Palmerstown house

brians947

Hi All. Anybody play palmerstown house lately. Was just wondering what sort of nick it is in. Thinking of playing it next week. Anybody know what they are charging these days.

Dr_Colossus

I was going to play it last week, played it once before in Aug and was really impressed, great course and facilities and was in great condition the Sat I played. Not sure what the condition would be like this time of year so rang them last week to see what they could offer for a midweek round for two people.

Normal winter green fee rates are a staggering €50 and best they could offer me was €40 Mon to Wed. When I asked about possible open days they advised they used to run one midweek but weren't getting enough uptake so had to cancel them. When I inquired about food after they informed me the bar and restaurant was closed so if I wanted food I'd have to source that elsewhere, think they mentioned there was a pub nearby.

Pushed them on the €40 and said if they could improve on that I'd play, I'd only paid €45 in Aug for a Saturday when everything was open and course was in great condition. I'd told them as much but they said they still couldn't improve on the €40 rate. The timesheet was practically empty but there didn't seem overly concerned about getting another two playing and advised that if they didn't have sufficient numbers they'd just close the course that day. I told them they left me no choice but to go elsewhere and when I advised them of The Heritage winter warmer special of €35 for a round of golf and a €10 voucher for lunch they just said that was a great deal and they couldn't match it.

Hi

Played a couple of weeks back. Lovely course, greens in great nick. The ground was soggy in places and bunkers ubplayable.

Besides that really nice course, would be a shame if it went to the wall.

Leslie91

Hi wrote: »

Played a couple of weeks back. Lovely course, greens in great nick. The ground was soggy in places and bunkers ubplayable.

Besides that really nice course, would be a shame if it went to the wall.

Same as Hi, played it only a couple of weeks ago. Was wettish but otherwise great. Apparently somebody is in to buy it so hoping membership might be possible sooner rather than later.

brians947

Rang them and got the same spill. 50 euro but can do it for 40. 40 euro for a winter green fee. No thanks. Got Luttrestown for 20 and then 10 euro for a golfers grill. No thats a good deal. Love playing luttrestown.

tang1

brians947 wrote: »

Rang them and got the same spill. 50 euro but can do it for 40. 40 euro for a winter green fee. No thanks.

Crazy money for a winter green fee in this day and age, dont care how good the course is. There only kidding themselves looking for that money.

Dr_Colossus

tang1 wrote: »

Crazy money for a winter green fee in this day and age, dont care how good the course is. There only kidding themselves looking for that money.

Agreed and that's why I didn't go. As it turned out The Heritage was class, especially the tee boxes which were better than most greens. Tee to green was amazing, rough a bit soggy and bunkers rock solid like concrete but if you played rake and place it wasn't an issue. Would definitely go back especially given the value in comparison to Palmerstown House.

mags1962

Played Palmerstown PGA course many times over the last few years, before Mansfield went bust, and even enquired about membership which was too expensive at the time and think it is a beautiful course but has fallen on hard times. Would love it to be bought/taken over and membership opened up at a reasonable rate.
The location makes it perfect for a lot of people to get to easily, main roads all the way.

tamloc

In my opinion Plamerstown house is the "Best parkland course in the Country". Just a shame they keep their prices out of the reach of most golfers. Come on guys €25 for winter golf = full timesheets!

brians947

Well played Luttrellstown today and course was in great nick. Greens spiked but most courses will be like that this time of year. Golfers grill for 10 euro was lovely and very filling. Would go back again anytime for the price.

Bogieman

tang1 wrote: »

Crazy money for a winter green fee in this day and age, dont care how good the course is. There only kidding themselves looking for that money.

I think €40 for course of this quality is a great deal!!If it was anywhere else in europe it would cost at least twice that!

westbuteast

Bogieman wrote: »

tang1 wrote: »

Crazy money for a winter green fee in this day and age, dont care how good the course is. There only kidding themselves looking for that money.

I think €40 for course of this quality is a great deal!!If it was anywhere else in europe it would cost at least twice that!

Can't understand why Palmerstown won't bring down the rate to increase revenue. Is it just a case of trying to remain in the upper tier of courses and still try to attract the now long lost joe soap with money to burn. There just isn't room for all these so called high class courses anymore. People don't have 2 and 3 thousand to join clubs and most people woundnt even dream of spending more than 30 euro on golf anymore. People are looking for value for money the last thing you want to hear is " oh I can't go below 40 euro and then say go somewhere else". I had the same problem myself I looked book four ball we agreed if we could get it for 30 we would play needless to say they didn't budge. 120 missed out on and it seemed they just didn't care. What bugs me most is the possible revenue the place could take in and perhaps even create a few jobs around the place.

celtic_oz

This property is in NAMA and now your tax money keeps it afloat.

There is no motivation for the guys running this to make money, in fact no golfers probably means go home early. They get paid either way.

There should be a way of reporting inept management.

westbuteast

celtic_oz wrote: »

This property is in NAMA and now your tax money keeps it afloat.

There is no motivation for the guys running this to make money, in fact no golfers probably means go home early. They get paid either way.

There should be a way of reporting inept management.

Well I'm a mature student so your tax is keepin me goin as well but I did pay my fair share of tax when I was working. NAMA dont care either it will just tell you the foresight these so called receiver ship companies and managers have. None what so ever. All they see is the money it's costing to Open the gate-in the morning not the money it may generate.

scubapro

For those who are not aware, Palmerstown is now on teetimes and can be got for 35 euro sat and sun till March. Played there myself last weekend, smashing course.

S

westbuteast

scubapro wrote: »

For those who are not aware, Palmerstown is now on teetimes and can be got for 35 euro sat and sun till March. Played there myself last weekend, smashing course.

S

Case of shutting the gate when the horse is gone I think. I hope it survives but I have a funny feeling we will be seeing a few courses biting the dust in next few years.

jimmystars

Played it recently and its a treat. Very long track and some nice walks between holes. It should seriously open itself up more for open days. Still a bit pricey at around 50 euro.
If it was 35 for open days it would do very well. I know its 35 for a green fee but it will attract more people if it had a competitive edge to the round.

dnjoyce

Played it on Sat for the first time, at the €35 rate, which I think represents decent value for what you get. Good lay-out but it's looking a bit rough around the edges (clubhouse drab, paint jobs needed out on course and bunkers with some grass growing through). Car park very empty too. If it stays below €50 for the summer it might do alright with Societies etc.

saintastic

westbuteast wrote: »

Can't understand why Palmerstown won't bring down the rate to increase revenue. Is it just a case of trying to remain in the upper tier of courses and still try to attract the now long lost joe soap with money to burn. There just isn't room for all these so called high class courses anymore. People don't have 2 and 3 thousand to join clubs and most people woundnt even dream of spending more than 30 euro on golf anymore. People are looking for value for money the last thing you want to hear is " oh I can't go below 40 euro and then say go somewhere else". I had the same problem myself I looked book four ball we agreed if we could get it for 30 we would play needless to say they didn't budge. 120 missed out on and it seemed they just didn't care. What bugs me most is the possible revenue the place could take in and perhaps even create a few jobs around the place.

If you walk up to Palmerstown, the course is empty and you say we'll give you €10 each for a fourball, should they accept it? By your argument above, if the course is empty they should as it is €40 or nothing.

I think they need to draw the line somewhere and €35/€40 is probably about the right level for that course considering they'd be hoping to get group bookings in at the €30 per person rate.

westbuteast

saintastic wrote: »

westbuteast wrote: »

Can't understand why Palmerstown won't bring down the rate to increase revenue. Is it just a case of trying to remain in the upper tier of courses and still try to attract the now long lost joe soap with money to burn. There just isn't room for all these so called high class courses anymore. People don't have 2 and 3 thousand to join clubs and most people woundnt even dream of spending more than 30 euro on golf anymore. People are looking for value for money the last thing you want to hear is " oh I can't go below 40 euro and then say go somewhere else". I had the same problem myself I looked book four ball we agreed if we could get it for 30 we would play needless to say they didn't budge. 120 missed out on and it seemed they just didn't care. What bugs me most is the possible revenue the place could take in and perhaps even create a few jobs around the place.

If you walk up to Palmerstown, the course is empty and you say we'll give you €10 each for a fourball, should they accept it? By your argument above, if the course is empty they should as it is €40 or nothing.

I think they need to draw the line somewhere and €35/€40 is probably about the right level for that course considering they'd be hoping to get group bookings in at the €30 per person rate.

I think every course should be free to play on. I think we shouldn't even offer palmerstown ten euro just tell them "that they should be hououred we have chosen to play on your course and seen as your quiet will u wash the car as well!"

LostPassword

Played it at the weekend for the first time at the 35 euros rate. Thought it was cracking value for what is still a very nice course. The faded-around-the-edges aspect I don't mind too much either. The deserted nature of the golf course, the huge shamrock bunkers, the four helipads with weeds overgrowing them and the field with the llamas and ostriches are particularly poignant symbols for this country too!

westbuteast

Have driven by palmerstown house two days in a row and see that the gates are closed. Anyone know if the course is maybe just closed for maintenance?

finlayspub1

played there on sat €35 euro for green fee , course was a little wet with rake and place in the bunkers , but greens were excellent for time of year .
not in GUI any more i believe as thats wat happens during liquidation .
I agree with the lads above if green fee levels stayed at that it would be full all summer

westbuteast

Just spotted the web page is gone too. Maybe be weary if anyone is booking a round there.

Anatom

Its still open - €35 a round at the moment. The problem is they have stopped doing food now, although the changing rooms etc. are open. However, I still think its good value for a seriously quality course.

The one thing I don't like is the long walks between greens and tees, but that's a very small complaint.

westbuteast

Anatom wrote: »

Its still open - €35 a round at the moment. The problem is they have stopped doing food now, although the changing rooms etc. are open. However, I still think its good value for a seriously quality course.

The one thing I don't like is the long walks between greens and tees, but that's a very small complaint.

That's fair enough just with the place locked up it looked suspect.

pauldoo

as far as i know its closed monday to friday and only opens at the weekends-class course. From the post above-they shouldnt accept your 120-its a race to the bottom and its killing golf courses

Anatom

Its in receivership so they have to keep the course in the same condition they got it in, in order to sell it on (yeah, I know...). It is open during the week, as well as weekends. The food is secondary but the course is being maintained well I hear.

I'm thinking about heading out for a round one of these days.

bailey99

I got a mail from Online Teetimes offering golf in Palmerstown for 22euro midweek so the place must be open.

westbuteast

pauldoo wrote: »

as far as i know its closed monday to friday and only opens at the weekends-class course. From the post above-they shouldnt accept your 120-its a race to the bottom and its killing golf courses

Maybe if they accepted 30 euro for a green off people for early bird or late afternoon they wouldn't be closed Monday to Friday. Plenty of excellent value out there anyway. Tulfarris rathsallagh Dunmurry springs the curragh the heritage all give Palmerstown a run for its money. All still open Monday to Friday as well. Won't lose much sleep if it dose go tits up and im sure the receivers won't either.

Osgoodisgood

It isn't closed Mon - Fri.
I played it today and it's in great shape. €35 to play this fantastic course is a bargain. (no flames on NAMA course pricing please) My advice is to enjoy it while you can because none of us know what's going to happen to it in the future.

whizbang

Bailey, Any idea how we can avail of the €22 offer, I cant seem to find any mention of this.

westbuteast

whizbang wrote: »

Bailey, Any idea how we can avail of the €22 offer, I cant seem to find any mention of this.[/Q

Its on teetimes.ie you have to sign up for offers. spotted it in my mail box just after it was sent to me tried to book but said it was no longer available. it dosent matter now anyway because the deal was for a monday and a friday but if the close mon to fri you cant avail of the offer.

whizbang

thanks for that. I stopped the offers because i did find they were short notice stuff.

1916

Now is your chance to personally save Palmerstown GC, if you have €12m, today's IT

Mansfield's trophy golf estate for €12 million

Jim Mansfield spent a small fortune building an 18-hole golf resort on the grounds of Palmerstown House

PALMERSTOWN HOUSE Estate and golf course at Johnstown, close to the Dublin-Kildare border, is to be offered for sale in the second phase of a sell-off of distressed properties held by the Citywest businessman Jim Mansfield.

Receiver Kieran Wallace of KPMG is handling the sale of the golfing estate for the National Asset Management Agency (Nama), in addition to Mansfield's Weston Executive Airport near Lucan, which has been attracting considerable overseas interest since it went on the market a month ago.

Nama secured a €74 million liability order against Mansfield last October and since then Bank of Scotland has also obtained €214 million summary judgment orders against him arising from his personal guarantees of debts of various firms he controlled.

Robert Ganly of Knight Frank is to seek offers over €12 million for Palmerstown House and its 688-acre estate, which has more than half its land still in agricultural use.

Mansfield bought the late Victorian house and lands from the US heiress Ann Biddle in 1999 and, in the hope of repeating the success of his golf courses at Citywest and competing directly with the more prestigious K Club a few miles away in Co Kildare, he embarked on an ambitious and expensive plan to turn Palmerstown into a premier golf resort complete with a private hotel for wealthy clients. One source close to the project said that the borrowings to purchase and develop the estate were "off the wall".

Mansfield spent a small fortune on building an 18-hole golf course through ancient parklands, mature woodlands and alongside a string of lakes and streams. At the same time he spared no expense on building an over-the-top clubhouse which has a floor area of no less than 2,625sq m (28,255sq ft) on three levels.

The amenities include three large lobbies, a board room, two bar rooms, two function rooms, three separate commercial kitchens and no less than six offices. And to make life easier for what we thought were rich property developers and their bankers and businessmen whose time was even more precious, six of the seven helicopter pads on the estate were allocated a special high-profile park next to the clubhouse.

The whole golfing experiment got under way in 2005 and while it initially prospered after attracting the PGA European Tour and the AIB Irish Seniors golf competition, few, if any, in the Mansfield camp realised that their property empire was in deep trouble.

The collapse of the property industry and the arrival of the IMF bailout team exposed the heavy dependency on bank borrowings by Mansfield and many other large developers, and almost overnight diverted attention from golf and entertaining to survival measures and austerity options. The dramatic fall in property values has, however, made it easier for Knight Frank to find a buyer for Palmerstown, one of the finest country estates in Co Kildare, with a top-class golf course extending to 226 acres, another 393 acres of farmland and the restored main house with six superb reception rooms and 15 bedrooms.

Palmerstown House has been extensively refurbished and remodelled but, with an overall floor area of 2,350sq m (25,295sq ft), it may well be too large for use as a private home.

It was rebuilt in the late Victorian Queen Anne style with the aid of public subscriptions in the late 1870s as a tribute to the memory of the sixth Earl of Mayo (Richard Southwell Bourke), who was chief secretary for Ireland and later viceroy of India, where he was assassinated by an escaped convict in 1872.

The seventh Earl of Mayo subsequently lived there and when the house was damaged during the Civil War it was rebuilt yet again.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/finance/2012/0229/1224312517306.html

westbuteast

Make it a public course. Develope a centre of excellence for talented youngsters. Have it well manicured so maybe there could possibly be a chance of hosting an Irish open in years to come. Keep the fees reasonable and boom it's a money maker again!

TheRoomWrecker

12million.....a steal! I better get doing the euromillions so.

Good Idea westbuteast but like all logical good ideas in this country, they don't get put into practice to often.

spacecoyote

From what I can gather the main problem about this place that kept costs up was the sheer size of the place an the number of staff that were required for upkeep.

Didn't he offer the place & a couple of million to Newlands as a swap? As far as I know the Newlands members refused the offer because they would have had to double or treble their number of groundskeeping staff alone

WH BONNEY

Yes he did make an offer of a swap plus cash to Newlands.

The offer was rejected for a number of reasons. Even if they could have come to an agreement on valuations a stumbling block that was unlikely to be resolved was that he was only offering the land covering the course. So he would have access rights and development rights to all the other land surrounding the course.

One can only imagine the potential for untold hardship that this could create for the club.

pistolpetes11

Drove by it myself today and the gates were closed , nothing on there website , what's the story with the place now ?

Actually they had something on the website , €50 for golf only and that's the winter rate !

bailey99

I've tried contacting them a couple of times to make a booking for next month, but no response at all.

westbuteast

bailey99 wrote: »

I've tried contacting them a couple of times to make a booking for next month, but no response at all.

Prob best try ringing fri through Sunday when it's open.

Anatom

pistolpetes11 wrote: »

Drove by it myself today and the gates were closed , nothing on there website , what's the story with the place now ?

Actually they had something on the website , €50 for golf only and that's the winter rate !

Hi

Its definitely open. I actually played it last Sunday morning with a mate of mine. There were quite a few out that morning, and there was a society out about an hour or so behind us. Given the layout of the course, you'd hardly notice large numbers 'cos you can really only see the groups immediately in front or behind you.

The course was playing really, really well for the time of year. Yes, anything high was plugging into the fairways and the greens were a little slow (there had been a good bit of rain the night before and it was drizzling, so you'd expect that), but they were very true. Even the bunkers weren't too bad (they were much, much better than the concrete ones in the Heritage a couple of weeks earlier!)

Its a long walk around though, and they won't let you take out a caddy car onto the course - paths only - until April which is also understandable. (€20) They way I was driving it, having a caddy car would only involve more walking, not less, so we left it.

When we had finished the car park looked reasonably full - not packed by any means, but there were a good few out there.

For €35 its a great deal and something I certainly intend to do again.

bailey99

when did u play the heritage mate? What sort of condition was in it? Cheers. Playing it next Tuesday.

charlieIRL

bailey99 wrote: »

when did u play the heritage mate? What sort of condition was in it? Cheers. Playing it next Tuesday.

You'r a bit off topic there!

We played the last society outing there recently, was in good condition but some balls were plugging - even on fairways. The dry weather we've had since will have cured it a bit though.

Rabidlamb

I remember just before this course was open the father-in-law brought me for a drive around it.
He was a site engineer on the upgrading of the M7 so had access when they worked alongside it.
I thought then it had the potential to exceed the K-Club & was tailor made to be a future Irish Open venue.
Those lucky enough to play it in it's first year were being charged €140, some thrifty shoppers got it for a steal at €80 with rare special offers.
Now you can play it during the week for the price of Bodenstown/Ladyhill, if that isn't a Celtic Tiger tale I don't know what is.

L.O.F.T

Rabidlamb wrote: »

Those lucky enough to play it in it's first year were being charged €140

I'll give you an example, not to sound smug but just to emphasise how the whole place was the epitome of the Celtic tiger.
I remember the opening months of it well. I played it many times and was lucky never to have to pay as it was a favourite amongst suppliers ''looking after'' their customers back in the heady boom days of the Celtic Tiger.
On one of the days we were taken care of the day included golf, buggies, ProVs, polo shirts, wind-shirts all paid for. After golf it was a 4-5 course dinner and free drinks at the bar late into the night. The course, the clubhouse, the locker rooms, the bar, the restaurant, the range and everything about the resorts was impeccable at the time. It looked the part and everything about it exuded money. The welcome upon arrival was always evident but always felt disingenuous and contrived with lots of sir's thrown in, I was 20 odd at the time and to be called sir was comical.

Rabidlamb wrote: »

if that isn't a Celtic Tiger tale I don't know what is.

That day must have set the payer of our day back €300+ per player and there was 20 of us.
Now... you can't even get a sandwich after your round!

acejeff

Anyone who has ever played this course and had should easily recognise the reasons why this place is unsustainable (particularly at this time).
1. As the previous post pointed out this place relied upon big corporates essentially writing blank cheques to entertain clients / customers / suppliers / whoever. This market simply does not exist any more in this country. Timing is everything and Palmerstown’s timing in this regard was catastrophically wrong!!
2. The sheer scale / grandeur of the place – unbelievably high overheads
3. Course design / maintenance – the course design, not only in sheer size of the plot it is built upon, lends to an unsustainable maintenance bill. Take for example the 10th hole, par 3, the massive bunker which makes the island green – raking of the bunker is one thing but the shape of it lends the main problem, dozens of intricate inlets of grass all the way around meaning that it , the maintenance of cutting the grass around that bunker alone must take hours!!

Personally I don’t like the course itself. While there is no doubting it is spectacular I think it’s all a bit contrived / manufactured. It follows the American resort mould in this respect but personally I have always preferred courses that sit more naturally in the environment than try to manufacture spectacle. There’s a lack of real substance and bite to it. Fur coat, no knickers I would say.

FixdePitchmark

acejeff wrote: »

. Fur coat, no knickers I would say.

Sounds great

---

oh your using it as an analogy.

Acejeff,

There are a few other that were designed in that way. The Heritage is one. I do like The Heritage, but it seems way ott, the bunkers etc. As for the clubhouse. Jesus , it is a real monolith to all that went wrong now. The funny thing is we are all paying for it now.

I wonder what the guy who had the Junket is up to now (LOFT?).

Another example is Luttrellstown.

These places are open, but they are not able to keep them in the condition they were. The problem as golfers is that once you get accustomed to big courses and big ideas, it is hard to go back to a basic golf course. It is a bit like Fur coat and no knickers in a way.

Stacksey

Played palmerstown house on saturday and what a fantastic golf course that is, i thought it might have been a bit shabby and not properly maintained since going into recievership but it was in great condition. This played could easily have staged the Irish open.

tang1

Thread open on this already.