my CNS.

    I don't think you should complicate things until you need to and most posters here will never need to. Unless you want to for the craic, then do whatever you want.


  • Registered Users Posts: 172 ✭✭diegowhite


    Generally if it's building size you are after, research and what the biggest guys who are going after size use is 3-4 work set of 6-10 reps, 1-2 of those sets going to failure.

    I would start with that and modify from there as not everyone's body reacts the same to that stimulus to gain size. And like others have said diet is 50% of the game so make sure that's taken care of to. Best way to know it's working for size is measure the body parts you want to get bigger on today, measure them again in 3-4 weeks, if the measurements ain't going up and your diet is good then modify rep/sets range either lower or higher


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 16,705 ✭✭✭✭Tigger


    i agree its tried and tested


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