Bye bye cheap tax

vetstu

Front page of todays Sunday Times
General rise of 5%
But the lower bands getting hit by bigger rises.
Band A: 104-170
Band B: 156-200
Band C: 302-350

2.5c on fuel plus another 1.5-3c from carbon tax so 4-5.5c increase

About time the lower bands were risen anyway. Makes it slightly more equitable with the pre 08 rates.

-Chris-

Threads merged


http://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/aa-calls-on-govt-not-to-hike-motoring-taxes-529996.html

AA calls on Govt not to hike motoring taxes
Sunday, November 27, 2011 - 10:52 AM

AA Roadwatch is calling on the Government not to hit motorists with unrealistic car and fuel taxl hikes in next month's budget.

Reports today have claimed that drivers could be facing up to a 63% increase in road tax and an additional 4c per litre of petrol.

According to today's Sunday Times, the Government plan to increase motor tax by 5% generally, but greener and more efficient cars face a steeper increase.

Conor Faughnan of AA Roadwatch said these increases won't work.

"On paper it's a mechanism for pulling in more money, but if you up car tax and the cost of fuel you… up the cost of living for every family in the country.

"That money doesn't magically get created and given to Government, it gets taken from somewhere else, and spend elsewhere in the economy is reduced.

"You can't keep pushing up the cost for car users in the expectation of more money - you just depress the economy and you take money out of people's pockets."

Tax for band A cars will go up to €254170. The rest will increase by smaller amounts.

Well, who didn't see that coming??? :rolleyes:

Owen

vetstu wrote: »

2.5c on fuel plus another 1.5-3c from carbon tax so 4-5.5c increase

Great. Just great.

ojola

-Chris- wrote: »

http://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/aa-calls-on-govt-not-to-hike-motoring-taxes-529996.html





Tax for band A cars will go up to €254. The rest will increase by smaller amounts.

Well, who didn't see that coming??? :rolleyes:

Thanks for the info. Rip off Ireland living up to its reputation. We will all buy donkeys and ride to work instead.

Owen

That's different to the figures quoted in the other thread, they're saying on the Times that Band A will be 170 Euro.

peasant

Any mention of the old tax bands?

EDIT: oh ..I see ...+5%

W.Shakes-Beer

Great, nearly €580 a year now for tax, and about 1.55 - 1.60 for petrol.

Robbing bástards.

stimpson

Sunday Times has shock headline to sell papers. Oh. My. God.


I'll wait to hear it from the horses mouth.

johnos1984

I can live with the tax increase it's the fuel and carbon tax which is a killer.

johndaman66

About time the lower C02 bands were hit considerably. Still though something badly amiss when it costs €200 per annum to tax a 2008 BMW 520D and circa €650 per annum (assuming a 5% increase) to tax a 2007 model. They need to go back to the drawing board on that one I reckon.

Holistically with regards increases in motor tax and exise duty and carbon taxes and what not on fuel I believe the government (be it the last government) have passed the optimum balance point of maximising revenue some time back

racer1

More tax on fuel means nothing but higher prices in the shops...... less spending money for people and makes the economy less competitive... I just dont get goverenments with taxing fuel.... I suppose they dont have brains........

Mycroft H

Thats me back on the train so

The Government just have said goodbye to my contribution to tax coffers....

Max Power1

BX 19 wrote: »

Thats me back on the train so

The Government just have said goodbye to my contribution to tax coffers....

If an additional hundred or so (max) in tax plus 5cent/litre is the amount that pushes you over the edge perhaps you shouldnt be running a car at all. What happens when you need to spend money on routine servicing and maintenance for instance?

Nobody likes tax increases but they were inevitable. They were even in the program for government so we knew they were coming!. Its not enough of an increase in the lower emmissions bands imo, the situation is still too inequitable.

barura

Bawww, what's this? Tax goes up on a system they fusked up? We all saw it coming.

If the difference is breaking your back, I'm sorry to hear that, but where there is a will there is a way. Most people start acting like headless chickens when they hear a slight increase in Tax, rationalise your situation and see if it's worse, it probably isn't as bad as you thought.

In fairness, most of the people who complain will be the same who bought diesels because of the greater MPG, yet only do 8000 miles a year.

And before people go "They're robbing bastards!" did you do anything to try and stop it? More than likely, no, you didn't. If you did, at least you can say you tried.

And me? I guess this means less beering on the weekends. Oh no!

Mycroft H

Max Power1 wrote: »

If an additional hundred or so (max) in tax plus 5cent/litre is the amount that pushes you over the edge perhaps you shouldnt be running a car at all. What happens when you need to spend money on routine servicing and maintenance for instance?

You seem to forget that other cuts and increases in taxes are going to happen apart from just an increase in motor tax.

All these straws are going to break the camels back sometime soon.....


And as an aside, I already service the car myself and buy the parts online to save money

leonidas83

racer1 wrote: »

More tax on fuel means nothing but higher prices in the shops...... less spending money for people and makes the economy less competitive... I just dont get goverenments with taxing fuel.... I suppose they dont have brains........

well its no skin off their nose really, the ministers implementing these tax increases are already quite wealthy, get multiple times the average salary and will be very looked after with a generous pension. A little tax increase on their 200-300 euro road tax a year is nothing to them.

I do think labour are behind alot of these tax rises though, In a recession, you can either cut or increase taxes, labour dont want to cut anything, they want social welfare and public sector pay to remain amongst the highest in Europe.

But these tax rises will backfire tho, just wait and see

KTRIC

€73 for motorbike tax

NOW WHO'S LAUGHING !!!!

ShamoBuc

Owen wrote: »

That's different to the figures quoted in the other thread, they're saying on the Times that Band A will be 170 Euro.

Typical sensationalism/scaremongering by the papers - My guess is they are both wrong with their figures!!
I'll look back with interest when the budget comes out to see which paper actually got closer:)

-Chris-

Owen wrote: »

That's different to the figures quoted in the other thread, they're saying on the Times that Band A will be 170 Euro.

Oops, that's my bad maths - I added 63% to €156 rather than €104...

I'll edit my post.

Owen

Max Power1 wrote: »

If an additional hundred or so (max) in tax plus 5cent/litre is the amount that pushes you over the edge perhaps you shouldnt be running a car at all. What happens when you need to spend money on routine servicing and maintenance for instance

You do realise that not everyone out there has things as cushty as you? I know families at the moment who are walking everywhere because they're actually broke. Proper broke. The car is there for the absolute times when they have to make a longer trip, I know 2 families in this pretty sad situation.

'Perhaps you shouldn't be running a car at all' is a grand argument if you live in Dublin. If you're unlucky enough to be living in a small town, or in any other City, public transport is inefficient, doesn't cover half of the areas it needs to, and just isn't an option.

I hate generalisations where people assume just because things are grand for one section of the population that they're grand for all. There are a lot of people out there on the breadline at the moment with the banks down their throats - those are the people who've struggled to pay tax and put fuel in their cars. Now that the prices have gone up again, they'll most likely end up not paying tax, and risk impoundment. It's a screwed up country we live in, and the smartest thing the Government could have done would have been to reduce tax on older cars and give the poorer families a break for once.

Benny Cake

Any indication if the increase in fuel price will be the same for petrol & diesel?

Owryan

Can work with the rise in car tax and petrol was always likley to get a hit anywau but ffs its only just gone down to €1.43.5 in carlow.. Looks certain to be back over the €1.50 mark for xmas

JaneyMacker

Now you know not to fall for discounted introductory prices
Cheap tax, make people spend more on a new car, when you get enough of then, ride them as hard as you can.

BlackBlade

its all tax tax tax! kip...

seriously thinking about moving far away from this over taxed island!

BrianD3

http://www.rte.ie/news/2011/1127/budget.html

Phil Hogan quoted on RTE.ie as confirming that motor tax will increase but that the reports of increases being up to 63% are not true

Charity2020

vetstu wrote: »

Front page of todays Sunday Times
General rise of 5%
But the lower bands getting hit by bigger rises.
Band A: 104-170
Band B: 156-200
Band C: 302-350

2.5c on fuel plus another 1.5-3c from carbon tax so 4-5.5c increase

About time the lower bands were risen anyway. Makes it slightly more equitable with the pre 08 rates.

We will be back to where we started with vehicle tax.
all concessions will be clawed back.

kojack

Lets just say road tax goes up 5%. Im currently paying €614 per year which works about around €1.68 per day.

With a 5% increase it works out just shy of €645 per year or €1.77 per day so overall its only going to cost a massive €0.09 extra to enjoy my comfort.

TURRICAN

Let's all lie down and take it on the chin anyway.
The govt know that's all we are good for.
People need to grow some balls in this country before them pricks have us sucked dry.
Rant half over.

Mister Dread

I've given up on the tax. Just re-registered the car in the gfs name after not taxing it for 6 months. Saved over 600 quid. I'm going to just let that run out and then have it off the road the next time I tax it. **** em. I'm not paying more than 1290 for an old car when there are people dropping 25K on new cars and paying no tax.

Cork

It looks as if declarations of non use will bite the dust.

R P McMurphy

Diesel almost 1.50 this morning. Has the budget come early?

Joey the lips

It was a stupid move in terms of revenue by the govt to drop the rates and this was seen coming.

The sad thing is a lot of people lost a lot of money selling pre 08 cars. This off course effected car sales which again lost more money for the govt.

cloneslad

Anyone find it ironic that they are increasing the cars with low carbon emissions, yet adding a 'carbon tax' to fuel?

Why do they have to try and lie about the 'carbon tax'? It's obvious they don'[t give a shít about being green, so just come out and say it's a 'we need more money because the country is in the shítter tax'

Twiki

Mister Dread wrote: »

I'm not paying more than 1290 for an old car when there are people dropping 25K on new cars and paying no tax.

Don't know where you're getting that from. These people will have paid about 7000 in tax - everybody pays.

jimmynokia

plus a 4 cent rise in petrol and the greener cars will pay the most in tax hike
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?threadid=2056464306

Bullseye1

Carbon tax is the biggest joke ever. It's just a money grab. Instead of actually tackling the public expenditure they hammer those left of us still working and trying to make a living.

Mister Dread

Twiki wrote: »

Don't know where you're getting that from. These people will have paid about 7000 in tax - everybody pays.

They have paid **** all vrt and little road tax. I was one of htem for a while. Bought a 6 month old 5 series and paid 4.5K in vrt and 156 in tax. The new tax regime was just a nice little bonus for people sitting on cash.

Mar4ix

fec em, ive got bicycle

dissed doc

Looks like people with post-08 CO2 banded cars are the new public sector.

I wonder who will be the focus at next month's Hate Week?

R.O.R

Mister Dread wrote: »

Twiki wrote: »

Don't know where you're getting that from. These people will have paid about 7000 in tax - everybody pays.

They have paid **** all vrt and little road tax. I was one of htem for a while. Bought a 6 month old 5 series and paid 4.5K in vrt and 156 in tax. The new tax regime was just a nice little bonus for people sitting on cash.

You got it VAT free then? How did you manage that?

Mister Dread

R.O.R wrote: »

You got it VAT free then? How did you manage that?

6 month old import with 7,000 miles.

lomb

Im all for jacking up tax rates on low CO2 cars as CO2 is a fertilizer that encourages growth of plants and trees so they should be penalised for not emitting enough fertilizer:)
But for feck sake petrol and diesel taxes should be held, its expensive enough as it is.
In fairness road tax is not equitable and there is no reason a 50k BMW driver should pay 156 euros a year. More like 500 a year. Road tax should be based on list price imho. Say 1% PA.

barura

lomb wrote: »

Im all for jacking up tax rates on low CO2 cars as CO2 is a fertilizer that encourages growth of plants and trees so they should be penalised for not emitting enough fertilizer:)
But for feck sake petrol and diesel taxes should be held, its expensive enough as it is.
In fairness road tax is not equitable and there is no reason a 50k BMW driver should pay 156 euros a year. More like 500 a year. Road tax should be based on list price imho. Say 1% PA.

That is silly. I want leather seats and AC in my car so I have to pay more year in year out for it? That would leave cars without any resale value, and lots of underhand tax evasion. Ie. A car that costs 50k, person pays 20k and the other 30k as a donation into the company? Then they avoid huge amounts of tax.

lomb

barura wrote: »

That is silly. I want leather seats and AC in my car so I have to pay more year in year out for it? That would leave cars without any resale value, and lots of underhand tax evasion. Ie. A car that costs 50k, person pays 20k and the other 30k as a donation into the company? Then they avoid huge amounts of tax.

Yes, its called a property tax, and should be levied on the original manufactures list price so there can be no fraud.
The say 1% of original list encourages cars to be scrapped thus keeping the economy going in new car sales. Its actually quite an equitable solution. The CO2 roadtax system is a smokescreen, there is already a CO2 tax its called fuel tax and is and always was levied heavier on fuel inefficient cars.

dgt

barura wrote: »

That is silly. I want leather seats and AC in my car so I have to pay more year in year out for it? That would leave cars without any resale value, and lots of underhand tax evasion. Ie. A car that costs 50k, person pays 20k and the other 30k as a donation into the company? Then they avoid huge amounts of tax.

Audi TT seats fit on a 6n Polo

This is just bollóx. Hit the soft target, the motorist. No one has the balls to scrap the current system and implement it into the fuel.

It will just drive those of us that are in proximity to the border across it, where the fuels are generally of a far higher quality anyway to begin with

murphm45

lomb wrote: »

Yes, its called a property tax, and should be levied on the original manufactures list price so there can be no fraud.
The say 1% of original list encourages cars to be scrapped thus keeping the economy going in new car sales. Its actually quite an equitable solution. The CO2 roadtax system is a smokescreen, there is already a CO2 tax its called fuel tax and is and always was levied heavier on fuel inefficient cars.

I'm a bit unsure how this would encourage cars to be scrapped, surely the opposite would be true, car prices rarely drop so the tax on an old version of the same car would be lower. So from a cost point of view there would be no reason to buy a new car over a second hand one.

Also is it always the case that car that uses more fuel it produces more co2? i'm showing my ignorance i know but my gut tells me the answer mightn't be quite that clear cut.

The choice of system depends on what the purpose of it is, the value arguement makes sence if the only aim is to raise money. it means those who can pay more do.When the co2 system was introduced the aim was to try reduce the effect of motoring on the environment it also makes sence. the aim of the system are just different.

Personnally i think it should just be used for road maintence and building (and before anyone start i know the money goes to the county councils and pays for every service they provide), and based on my limited civil engineering knowledge that would mean it'd be based on the delivery weight. either way december 7th should be fun

teednab-el

Well my economic accessment is we are F**ked with a capital F and exclaimation mark. The last bunch of clowns in the government are responsible for all this. There is no way back. The new government have no choice. They have to find money somewhere.

Heroditas

dissed doc wrote: »

I wonder who will be the focus at next month's Hate Week?

Seeing as this is the Motors forum, let's go after the cyclists.

polod

Coming from a rural area in the middle of no-where, Diesel at my local today is €1.49.8, Im dreading this with the incease tax as i currently pay €164 every three months, I can see diesel in my area round €1.60 a litre in Janurary. Motorists being hit very hard this time. :eek:

lomb

murphm45 wrote: »

I'm a bit unsure how this would encourage cars to be scrapped, surely the opposite would be true, car prices rarely drop so the tax on an old version of the same car would be lower. So from a cost point of view there would be no reason to buy a new car over a second hand one.

Also is it always the case that car that uses more fuel it produces more co2? i'm showing my ignorance i know but my gut tells me the answer mightn't be quite that clear cut.

The choice of system depends on what the purpose of it is, the value arguement makes sence if the only aim is to raise money. it means those who can pay more do.When the co2 system was introduced the aim was to try reduce the effect of motoring on the environment it also makes sence. the aim of the system are just different.

Personnally i think it should just be used for road maintence and building (and before anyone start i know the money goes to the county councils and pays for every service they provide), and based on my limited civil engineering knowledge that would mean it'd be based on the delivery weight. either way december 7th should be fun

I think my basic point was that as the value of a used car drops to say 10% then the 1% of the original price tax seems like alot therefore encouraging new car sales. I suppose inflation adjusting the tax each year solves the problem of new car prices going up.

Yes the more the fuel thats burnt the more CO2 thats emitted. The chemical reaction is CH+02=C02+H20
Diesels emit less as diesel engines are more efficient than petrols but that can be sorted within the diesel price.

Voodoomelon

In regards the adding motor tax to fuel suggestion, which has been done to death by myself and so many others so many times, why, oh why, oh why would they just not do it?

It raises far more revenue, its fairer to every section of society and doesnt cripple anyone except those that you could argue deserve to pay more for their huge motor usage.

A few flaws have been pointed out folks on here, thats fine. But the current system is HUGELY flawed, why oh why won't they bloody well do it?!

Seriously, what goes on in these government meetings, are they so thick and lazy that all they can think of is to just increase everything? I mean is that really it, just too lazy, what is the reason?
These politicians are supposed to be the cream of the crop, the big thinkers, our elected representatives, why aren't they doing the logical things to sort things out?

Emails and letters are sent to them day in, day out with logical, thought out suggestions of how to properly overhaul the motor tax system and they just shred the lot and f**k them in the bin.

Pack of ****, I was under no illusions that anything would change in regards motor tax, I was 99% sure they'd just hike everything as they proposed a year ago, but that 1% of me was hopeful that they'd even half think about making it fairer. Shower of crooks.