Air rifle V .22 opinion and licence advice?

Fiachra cork

Hi all, my predicament is this. I always wanted an air rifle to start with and will probably proceed down this road although I had a go of a .22 over the weekend so anything less powerful will probably be a real let down.

Ive joined the local gun club who are really really relaxed which is cool, and I'm filling out the application form so it will be ready to go when I get my NARGC membership. However, if I proceed with the air rifle, what would you advise I write in section 4.2 (FCA1 form) ' Please explain on a separate sheet, why this specific firearm is required'

I intend to shoot bunny's, rats pigeons etc with it. Does anyone know if I should or should not include this information on the form or just write that I intent to partake in club events? Ive heard say that air rifles shouldn't be used to kill animals but I don't know if this is actually law or just based on individual interpretation.

Finally - are they actually ANY good - There's plenty of posts & videos on English sites of people shooting rabbits with air rifles but you know the Internet - If ye looked up You tube you'd probably find people killing deer with catapults (No I haven't tried)

So'

1. Am I ruining my chances if I say that I'm using the gun for vermin control?
2. Is it enough just to be part of a club?
3. I'd like to hear your opinions (based on experience) of air rifles - I know many of ye are into shooting big stuff, but I'll mostly be walking around fields stalking (rabbits) and taking shots at magpies, pigeons etc around neighbors farms/sheds etc.

Thanks again for all your previous tips and advice - especially to Aurin for taking me out - My head is wrecked now though!!

murph226

I am getting a .22 air rifle soon myself, more convenient for me than a cartridge firearm at the moment.

Very quiet, ammo is dirt cheap, have an alotment for growing fruit and veg, handy for dealing with vermin down there.

For what you will be using it for I would say go for the air rifle.

I know you can get mods and subsonic ammo and rat shot, but I think an air rifle would be more suitable for your intended use.

I'm sure there will be plenty of lads come along and tell you get a real gun:rolleyes:

There is a good airgun forum on Thehuntinglife.com, worth a look if seeking info on air rifles.

Best of luck with whatever you choose!

fodda

Some of my happiest shooting days with an air rifle and wish i had one now as there would be a lot more places i could use it safely. Would have one tomorrow if i could.

Fiachra cork

Thanks lads - there is a lot of 'Real gun stuff coming at me and I can understand why - especially after trying one - I'm just not sure about the application though? I suppose all I can do is put in the application and hope for the best! Otherwise, Ide say I'd be happy with an air rifle - I put a deposit on a Weihrauch HW 97 K if that means anything to ye - by all accounts they're meant to be a decent gun as far as single shot air rifles go. It was going second hand in a local gun shop - I was fairly surprised to see it there to be honest - my feeling is though that someone got it for the same reasons as myself and then got pissed off!! - I'm easily pleased though.

murph226

If you are going to be in and around neighbours sheds/property and your other permissions, how do they feel about the noise?

Is there any livestock around?

If so, can you afford a moderator or more importantly will you get approved for one be your local super?

The 97k has a good reputation, can't go far wrong there!

beretta686s

i have a hw 95.22, used to have a hw 77 aswell the cheapest shooting ull get and great fun to boot,rabbits rats pigeons crows mags its no bother to them

fodda

Just had a read on it.........Looks great, i had the HW80 and that was brilliant when tuned up.

kildare.17hmr

for around the allotment and sheds an air rifle is your only man!! you wont go wrong and will get hour of fun out of it!

Sure you might want a real gun but nothing to say you cant have both;)

murph226

Have a HW100t on the way, love the look of the sporter stock but the I'm gonna be shooting it not looking at it.

Fiachra cork

Thats brilliant lads - my mind is put to some ease regards killing ability however - what about the licensing issue - What do ye suggest I say on the form - What will I be using it for? Maybe there is no issue and its reasonable to say that I'll be partaking in local gun club activities (I'd hardly be out on a pigeon shoot when everyone else are using shot guns) and vermin control - do I say I'll be using it to hunt rabbits? Like I said, maybe there is no issue but what have ye all done - the people who had air guns?

extremetaz

another vote for the air rifle here.

Have a HW100T FAC in .177.
The auld boy has a HW100KT in .22, and a HW90 in .177.

All crackin' machines, cheap to feed (€16 for 500 of the very best), plenty accurate for the ranges involved, and no shortage of power if you place the lead correctly.

As for the form - you're in a club so apply for target use. If you want to include a land portfolio, you can also cite pest control but either/or is sufficient.

extremetaz

oh - and by-the-by - if you do look towards the HW100's, then go for a Karbine model.

It's nice to have the extra poke in the FAC versions sure enough, but for carrying through the fields and shooting offhand, the 'K's are a FAR nicer rifle to handle - and as long as your shooting is up to scratch, you genuinely won't miss the power.

CamperMan

fodda wrote: »

Just had a read on it.........Looks great, i had the HW80 and that was brilliant when tuned up.

The HW80 is great, had a couple over the years, now I use a Browning Gold Hunter air rifle.. it would be nice to have a proper rifle but for now, the air rifle will do me.

brian_t

Fiachra cork wrote: »

1. Am I ruining my chances if I say that I'm using the gun for vermin control?

If you google "Information on Firearms Licensing" you will get a link to a Word Doc. with the same name issued by "www.justice.ie"

The document is out of date but it does include the following:

Air Rifles
Firearms certificates for air rifles are granted by the Superintendent of your local police district. These weapons are dangerous and can only be used for target practice purposes; they can never be used to shoot small animals, birds or protected species of wildlife. You will be required to complete an application form in the presence of the Garda on duty who will forward your application to the Superintendent and make recommendations on your application. The Superintendent will grant or refuse your application.

Fiachra cork

The document is out of date but it does include the following:

Air Rifles
Firearms certificates for air rifles are granted by the Superintendent of your local police district. These weapons are dangerous and can only be used for target practice purposes; they can never be used to shoot small animals, birds or protected species of wildlife.

Yep - came across this at one staage or another and its what has me worried - in saying that, not sure of its validity? If it was really true I'd say there would be hardly any air rifles in the country - for eg the people who have replied to my posts - but... just not sure - thanks for rooting it out all the same.

pugw

Just my 2 cents here now but I would think twice about spending a lot of money on a new air rifle as you would probably find it hard to sell if you decide to trade up to a rifle or shotgun down the line! There is probably loads of great second hand bargins out there to be had. I know a lad that spent the price of a new cz on one and no1 was interested in taking it in as a trade when he went to move up to a shotgun! In fairness an air rifle lets you do a lot more around farm buildings etc that you cant do with a .22 (shooting pigeons from rafters etc!)

lefthooker

I started off with air rifles when i got into shooting, firstly with a Gamo Hunter 1250 before moving on to a Gunpower SSS. Looking back now i consider it as time wasted. My experience says they're WAY over priced and your kinda stuck with the 1 dealer then. A basic BB air rifle new costs as much or more as a good .22 And reloading for every shot becomes a pain in the ass in a single shot model. A pump or divers bottle for a PCP only adds to the cost and your not likely to see it when you trade. The only benefit i can see is cheap ammo. I primarily bought 1 for taking pigeons from the beams in the sheds around the farm but the .22lr takes care of that job now, CB longs and a mod does the job of a FAC rated air rifle. And always the option to use subs or hi velocity bullets in the field.
WISH I HAD STARTED WITH A RIMFIRE

Fiachra cork

Thanks lads - I have to weigh everything up as you can imagine. Your advice/opinions are valid and welcome - The only thing is that I won't be buying new although I could easily get a decent rimfire for the same price.

fodda

Fiachra cork wrote: »

Thanks lads - I have to weigh everything up as you can imagine. Your advice/opinions are valid and welcome - The only thing is that I won't be buying new although I could easily get a decent rimfire for the same price.

They have actually answered your question here.........If you go for an air rifle you will most certainly pick one up for a song because as they say.....they have very little secondhand value:)

If we all purchased on what we could sell it for, then we would buy nothing.

brian_t

Fiachra cork wrote: »

eg the people who have replied to my posts

As far as I can see only one poster referenced putting vermin control down on the form.
I think you would be safer to put down Target Practice.

Witcher

You can only put down target shooting if it's specifically a target club can't you? ie. you can't be a member of a game club and put down target shooting?

Odysseus

Fiachra cork wrote: »

Thats brilliant lads - my mind is put to some ease regards killing ability however - what about the licensing issue - What do ye suggest I say on the form - What will I be using it for? Maybe there is no issue and its reasonable to say that I'll be partaking in local gun club activities (I'd hardly be out on a pigeon shoot when everyone else are using shot guns) and vermin control - do I say I'll be using it to hunt rabbits? Like I said, maybe there is no issue but what have ye all done - the people who had air guns?

I put down hunting vermin with on my applications, bunnies etc. Unless you are in a target club you can't state target. I also have a 12g and a .17hmr but I still have great fun with the air rifle. Best of luck with your application.

kenelvpres

Don't mean to sound like a know all, but if you get into the shooting and develop a serious interest I think you will tire of the air rifle very quickly. A 17hmr is a superb choice for vermin and rabbits. Deadly accurate and cheap rounds. If it's foxes you want the .223 Remington 700 or a Tika .223 would be my choice. Re stating that you want the air rifle or rifle to shoot vermin I don't think that will go against you. The Gardai quite rightfully want to establish why exactly you want/ need the gun. I have held a firearms licence 25 years and I have always found them to be fair and realistic in dealing with the applications. In a nut shell, tell the truth and I'm not suggesting you wouldn't. One other point, if you intend fitting a silencer /moderator to your firearm in the near future , make sure to tick this box in your application or you will have to re-apply all over again later for this option. Wish you years of enjoyment at the shooting. It's a great interest and past time. Think every time before you pull that trigger though and be certain of where your bullet will end up. A passed over shot is a lot easier to live with than a heavy conscience and all the trouble that goes with it. Don't mean to be patronising my friend. I think shooting is a bit like learning to drive.. Your just much more likely to make mistakes starting out and guns are damn unforgiving. Best of luck n happy hunting!

Fiachra cork

Thanks again for all our comments - I spoke to a local Gard last night about this section of the application - I'm sure each station/area is different - he was so relaxed I don't think there's going to be a problem here but lets hope.....

I'm going to ignore all your sound advice and go for the air rifle - Yes you can laugh at me in a few months when I put up posts about how to shoot ANYTHING with an airgun!!

extremetaz

kenelvpres wrote: »

Don't mean to sound like a know all, but if you get into the shooting and develop a serious interest I think you will tire of the air rifle very quickly.

I respectfully disagree - if you get the right air rifle, it will serve you just as well as any .22LR.

I would concede that break barrells etc... can get tiresome - but a mag fed PCP is a whole world apart.

Granted, you'll (very) easily get a .22LR for a lot less, but I'd still endorse the air rifle even if for no other reason than to learn the fundamentals without having to worry about recoil so much.


re: shooting vermin - my father had pest control on his air rifle app, along with the appropriate land portfolio and had no problems whatsoever.

extremetaz

lefthooker wrote: »

I primarily bought 1 for taking pigeons from the beams in the sheds around the farm but the .22lr takes care of that job now,

what's stopping those bullets if you miss??

Fiachra cork

extremetaz wrote: »

re: shooting vermin - my father had pest control on his air rifle app, along with the appropriate land portfolio and had no problems whatsoever.

I'd be inclined to agree - I just hope your right about the above.. It's been delivered now anyhow so its in the bag - went through it with a Garda at the station, seemed sound enough and he told me to put down 'shooting vermin'. He's not the super obviously but he nor the other Gard (also present) had heard of any problems with this issue - Fingers crossed

Just can't wait to get going at this stage.....Time will tell

lefthooker

extremetaz wrote: »

what's stopping those bullets if you miss??

The sheets obviously, the same stuff that stops an air rifle pellet should you miss

It wasn't me!

Air rifle is a seriously handy and valuable tool for a few different purposes. It's not a cartridge firearm and it's not going to do the work of a .22LR, but if you think of it within its useful performance envelope, it's superb. I'd love one for plinking and cheap rabbit shooting and stalking, but while with a .22 or a .17 you have some limited scope for opportunistic foxes and the like, you have to know the limitations of an airgun. That said, I've every intention of doing some real field testing sometime soon so will know more after that.

The Big Fella

It wasn't me! wrote: »

you have some limited scope for opportunistic foxes and the like, you have to know the limitations of an airgun.

Get out and knock the foxes with the 25-06.;)

It wasn't me!

The Big Fella wrote: »

Get out and knock the foxes with the 25-06.;)

Nobody looking for me to do it at the moment and I've no major interest in throwing lead at them otherwise.

The Big Fella

It wasn't me! wrote: »

Nobody looking for me to do it at the moment and I've no major interest in throwing lead at them otherwise.

Ive too many farmers asking me to shoot them.:D

extremetaz

lefthooker wrote: »

The sheets obviously, the same stuff that stops an air rifle pellet should you miss

Think you'll find you'll stop an air rifle pellet a lot easier than a .22lr. Was just confirming that you had a suitable backstop.

On another note - I've attached a youtube link that does a pretty good job of showing the accuracy that an air rifle is capable of. It should also be noted that this range is well inside the effective range for bunnies at the UK licence free limit of 12ft.lbs. You can skip to 1m50 to avoid all the waffle if desired.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=C9KbBk_6Si4

lefthooker

extremetaz wrote: »

Think you'll find you'll stop an air rifle pellet a lot easier than a .22lr.

Yes absolutely, if the air rifle is at the 12ft/lb limit.

Let me give you some figures;
I had a Gunpower SSS, Gunpower rate it at upto 60ft/lbs @ around 980fps. I can't remember it putting a hole in a sheet ever but it would leave a good dent. Most subs are around the 1040fps mark.
CB Long is rated at 33ft/lbs @ around 725fps.
And if you can find it Aguila Super Colibri is 11ft/lbs @550fps.
So as you can see the PCP rifle i had was way more powerful than the CB long cartridges that i now use. Penetrating corrugated sheet or similar is only an an issue at very close or point blank range as far as i see

rsole1

Fiachra Cork. I have a HW97K with a Simmons 6-18x40 scope fitted. Springer air rifles take a bit more getting used to than a 22lr. I manage to hit magpies, crows and jackdaws out to a max of 50 yards, but it has to be a still day with no wind. I have a 20g shotgun as well so between the two I have most of my needs covered.

Now we'll have people saying "why have you got a 20g, a 12 is better".

Good luck with your air rifle.

rsole1

Also meant to say that the HW 97K seems to like RWS superpoint and the superdome pellets.

extremetaz

@ Lefthooker: Apologies - I wasn't aware that the muzzle energy of CB ammo was so low. Sounds like a fairly ideal tool at that.

That SSS is a bit of a beast if she's delivering that sort of power - HW I have is at 16ft.lb and the auld boys' '90 is around the 24ft.lb mark.

rsole1

extremetaz wrote: »

@ Lefthooker: Apologies - I wasn't aware that the muzzle energy of CB ammo was so low. Sounds like a fairly ideal tool at that.

That SSS is a bit of a beast if she's delivering that sort of power - HW I have is at 16ft.lb and the auld boys' '90 is around the 24ft.lb mark.

What groupings are you getting with the HW at 50yds and what pellets?

extremetaz

rsole1 wrote: »

What groupings are you getting with the HW at 50yds and what pellets?

Haven't put a group on paper at 50 yards yet - need to get to a range.
On a calm day she'll take a 40mm spinner every time at that distance though.

Only proper paper work I've done so far is at 25m where it drops them pellet on pellet everytime if you do your part. We're talking 6mm groups edge to edge on 5 shots.

That's with JSB Exact heavies.

Coriolanus

Fiachra cork wrote: »

Finally - are they actually ANY good - There's plenty of posts & videos on English sites of people shooting rabbits with air rifles but you know the Internet - If ye looked up You tube you'd probably find people killing deer with catapults (No I haven't tried)

I love the internet. Not sure I love this though.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hFGGKU19HlY

Repins

Hi Taz,

Where did you get the jsb heavys from.

Thanks

extremetaz

Repins wrote: »

Hi Taz,

Where did you get the jsb heavys from.

Thanks

Intershoot, up North.

Repins

Great Thanks.

Vegeta

brian_t wrote: »

If you google "Information on Firearms Licensing" you will get a link to a Word Doc. with the same name issued by "www.justice.ie"

The document is out of date but it does include the following:

Air Rifles
Firearms certificates for air rifles are granted by the Superintendent of your local police district. These weapons are dangerous and can only be used for target practice purposes; they can never be used to shoot small animals, birds or protected species of wildlife. You will be required to complete an application form in the presence of the Garda on duty who will forward your application to the Superintendent and make recommendations on your application. The Superintendent will grant or refuse your application.

There are certain species that cannot be shot with air rifles but there are species which can be, rabbits are legal and any bird species in the derogations can be shot too.

OP put down hunting on the license form, you will be using it for hunting so just put down your NARGC gun club membership (as it's a hunting club).

I have used a 12 ft/lb and a 30 ft/lb air rifle pretty extensively (my dad still has the 30 ft/lb rifle) and they are brilliant. I'd recommend one as a beginner rifle because they can be shot at ground and perched targets.

Fiachra cork

Thanks a million lads - The licence came through last Thursday! Thats a total of 9 days including the weekend and payment at the post office - I'm like a kid with a new toy - great buzz. Only had a chance to get out once over the weekend and not a single bunny did I see!! Ive no idea what the power of the rifle is except that I'm pretty sure its above the UK 12 lb limit. It will take me some time to get used to shooting straight but am having a bit of a laugh with it so far..

Thanks again for your comments/advice. The only pellets yer man had in the shop were Gama ones so.. we'll see.:pac::pac::pac:

extremetaz

Fiachra cork wrote: »

Thanks again for your comments/advice. The only pellets yer man had in the shop were Gama ones so.. we'll see.

Gamo don't tend to be any good - and I could use far more succint terms without feeling guilty about it.

Bisley Accupel
JSB Exact
Daystate Rangemaster
RWS "Field" range pellets

..there are others but I can't call them to mind right now I'm afraid.

Go for the best you can find in any case - You're far better spending an extra €5-6 per tin and getting pellets that you can actually place reliably, than buying the cheaper stuff and having no idea where it's gonna land.

Vegeta

Always found Crossman pellets good

extremetaz

Vegeta wrote: »

Always found Crossman pellets good

Crossman Premier - good man! Couldn't think of them for the life of me.

Fiachra cork

extremetaz wrote: »

Gamo don't tend to be any good

This is not the first time I've heard this! It's amazing that the company even exists! Thanks - I have the rifle a couple of weeks now and have done a bit of plinking - just getting used to the whole thing. Havin a laugh with it really but accuracy leaves a lot to be desired. Ive placed the gun on a solid table with a rolled up old curtain under the muzzle for support (to check the zeroing - as Ive been missing things I shouldn't be). I'm slightly worried as even at about ten yards I'm not hitting a particular point eg a cross on a piece of paper. It's not totally desperate but not very consistent. I'm hoping its the pellets - oh the joy of it - I'll hopefully get the rellies to bring some decent pellets down for Christmas so I'll have a better idea then.

I suppose its a slow, long learning curve but I've missed two rabbits that were well within 25 meters - prob around 20 meters.

kildare.17hmr

did someone set it up for you lad. As in put the scope on properly? I Wouldnt rest the muzzle on anything ether you should use the stock. Got any pics of the groups your getting? Consistency will come with time and practice so get out as much as you can and practice!

extremetaz

Don't recall if you mentioned what exact machine you got but if it's a springer or a gas ram, it won't work well left in direct contact with a rest.

You'll have to support it with your hand and a "compliant" but consistent hold.

There's a great thread on the hunting life forum about the particulars of shooting with springers - will try and find a link for you tomorrow if I get a minute.


edit: Found it. (I hope I'm not upsetting anyone linking to another forum, but Pianoman really is "the man" where shooting springers is concerned.)
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