Argentina Drags Politics to London 2012

I am pie

Fratton Fred wrote: »

There are 2000 British service personnel in the falklands, along with a pair of eurofighter typhoons, but one guy in a rescue helicopter is upsetting the Argentines.

Oh please.

This whole thing is some jumped up ejit trying to get a bit of publicity with a bogus crest for the olympics.

Ah now , don't be disingenuous. One guy in a helicopter...pfft, come on. Wise up would ya.

If you cannot understand why the future king of the country you believe is occupying part of your country would be a slightly inflammatory choice of helicopter rescue pilot in that disputed territory then you are plain daft, and lacking in any kind of empathy!

Very very disingenuous.

woodoo

I don't know what Britain is doing still down there anyway. Let go you sentimental old fools.

trendyvicar

woodoo wrote: »

I don't know what Britain is doing still down there anyway. Let go you sentimental old fools.

I suspect it's because the people who live there are British and wish to stay that way.

On a similar note, when do you think the sentimental Irish will stop electing parties committed to Irish unity? They don't even have the excuse of majority support in the area concerned that The UK has in The Falklands.

BlaasForRafa

trendyvicar wrote: »

It wasn't a by-product - it was implicit in the entire process. Whilst Ireland sat on it's collective ar*e during the cold war (as usual), people like Pinochet took the war to the Marxist enemy.

So mass murder is fine as long as your a fascist is it?

trendyvicar

BlaasForRafa wrote: »

So mass murder is fine as long as your a fascist is it?

It was certainly effective in both Chile and Argentina in dealing with the Marxist threat. Whether it was all murder or not is different matter.

It's doubtful whether The Chilean or Argentine states were fascist - strictly speaking that is.

gurramok

Batsy wrote: »

I'm actually right (as I usually am).

And it was FIFA who were making an unnecessary fuss over the poppy issue. They said England couldn't wear poppies because teams are not allowed to wear "political, commercial or religious symbols" on their shirts. However, the poppy is none of those things. The wearing of the poppy is our way of showing our gratitude to the soldiers who have given their lives for freedom and democracy, to allow even those ungratefuls who belittle their sacrifice (many of whom are on this forum) to be free.

Wrong as usual Batsy. Your govt has hijacked the poppy for political ends as it commemorates all British war dead from the Irish War of Independence to those slain in NI to the latest fatality in Afghanistan. FIFA were correct in banning its wearing so Argentina in this case is following the precedent set by the English FA of bringing political symbols into sport.

JustinDee

gurramok wrote: »

Wrong as usual Batsy. Your govt has hijacked the poppy for political ends as it commemorates all British war dead from the Irish War of Independence to those slain in NI to the latest fatality in Afghanistan. FIFA were correct in banning its wearing so Argentina in this case is following the precedent set by the English FA of bringing political symbols into sport.

It isn't a political symbol.
Like any cause it can be hijacked politically but this literally can cover any cause. A tax cut isn't political. A new hospital isn't political either. Nor is the commemoration of those who perished at war.

'Argentina' isn't doing anything of a kind either. Some pot-stirrer came up with a cause-du-jour, that's all. Won't get any more oxygen before fizzling away into the forgotten.
Amazed it has even gotten this far here.

JustinDee

trendyvicar wrote: »

It was certainly effective in both Chile and Argentina in dealing with the Marxist threat. Whether it was all murder or not is different matter

Meaning what exactly?

trendyvicar wrote: »

It's doubtful whether The Chilean or Argentine states were fascist - strictly speaking that is.

How were the Junta in any of these countries not fascistic in their method and/or ideology?

Your posts are reading like being written by someone taking the contrarian line in order to get a rise.
All very familiar . . .

JustinDee

gurramok wrote: »

Yes its political, its associated with the modern British Armed Forces who co-incidentally represent the British govt, that is political. And Cameron recently described it as a symbol of British national pride.

Jumping on the bandwagon of a cause such as that is political and thats what their PM is doing there. How dare the British discuss "national pride" (hardly a political statement either).

Army v Navy annual rugby match is associated with the "British Armed Forces who co-incidentally represent the British govt". Is that a political rally?
No need to be so subjective.

Fratton Fred

I am pie wrote: »

Ah now , don't be disingenuous. One guy in a helicopter...pfft, come on. Wise up would ya.

If you cannot understand why the future king of the country you believe is occupying part of your country would be a slightly inflammatory choice of helicopter rescue pilot in that disputed territory then you are plain daft, and lacking in any kind of empathy!

Very very disingenuous.

I have no doubt the Argentinian version of the daily mail has made a big deal of this.

Most Argentinians of average intelligence probably see this for exactly what it is, a future monarch being given no special dispensation and having to muck in with everyone else.

The Falklands is considered the worst posting in the armed forces, so Wills is being sent there to prove a point.

It is very very disengenuous to think that this was a deliberate slight against Argentina.

gurramok

JustinDee wrote: »

Jumping on the bandwagon of a cause such as that is political and thats what their PM is doing there. How dare the British discuss "national pride" (hardly a political statement either).

Army v Navy annual rugby match is associated with the "British Armed Forces who co-incidentally represent the British govt". Is that a political rally?
No need to be so subjective.

Army&Navy organisations are political, don't be ridicoulousy strawman using that as a political rally. You're trying to say the poppy is not political when its proven on this forum it is that it is hence its right that political symbols are discouraged in sport. Isn't that what the Olympics is about?

I am pie

Fratton Fred wrote: »

I have no doubt the Argentinian version of the daily mail has made a big deal of this.

Most Argentinians of average intelligence probably see this for exactly what it is, a future monarch being given no special dispensation and having to muck in with everyone else.

The Falklands is considered the worst posting in the armed forces, so Wills is being sent there to prove a point.

It is very very disengenuous to think that this was a deliberate slight against Argentina.

You're being extremely one-eyed here, your perogative I suppose. I see you have walked away from the 'just some guy in a helicoptor' routine !

It's a PR exercise to demonstrate that the Falklands / Malvinas are still British. In fairness it's all part of a silly diplomatic spat which probably makes the papers a little more over there than in the UK, but a silly diplomatic it is nonetheless. The UK are playing their part as are the Argentinians, as it ever has been.

Batsy

woodoo wrote: »

I don't know what Britain is doing still down there anyway. Let go you sentimental old fools.

1) Because the people wish to remain British;

2) Because the islands have never belonged to Argentina, apart from briefly in 1982 after it invaded them.

Fratton Fred

I am pie wrote: »

You're being extremely one-eyed here, your perogative I suppose. I see you have walked away from the 'just some guy in a helicoptor' routine !

It's a PR exercise to demonstrate that the Falklands / Malvinas are still British. In fairness it's all part of a silly diplomatic spat which probably makes the papers a little more over there than in the UK, but a silly diplomatic it is nonetheless. The UK are playing their part as are the Argentinians, as it ever has been.

I suppose Will's posting in Wales was to prove that Anglesea is British as well.

I am pie

Fratton Fred wrote: »

I suppose Will's posting in Wales was to prove that Anglesea is British as well.

Seriously? You're comparing the territorial status of Anglesea and the Falklands ?

I think that's where this discussion just stopped becoming worthwhile.

All the best now.

Fratton Fred

I am pie wrote: »

Seriously? You're comparing the territorial status of Anglesea and the Falklands ?

I think that's where this discussion just stopped becoming worthwhile.

All the best now.

The Argentians have as much right to Anglesea to be honest.

This is part of a normal rotation that pilots from RAF valley regularly do. If William was not sent, then it would indicate special treatment which it has been made very clear he will not get.
The fact that you and/or the Argentinians are reading this as some sort of political demonstration says more about you and them than it does the British government.

I am pie

Fratton Fred wrote: »

The Argentians have as much right to Anglesea to be honest.

This is part of a normal rotation that pilots from RAF valley regularly do. If William was not sent, then it would indicate special treatment which it has been made very clear he will not get.
The fact that you and/or the Argentinians are reading this as some sort of political demonstration says more about you and them than it does the British government.

I'm not interested in the territorial issue. In fairness both sides have a claim, however this is completely academic in terms of your ridiculous position.

Do regular postings usually involve newspaper coverage, i.e. propaganda ?

If you don't understand the subtleties of diplomatic tit for tat point scoring then that's your own lookout. In your facile world everything the British do is decent, fair and upstanding.

You're a dying breed lad. Keep drinking the union jack kool aid.

Fratton Fred

I am pie wrote: »

I'm not interested in the territorial issue. In fairness both sides have a claim, however this is completely academic in terms of your ridiculous position.

Do regular postings usually involve newspaper coverage, i.e. propaganda ?

If you don't understand the subtleties of diplomatic tit for tat point scoring then that's your own lookout. In your facile world everything the British do is decent, fair and upstanding.

You're a dying breed lad. Keep drinking the union jack kool aid.

If all else fails, attack the poster.

Fratton Fred

gurramok wrote: »

I have. It was suggested that poppy wearing was not political. Just so happens that Britain had a military engagement with Argentina where said serving soldiers are funded from the sale of the poppy.

If the poppy is worn by England in the Olympics, it would offend the Argentines. Likewise the Argentines imho should not mess about with their crests as its bringing politics over the Malvinas into the Olympics.

Its Las Malvinas, or the Falklands. Mixing the two is grammatically incorrect.

Britain won't be wearing the poppy at the olympics, so any comparisons are pointless.

I am pie

Fratton Fred wrote: »

If all else fails, attack the poster.

Nice one, ignore every part of the post(s) referring to diplomatic tit for tat, pretend that 'Wills' is just one of the boys, ignore the sensitivities of a whole country in terms of what loosing a war means then cry ad hominen on the basis of an off the cuff remark.

Sounds like your position is increasingly feeble to me.

Fratton Fred

I am pie wrote: »

Nice one, ignore every part of the post(s) referring to diplomatic tit for tat, pretend that 'Wills' is just one of the boys, ignore the sensitivities of a whole country in terms of what loosing a war means then cry ad hominen on the basis of an off the cuff remark.

Sounds like your position is increasingly feeble to me.

The Falklands war was 30 years ago. It was a disaster for a hugely unpopular regime. So much so they were overthrown.

The Argentinians have got over it, they have moved on.

Please, do the same.

Dr Galen

I've deleted a number of posts from this thread for being OT and dragging this thread into another thread about the Poppy etc.

Sure, there is a linkage between all sorts of symbols, but people need to stick to the substantive point of the thread, not go off on a "hobby horse" topic of their own choosing.

Cheers

DrG

trendyvicar

JustinDee wrote: »

Meaning what exactly?


How were the Junta in any of these countries not fascistic in their method and/or ideology?

Your posts are reading like being written by someone taking the contrarian line in order to get a rise.
All very familiar . . .

Murder is a legal term and differs from state to state.

The states involved were not of the classic fascist character - they could be described more accurately as authoritarian conservative underpinned by a conservative Catholic hierarchy.

Your last comments are completely worthless - if you find different opinions a problem, I suggest you find another hobby.

JustinDee

trendyvicar wrote: »

Murder is a legal term and differs from state to state

If anyone is looking for a definition of convenient subjectivity, see above.

trendyvicar wrote: »

The states involved were not of the classic fascist character - they could be described more accurately as authoritarian conservative underpinned by a conservative Catholic hierarchy

Weak bandying about of any semantics involving fascism or even facets and forms of fascism.

trendyvicar wrote: »

Your last comments are completely worthless - if you find different opinions a problem, I suggest you find another hobby.

Well, not really. Its just obvious, thats all.

junder

I am pie wrote: »

Nice one, ignore every part of the post(s) referring to diplomatic tit for tat, pretend that 'Wills' is just one of the boys, ignore the sensitivities of a whole country in terms of what loosing a war means then cry ad hominen on the basis of an off the cuff remark.

Sounds like your position is increasingly feeble to me.

The Falklands are part of the UK which means the uk government can send whoever they please to serve there, the fact that Argentina is intimidated by an unarmed search and rescue helicopter flown by William, is in reality their problem. After all they were not to bothered about sensitivities of people when they were writing messages to Williams uncle on the bombs they were dropping on British navy ships.
in actual fact we should be sorry for William, just newly married young man gets posted to the arse end of no where.

BlaasForRafa

JustinDee wrote: »

If anyone is looking for a definition of convenient subjectivity, see above.


Weak bandying about of any semantics involving fascism or even facets and forms of fascism.



Well, not really. Its just obvious, thats all.

A new sign up posting in favour of the argentinian and chilean juntas? nothing suspicious about that surely?