Did people forget what driving a car is about?

Sobanek

I mean I know we're in bad times, but is it really worth buying a horrid diesel ecobox for 25k with a gutless 1 point something litre engine just to save those 700 quid? Don't you think you'd be better off with a 1996 2.5 litre car, pay 3000 for the car at most and buy another one after a while? I don't think those "savings" are really worth it.
Good thing some people think the same like my friend Przemek who got himself a nice 2001 M5
A car was designed for pleasure. Not for savings.

Voodoomelon

Each to their own. I like yourself would rather come down the years and spend the same money on something a lot more prestigious and powerful than your Irish special 1.6l Corolla or Golf.

But if someone wants a new car without insane running costs, who are you or I to tell them not to. The only issue I would have is buying a new car to save money, which is lunacy.

colm_mcm

more prestigious and powerful than your Irish special 1.6l Corolla or Golf?


1.6 in a small car like that? 1.4 will do ya

the_syco

Where I goto the gym, I regularly see a Ford Mustang parked there; and I'd get one if I had the money. I love the look of them

markfla

Mustang parked outside the Glenroyal??? nice blue one.

Victor Meldrew

Sobanek wrote: »

A car was designed for pleasure. Not for savings.

Actually, Transport. but buying a new car is quite irrational.

Cashflow is key here. a new or newish (less than 5 year old) basic car from a good manufacturer will not generate big bills which put the car on the scrap-heap.

I get what you say about an M5, but the fuel, tyres, servicing easily make the insurance and tax not that big a deal. and you can forecast all those.

try managing a transmission rebuild out of regualr cashflow.

I agree with your central point, but you can have lots of fun in a car that handles properly with a decent sized engine.

I remember having a Mk1 Focus with a 1.8 petrol motor. great craic in the highlands of scotland. good chassis, good (enough) engine. AFFORDABLE fun.

couldntthink

As a whole I don't think we are what you could call a car loving nation. There are many reasons for this IMO. Having a second "fun" car would be the best of the two worlds of economy vs fun. Our regulations on cars etc don't help. If you want a second car that is cheap and powerful to have a laugh with it's not very easy to do. A secondhand car with some power will be cheap, but as a second car you have to insure it seperately and pay tax for at least 3 months even if you only want to drive it 2-3 times a month. I always had fairly fast and thirsty cars. That is until I had a 450 mile commute every week for work. Then a 60mpg seat tdi made a whole lot more sense than a 20mpg 325.

EPM

Sobanek wrote: »

I mean I know we're in bad times, but is it really worth buying a horrid diesel ecobox for 25k with a gutless 1 point something litre engine just to save those 700 quid? Don't you think you'd be better off with a 1996 2.5 litre car, pay 3000 for the car at most and buy another one after a while? I don't think those "savings" are really worth it.
Good thing some people think the same like my friend Przemek who got himself a nice 2001 M5
A car was designed for pleasure. Not for savings.

An uncle of mine traded in a 2 year old Focus last year for a Fiesta diesel to save on road tax mainly. It would take about 20 years to make up the cost to change. And as he does tiny mileage it's not going to be saving him that much either.

I changed to a diesel recently but it's going to save me money over the next few years as I sold shares that I wouldnt otherwise have sold to pay for it...right before they dropped:cool: Between tax and fuel over the next 3 years it will save me about €10k compared to my old car, take into account the drop in the shares since the cost to change is covered too so I will work out in the same position as I was to begin with. That's rarely the case but I'm happy I changed to an econobox for the moment.

Anan1

couldntthink wrote: »

As a whole I don't think we are what you could call a car loving nation.

I think we have an odd relationship with cars here. Rather than wondering what our cars can do for us, we tend to fixate on what our cars say about us. In this regard, the Germans and the French, for example, are way ahead of us. It's not just down to income or VRT either - the Irish specify their cars with a definite bias towards bling. This is why almost every Golf here has metallic and alloy wheels, but you'll struggle to find one with genuinely useful kit like xenons or heated seats.

polod

Anan1 wrote: »

- the Irish specify their cars with a definite bias towards bling. This is why almost every Golf here has metallic and alloy wheels, but you'll struggle to find one with genuinely useful kit like xenons or heated seats.

Is there much of an advantage having xenons compared to osram night breakers plus ?

Id have alloys and metallic paint over heated seats :pac:

EPM

polod wrote: »

Is there much of an advantage having xenons compared to osram night breakers plus ?

Id have alloys and metallic paint over heated seats :pac:

There's a world of difference in the quality of the light - worth every penny imo.

If it was me I'd have the lot of them:p

166man

Anan1 wrote: »

I think we have an odd relationship with cars here. Rather than wondering what our cars can do for us, we tend to fixate on what our cars say about us. In this regard, the Germans and the French, for example, are way ahead of us. It's not just down to income or VRT either - the Irish specify their cars with a definite bias towards bling. This is why almost every Golf here has metallic and alloy wheels, but you'll struggle to find one with genuinely useful kit like xenons or heated seats.

I think many people are lower than the whole bling thing and it's the badge that matters, which is why baseline 1.4 VW Golfs are so popular in the mk 5 golf anyway. I agree though on the what our cars say about us though, it's very true for many people I know anyway.

John_Rambo

EPM wrote: »

An uncle of mine traded in a 2 year old Focus last year for a Fiesta diesel to save on road tax mainly. It would take about 20 years to make up the cost to change. And as he does tiny mileage it's not going to be saving him that much either

Bizarre. I know someone that spent a fortune on a diesel 520, they bus/cycle to work, the car is for shopping.

I cycle to work, so I got a 2.5 turbo estate car with 220 bhb for the weekend trips around the country. It would have cost me 9 to 10 K more to get the underpowered diesel equivalent.

RandomAccess

166man wrote: »

I think many people are lower than the whole bling thing and it's the badge that matters, which is why baseline 1.4 VW Golfs are so popular in the mk 5 golf anyway. I agree though on the what our cars say about us though, it's very true for many people I know anyway.

The 'badge purchase' argument about the Mk V Golf is overstated I think, it is and was a better car to own/drive than the majority of its rivals at the time. There is a lot more variety now than there was when it was introduced which I think shows in the reduced number of Mk 6 Golf's around.

If anything the Mk 6 is more of a badge purchase, GTi's aside, because by the time the Mk 6 came out there were some genuine competitors, Auris instead of Corolla, Hyundai i10, Kia Ceed, Scirocco, many more. Anyway some would say that Skoda sank the 'badge purchase' argument.

Just my 2 cents

Sobanek

Sobanek wrote: »

I mean I know we're in bad times, but is it really worth buying a horrid diesel ecobox for 25k with a gutless 1 point something litre engine just to save those 700 quid? .....................

Folks spending 25K on a car aren't suffering from the recession.
Folks who are suffering from the recession to a degree that their struggling to pay bill and feed the family aren't at all bothered about performance and "what driving a car is about" etc, many just need a cheap car to get from a to b that won't cost too much to run.

166man

RandomAccess wrote: »

The 'badge purchase' argument about the Mk V Golf is overstated I think, it is and was a better car to own/drive than the majority of its rivals at the time. There is a lot more variety now than there was when it was introduced which I think shows in the reduced number of Mk 6 Golf's around.

If anything the Mk 6 is more of a badge purchase, GTi's aside, because by the time the Mk 6 came out there were some genuine competitors, Auris instead of Corolla, Hyundai i10, Kia Ceed, Scirocco, many more. Anyway some would say that Skoda sank the 'badge purchase' argument.

Just my 2 cents

I would be very interested to know how many of the Golfs sold were 1.4's. When buying a base model Golf 1.4 you could have had a 1.6 Focus instead which beats the Golf in every way in my opinion.

A base Golf Mk 5 1.4 with 75bhp was €21709 when new, €22k for a 1.4 Golf!!

The reason for the reduction in sales of the Mk6 could also be the global recession kicking in with people not spending as much on ''premium'' cars.

unkel

166man wrote: »

A base Golf Mk 5 1.4 with 75bhp was €21709 when new, €22k for a 1.4 Golf!!

Yup I can confirm that. It's even worse. A base Mk 4 1.4 with 75bhp was €22k in early '03. I did the buying for my mother in law and got her nearly the exact same car, but bigger and better made for just €17k (Skoda Octavia)

That's a stupid premium for for a badge in my book. And even more stupid people paid thousands more than that yet again for another sister, the Audi A3 (though in fairness not with that junk of an engine )

166man

unkel wrote: »

Yup I can confirm that. It's even worse. A base Mk 4 1.4 with 75bhp was €22k in early '03. I did the buying for my mother in law and got her nearly the exact same car, but bigger and better made for just €17k (Skoda Octavia)

That's a stupid premium for for a badge in my book. And even more stupid people paid thousands more than that yet again for another sister, the Audi A3 (though in fairness not with that junk of an engine )

It is insanity really, I mean €22k for a Golf with a base engine and not one option. No alloys nothing. The Audi A3 was even worse. Over €27k for the base 1.6...

Think of what €22k would buy today...

RandomAccess

166man wrote: »

I would be very interested to know how many of the Golfs sold were 1.4's. When buying a base model Golf 1.4 you could have had a 1.6 Focus instead which beats the Golf in every way in my opinion.

A base Golf Mk 5 1.4 with 75bhp was €21709 when new, €22k for a 1.4 Golf!!

The reason for the reduction in sales of the Mk6 could also be the global recession kicking in with people not spending as much on ''premium'' cars.

Crazy expensive alright. But I think people bought into residuals in rather the same way as they bought into the property boom, which at the time was understandable, I don't think people expected the used market to change so much.. in either sphere!

And of course there were a lot of Focus sold as well, but it was never the best looking car compared to the Mk 1 and most people would have avoided the 1.6 on the usual road tax and insurance grounds leaving the 1.4 which I think was even slower than the Golf as it was geared so high! (felt that way)

Luckily things have moved on now, and the Focus & Golf are no longer the default choices.

Funny really, a few years back the typical buying decision was based on

Residuals,
Road tax & insurance dictating engine cc,
The test drive


whereas now its more
Low Co2 for Road tax & resale
Diesel Diesel Diesel
Foglights (and alloys and other spec.. but mainly fog lights!)
MPG? Or is this assumed
7 Year warranty?

Fiona

RandomAccess wrote: »

I don't think people expected the used market to change so much..

Bought my 04 318ci two years ago for €11k. Saw a mint 02 M3 vert for sale today for for €10k. Sick.

Voodoomelon

It wouldn't happen to be Laguna Seca Blue would it?

Sobanek

Voodoomelon wrote: »

It wouldn't happen to be Laguna Seca Blue would it?

Nope.

Owen

I couldn't justify myself paying the Government anything over 450 for tax. It's the reason my 75 and I parted company, the principle of the thing just turned my stomach.

I've a car (If you could call it that) now that costs me 170 odd a year to tax, it'll run on 20 Euro a week if I'm careful, it's not diesel which in itself is a plus (Especially now that Diesel's more expensive than petrol in a few stations).

Would I like my mate's 03 330ci SE with every single possible extra? Of course I would ... but I couldn't pay 3 litre tax, or live with 3 litre consumption and tyre wear. Even if I did stretch myself to the fuel and tax, with larger older cars, the potential for something breaking draining your wallet empty is huge, and not something I'd risk with a daily driver.

166man

RandomAccess wrote: »

Crazy expensive alright. But I think people bought into residuals in rather the same way as they bought into the property boom, which at the time was understandable, I don't think people expected the used market to change so much.. in either sphere!

And of course there were a lot of Focus sold as well, but it was never the best looking car compared to the Mk 1 and most people would have avoided the 1.6 on the usual road tax and insurance grounds leaving the 1.4 which I think was even slower than the Golf as it was geared so high! (felt that way)

Luckily things have moved on now, and the Focus & Golf are no longer the default choices.

Funny really, a few years back the typical buying decision was based on

Residuals,
Road tax & insurance dictating engine cc,
The test drive


whereas now its more
Low Co2 for Road tax & resale
Diesel Diesel Diesel
Foglights (and alloys and other spec.. but mainly fog lights!)
MPG? Or is this assumed
7 Year warranty?

That's a good point about the residuals and I see where you are coming from but even with people I know all they want is a VW Golf and nothing else. Doesn't matter if it had the 1.2 engine under the bonnet, getting a Golf is seen to be the thing to have apparently. I understand that maybe badge could be more important with younger people due to peer-pressure etc but still, I would believe that many people that bought a base Mk 5 Golf bought it because it's a golf and would have nothing else.

I'm not trying to sound snobby though I mean I drive a 10 year old Alfa but I drive it because I really like it, not because of the Alfa badge on the front.

There's hardly a big difference between a 1.4 and 1.6 on road tax is there?what is it €100?

RandomAccess

166man wrote: »

There's hardly a big difference between a 1.4 and 1.6 on road tax is there?what is it €100?

Yeah thats all, but insurance used to be very cc oriented as well "back in the day" :pac:
Maybe it was all psychological.

Sobanek

166man wrote: »

It is insanity really, I mean €22k for a Golf with a base engine and not one option. No alloys nothing. The Audi A3 was even worse. Over €27k for the base 1.6...

Think of what €22k would buy today...

Audi A4 starts at €32k.

And then look at the Mercedes S320 CDI...

Road Tax is €1560 instead of €604 but is it really more expensive in the long run?

A decent 2002 S320 CDI starts at around the €5.5k mark, that means you've another €27k to spend on diesel, maintenance and other. In the long run it's saving money and you get a much better equipped and comfortable car than the A4. And more powerful too.

Voodoomelon

Sobanek wrote: »

Nope.

Funny looking M3 that.

166man

Sobanek wrote: »

Audi A4 starts at €32k.

And then look at the Mercedes S320 CDI...

Road Tax is €1560 instead of €604 but is it really more expensive in the long run?

A decent 2002 S320 CDI starts at around the €5.5k mark, that means you've another €27k to spend on diesel, maintenance and other. In the long run it's saving money and you get a much better equipped and comfortable car than the A4. And more powerful too.

2007 Audi A4 1.6 started at just over €35k...

I'm not sure what your point is but I agree with you on the S320CDI over the A4 though.

Voodoomelon

Owen wrote: »

I couldn't justify myself paying the Government anything over 450 for tax. It's the reason my 75 and I parted company, the principle of the thing just turned my stomach.

I've a car (If you could call it that) now that costs me 170 odd a year to tax, it'll run on 20 Euro a week if I'm careful, it's not diesel which in itself is a plus (Especially now that Diesel's more expensive than petrol in a few stations).

Would I like my mate's 03 330ci SE with every single possible extra? Of course I would ... but I couldn't pay 3 litre tax, or live with 3 litre consumption and tyre wear. Even if I did stretch myself to the fuel and tax, with larger older cars, the potential for something breaking draining your wallet empty is huge, and not something I'd risk with a daily driver.

I know its a cliché and gets old, but you really only do live once. Finance permitting of course, I will never own a small engined, run of the mill wagon again. There difference with me though is I do about 120 miles a week and long may it continue. Even if my circumstances change and I have to commute, it will be a 3.0l diesel A8 or the likes for me. Even with kids down the road, big saloons will do the job nicely.

I still want to squeeze a CL or Maserati in at some stage before then though. €15-€25k will probably be my max budget going forward from now and i'll be damned if I drop it on an Avensis, Note, Cmax or the likes!

Again, each to their own, everyone has their own financial situations, ideals, justifications etc.
I still remember that fantastic line a seller had on his 1998 S-class on DoneDeal. "Drive around in style as the country goes down the toilet". Thats what I plan on doing!

JP 1800

Voodoomelon wrote: »

I know its a cliché and gets old, but you really only do live once. Finance permitting of course, I will never own a small engined, run of the mill wagon again. There difference with me though is I do about 120 miles a week and long may it continue. Even if my circumstances change and I have to commute, it will be a 3.0l diesel A8 or the likes for me. Even with kids down the road, big saloons will do the job nicely.

I still want to squeeze a CL or Maserati in at some stage before then though. €15-€25k will probably be my max budget going forward from now and i'll be damned if I drop it on an Avensis, Note, Cmax or the likes!

Again, each to their own, everyone has their own financial situations, ideals, justifications etc.
I still remember that fantastic line a seller had on his 1998 S-class on DoneDeal. "Drive around in style as the country goes down the toilet". Thats what I plan on doing!

I am of the same mind when it comes to small cars, I can't stand them, since I don't do crazy mileage I have a nice 5L CL for a daily runner and a couple of classics for fun. Running costs can be horrific at times but I am handy enough with spanners to offset maintenance and repair. 15-25K will get you a very nice CL, they are going for pennies these days, champagne driving for lemonade money :cool:

Elessar

I don't get all this anti golf snobbery. The mk6 is imo a beautiful car, drives extremely well, is frugal and comfortable. The 1.2tsi engine is a revelation. 175nm torque from 1550 rpm right through to 4000rpm. 80% the max torque of my 2.2L BMW and is actually quicker off the mark. Feels much quicker than the figures suggest. And the economy of a 1.2 to boot.

I am so impressed after a few test drives that I'm seriously considering buying one in the new year. I know what driving is about, it's a personal thing for everyone and just because someone drives a golf doesn't somehow mean they don't care about driving.

Fiona

Voodoomelon wrote: »

It wouldn't happen to be Laguna Seca Blue would it?

Yeah Simon's one, my dream car what I would give to be in a position to buy it

Owen wrote: »

I couldn't justify myself paying the Government anything over 450 for tax. It's the reason my 75 and I parted company, the principle of the thing just turned my stomach.

The immense pleasure I get from the car would be enough to blank out the pain of the tax! I am already running an M3 with the two cars I have at the moment so well used to it :rolleyes::D

Voodoomelon wrote: »

I know its a cliché and gets old, but you really only do live once. Finance permitting of course, I will never own a small engined, run of the mill wagon again.

Hear hear!! I know it sounds pathetic but I have always wanted a BMW ever since I saw them in my Dad's garage :o

Always assumed my brother would grow up with some cool cars (as he used to dream about owning one to) that I could inherit from him but it didn't work out that way so I had to bite the bullet and do it myself :P

But he is into fecking all the green energy lark so I can't see him buying a alcoholic E30 when I put it up for sale :D

JP 1800 wrote: »

champagne driving for lemonade money :cool:

That is the best saying I have ever heard!!!

Owen

Voodoomelon wrote: »

I know its a cliché and gets old, but you really only do live once.

I've done the fast car that does single figure mpgs - I hand built a show winning MINI JCW with every factory option (Literally) and every JCW option. I had a 335 as a company car for a while, not to mention a string of other high end motors. It's out of my system for the moment, because of the price it costs to run and maintain something like that here. I genuinely plan to emigrate in a few years when my business loan is paid back, so for the interim, it's small quick cars for me at the moment - and when I decide on where I'm going to, then I'll have something with a nice stove under the bonnet again. Ireland is not a country that's catered towards owning and running a nice car.

JP 1800

JP 1800 wrote: »

................... 15-25K will get you a very nice CL, they are going for pennies these days, champagne driving for lemonade money :cool:

mrs crilly wrote: »

..............................



That is the best saying I have ever heard!!!

15 to 25K lemonade money?

In fairness lads spending 15 to 25K on a CL and than running the thing isn't an option for the vast majority of the car buying population.

I know people are prone to forgetting about other people's situations and if you can afford to spend 20k on a high tax, high maintenance, low mpg car than fair play but do remember ye are in the minority.

Owen

RoverJames wrote: »

I know people are prone to forgetting about other people's situations and if you can afford to spend 20k on a high tax, high maintenance, low mpg car than fair play but do remember ye are in the minority.

QFT. It's pretty short sighted to think everyone can afford to pony up 1k for road tax, 100 a week in petrol on some motors, not to mention more expensive tyres, Insurance and repair bills.

My current motor is about as recessionary as they get. 700ccs, about 300 a year to Insure fully comp, 170 odd ish tax and still manages to be a laugh. Do I feel like Noddy driving around the place? Sure, with a side of Postman Pat thrown in, but needs must, and I can't justify a big motor just too announce how great I feel about motoring. Small is the new big - or so I keep telling young ones in nightclubs anyway.

Fiona

I defo can't afford 20k for a car but I just liked the saying.


But if I could afford that much for a car I woudn't feel bad about being the minority

Voodoomelon

Owen wrote: »

I've done the fast car that does single figure mpgs - I hand built a show winning MINI JCW with every factory option (Literally) and every JCW option. I had a 335 as a company car for a while, not to mention a string of other high end motors. It's out of my system for the moment, because of the price it costs to run and maintain something like that here. I genuinely plan to emigrate in a few years when my business loan is paid back, so for the interim, it's small quick cars for me at the moment - and when I decide on where I'm going to, then I'll have something with a nice stove under the bonnet again. Ireland is not a country that's catered towards owning and running a nice car.

That's for sure, we're just not set up for making larger engined cars anywhere near affordable to run. Priorities are the key thing here. You've set your goals and not flittering money away on crazy motor tax is more than understandable. Currently I have no real commitments so I don't mind it as much. Just cleared the loan on my E38 today, so my itchy feet are getting itchier.

thats not gone well

to be honest with ye lads this thread reminds me immensely of this;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PvimE0aNFOg

the_syco

markfla wrote: »

Mustang parked outside the Glenroyal??? nice blue one.

That's the one. There's a garage on celbridge road that has an older model ford mustang, red in colour, sort of like this. Prefer the older shape. Dunno if I'd fit into it, but would probably buy it if I could If it didn't drink petrol like a Dub drinks Guinness on an All-Ireland :P

Tea 1000

RandomAccess wrote: »

The 'badge purchase' argument about the Mk V Golf is overstated I think, it is and was a better car to own/drive than the majority of its rivals at the time. There is a lot more variety now than there was when it was introduced which I think shows in the reduced number of Mk 6 Golf's around.

If anything the Mk 6 is more of a badge purchase, GTi's aside, because by the time the Mk 6 came out there were some genuine competitors, Auris instead of Corolla, Hyundai i10, Kia Ceed, Scirocco, many more. Anyway some would say that Skoda sank the 'badge purchase' argument.

Just my 2 cents

I don't know... How many people who bought the Mk 5 brand new would be telling their friends that the new independent rear suspension is a fantastic improvement over their old Mk 4 which was always dynamically disappointing? I would say zero. "I like Golf's" is more like the sentence you'll hear from them.
I also agree with Anan, useless add-ons like metallic - Some manufacturers charge €1,200 for it! You'd want to be daft to spend that on metallic paint! Unless you were buying a Gulietta or something genuinely stylish and planned to keep it a while, then screw metallic paint... on some of the VW group you could nearly add 4WD for that money, forget your paint!
I've seen a grand total of 1 4WD Passat, yet many, many Highline 2WD versions. Give me a 170bhp 4WD one any day over a 140 2WD one with heated whatever and integrated satellite rip-off.

Voodoomelon

RoverJames wrote: »

15 to 25K lemonade money?

In fairness lads spending 15 to 25K on a CL and than running the thing isn't an option for the vast majority of the car buying population.

I know people are prone to forgetting about other people's situations and if you can afford to spend 20k on a high tax, high maintenance, low mpg car than fair play but do remember ye are in the minority.

This thread kinda lost its direction, its now about peoples incomes and financial situation. The OPs original point was that people are condemning themselves to driving boring, every day cars when theres so many more interesting and exciting cars available for the same or less money. Not even big engined, crazy expensive cars, just cars that are that bit more "exotic"; if most people would see past the year on the plate and the motor tax figure they'd open themselves up to much nicer cars look forward to driving every day. Its not fair to say this is a moot point because people don't have the money. I'm purely talking about the people who do have the money, the people who do have have €20k to spend on a new car.

€20k for example is a lot of money to spend on a new, bog standard car. Scale back a bit and get something with a bit of poke, bit of class, bit of luxury for €15k with a proper warranty and have plenty left over for running costs.

Tea 1000

Voodoomelon wrote: »

This thread kinda lost its direction, its now about peoples incomes and financial situation. The OPs original point was that people are condemning themselves to driving boring, every day cars when theres so many more interesting and exciting cars available for the same or less money. Not even big engined, crazy expensive cars, just cars that are that bit more "exotic"; if most people would see past the year on the plate and the motor tax figure they'd open themselves up to much nicer cars look forward to driving every day. Its not fair to say this is a moot point because people don't have the money. I'm purely talking about the people who do have the money, the people who do have have €20k to spend on a new car.

€20k for example is a lot of money to spend on a new, bog standard car. Scale back a bit and get something with a bit of poke, bit of class, bit of luxury for €15k with a proper warranty and have plenty left over for running costs.

I think we can get the thread back on topic by concluding that we haven't forgotten what driving is about, we never knew in the first place.
All the A4's in the boom times are testament to that!

barura

Sobanek wrote: »

I mean I know we're in bad times, but is it really worth buying a horrid diesel ecobox for 25k with a gutless 1 point something litre engine just to save those 700 quid? Don't you think you'd be better off with a 1996 2.5 litre car, pay 3000 for the car at most and buy another one after a while? I don't think those "savings" are really worth it.
Good thing some people think the same like my friend Przemek who got himself a nice 2001 M5
A car was designed for pleasure. Not for savings.

I understand where you're coming from, but do you know what 3000 euro will get you? Depending on how you roll the dice and what luck you have, you might get a car that will go for 50k no problems, or 500 miles and pack it in when you need it most.

What a new car is supposed to be is an investment, you buy it, keep it going and service it regularly. If it's a 700cc or 4.5 liter bruiser, you're supposed to maintain it. No one here in the country does that, a major difference between Ireland and the rest of the world. Even if my car is 999cc, I should keep it good and sweet, if I had it from new, I can assure you I would have, but it's had 11 owners and to keep it going is still a toss of a coin in the air for me, financially and how much I like it.

Engine power does not equate to how a car performs or reacts. It's the drivers ability for the most part. There are people driving around in 300bhp+ cars and the don't know how to drive a car of that power, the effect is null and just a way to make them feel good in their pants, or lack thereof. Maybe people like these ecoboxes because they're easy to drive, do the speed limit and keep them safe in a crash?

Now I can tell you quite honestly, if I had 3 grand, I would probably get a cleaner version of my car with a busted engine and swap them around. If I had 25k, I'd probably get a Skoda Fabia or Seat Ibiza estate, new and keep it running for a long time and walk away with change.

It is "savings" if you keep a car going and use it year in year out. A car could easily last you 20 years, if you treat it right and maintain it. Hell, you could even employ your thoughts about getting a older cheaper car and slam it around at weekends or the odd day or so instead of the one you bought and maintained.

The problem is people think it makes sense to change cars every year/2years/4 instead of keeping it going, though it is good from a bangernomics sense or even someone looking for a good deal, buying new and keeping it going for a long time also makes sense.

On a final note, a car (nowadays with the media spin) is perhaps for pleasure. And you know what? I love my car, I think it's brilliant. I can drive up and down the country in it, at the speed limit, and it doesn't kick up a fuss. I'm sure it's not comfy to you, or as refined as a big engined cruiser, but it can do what I ask of it, which is what it's legally allowed to. If I want to do some big mileage stuff, like 1,200 mile a day stuff, I'll probably move up, but I know when I get back, my little car will still be there and still be rearing to go, cheap and as cheerful as when I got it.

So in the end, what I'm trying to say is, engine size doesn't equate to pleasure of driving, nor does the year, nor does the price you paid for it, nor the badge nor anything else. It's what the person makes of it!

Sorry for the long post, I hope it makes sense.

166man

Good post Barura but in relation to the last few sentences about engine size relating to driving pleasure isn't strictly true. Driving a 4.0 V8 M3 is going to give you more enjoyment than a boggo spec 318i and a V6 Alfa more than a 1.8 four.. I agree though about the making the most of the car's engine and power or lack of power!

Anan1

166man wrote: »

Good post Barura but in relation to the last few sentences about engine size relating to driving pleasure isn't strictly true. Driving a 4.0 V8 M3 is going to give you more enjoyment than a boggo spec 318i and a V6 Alfa more than a 1.8 four..

That really depends on the driver. You and I like big engines, but many people are better off buying the smaller-engined car and spending the money saved on something that gives them value. I'll give you an example. A few years back, my mother bought a new 320d (she's in her late 60s and spends quite a bit of time in the car). She tends to keep her cars until they die, and she specified it with this in mind. It ended up costing pretty much the same as a base 335i. Now you might prefer the 335, but i'm sure that she would have been less happy with it.

Tea 1000

166man wrote: »

Good post Barura but in relation to the last few sentences about engine size relating to driving pleasure isn't strictly true. Driving a 4.0 V8 M3 is going to give you more enjoyment than a boggo spec 318i and a V6 Alfa more than a 1.8 four.. I agree though about the making the most of the car's engine and power or lack of power!

I'd say if you do nothing but drive in traffic then an auto 318 will give you more driving pleasure than an M3.

Voodoomelon

Voodoomelon wrote: »

This thread kinda lost its direction, its now about peoples incomes and financial situation. ...................
€20k for example is a lot of money to spend on a new, bog standard car. Scale back a bit and get something with a bit of poke, bit of class, bit of luxury for €15k with a proper warranty and have plenty left over for running costs.

That's all fine, I was replying to someone who mentioned spending 15 to 25k on a very nice CL

With €20k spending €15K of that on a CL won't leave plenty left over, 'twill tax it and maybe fuel it for 12 months.

Theses threads have been done over and over again, buy a new eco car or buy an older bus that has depreciated.......... bla bla bla

barura

Also, if you get 100% out of a, 1.8 Alfa then 50% out of the 3 liter V6 then they have, doesn't that make more sense?

I would also think that after learning how to get the most out of a smaller car, when you move up, you could "feel" the car a lot better.

As regards my car having 11 owners, I was a little skeptical of getting a chip on the windshield repaired. Turns out, I have windshield cover and it covers it at no cost. Perhaps, this car will stay with me a bit longer after all.

dgt

Spot on barura wheres the fun in having a big hp engined car and not being able to use it all? Wait I can't say too much here....

Plus all that power would be wasted if you can't negotiate the bends. Hence where the americans went wrong

A small light nippy car is the way foreward if you don't do too many motorway miles and use twisty roads. A van is sometimes more fun than a car in this scenario

Voodoomelon

RoverJames wrote: »

Theses threads have been done over and over again, buy a new eco car or buy an older bus that has depreciated.......... bla bla bla

Very true. :pac:

166man

LIGHTNING wrote: »

But the game is to see how long it takes before somebody recommends buying a 728i from the bangernomics thread and thus will have the best of both worlds:pac:

It really does make sense to buy something like this 740i and spend the rest on fuel and tax and on all that crap and enjoy it! Some people drive because they have to I like to drive because I like and want to enjoy it!

http://cars.donedeal.ie/for-sale/cars/2599937