Leinster V Cardiff - Friday RDS 8.05pm;live on TG4/ BBC 2 wales

durkadurka

LEINSTER:
15: Isa Nacewa
14: David Kearney
13: Eoin O'Malley
12: Fergus McFadden
11: Fionn Carr
10: Ian Madigan
9: Isaac Boss
1: Cian Healy
2: Richardt Strauss
3: Nathan White
4: Leo Cullen CAPTAIN
5: Steven Sykes
6: Rhys Ruddock
7: Shane Jennings
8: Sean O'Brien
REPLACEMENTS:
16: Sean Cronin
17: Heinke van der Merwe
18: Mike Ross
19: Damian Browne
20: Leo Auva'a
21: Eoin Reddan
22: Jonathan Sexton
23: Rob Kearney
REFEREE: Andrew Macpherson (SRU), ASSISTANT REFEREES: Leo Colgan, Peter Roche (both IRFU), 4th OFFICIAL: Dermot Blake (Leinster Rugby Referees), 5th OFFICIAL: Arthur Lynch (Leinster Rugby Referees), TMO: Seamus Flannery (IRFU)


Sykes is back which is great. Other internationals rotated, and EOM gets another go at 13.

Good selection. Nice to see madigan get another crack at it.

Plenty on the bench just in case....

chancer12

Great to see Isa back in the no 15 jersey, delighted to see Madigan get another chance at 10, great bench also

thomond2006

CARDIFF BLUES:
15 Chris Czekaj 14 Richard Mustoe 13 Casey Laulala 12 Gavin Evans 11 Tom James 10 Ceri Sweeney 9 Richie Rees
8 Xavier Rush 7 Josh Navidi 6 Maama Molitika 5 Paul Tito (C) 4 Cory Hill 3 Taufaao Filise 2 Ryan Tyrrell 1 John Yapp

Replacements: 16 Marc Breeze 17 Nathan Trevett 18 Sam Hobbs 19 Macauley Cook 20 Michael Paterson 21 Lewis Jones 22 Gareth Davies 23 Dafydd Hewitt

Leinster by 10 I reckon.

totallegend

Happy enough with that team, looking forward to seeing O'Brien at 8 too.

Cardiff have named the strongest side available to them, this could be tight.

15 Chris Czekaj
14 Richard Mustoe
13 Casey Laulala
12 Gavin Evans
11 Tom James
10 Ceri Sweeney
9 Richie Rees
8 Xavier Rush
7 Josh Navidi
6 Maama Molitika
5 Paul Tito (C)
4 Cory Hill
3 Taufaao Filise
2 Ryan Tyrrell
1 John Yapp

16 Marc Breeze 17 Nathan Trevett 18 Sam Hobbs 19 Macauley Cook 20 Michael Paterson 21 Lewis Jones 22 Gareth Davies 23 Dafydd Hewitt

leftofthedial

Another interesting selection. No Toner, Heaslip, Fitz, but not worried at all. One or two hiccups aside Joe's rotation policy is really paying off this season. Madigan is coming along nicely. Boss and Rhys will have him well protected.

CatFromHue

Yeah it will be interesting to see how SOB gets on at 8.

mar-z

Really happy to see that centre pairing. I don't think Darcy and McFadden work too well as they are very similar. But really think this combination has a lot of potential.

Good to see Madigan and Carr get runs out too.

molloyjh

A little worried about MacPherson. But the team for me is spot on. The young guns did well enough during the RWC and they are backed up here by Healy, Cullen, Jenno, SOB, Boss and Ferg. Then there's that bench, which is a fantastic one to release in the final 20.

The Cardiff team looks strong enough, but I can't see past a home win. And if the first XV manage 2 tries (which is quite possible) and Joe starts to bring in the big guns around the 60 minute mark I can see a bonus point win too. :cool:

iamjenko

Exciting looking selection, lots of lads there who are coming along nicely and could be making the back bone of the team for years to come!

GerM

Three starts, three different numbers on McFadden's back.

There is a fifth dimension beyond that which is known to man. It is a dimension as vast as space and as timeless as infinity. It is the middle ground between light and shadow, between science and superstition, and it lies between the pit of man's fears and the summit of his knowledge. This is the dimension of imagination. It is an area which we call "The Utility Zone".

geekington

Thats is a seriously impressive line up! Hope Sykes goes well and I for one am very excited about the front row - is there a more mobile unit around??

Must admit the Cardiff team looks like a bit of a mish mash - don't recognise many names but I have a feeling it could be a cracking game!

Webbs

Think it will be a comfortable win for Leinster, they should be looking at possibly getting try bonus point as Cardiff team is seriously weakened with lots of 2nd string players.

ongarite

Looking forward to this game. Pretty strong Leinster team, good to see Jennings start too.

CIARAN_BOYLE

I wonder who will be kicking for Leinster McFadden or Nacewa

Good to see SOB getting a shot at 8.

GerM

Webbs wrote: »

Think it will be a comfortable win for Leinster, they should be looking at possibly getting try bonus point as Cardiff team is seriously weakened with lots of 2nd string players.

Cardiff will put up a stubborn enough test. They are missing important players, certainly, but they're not going to roll over. That's about half of their HEC side there and we probably have about half of our HEC side out too. I think we'll win as we've better depth and home advantage but a BP would be a (very welcome) surprise to me.

There has been a lot of comment and discussion around Sykes in recent weeks. This is the game where he has to step up. It's his opportunity to show everyone that he has the ability and attitude to be part of a HEC contending team. If he can't step up tomorrow night, he's in trouble because we have players that will give 100% commitment and effort if he doesn't. He has the talent, we're in no doubt about that. Lets hope he shows what he can do.

.ak

As a Leinster Season Ticket holder, I must say we're getting great value for our money with this selection policy. I remember when Chieka was here there'd be many a weekend of face-palming at the same old selections. Thanks Joe.

GerM

.ak wrote: »

As a Leinster Season Ticket holder, I must say we're getting great value for our money with this selection policy. I remember when Chieka was here there'd be many a weekend of face-palming at the same old selections. Thanks Joe.

Have to say, I don't remember it being like that at all. I'd be surprised if you went through his last couple of seasons at Leinster and found a Pro12 selection being the same in two games in a row. The likes of Berne, Girve, MOK, Chris Keane, Van der Linde, Jackman, Horgan and Ross all got a fair bit of game time and rotation despite not being first choice generally. We also saw the introduction and debut appearances of plenty of the younger players under Cheika as the academy began to produce. SOB, McFadden, EOM, Dave Kearney, Healy, Fitz, McFadden, Madigan, McKinley, Toner, Ruddock and Ryan all would have come through to make full starts under Cheika's guidance.

durkadurka

Cheika used to always play a strong team for home games - most of the experimenting was done away as far as I can remember.

Podge_irl

Cheiks was very much a full strength team or second string team man though. He didn't mix and match anywhere near as much as Schmidt from my memory.

smurphy29

We will learn a lot about Eoin O'Malley this week. If he can do the business against a quality (and physical) opponent in Casey Laulala we can start to believe he's the real deal, and possibly start thinking about him in international colours.

Podge_irl

GerM wrote: »

Three starts, three different numbers on McFadden's back.

There is a fifth dimension beyond that which is known to man. It is a dimension as vast as space and as timeless as infinity. It is the middle ground between light and shadow, between science and superstition, and it lies between the pit of man's fears and the summit of his knowledge. This is the dimension of imagination. It is an area which we call "The Utility Zone".

In fairness, whatever people's view on whether McFadden is good enough to make it as an international, Leinster would be screwed without him.

GerM

Podge_irl wrote: »

In fairness, whatever people's view on whether McFadden is good enough to make it as an international, Leinster would be screwed without him.

Yup. Wouldn't disagree. The fact that he not only can play 11-14 but can goal kick very well is a massive plus. Any side in the AP, T14 or Pro12 would love to have him. I love seeing him kick at goal just because we're so dead set on the outhalf kicking in this country. I can think of a few Pro12 games that we simply wouldn't have won if he wasn't on the pitch.

I feel sorry for him in ways though as he is now, to my mind, the dreaded utility player. JS has played him three games in a row now in different positions so must see him as extremely versatile also. Without being able to perform to a top class level in any one position over a period of time he will, unfortunately, always struggle to find a place in the Leinster team. His best hope now is probably as a replacement for D'Arcy and he'll have to start upping his performances there to get that shirt from such an established player. If he doesn't nail down a position soon he'll be faced with a situation where the youngsters that are specialists in their positions will be seen as better options for the first XV.

Webbs

GerM wrote: »

Cardiff will put up a stubborn enough test. They are missing important players, certainly, but they're not going to roll over. That's about half of their HEC side there and we probably have about half of our HEC side out too. I think we'll win as we've better depth and home advantage but a BP would be a (very welcome) surprise to me.

.

With players out through injury and Wales call ups the difference is that Leinster are rotating players and therefore leaving the bench strong.
Cardiff dont have the squad depth and are putting lot of 2nd stringers in starting lineup and leaving 3rd choices on the bench. Agree Cardiff will be stubborn for 50-60mins but then the benches will be emptied and there will be huge gulf in class

Quint2010

Where is Dominic Ryan? Is he injured?

danthefan

Quint2010 wrote: »

Where is Dominic Ryan? Is he injured?

Yes.

I like that selection. It's pretty strong, gives guys gametime who might be a bit short of it, good backline should score some tries.

ambid

On many match threads there would be concern expressed about Madigan at fly half, especially against an experienced campaigner like Sweeney. It shows his progress and form that nobody (so far!) is questioning his selection ahead of Sexton against a good Cardiff team.

Last year Sexton was one of Leinster's irreplacables. This year it feels like we have another viable option. Madigan is clearly working hard at his game and making progress so fair play to him.

durkadurka

Also remember we got berqwuist as 10/12 cover and haven't really missed him so far. Quite a testament to Madigan.

.ak

ambid wrote: »

On mnay match threads there would be concern expressed about Madigan at fly half, especially against an experienced campaigner like Sweeney. It shows his progress and form that nobody (so far!) is questioning his selection ahead of Sexton against a good Cardiff team.

Last year Sexton was one of Leinster's irreplacables. This year it feels like we have another viable option. Madigan is clearly working hard at his game and making progress so fair play to him.

Also he's quite an exciting player to watch. Definitely a fan favorite.

Hype710

Once he masters fly half play I hope Leinster give Madigan some game time at 9, even if it is a couple of years down the line. He's got probably the best pass in the Leinster squad and his physique is suited to it. Would provide great versatility and would open up a spot on the bench allowing both a centre and a back three player. With Boss and Reddan the wrong side of 30 it would mean we wouldn't need to sign an NIQ when they retire.

irishbucsfan

Madigan must be pushing his way towards the Ireland #3 spot now.

danthefan

Doesn't goal kick, so no.

durkadurka

I don't think he's near international standard yet but he'd be ahead of keatley IMO and catching up on ihumph.

thomond2006

I'd definitely have him ahead of Humphreys.

WeeBushy

He's not international standard yet, but he still can claim to be near Ireland's third best OH.

vinny chase

Hype710 wrote: »

Once he masters fly half play I hope Leinster give Madigan some game time at 9, even if it is a couple of years down the line. He's got probably the best pass in the Leinster squad and his physique is suited to it. Would provide great versatility and would open up a spot on the bench allowing both a centre and a back three player. With Boss and Reddan the wrong side of 30 it would mean we wouldn't need to sign an NIQ when they retire.

I think this is nothing short of ridiculous.

I can never understand this idea of rugby fans constantly talking about a desire to convert good players in a position (where we're not exactly overstocked with good players) into other positions.

And, of all the positions; the transition to becoming a nine is huge. It's a position where a pass, a break, kicking ability and that is only half the battle. Judgement, experience, defensive organisation, and about fifty other aspects of play are deeply specific to the position. It's not like converting a ten into a twelve, or a twelve into a thirteen.

I know the French have a few players who play both positions; but the very nature of their game encourages flexibility between the positions from an early age. We played French sides as far back as U-14's where their half backs would interchange. To think Ian Madigan could start playing 9 at this stage to the standard expected is simply not even remotely realistic.

Podge_irl

danthefan wrote: »

Doesn't goal kick, so no.

It certainly counts against him, but I think he does goal kick, Leinster are just trying to take the pressure off him as a new player. If he has aspirations to be Ireland fly half though, he will have to start taking the kicks in games.

Podge_irl

vinny chase wrote: »

I think this is nothing short of ridiculous.

I can never understand this idea of rugby fans constantly talking about a desire to convert good players in a position (where we're not exactly overstocked with good players) into other positions.

And, of all the positions; the transition to becoming a nine is huge. It's a position where a pass, a break, kicking ability and that is only half the battle. Judgement, experience, defensive organisation, and about fifty other aspects of play are deeply specific to the position. It's not like converting a ten into a twelve, or a twelve into a thirteen.

It's interesting that the positions seem much more interchangeable in France. Whether that's just due to the players they have available or their approach to the game is a different question.

vinny chase

Podge_irl wrote: »

It certainly counts against him, but I think he does goal kick, Leinster are just trying to take the pressure off him as a new player. If he has aspirations to be Ireland fly half though, he will have to start taking the kicks in games.

He certainly is a good kicker. He kicked for the Irish U-20's, Leinster U-20's and in Blackrock. The problem with him for Leinster is that he's always on the field with either Nacewa or McFadden, who are rated as superior goal kickers.

CIARAN_BOYLE

Podge_irl wrote: »

It certainly counts against him, but I think he does goal kick, Leinster are just trying to take the pressure off him as a new player. If he has aspirations to be Ireland fly half though, he will have to start taking the kicks in games.

I think its time to stop 'taking the pressure off'. After 30 caps it should be time for him to step up ahead of Nacewa.

vinny chase

Podge_irl wrote: »

It's interesting that the positions seem much more interchangeable in France. Whether that's just due to the players they have available or their approach to the game is a different question.

Yeah, I agree. I think it's an approach issue first and foremost. It clearly helps generate quicker ball, and I've played against French sides underage who seemed to almost be playing a 'right' and 'left' style scrum half situation between their two half backs.

Hype710

I don't think its realistic though as he'll need all the gametime he can get at 10 to ever become an established contender there. I'm just envious of the French that they have guys who are interchangeable between the two key decision making roles and whose skill sets are more rounded. I think he'd be an excellent 9/10 but at this stage its unrealistic.

Podge_irl

CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »

I think its time to stop 'taking the pressure off'. After 30 caps it should be time for him to step up ahead of Nacewa.

I tend to agree. I never really understood Nacewa kicking ahead of him, from what I recall it was something he himself struggled with when he first got here. The McFadden issue is trickier. I would be of the opinion that McFadden is one of the most naturally talented goal kickers in Ireland. He has a very relaxed style and an excellent kicking percentage - all the more impressive when he doesn't so it regularly. Most players should be encouraged to take it up like him. If Ireland's 14 can kick better then their 10, then the 14 should be kicking.

danthefan

Podge_irl wrote: »

It certainly counts against him, but I think he does goal kick, Leinster are just trying to take the pressure off him as a new player. If he has aspirations to be Ireland fly half though, he will have to start taking the kicks in games.

Not in games he doesn't, which is the whole issue.

vinny chase

danthefan wrote: »

Not in games he doesn't, which is the whole issue.

Yeah, but he is a goal kicker. He is probably kicking as much in training as Sexton, Nacewa & McFadden.

As I said before, he's kicked for Blackrock College, Leinster & Ireland Schools, Leinster & Ireland U-20's and Leinster A. He's a very capable goal kicker; it's just a matter of getting the opportunity in games. It's not like a guy who might be a good kicker, he definitely has the ability.

Podge_irl

danthefan wrote: »

Not in games he doesn't, which is the whole issue.

It is the issue, but not kicking in games and not "being a kicker" are fundamentally different things. As far as I can gather it is a skill of his and hopefully we'll see him do it in games soon.

GerM

I think we're getting way ahead of ourselves in relation to Madigan. He has 13 senior starts to his name and is still a long way from where he needs to be if I was going to be genuinely comfortable with him starting a crunch HEC game let alone being in contention for international selection. He's a gifted runner and passer but there's more to playing 10 to a high level than that. His game management is still lacking significantly. His kicking from hand needs work as does his decision making. That will come with experience and I'm seriously impressed how far he has come in the past year but he still has some distance to go. I don't think a match goes by where he doesn't make a very noticeable mistake in his kicking from hand such as a bad kick out on the full or missing touch from a penalty. I think he's about 2 years away from being brought into the Irish training squad. He needs to tighten up his game and eradicate these errors. He certainly doesn't lack natural ability. However, I can say the exact same about Ian Humphreys or Ryan Lamb. He's actually not totally dissimilar to those guys currently but the one difference is he has shown the ability to develop and improve the weak points in his game and I've no doubt he will continue to do so.

Also, yes, he has to start to goal kick soon ahead of the likes of Nacewa if he wants to progress; this is Ireland and if you don't kick, you don't progress as a 10. He does kick but if he doesn't show he can be trusted in big provincial games he'll struggle to be go much further. And no, lets not take a very promising player in a position we're not overly blessed in and try and turn him into something else entirely where he wouldn't be able to move a backline or squeeze through midfield gaps.

danthefan

Podge_irl wrote: »

It is the issue, but not kicking in games and not "being a kicker" are fundamentally different things. As far as I can gather it is a skill of his and hopefully we'll see him do it in games soon.

I agree. I said he doesn't kick. I never said anything about being a kicker.

durkadurka

This probably says more about our ( Ireland's) lack of depth at ten than anything .

Podge_irl

danthefan wrote: »

I agree. I said he doesn't kick. I never said anything about being a kicker.

Well then yeah, it's going to hurt him. Realistically though he's nowhere near the Ireland team at the moment so it's irrelevant right now.

I think the reason people are jumping the gun with Madigan is simply the quite obvious difference in his game from this time last year. If he can progress as he has done over the past 12 months, he'll be a contender for an Ireland position within 18months imo.

I remember plumping for McKinley at 10 every time ahead of Madigan last year, as felt that they were just on very different paths of progression. Unfortunately that now seems strangely apt, but in a completely different way than I'd expected.

CIARAN_BOYLE

Deleted User wrote: »

I think the reason people are jumping the gun with Madigan is simply the quite obvious difference in his game from this time last year. If he can progress as he has done over the past 12 months, he'll be a contender for an Ireland position within 18months imo.

I remember plumping for McKinley at 10 every time ahead of Madigan last year, as felt that they were just on very different paths of progression. Unfortunately that now seems strangely apt, but in a completely different way than I'd expected.

True this time last year I felt that McKinley was potentially a very good 10 that would end up leaving Leinster for gametime while I thought Madigan was a guy with decent potential that showed attributes needed for a couple of positions and could end up as a bit of a utility back covering 10/12/15