㋛ UEFA EURO 2012 ❀╮Group Draw ╭❀ 2nd December 17:00

darkman2

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qiYLqSvgep8

5 days to go until our fate becomes clearer in the group stage draw on Friday. The finals draw will be held in Kyiv. There is a few intriguing possibilities for us. What group would represent the best hope for us? What group would you be dreading?

The seedings

Pot 1: Spain, Netherlands, Poland, Ukraine

Pot 2: Germany, Italy, England, Russia

Pot 3: Croatia, Greece, Portugal, Sweden

Pot 4: Denmark, France, Czech Republic, Republic of Ireland


The best IMO Poland
Russia
Greece
Ireland

The worst Spain
Germany
Portugal
Ireland




Also a big thing is where Ireland will be based. Fingers crossed for Poland. Large distances involved if Ireland progress if they are based in Ukraine.


What do you think?

Ganymede Glow

I reckon we'll draw

Netherlands
Italy
Croatia
Rep Of Ireland

eugeneious

Wouldn't mind getting Sweden. A win over them could give us a phycological advantage over them heading into the WC qualifiers but the groups you've posted would probably be the best/worst case scenarios.

Phoenix Park

I'd rather draw Italy than Russia.

darkman2

Ganymede Glow wrote: »

I reckon we'll draw

Netherlands
Italy
Croatia
Rep Of Ireland

That would be almost as difficult as having Spain and Germany in our group tbh. I would fancy us against Italy. Croatia are a dark horse. Don't fancy drawing them.

Wouldn't mind England in our group.

madma

we'll get italy, with trap against his country be deadly if we do

MagicMarker

2-0 Ireland.

Ganymede Glow

darkman2 wrote: »

That would be almost as difficult as having Spain and Germany in our group tbh. I would fancy us against Italy. Croatia are a dark horse. Don't fancy drawing them.

Everyone talks about drawing Poland/Ukraine and tbh I hope we do but I just cant see it happening. Nobody ever mentions us drawing Holland which we have done quite often at tournaments so I think it will be us and them again. Cant really hide from the good teams in this as its littered with them

steelcityblues

Don't know why everyone is speculating about best and worst.

We are going to face some heavyweight nations, and the past has shown we can raise our game against those type of teams. Have a bit more pride and belief, lads!

Morzadec

steelcityblues wrote: »

Don't know why everyone is speculating about best and worst.

We are going to face some heavyweight nations, and the past has shown we can raise our game against those type of teams. Have a bit more pride and belief, lads!

Agree with the sentiment, I think we can give a lot of the so-called 'top' nations a good game.

However, I wouldn't include Spain in this. I also think Germany and Holland would be really difficult.

Avoid Spain and Holland in pot 1, and Germany in pot 2 and I'm delighted

cson

steelcityblues wrote: »

Don't know why everyone is speculating about best and worst.

We are going to face some heavyweight nations, and the past has shown we can raise our game against those type of teams. Have a bit more pride and belief, lads!

Because realistically we're going there to make up the numbers. I think every team in Pot 1/2/3 would want us as the 4th team.

But I'm cool with that; we're good away from home and as underdogs most of the time. I don't think we'll be going any farther than the group stage but I'll be cheering on the team as much as the next guy.

steelcityblues

cson wrote: »

Because realistically we're going there to make up the numbers. I think every team in Pot 1/2/3 would want us as the 4th team.

But I'm cool with that; we're good away from home and as underdogs most of the time. I don't think we'll be going any farther than the group stage but I'll be cheering on the team as much as the next guy.

This is the typical Irish inferiority complex at work, though. I am one of those who wants our team to do well, at this tournament. Other smaller nations in the past: (Denmark 1992, Czechs 1996, Croatia 1998, Greece 2004), show that you can leave your mark on a major tournament.

Yes, there are some dangerous teams on offer, but lets go out there with a ruthless attitude.

curry-muff

steelcityblues wrote: »

Don't know why everyone is speculating about best and worst.

We are going to face some heavyweight nations, and the past has shown we can raise our game against those type of teams. Have a bit more pride and belief, lads!

What's the problem with speculating on best and worst we all know what Ireland can do, I don't see any problem in pointing out the best/worst case scenarios.

the realpigiron

Morzadec wrote: »

Agree with the sentiment, I think we can give a lot of the so-called 'top' nations a good game.

However, I wouldn't include Spain in this. I also think Germany and Holland would be really difficult.

Avoid Spain and Holland in pot 1, and Germany in pot 2 and I'm delighted

Yeah I'd agree with that. I think Russia might have a good tournament too, with the games being played in neighbouring countries perhaps an advantage to them. I'd like Poland, England and Greece.

I think we could turnover England. The top English players often don't turn up for these tournaments at the end of a long hard club season. We've heard about the general lack of commitment with English players from Gary Neville and Paul Scholes recently. Also Rooney won't be available for the opening group games. The Irish lads will be up for it, you can guarantee that.

Germany and Spain are clearly the top teams in the competition, we could do with avoiding those two in the group stages.

Dotrel

I think you'd have to want to avoid Spain/Holland in favour of Poland/Ukraine but after that it doesn't really concern me too much who we get as they'll all be quite good teams in Pot 2 and 3.

IMHO Poland and Ukraine have done nothing to get this far and are just going to collapse like hosts Austria/Switzerland did 4 years ago and I'd be more than happy to be one of the teams that benefits as a result of it.

cournioni

It doesn't particularly matter who they draw. Any team will be tough at European Championship level. I think ireland will do well though. When it comes to knockout competitions like these, Ireland always plays well. We are hard to beat and that gives us a chance.

I reckon we'll make the quarters or semi finals.

kippy

I'd honestly hope to get the so called group of death.
Why?
Well, we have no chance of winning the tournament (even if we did, at some point along the way we would have to beat the so called "big" teams anyway")
Once we accept that, we need to ask ourselves what do we need to take from the tournament. Over the years, the memorable Irish performances have been when we get a result against one of the big boys. I want to see us play the best teams in the tournament and see how it pans out for us.

cournioni

I'd love us to get England by the way. I reckon that we would beat them.

cson

steelcityblues wrote: »

This is the typical Irish inferiority complex at work, though. I am one of those who wants our team to do well, at this tournament. Other smaller nations in the past: (Denmark 1992, Czechs 1996, Croatia 1998, Greece 2004), show that you can leave your mark on a major tournament.

Yes, there are some dangerous teams on offer, but lets go out there with a ruthless attitude.

It's not an inferiority complex at all; it's called rationality.

I'm too young to remember Euro 1992, but the Czech's and Croatia had some very talented players in those sides [Nedved was heading towards the peak of his powers, Suker was a proven and lethal goalscorer for Real for example] whilst Greece pulled off one of the most tactically adept displays of arguably any team ever in a major tournament given the playing resources they had.

Ultimately if we're going to get out of the group then we're going to have to adopt the Greek approach which I think Trappatoni has shown is his style in any case. Overall I don't think we're defensively tight enough to pull it off.

Of course, I do hope we are though.

Kidchameleon

kippy wrote: »

Well, we have no chance of winning the tournament

Actually we have a 1 in 16 chance, same as Spain, Germany and the same chance Greece had in 2004

Kidchameleon

cournioni wrote: »

I reckon we'll make the quarters or semi finals.

Christ the thoughts of getting there, I'd be so so happy. The atmosphere in the knockout stages of the Euro's is electric.

Zebra3

steelcityblues wrote: »

Don't know why everyone is speculating about best and worst.

We are going to face some heavyweight nations, and the past has shown we can raise our game against those type of teams. Have a bit more pride and belief, lads!

One thing raising your game, another thing actually being succesful.

Over ten years since Ireland beat anyone even half decent in a competitive game.

ArmaniJeanss

Zebra3 wrote: »

Over ten years since Ireland beat anyone even half decent in a competitive game.

I hear this phrase a lot and its annoys me. OK there's no marquee name in there, but there are plenty of victories where, in advance, we all talk about how dangerous the opposition are and then after Ireland beat them all credit is taken away in hindsight with a blithe 'they werent decent opposition' putdown.

We beat Slovakia in our dismal 2008 qualifying, (the bulk of a team who went on to beat Italy in WC2010, surely that makes them halfdecent) ; we beat Armenia home and away in this campaign, the second game when they were on a serious fcking roll ; we beat Estonia who were good enough to qualify for the playoffs ; France in 90 minutes in Paris (ok, I know).

No big names, but if you don't qualify you only get 1 big game a year against a top team, so going 7/8 years without winning one isn't that unusual.

Believe, and all that jazz.

JerryHandbag

We'll draw Poland and play them in the opening game of the tournament, where they will suffer from stagefright and we will achieve a smash and grab 2-0 win thanks to 2 late supersub goals from Stephen Hunt

Where we go from there though is anyones guess

Edit: Just realised Poland will be playing 2nd seeds first. Scratch that!

Paul Tergat

Kidchameleon wrote: »

Actually we have a 1 in 16 chance, same as Spain, Germany and the same chance Greece had in 2004

This is just not true at all. I assume what you mean is there are 16 teams and of those 1 will win. Ireland do not have a 1 in 16 chance of winning the tournament!

ArmaniJeanss

JerryHandbag wrote: »

Edit: Just realised Poland will be playing 2nd seeds first. Scratch that!

We could be the opening match; if we are drawn in Group A we could be A2 as that it is a seperate draw and nothing to do with the seedings.

i.e., if the group is Poland, Italy, Sweden, Ireland as per the seedings, there will then be another draw to see who is A2,A3,A4 and they'll be slotted into the fixture matrix accordingly.

JerryHandbag

ArmaniJeanss wrote: »

We could be the opening match; if we are drawn in Group A we could be A2 as that it is a seperate draw and nothing to do with the seedings.

i.e., if the group is Poland, Italy, Sweden, Ireland as per the seedings, there will then be another draw to see who is A2,A3,A4 and they'll be slotted into the fixture matrix accordingly.

Ah ok, thought we definitely had to be A4, B4 etc.

tolosenc

We won't be there to make up the numbers. Does anyone actually think we'll head out there and lose 3 matches?

My order of preference would have to be:
Poland, Ukraine, Spain, Holland
England, Italy, Russia, Germany
Greece, Sweden, Portugal, Croatia

I reckon if we get 2 of Greece, England or Poland we'll make the quarters. Let's hope they're practising penalties already!

Zebra3

ArmaniJeanss wrote: »

I hear this phrase a lot and its annoys me. OK there's no marquee name in there, but there are plenty of victories where, in advance, we all talk about how dangerous the opposition are and then after Ireland beat them all credit is taken away in hindsight with a blithe 'they werent decent opposition' putdown.

We beat Slovakia in our dismal 2008 qualifying, (the bulk of a team who went on to beat Italy in WC2010, surely that makes them halfdecent) ; we beat Armenia home and away in this campaign, the second game when they were on a serious fcking roll ; we beat Estonia who were good enough to qualify for the playoffs ; France in 90 minutes in Paris (ok, I know).

No big names, but if you don't qualify you only get 1 big game a year against a top team, so going 7/8 years without winning one isn't that unusual.

Believe, and all that jazz.

Teams Ireland have lost to in play-offs:Spain, Belgium, Turkey, France.

Teams Ireland have beaten in play-offs:Iran, Estonia.

Since the WC in 2002, Ireland have failed to beat any team that were in the top 2 seeds in the group.

Slovakia were fourth seeds in the 2008 qualifiers when Ireland beat them, nearly 3.5 years before they played well at SA2010.

The phrase must annoy you because it's true.

The stats speak for themselves.

If anyone wanting Ireland to progress thinks it's better to draw Spain or the Netherlands instead of Poland or Ukraine, they are deluded.

briany

tolosenc wrote: »

We won't be there to make up the numbers. Does anyone actually think we'll head out there and lose 3 matches?

My order of preference would have to be:
Poland, Ukraine, Spain, Holland
England, Italy, Russia, Germany
Greece, Sweden, Portugal, Croatia

I reckon if we get 2 of Greece, England or Poland we'll make the quarters. Let's hope they're practising penalties already!

I like your optimism.

I'll be hopeful of the team's chances but not expectant. It doesn't really matter who Ireland get because the team will be tested no matter what. Russia showed that they could more or less walk through Ireland's midfield at will in the qualifiers and they are, on paper, the weakest of the third seeds so how would that change in the final tournament? Ireland do raise their game against bigger teams but that can only take the team so far if the system doesn't allow them to be a bit more proactive and take a game to the other team if and when Ireland go behind.

Realistically, I'd say that Ireland will go out after three games at last place in their group or tied for last place. However, that doesn't mean that they can't go out like New Zealand did last year at the WC, getting 3 hard fought draws and gaining respect as a dogged, prideful and tenacious team. Of course, if they make it to the quarters or beyond, I'll have no problem in being wrong.

ShooterSF

Kidchameleon wrote: »

Actually we have a 1 in 16 chance, same as Spain, Germany and the same chance Greece had in 2004

I'll have a tenner on Spain @ 15/1 please so.

kwestfan08

Speaking of betting Ireland are 75/1 to win it out with betfair. A cheeky €20 E/W perhaps at this early stage?

Also Sweden are 110/1 . Surely being in Pot 3 should lessen these odds a bit no?

http://sports.betfair.com/?ti=1&origin=LHMA

ShooterSF

kwestfan08 wrote: »

Speaking of betting Ireland are 75/1 to win it out with betfair. A cheeky €20 E/W perhaps at this early stage?

Also Sweden are 110/1 . Surely being in Pot 3 should lessen these odds a bit no?

http://sports.betfair.com/?ti=1&origin=LHMA

Betfair prices are determined by it's users isn't it?

kwestfan08

ShooterSF wrote: »

Betfair prices are determined by it's users isn't it?

Very correct actually. That would skew it alright. Ireland seem to be better priced though on most other betting sites than Sweden. Just seems unusual seeing as they are in Pot 3.

http://www.oddschecker.com/football/internationals/euro-2012/winner

Nalz

Ukraine, England and Sweden please

Don't want Spain, Nani&Ronaldo or Russia

The_Kew_Tour

If we can avoid Spain and Germany we have some chance of getting out of group.

We really will need to get 5 points to qualify me thinks so Ireland will really have have 3 decent games.

But man this position is much better then watching it at home with very little interest.

Only Irelands second time in competition so bring it one.

and for the more optimsitic people well the last two managers to win Euro's were the oldest and when France in 84 and Greece in 2004 won the Euros they did so of wait of 24 years since they were in competition last, like us.

Third time lucky eh;)

keane2097

People saying who they "think" we'll draw is tilting.

Ganymede Glow

Current odds at PP for outright winner

Spain - 5/2
Germany - 3/1
Holland - 7/1
England - 11/1
Italy - 12/1
France - 12/1
Portugal - 18/1
Russia - 25/1
Croatia - 33/1
Ukraine - 40/1
Ireland - 50/1
Denmark - 50/1
Sweden - 66/1
Poland - 66/1
Czech Rep - 66/1
Greece - 66/1

Dotrel

Ganymede Glow wrote: »

Current odds at PP for outright winner

Spain - 5/2
Germany - 3/1
Holland - 7/1
England - 11/1
Italy - 12/1
France - 12/1
Portugal - 18/1
Russia - 25/1
Croatia - 33/1
Ukraine - 40/1
Ireland - 50/1
Denmark - 50/1
Sweden - 66/1
Poland - 66/1
Czech Rep - 66/1
Greece - 66/1

England and Ireland both too high. That's what patriotism and obsession with the premiership can do to some peoples perception of reality.

mectavba

Russia 25/1.......might have me an each way on that.

Kidchameleon

Paul Tergat wrote: »

This is just not true at all. I assume what you mean is there are 16 teams and of those 1 will win. Ireland do not have a 1 in 16 chance of winning the tournament!

We have a chance though, however remote, there is always a chance, you cant deny that.

CSF

Dotrel wrote: »

England and Ireland both too high. That's what patriotism and obsession with the premiership can do to some peoples perception of reality.

You mean low?

Dotrel

CSF wrote: »

You mean low?

No, I mean their positions in that list are too high.

rovingrover

Zebra3 wrote: »

Slovakia were fourth seeds in the 2008 qualifiers when Ireland beat them, nearly 3.5 years before they played well at SA2010.

I think they were the 3rd seeds and we were 4th seeds and they are the only top 3 seed we have beaten since 2001.

gosplan

Drawing pol or ukr wouldn't be any huge help in terms of getting out of the group. We'd still need one giant result to progress like a win vrs Greece or Sweden or someone.

Dotrel

The Irish tradition of drawing against everyone from the best to the worst isn't going to work this time. We are going to have to end this 11 year run and at least beat someone if we hope to progress.

Zebra3

gosplan wrote: »

Drawing pol or ukr wouldn't be any huge help in terms of getting out of the group.

I disagree.

Strongly.

Eathrin

gosplan wrote: »

Drawing pol or ukr wouldn't be any huge help in terms of getting out of the group. We'd still need one giant result to progress like a win vrs Greece or Sweden or someone.

I'd go as far to say that our hopes of progression lie first and foremost with drawing Poland or Ukraine.

ScummyMan

I dont think Poland or Ukraine would be as easy as everyone is making out. Yes they are obviously a better draw than Spain/Netherlands, but often the hosts do very well in these tournaments. South Korea in the 2002 World Cup is a prime example. The hype in a country can really lift a team, its rare to see the hosts flop tbh.

That said, obviously they're an easier draw than Spain or Netherlands however!

Collie D

Kidchameleon wrote: »

Actually we have a 1 in 16 chance, same as Spain, Germany and the same chance Greece had in 2004

I'll take those odds on Spain and Germany and give you the same on Ireland.

Man.UnitedLad wrote: »

I dont think Poland or Ukraine would be as easy as everyone is making out. Yes they are obviously a better draw than Spain/Netherlands, but often the hosts do very well in these tournaments. South Korea in the 2002 World Cup is a prime example. The hype in a country can really lift a team, its rare to see the hosts flop tbh.

That said, obviously they're an easier draw than Spain or Netherlands however!

Switzerland and Austria flopped in last Euros..Switzerland finishing bottom with three points gained in last match against a weakened Portugal who were already guaranteed top spot and Austria getting one point against the bootom side which incidentally was Poland. Belgium failed to qualify from the group when they hosted it in 2000. Although that said as far as I know these were the only three hosts not to make knock-out rounds in either the Euros or World Cup.

For what it's worth I'm hoping for Poland as I don;t fancy Spain/Germany and don;t want to travel to Ukraine. Then England and not too pushed about third seed but Greece would be nice.

Another big hope for the draw is that there's no arsing about by Platini and a bunch of Polish/Ukrainian folk dancers and they just pull a few balls from pots.

Deeper Blue

Collie D wrote: »

Switzerland and Austria flopped in last Euros..Switzerland finishing bottom with three points gained in last match against a weakened Portugal who were already guaranteed top spot and Austria getting one point against the bootom side which incidentally was Poland. Belgium failed to qualify from the group when they hosted it in 2000. Although that said as far as I know these were the only three hosts not to make knock-out rounds in either the Euros or World Cup.

South Africa were another.


Can't wait for the draw. I have a feeling we'll draw England.