Broadsheet.ie & IT deleting articles relating to Kate's death

The Sparrow

Powerful words. I have been appalled by how The Irish Times has handled this from the start and this only reinforces that view and vindicates my decision to stop buying the newspaper.

For the editor to say that Irish Times readers had no difficulty with the retraction is an insult to every former or current Irish Times reader who has posted their displeasure here or on Twitter or Facebook or written directly to the paper. Anyone that followed this story for even the briefest of moments would know that many readers had a large amount of difficulty with the retraction.

And it is cowardly to say now that the words in the retraction did not constitute calling Kate Fitzgerald a liar. Of course they did and I believe that it would be difficult to find any right thinking person that would say otherwise. So the very least that The Irish Times should have done was either stand by their words and show the family the evidence for those assertions by the newspaper or put their hands up and apologise for tarnishing a deceased person's reputation and apologise to the family. Instead, they are hiding behind a defence that is no way credible.

ciarafem

I have just read what Kate Fitzgerald's parents had to say on Broadsheet about the Irish Times' attitude towards their deceased daughter:

We do not advise Ireland’s Taoiseach and the Fine Gael party. We do not chair Ireland’s national broadcasting authority. We do not offer PR advice to the princes of the Catholic Church. We do not have daily access to talk shows and newspapers. In short, we are not influential.
When the Irish Times found itself between a rock and a hard place, it chose to go against us and our dead daughter.
We spoke to Kate almost every day for the last weeks of her life. What she told us in those conversations supports her final article.

It seems that the paper is taking the word of The Communications Clinic over those of her parents. Shameful behaviour by the Irish Times.

RayM

Strangely, the Irish Times is covering this story now.

The Sweeper

Wow. Apparently the Irish Times needs the assistance of some PR gurus.

That article makes little sense. To report on it like an uninvolved third party? Whose idea was that?

They should fully restore the text of the original article in the interest of historical accuracy. They can then publish as large a caveat as they want, stating that the article is Kate's point of view, and offer the Communications Clinic the right to reply if they so wish. They would do better to try climbing for the higher ground here and redirecting the focus off their clumsy attempts at editorial sleight of hand and onto mental health in Ireland, the stigma, the lack of understanding and the difficulty many, many people have in their jobs and their lives due to mental health issues.

I find it sad and unfortunate that the former bastion of Irish journalism appears to be so preoccupied with its own ego that it apparently cannot cope with its integrity being questioned. Scratch the surface and you discover it's simply a veneer, and underneath are the same layers of old-boy-network entitlement that appear to be endemic in Irish society.

Any chance of adding a poll to this thread to see if anyone will actually buy the Irish Times again, to see if Kevin O'Sullivan's assertion "Irish Times readers had no difficulty with his retraction" is accurate?

ciarafem

According to the article the editor of the IT is now maintaining that:

The Irish Times ’s decision to edit the initial piece and publish a clarification and apology was necessary in the context of fairness.

The article also says that:

In the statement, Mr and Mrs Fitzgerald said they spoke to Kate almost every day for the last weeks of her life and believe that what she told them in those conversations validated the content of her final article.

It seems that the IT has gotten itself into a hole and keeps digging by not apologising for the accusation that the contents of Kate Fitzgerald’s anonymous article were not factual.

I have also just come across two good blogs on the affair that are worth reading:

http://www.joyofwriting.net/blog/?p=730#more-730

http://ellencoyne.blogspot.com/2011/12/stop-press.html

The Sparrow

Curiously, The Irish Times article today was written by Carl O'Brien who was cited in the editors original explanation for his articles last year on suicide. In that article, Kevin O'Sullivan said that Carl O'Brien's series of 'Suicide Stories' had:

helped set free so many voices on the issue of depression and suicide across all strands of Irish society; notably of those with depression – who succumbed to it on a once-off basis or face it in a recurring way. Their families too were grateful for being part of the conversation, including some grieving after the loss of a loved one.

A cynical person might question why out of every journalist on their staff, The Irish Times chose Carl O'Brien to write today's rather bizarre article.

The handling of this story by The Irish Times is completely bizarre.

The Sweeper

Is it just me or is the headline even bizarre? 'Fitzgeralds criticise Irish Times'. I know there's no tone in text, but I can't help but hear that in a voice of outraged indignation.

DeVore

Havent you people been listening to me all these years ??

Libel laws.... combined with the threat of no further access to the politicians they represent nor ad revenue from corps.

Truth is they need the IT more than the IT needs them but its a cosy relationship and after all, Ms Fitzgerald is dead and you cant libel dead people.

DeV.

Dudess

Are the fickle peeps still pissed off with Broadsheet or are they back in favour?

ciarafem

Dudess wrote: »

Are the fickle peeps still pissed off with Broadsheet or are they back in favour?

Having followed the story for some time it is not unreasonable to assume that Broadsheet must have come under intense legal intimidation by those acting for the 'Devil who Wears Prada'. The fact that they have continued to bkeep the story alive is to be welcomed.

In view of the attempts that are being made to prevent the mainstream media from commenting on the story it is very important that non mainstream media channels such as Boards.ie keep the story alive.

As Ms Fitzgerald's parents point out

We do not advise Ireland’s Taoiseach and the Fine Gael party. We do not chair Ireland’s national broadcasting authority. We do not offer PR advice to the princes of the Catholic Church. We do not have daily access to talk shows and newspapers. In short, we are not influential.

They need all the help they can get to 'ensure that her final message lives on'.

Dionysus

What an absolute shame. The Irish Times has been bought in my home all of my life. Anything owned by O'Reilly would never darken our door. A look at my previous posts could confirm my views of O'Reilly and what his rags represent (alas, I'm quite passionate about his role in undermining Irish democracy).

In recent years, with the online version, it has been goodwill towards the creation of an alternative to O'Reilly's rags which has inspired most of us to buy The Irish Times. Goodwill, not necessity.

It should be a matter of basic remorse and regret on the part of the current editorial staff of The Irish Times that the newspaper, our newspaper, has essentially called this lady a liar. At this stage, The Irish Times Trust should be brought in to discuss this in the kindest and most gentle manner possible with the current editor. Every one of us make mistakes in our jobs. Most of those mistakes deserve to be forgiven, this included. But I really do not think it's unfair that this lady's reputation be tarnished by the Irish Times claim that what she said was a lie.

In the meantime, can the rest of us endeavour to oppose the Prone/Savage machine everywhere we find it in Irish society? They may have won this battle. It is up to each and every one of us to ensure they do not win the war. When they appear on a radio or tv programme, send that text in; when they are funded to help a political party, write that letter and get your friends and family to sign it, and so on.

There is a clear and unmistakable power dynamic here against Kate Fitzgerald and those of us who aren't as connected as is Terry Prone. Who should we stand with?

Be strong. Be true. We are Irish; given our history, we should be standing up for the underdog against the powerful everywhere.

Shame, once more, upon The Irish Times. Shame.

ciarafem

Dionysus wrote: »

Be strong. Be true. We are Irish; given our history, we should be standing up for the underdog against the powerful everywhere.

Shame, once more, upon The Irish Times. Shame.

If none of the other main newspapers, together with RTE and the other radio stations, don't follow up on Ms Fitzgerald's parents statement tomorrow, the Irish Times will be hoping that the story will disappear.

This is the way of news stories particularly when they are ignored by the mainstream media. Remember that only Broadsheet.ie and the Sunday Times give life to the exposing of what has happened.

It is very important that everyone, who believes that a major injustice has been done, does their bit to keep the story alive.

It will be particularly interesting to see if programmes like Maian Finnucane mention it tomorrow.

Callipo

Dudess wrote: »

Are the fickle peeps still pissed off with Broadsheet or are they back in favour?

Well said.

Sheeple are like that. Crap about not reading the times is just that.

The media manipulation that has happened, happens all the time. It can be as simple as referring to someone as having killed someone versus someone murdering someone.

Most sheeple saying they will boycott the Times won't in reality. That is the reality.

DeVore

raindog.promo wrote: »

This leaves Ireland trailing behind other jurisdictions. Since 1996, the United States has given internet providers a defence in respect of material written by users. So have many EU countries, which went further than European law requires. Ireland, however, exposes internet intermediaries to a much greater business risk of being held liable for material they did not produce.

http://www.digitalrights.ie/2010/02/28/irish-defamation-law-still-inadequate-for-internet/

Tell me something that hasnt kept me awake for over a decade

But the US is attempting to undo it own freedoms at the moment with SOPA.
Bought and paid for by the RIAA.

DeV.

drg85

The Irish Times behavior has been appalling. Indeed, so has TCC but I'm far more disappointed at the IT as a paper of record to do such a thing. Kate was one of my best friends, and I knew the regard in which she held the IT. I am disappointed, and I know she would be too. If you have a problem with the actions of the Irish times, please do tell them on their facebook page (facebook.com/irishtimes) or better still email the editor ;kosullivan@irishtimes.com .

If you want more information, I have written on the topic quite a bit at http://goo.gl/QgF42 and also included Kate's actual article before it was butchered.

It's been refreshing to see the generally apathetic Irish voice their discontent over this, and I sincerely hope the pressure is kept up. Kate's family deserve an apology, and the very notion she was a liar needs to be challenged.

DeVore

My grandfather was one of the chief printers in the Irish Times, I know what he would have told Terry Prone and the Communications Clinic.


But ironically Kate's final wish, that people educate themselves about depression is coming true. Things like WhatStigma were happening anyway but as a direct result of Kate we now have the DepressionHurts campaign and that has sprung several side efforts like a Twitter account manned over Xmas (a time of considerable hardship for depression sufferers). Kate spurred me to write something on Boards here which had waaay more impact then I would have guessed.

The Irish Times is under siege on Facebook and hasn't posted there since before the retraction.

Ms Fitzgerald may yet achieve more than she ever dreamed with her last letter.

DeV.

The Sparrow

DeVore wrote: »

Kate spurred me to write something on Boards here which had waaay more impact then I would have guessed.

Great thread btw. I read it a couple of days ago and learned a lot.

Fair play for writing it and hopefully as you say plenty of good will come from this incredibly sad situation.

ciarafem

Why is Gay Mitchell MEP not coming forward and joining in the debate on Kate Fitzgerald’s article, and her parents statement in Broadsheet ?

In his speech at the Fine Gael Presidential Convention on July 2011 he stated the following:

http://www.gaymitchell.ie/?m=201107

Very sadly suicide in Ireland is at a level previously unknown. At last we can talk about it. Every day I remember the souls of people I have known who have died in this way and think of their families. Shockingly the list of those I remember is growing. Why?

We need to return to a society based on principles, a less harsh and a more merciful and forgiving society. Yes, there is something broken in our society and I believe the ethos I am proposing has the potential to help us to repair that brokenness and to become not just more ethical and happier but more gentle.

I recall seeing the ‘Devil who Wears Prada’ on Tonight with VB on the night of the Presidential election results when Vincent questioned her on her role in advising Mitchell during his campaign. Can anyone confirm that?

RGDATA!

ciarafem wrote: »

I recall seeing the ‘Devil who Wears Prada’ on Tonight with VB on the night of the Presidential election results when Vincent questioned her on her role in advising Mitchell during his campaign. Can anyone confirm that?

yes, she was on his show but, despite vincent's 'haranguing', refused to answer questions about mitchell

mehfesto

kosullivan@irishtimes.com

That's the e-mail address to let the editor know you won't be buying the paper again until the issue is at least discussed fairly and without interference from PR firms.

Son Of A Vidic

I've only just read this thread and it is totally shocking and disgusting to see what happened to this bright and beautiful young woman. I can only hope that the central players involved will eventually fall on their own swords. I believe bullying is rife in this country and can be very subtle in nature. Many talk the talk on this issue but never walk the walk. Zero tolerance towards bullying is the only acceptable policy to enforce in any environment.

RIP Kate.

Dudess

Callipo wrote: »

Most sheeple saying they will boycott the Times won't in reality. That is the reality.

although I think the term "sheeple" should be airbrushed from vocabulary, along with "feminazi" and "PC brigade", I am inclined to agree.

The Sparrow

Dudess wrote: »

although I think the term "sheeple" should be airbrushed from vocabulary, along with "feminazi" and "PC brigade", I am inclined to agree.

Well I certainly will boycott the IT until this issue is satisfactorily addressed by them or a new editor is appointed. Which I presume won't happen any time soon.

What Goes Up...

No pic embedding allowed it seems - so here's some links:

http://omg.wthax.org/T__I____T___s.jpg

http://www.japlandic.com/2011/12/t-i-t-s.html

Kimia

I wonder how this scandal is affecting the IT advertising sales department? They are losing readers hand over fist. I am glad that people are not letting this go.

Dionysus

We should have an alert here for when that shadowy svengalian figure, Terry Prone, or her son or husband appear on radio and tv programmes so that we can make complaints. In particular, when she is on RTÉ shows and being paid out of the public funds which fund RTÉ. They have been living off us all for far too long. Let's make this act of bullying their last. She regularly appeared on the show of that other parasite, Marian Finucane, and also on Patrick Kenny's morning radio show.

Just a reminder: Former employee claims she was bullied at Prone's PR firm

Dionysus

Somebody hoped that RTÉ might take this issue up and investigate further. I share that hope. However, considering that the head of the RTÉ Authority is also Terry Prone's husband, and a director of The Communications Clinic, it is highly unlikely this will happen.

The Fitzgeralds were 100% correct when they highlighted the power disparity between their fight for Kate's good name, and the side The Irish Times supported:

'We do not advise Ireland’s Taoiseach and the Fine Gael party. We do not chair Ireland’s national broadcasting authority. We do not offer PR advice to the princes of the Catholic Church. We do not have daily access to talk shows and newspapers. In short, we are not influential.

When the Irish Times found itself between a rock and a hard place, it chose to go against us and our dead daughter.'

Let Kate have the final word


Some people and organisations which fund Terry Prone and The Communications Clinic:

1. The Irish Examiner, a private company, seems to pay Terry Prone a lot of money to write articles for it: here. We can boycott it for as long as it funds this individual.

2. Fine Gael and Enda Kenny give her substantial commissions, including one this month to advise Kenny on his public address. Can we see the figures?

3. RTÉ has this woman, and her son, on the radio on a quotidian basis. Another director of The Communications Clinic is on a nice little earner as the head of RTÉ. How much money has RTÉ paid them in 2011 alone?


Add other companies to this list if you can.

Dionysus

A horrifyingly apt photograph of one Terry Prone is right here.

gozunda

Corvus Maximus wrote: »

I've only just read this thread and it is totally shocking and disgusting to see what happened to this bright and beautiful young woman. I can only hope that the central players involved will eventually fall on their own swords. I believe bullying is rife in this country and can be very subtle in nature. Many talk the talk on this issue but never walk the walk. Zero tolerance towards bullying is the only acceptable policy to enforce in any environment.

RIP Kate.

Not only is such bullying rife, in my experience it is an allowed and accepted behaviour in many organisations. In the US bullying is criminalised to some degree I believe in 41 states.

From the Wellbeing Foundation...

Bullying is an act of violence and abuse... It's a vicious assault on the mind, body and spirit. The extent of its impact is rarely appreciated. As a criminal act, it needs to be addressed more seriously by the courts.... bullying is akin to the trauma of sexual abuse, rape, and torture. It crushes the will, breaks the heart and sends the mind into turmoil. In its wake it brings shame, guilt, self-loathing, isolation and seething anger. It can destroy relationships and wreck family life

LINK

In my opinion the sooner that bullying is made a criminal offence in this country the sooner that such behaviour will become unacceptable and directly challangeable

copacetic

I'm really stunned by the continued cowardly handling of this whole affair by the editor of the Irish Times. Only new to the job yes, but have a bit of integrity ffs. There is nothing worse that seeing something you have had huge respect for over many years dragged down to the level of the rest of the media.

Well done to broadsheet and boards for allowing free discussion and comment.