Broadsheet.ie & IT deleting articles relating to Kate's death

Sooopie

Callipo wrote: »

As a parent and someone who lost a cousin in similar circumstances I find the fact that issues like alcohol and pills are skimmed over like they were irrelevent.

Ireland needs to wake up to its problems with both. Not bury them when it comes to suicide and traffic accidents that result in deaths.

RIP Kate. Hope you are somewhere better.

what does that have to do with this thread?

HellFireClub

I think we need to get real here for a minute and take a step back and look at the actual standard of people management in this country. Just take a look at the Work & Jobs forum on this site. There is a problem with the kind of people who worm their way into managerial positions in this country. Because promotion in this country tends to be who you know over what you can prove and demonstrate that you know, by way of formal academic certification, we get people in this country falling back on family and friendly connections to push through promotions into management roles and positions. Then we act all surprised and shocked, when this goes to the head of someone who actually hasn't a clue how to manage people, and people end up feeling bullied and tormented by "managers" who have no training, formal or otherwise, in human behavioual science or organisational theory.

Think about it for a second... If I turned up in Dublin Airport tomorrow morning and offered to take the 737 on the runway to Shannon, because my uncle "knew me", and thought I'd be right for the job, would you board the plane?!?

We obviously wouldn't tolerate a situation such as that, yet we are happy enough to let humans, (the most complicated entity on earth), by directed by largely unqualified, self appointed, over ambitious, career failures???

Dionysus

According to the very lively discussion on the caustically entitled Bully for Them, there is now a Facebook page set up to Boycott the Irish Times.

I don't have a Facebook account but for those of you who do, maybe you could spread the word.

I didn't buy The Irish Times today. Before this it was the best newspaper in Ireland (considering O'Reilly's rags are the opposition, this isn't exactly hard) but I'm going to keep my money in my pocket every Friday and Saturday (the two days I'd purchase the paper) from now until The Irish Times rectifies this awfully cowardly act. If something's interesting enough I can read it for free online. I don't have the goodwill now to purchase it just for the sake of financially supporting it as a balance to O'Reilly.

Sooopie

Its heartbreaking whats happened to Kate, and this mess after it all makes it even worse.

Sooopie

It will be 10 years next week since I lost my dad through suicide. My family still cannot mention, or speak of the event.

We remember him fondly, but can't admit the taboo surrounding his demise.

Its a heavy, hard weight to bare. But we're not victims, nor is my dad

Callipo

Sooopie wrote: »

what does that have to do with this thread?

Who knows.

No one is talking about it. Taboo etc.

Sooopie

Callipo wrote: »

Who knows.

No one is talking about it. Taboo etc.

Nice.

Callipo

Sooopie wrote: »

Nice.

How so?

Alcohol is a major factor is these cases.

Sooopie

Callipo wrote: »

How so?

Alcohol is a major factor is these cases.

Pr1cks like you don't help.

Mod note: Poster Banned

Callipo

Sooopie wrote: »

Pr1cks like you don't help.

You should watch the interview with her parents on TV now....

You don't help tbh.

Sooopie

Callipo wrote: »

You should watch the interview with her parents on TV now....

You don't help tbh.

Do you think you do?

tbh

The main message Kate and her parents are talking about is the taboo society has placed on metal illness. The stuff about .CC, while unpleasant, is a side issue imo. Kate never said that her job contributed to her depression. The conversation here seems to have turned into some people, some of whom only heard about this in the last 24 hours it would appear, taking an opportunity to stick a boot into "the establishment", and it seems like the message Kate was trying to convey us getting lost in that. I think that's an awful shame.

Callipo

tbh wrote: »

The main message Kate and her parents are talking about is the taboo society has placed on metal illness. The stuff about .CC, while unpleasant, is a side issue imo. Kate never said that her job contributed to her depression. The conversation here seems to have turned into some people, some of whom only heard about this in the last 24 hours it would appear, taking an opportunity to stick a boot into "the establishment", and it seems like the message Kate was trying to convey us getting lost in that. I think that's an awful shame.

On RTE 1 the interviewer has mentioned alcohol many times. And the family have agreed.

Dionysus

tbh wrote: »

The main message Kate and her parents are talking about is the taboo society has placed on metal illness. The stuff about .CC, while unpleasant, is a side issue imo. Kate never said that her job contributed to her depression. The conversation here seems to have turned into some people, some of whom only heard about this in the last 24 hours it would appear, taking an opportunity to stick a boot into "the establishment", and it seems like the message Kate was trying to convey us getting lost in that. I think that's an awful shame.

The Communications Clinic.

(owners: Terry Prone; Tom Savage; Anton Savage)

There, it wasn't that hard, was it tbh?

4zn76tysfajdxp

Dionysus wrote: »

The Communications Clinic.

(owners: Terry Prone; Tom Savage; Anton Savage)

There, it wasn't that hard, was it tbh?

I think you may have missed his point.

rovert

Who knew the media was this sleazy?

*continues to buy The Irish Times*

Hersheys

Elsa Chilly Treachery wrote: »

I think you may have missed his point.

The issue regarding the employer is secondary to the fact that Sally-Ann & Tom have lost an amazing daughter, William has lost an amazing sister and the many people who had the pleasure to have had Kate in their lives (myself included) have lost a truly amazing friend.

But what's happened in the media the past few days has been inexcusable, hopefully it reaches resolution soon.

temply

I won't be buying the IT again. This incident has proved to me what a small incestious country we are.

tbh

Dionysus wrote: »

tbh wrote: »

The main message Kate and her parents are talking about is the taboo society has placed on metal illness. The stuff about .CC, while unpleasant, is a side issue imo. Kate never said that her job contributed to her depression. The conversation here seems to have turned into some people, some of whom only heard about this in the last 24 hours it would appear, taking an opportunity to stick a boot into "the establishment", and it seems like the message Kate was trying to convey us getting lost in that. I think that's an awful shame.

[SIZE="6"]The Communications Clinic.[/SIZE]

(owners: Terry Prone; Tom Savage; Anton Savage)

[SIZE="1"]There, it wasn't that hard, was it tbh?[/SIZE]

What a literal way to illustrate my point. Thank you.

rovert

temply wrote: »

I won't be buying the IT again. This incident has proved to me what a small incestious country we are.

Yup after the banking scandals THIS was the tipping point. :eek:

Dionysus

tbh wrote: »

Kate never said that her job contributed to her depression.

At least be clear of your facts before making such claims:The original unedited article by Kate Fitzgerald (9 September 2011)

The bits The Irish Times, in its incomprehensible cowardice, removed on 28 November 2011: splitrmx's post

Now, here's a very relevant extract:

'Mine was not a work-related illness. "At least not before I entered the hospital. However, when I was released and when I returned to my office, things became different. I knew it would be difficult to explain to my employer, and I knew it would be difficult for them to understand an illness with no visible symptoms. I did not, however, expect that I would be met with casual hostility, with passive-aggressive references to my mental incapacity for my profession, and my apparently perceived “plan” to leave the company entirely in the lurch."

By my understanding of the phrase "contributed to her depression", the above extract shows incontrovertibly that The Communications Clinic most definitely did "contribute to her depression" according to Kate Fitzgerald herself.

Given the choice of accepting the word of a person who wrote this article anonymously, did not mention her employer, and was fair enough to be clear that her (then anonymous) employer did not cause the initial illness, or the word of arguably the most infamous spindoctor in Irish society, I think I'll side with the former.

How ironic that in denying claims of bullying, Prone and company's reaction to this story has all the hallmarks of people who are rather accomplished in that particular field. It's like they treated this as another political character assassination with all the innuendo and leaks which are the contemptible tools of their ignominious sycophantic little trade which feeds off professional politicians. Merciless and dirty.

And The Irish Times sold truth and principal out to them because the dead cannot be defamed and it was therefore cheaper to defame a dead woman than to stand for that woman's truth against The Communications Clinic.

temply

rovert wrote: »

Yup after the banking scandals THIS was the tipping point. :eek:

Seeing as this incident actually puts a face to someone, rather than the faceless robbers that have ruined this country, yes, thats my tipping point.

rovert

temply wrote: »

Seeing as this incident actually puts a face to someone, rather than the faceless robbers that have ruined this country, yes, thats my tipping point.

k

Dionysus

tbh wrote: »

What a literal way to illustrate my point. Thank you.

Your point was your point; your claim that The Communications Clinic "did not contribute to her depression" is entirely your point. Kate Fitzgerald said the opposite, so I don't think you should be assuming you're speaking for her when you abnegate that company's responsibility for her situation.

Because you have misunderstood the fundamental importance of The Communications Clinic to the way she was treated, you are downgrading its importance. You may not be intentionally dishonest in representing this story the way you're doing, but it is a dishonest representation of what happened nevertheless.

temply

rovert wrote: »

k

plenty more are responsible

rovert

temply wrote: »

plenty more are responsible

All I know is that this will be forgotten in a year and I will still be buying the Times on Friday to see Donald Clarke rip into ****ty films/figure out what to see in the cinema.

#tisdamejiacycle

Dionysus

Elsa Chilly Treachery wrote: »

I think you may have missed his point.

I got his point fully; I also got his comment that The Communications Clinic did not "contribute to her depression", when she made clear that it very much did.

As such, trying to move the focus away from the actions of that company is based on an idea that it is innocent of blame, when this is patently not the reality as testified to by Kate Fitzgerald (particularly in the parts mentioned above which The Irish Times censored at the request of The Communications Clinic).

Dudess

She did not blame the company for her illness. I find its behaviour sickening too, but let's not scapegoat. There is sometimes much too much of a need for blame.
They main concern here is this merciless illness, still so misunderstood, has led to the loss of yet another young life.
The media stuff is merely a side story. Most important of all is that there is a way to go yet in terms of attitudes towards depression and those who are suicidal.

Darragho

I hope Kate is now at peace.

I found the interview of her family very moving tonight, May she rest in peace.

rovert

Dudess wrote: »

She did not blame the company for her illness. I find its behaviour sickening too, but let's not scapegoat. There is sometimes much too much of a need for blame.
They main concern here is this merciless illness, still so misunderstood, has led to the loss of yet another young life.
The media stuff is merely a side story. Most important of all is that there is a way to go yet in terms of attitudes towards depression and those who are suicidal.

Agreed people here are ascribing rational thought to really profound mental illness. Not saying her employers were saints but this is sadly inevitable regardless of intervention.