new cycle lanes in Cork

enas

Just read that: http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/kfqleygbidgb/

I actually cycled past the works (end of South Mall/Anglesea street) in the last few days but only yesterday suspected they're building a new cycle path (it's dark when I'm cycling there).

Does anyone have any more info on this? The idea of the network sounds fine, but unfortunately I have no illusions about what they will finally look like.

Nooooooo!

It's a near certainty that these will be completley rubbish and make cycling less convenient. I thought Cork had mostly managed to avoid the degree of cycle lane stupidity hoisted on Dublin but it seems like I was wrong.

adodsk

http://www.corkcity.ie/services/roadstransportation/trafficdivision/cycling/filedownload,2419,en.htm#strategy_existing

A bit short on details - and no map!

That article in the OP is obsessed with lost parking spaces:(

DePurpereWolf

DOZENS of parking spaces mind you. Oh the tragedy.

Wait, if people take the bicycle, they won't need parking spaces. Problem solved!

Yer welcome.

DePurpereWolf

There are a couple of places in Cork (as in all Irish cities) that act as bottlenecks.
Like this one on Lough road: http://maps.google.com/maps?q=cork,+ireland&hl=en&ll=51.889861,-8.484658&spn=0.000013,0.006759&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=43.983628,55.371094&vpsrc=6&hnear=Cork,+County+Cork,+Ireland&t=m&z=17&layer=c&cbll=51.889861,-8.484658&panoid=dVyYPNqlo3piv4PU9PIuIw&cbp=12,356.63,,0,28.14

Yes, that there is a two-way lane used by two bus routes. You'll **** your pants if you come down that hill and a bus goes up it. You'll have less than a meter of space. A cycle lane (let alone two) won't fit there.

Unless they're willing to pull-down some buildings, this is not going to be fixed.

I guess that it will be under the togher and deanrock route in the list above.

But lets wait and see. These photos of idiot cycle paths always crack me up.

brainstorm

Deleted User wrote: »

Nooooooo!

It's a near certainty that these will be completley rubbish and make cycling less convenient. I thought Cork had mostly managed to avoid the degree of cycle lane stupidity hoisted on Dublin but it seems like I was wrong.

+1 . The one's that we already have are badly planned, so any new ones will most likely (waits to be proved wrong) follow the same way. €7 million for cycle lanes...????

Chris O Donoghue

And not a single metre of cycle lane for the Northside. Thank God:)

enas

Chris O Donoghue wrote: »

And not a single metre of cycle lane for the Northside. Thank God:)

The Northside is an official no-cycle zone. I'm not the one saying this, it's said in this report (map at page 13)...

DePurpereWolf

The north side is a lost cause anyways. Luckily there's nothing there worth cycling to.
I like the cycle lanes of page 18 of your report.

But isn't fairhill in the north side? That's on the list in post #3

enas

DePurpereWolf wrote: »

The north side is a lost cause anyways. Luckily there's nothing there worth cycling to.

That's if you don't like hills, of course.

I like the cycle lanes of page 18 of your report.

I would like to see how it works in practice, but the idea appeals to me as a good short term solution that's relatively easy to achieve (from a technical point of view, not political).

But isn't fairhill in the north side? That's on the list in post #3

But that comes from an entirely different study, you see. Or is that the guys doing the bike share scheme study think that it's only Dublin Bikes with their weight and limited gears that are not suitable for the Northside... Anyway, I just chuckled when I saw the map, with the big scary red areas!

Funsterdelux

We'd need a couple of ski-lifts on the Northside!

Or should I say Bike-Lifts!

sham2

enas wrote: »

DePurpereWolf wrote: »

The north side is a lost cause anyways. Luckily there's nothing there worth cycling to.

That's if you don't like hills, of course.

I like the cycle lanes of page 18 of your report.

I would like to see how it works in practice, but the idea appeals to me as a good short term solution that's relatively easy to achieve (from a technical point of view, not political).

But isn't fairhill in the north side? That's on the list in post #3

But that comes from an entirely different study, you see. Or is that the guys doing the bike share scheme study think that it's only Dublin Bikes with their weight and limited gears that are not suitable for the Northside... Anyway, I just chuckled when I saw the map, with the big scary red areas!

The average commuter would baulk at some of the hills on the north side. Me? Mehhhh! You haven't lived till you climb and I mean CLIMB pophams hill or fairhill and then tear down cathedral road weaving around cars and the number 2 buses.
Just spotted the new cycle lane on the bridge by the city hall. First proper off road lane i've seen in the city. If you build it...
Will post photo if I can figure how to do it from phone via touch.boards.ie

Chris O Donoghue

The finish of the last stage of the Tour of Ireland in 2010 made the most of the Northside hills: Beacon Hill (aka fag0t hill) Baker's Hill, Cathedral Road, York Hill, Patrick's Hill, Fair Hill, lower Killeens. Short but killer inclines, too much for poor oul Lance at the time. If you're ever in Cork, give it a go.
http://www.mapmyride.com/routes/view/26030664

enas

Just found this which provides some more details:

http://kieranmccarthy.ie/wordpress/?p=7738

There are some good ideas, there are some details that are a bit discouraging (such as the treatment, or lack thereof, of the junction at the end of South Terrace).

eoin88

Has anyone been cycling along the Douglas road over the last week or so? They seem to be burning off road markings, painting new markings, reburning the new markings every other day. Bit of a mess really, I don't think most motorists realise that it's a cycle lane being put in. It also seems very strange to me that the plan is to put a cycle lane only on the outbound side of the road. My experience is that there wasn't enough room on the inbound lane as it was, and now they've narrowed the inbound lane even further. At certain points even the small Bus Éireanns are now forced over the dotted white line. Maybe I'm missing some important factor here, but I would be much happier with a cycle lane going into town than one coming out!

Malari

And I saw a cyclist this morning going the wrong way on the cycle lane! I wonder were they thinking of making it two-way...is that why it's so wide?

enas

eoin88 wrote: »

Has anyone been cycling along the Douglas road over the last week or so? They seem to be burning off road markings, painting new markings, reburning the new markings every other day. Bit of a mess really, I don't think most motorists realise that it's a cycle lane being put in. It also seems very strange to me that the plan is to put a cycle lane only on the outbound side of the road. My experience is that there wasn't enough room on the inbound lane as it was, and now they've narrowed the inbound lane even further. At certain points even the small Bus Éireanns are now forced over the dotted white line. Maybe I'm missing some important factor here, but I would be much happier with a cycle lane going into town than one coming out!

I cycle there every day and intended to show some helmet cam footage with commentary about it. It really doesn't look great, to use a euphemism. Or, in fact, it is exactly what we would have anticipated. Concerning the width, it seems to be just OK in most parts, but the width is absolutely not consistent, to laughable levels at places, where it gets less than half width for no apparent reason. About the outbound side, this is where it has been burnt off (after the flower shop), so maybe they will put it on the other side of the road after all (which has the extra annoyance of being uphill, resulting in higher speed differential with cars, which is where segregation is more appreciated)? In some places, the lane is right next to parked cars, and they seem to show they heard about the door zone, by putting a risible "buffer zone" of about 30cm between the parking space and the cycle lane. The only part I appreciate is the long filter lane up to the junction with Well road as you go towards Douglas, which is badly congested every evening. That's a really nice bonus, as the opposite direction is always quite busy which makes overtakes not very easy (the footpath was also quite frequently used by less confident cyclists to proceed to the front of the queue, so if it stops them, that's a good thing too).

enas

Malari wrote: »

is that why it's so wide?

Just because we've been used to ridiculously narrow lanes doesn't mean that that one is extra wide. As I was commenting, they're about just OK. Cars still need to move out a bit to pass you safely, and I've seen indeed many times cars staying behind me although we're each in our lane, but they couldn't move out in the opposite lane. Of course that's the right thing to do, but unfortunately not all drivers are that good. Indeed it is a very well-known and studied phenomenon (too lazy to find references) that the presence of cycle lanes makes drivers less likely to make the effort of properly judging their passing distance.

Malari

enas wrote: »

Just because we've been used to ridiculously narrow lanes doesn't mean that that one is extra wide. As I was commenting, they're about just OK. Cars still need to move out a bit to pass you safely, and I've seen indeed many times cars staying behind me although we're each in our lane, but they couldn't move out in the opposite lane. Of course that's the right thing to do, but unfortunately not all drivers are that good. Indeed it is a very well-known and studied phenomenon (too lazy to find references) that the presence of cycle lanes makes drivers less likely to make the effort of properly judging their passing distance.

Well maybe it's just because of the width of the road it seems wide to me. I could cycle within the lane much further out than I used to. And I'm not exactly a kerb-crawler

clod71

Malari wrote: »

And I saw a cyclist this morning going the wrong way on the cycle lane! I wonder were they thinking of making it two-way...is that why it's so wide?

these people who ride cycle lanes in the opposite directions are totally crazy and to me they are very dangerous and not only to themselves...

enas

Malari wrote: »

Well maybe it's just because of the width of the road it seems wide to me. I could cycle within the lane much further out than I used to. And I'm not exactly a kerb-crawler

That you can cycle further out doesn't mean that cars shouldn't move further out too when passing you. In fact, what you say illustrates the false sense of security that cycle lanes provide. It seems you perceive that you can cycle further out because "as long as I'm in my lane and cars are in theirs, everything is fine" (just schematising). But in fact, what the presence of the lane might be doing is encouraging you to actually cycle closer to cars than you would have otherwise done or encourage cars to pass closer to you than they would have otherwise done. Here's still from a footage that illustrates a good pass:



I don't think he's crossing the middle line, but he's definitely driving so close to the middle line that he wouldn't have done this if there was a car in the opposite direction (and I imagine he would have waited as I see many drivers do). Look how far he is from the cycle lane line. This shows that, as a good driver, he realised he should leave more space. Unfortunately, the presence of a cycle lane can encourage others to drive much more closely to the cycle lane line. And the fact that there is a good amount of space between the car and the cycle lane indicates that they might have been able to make the lane a bit wider. Using the width calculator from the cycle manual, the recommended minimum width in this situation should be 1.75m. Looking at this other still:



I don't think the lane is close to being 1.75m wide. The car, which I believe is a Ford Focus, is 1.82m wide according to Google. It appears much wider than the lane (7cm difference wouldn't be noticeable I believe).

clod71

Personally, I think cycle lanes should be created as much as possible and I think they are a safer way to ride bicycles within the city and a very good way to discourage car traffic, but I like them as long as they are very basic:

1) A dedicated lane only delimited by a white/yellow line on the road
2) it is on the road

If not I usually prefer to ride on the road.


Can we, as cyclists, do any sort of lobbying or bring any contribution in order to influence the project or everything has been already decided?

jameverywhere

If the cycle lane is wide enough, doesn't take you into the door zone of parked cars, doesn't force you to turn left when you want to go straight or go straight when you want to go right, etc etc, it can be wonderful for filtering thru congested traffic or otherwise avoiding conflict with cars.

ne'ertheless, the number of good cycle lanes that I've used in Dublin I can count on one hand... and most of them are uselessly short stretches of road.

galwaycyclist

clod71 wrote: »

Can we, as cyclists, do any sort of lobbying or bring any contribution in order to influence the project or everything has been already decided?

If you want contact details for the Cork Cycling Campaign send me a PM.

Malari

enas wrote: »

That you can cycle further out doesn't mean that cars shouldn't move further out too when passing you. In fact, what you say illustrates the false sense of security that cycle lanes provide. It seems you perceive that you can cycle further out because "as long as I'm in my lane and cars are in theirs, everything is fine" (just schematising). But in fact, what the presence of the lane might be doing is encouraging you to actually cycle closer to cars than you would have otherwise done or encourage cars to pass closer to you than they would have otherwise done.

I know that! That's my point - it allows cyclists to potential cycle further out from the kerb than previously when it is not necessarily safe to do so!

Your interpretation of my perception is wrong (unless you are using a general "you"). I don't think cycle lanes are a good idea on that stretch of road.

enas

Malari wrote: »

Your interpretation of my perception is wrong (unless you are using a general "you").

Yes, it was "you" as in "I take you as an example of a cyclist using that stretch". We're essentially making the same point that this setup might encourage cyclists to ride closer to cars than they would do otherwise (and cars to drive closer than they would otherwise).

Malari wrote: »

I don't think cycle lanes are a good idea on that stretch of road.

I can see them serving at least two purposes on that stretch of road: allow cyclists to filter more easily/safely (it can get very congested at times), and as "slow lane" in uphill sections (big speed differential makes the situation more unpleasant). As I see it, I don't think any consideration has been put as to how they can best help though. It looks a bit random, and that impression gets reinforced by the constant burning off/repainting that is happening.

galwaycyclist wrote: »

If you want contact details for the Cork Cycling Campaign send me a PM.

Would you happen to know if they've been somehow involved in this project?

galwaycyclist

enas wrote: »

Would you happen to know if they've been somehow involved in this project?

1. I would never assume that any local authority design had any input from any cycle campaign group.

2. If it is on-road, inappropriate, but useable - then bear in mind that it may have started out as off-road, dangerous, and unusable in the original concept (i.e before any campaigners got near it)

3. The Cork Cycling Campaign folks are very definitely road cyclists with a very good grasp of what will or won't work in this country. If you feel such input is not evident in the designs you see, then the appropriate response is to get involved and try to get things done properly.

enas

galwaycyclist wrote: »

1. I would never assume that any local authority design had any input from any cycle campaign group.

2. If it is on-road, inappropriate, but useable - then bear in mind that it may have started out as off-road, dangerous, and unusable in the original concept (i.e before any campaigners got near it)

3. The Cork Cycling Campaign folks are very definitely road cyclists with a very good grasp of what will or won't work in this country. If you feel such input is not evident in the designs you see, then the appropriate response is to get involved and try to get things done properly.

I'm sure they are. I just wondered by any chance if they managed to provide any input for the specific project. From your pessimism in 1., I doubt they did. Anyway the best way to find out would be to ask them.

two wheels good

eoin88 wrote: »

.. but I would be much happier with a cycle lane going into town than one coming out!

The Douglas to town cycle lane is on the South Douglas Rd. I haven't taken a look at it yet.

enas

Here are some impressions from the current state:

http://vimeo.com/38569258

Quite mixed feelings overall, but at least, I don't feel there's anywhere it makes it worse than before. The last bit that allows you to filter to the front of the chronically long queue of cars is quite pleasant, so if only for that, I say it's not too bad. By the way, the bit where it starts again at 0:17 has now been burnt off too (so no lane on this stretch of road).

clod71

enas wrote: »

Here are some impressions from the current state:

http://vimeo.com/38569258

Quite mixed feelings overall, but at least, I don't feel there's anywhere it makes it worse than before. The last bit that allows you to filter to the front of the chronically long queue of cars is quite pleasant, so if only for that, I say it's not too bad. By the way, the bit where it starts again at 0:17 has now been burnt off too (so no lane on this stretch of road).

I agree on the fav part. That last piece before the junction with the Well Rd was a nightmare and it would "force" me to overtake all the cars on the right riding happily, but dangerously in the middle of the road.
I didn't know that the cycle lane on the way in to the city was on the South Douglas Rd.
I'll have to check that out...

enas

two wheels good wrote: »

The Douglas to town cycle lane is on the South Douglas Rd. I haven't taken a look at it yet.

All right I didn't understand it was meant to be that way... Although, the South Douglas road cycle lane looks much less promising. You'd get to wonder if it's the same people designing and laying both. Here are some stills (will upload video later).

On the first bit (in front of Douglas Community School), in fact I genuinely doubt it's a cycle lane. It really looks like a sort of traffic calming scheme combined with extra parking spaces (I'm not being sarcastic, that's really what it looks like), where the traffic lanes are made narrower. This is how it ends:



Is this really meant to become a cycle lane?

Second bit, and here there's no doubt it's meant to become a cycle lane, is an old favourite (narrow and twisty lane that serves no apparent purpose):



It's even worse at the end as it leaves you in the worse position to continue straight at the junction (and from experience this junction has a history of drivers cutting across your path, it really requires taking a strong central, if not closer to the right, position):

AltAccount

Good video.

Maybe it's a fisheye element to the camera lens, but it seems to me that the bits where you say it's wide, are MASSIVE.

DePurpereWolf

AltAccount wrote: »

Good video.

Maybe it's a fisheye element to the camera lens, but it seems to me that the bits where you say it's wide, are MASSIVE.

The vid is a bit better, a Fiat Punto can park in it so that's about the width.

The parking plus cycle lane with the door buffer zone is also pretty good.

The cycle lane is overal good. But as with a chain, it's only as safe as it's most dangerous part.

enas

AltAccount wrote: »

Maybe it's a fisheye element to the camera lens, but it seems to me that the bits where you say it's wide, are MASSIVE.

It is due to the fisheye effect of the lens. If you look at the thumbnail picture (the picture shown before hitting play, which corresponds to around 2:05 in the video), the cycle lanes looks as wide if not wider than the next lane, whereas it is noticeably narrower in reality. I should ideally ride with a mate in front of me to give a better sense of proportions. In fact, I overtake a cyclist on the junction at 1:46 onwards. Check that out, it gives a better feeling of the proportions (the cyclist is quite close to the kerb, still there's not that much space on his right). Also bear in mind that the camera is placed under the handlebars, so closer to the road. I will try to have helmet mounted views of the lane too for a more accurate impression.

But yes, I agree that the width is really acceptable in most parts (the part where it narrows at the end before the junction with Well road is a bit scary, as it's treacherous and cars will always be close to it).

el Bastardo

Where are the cycle symbols that are typically on a cycle path/lane? I didn't see any on that vimeo vid. While it's an improvement on the crap that exists in Cork, it's still crap. Do it properly or don't bother at all: Half-assed is pointless!

They'd improve safety more by handing out hi-vis vests and lights from what I see with the dark eejits on pavements.

I think I'll just carry on regardless

galwaycyclist

In Irish law the cycle symbols have no legal status and are not a requirement for a cycle track. A cycle track is indicated through the dimensions of the road markings and the presence of upright signs.

enas

I put a new video with the news stretches that have been added since the first video:

http://vimeo.com/39263036

After the initial relatively good impressions, we have here some very substandard implementations. Two of the lanes end just before the road narrows. Those are places where, knowing the road, I always take a primary position well in advance, and you can see that indeed I leave the lane before it ends (at 1:26 for example). Someone without local knowledge of the road, or a less confident cyclist, will inevitable be put in a worse position than if there was no lane at all. The third one, actually the first on the video, the one on the junction, is just plainly dangerous (it brings suddenly on the path of accelerating cars), on top of being useless.

Malari

enas wrote: »

I put a new video with the news stretches that have been added since the first video:

http://vimeo.com/39263036

After the initial relatively good impressions, we have here some very substandard implementations. Two of the lanes end just before the road narrows. Those are places where, knowing the road, I always take a primary position well in advance, and you can see that indeed I leave the lane before it ends (at 1:26 for example). Someone without local knowledge of the road, or a less confident cyclist, will inevitable be put in a worse position than if there was no lane at all. The third one, actually the first on the video, the one on the junction, is just plainly dangerous (it brings suddenly on the path of accelerating cars), on top of being useless.

Actually I noticed what cyclists are doing is just cycling up onto the footpath when the cycle lane ends. It even looks like the lane is directing you up onto the footpath.

Plus still encountering cyclists coming the wrong way towards me on the cycle lane!

superhooper

In addition to these new lanes what are peoples thoughts to the new cycle racks being put up. Might be wrong but I think they are putting them next to bus stops?? Seems a bit of a waste to me to be putting these in the suburbs unless there is some other logic I'm missing. Personally I might use the one at the Lough as that is often a destination for me. The others I don't know?

torturedsoul

Lets be honest, the cycle lane will eventually get filled stones, dirt, broken glass and the odd drunken student here and there. They will become un-cycle-able. this is what most cycle tracks are like. take a look at the ****e that covers the ballincollig ones for example. So you will have cyclist forced to use the roads for fear of a puncture while more then likely motorists will be even more angered at the site of us out on the roads when there are "perfectly good cycle lanes all over the city"

BLAAAA I say

superhooper

torturedsoul wrote: »

Lets be honest, the cycle lane will eventually get filled stones, dirt, broken glass and the odd drunken student here and there. They will become un-cycle-able. this is what most cycle tracks are like. take a look at the ****e that covers the ballincollig ones for example. So you will have cyclist forced to use the roads for fear of a puncture while more then likely motorists will be even more angered at the site of us out on the roads when there are "perfectly good cycle lanes all over the city"

BLAAAA I say

I get the impression that in Cork cycling lanes are a tick the box exercise for the local authorities. I mean I don't know that many City Councillors that actually cycle so hence if x number of Kms of cycleways are put down then all is good regardless of the quality or enforcement of them. I think Bus corridors are in the same league. Manys the time that I pass City Hall the Bus lane outside it has several City Council vans parked there!!

Laundry_Hamper

torturedsoul wrote: »

Lets be honest, the cycle lane will eventually get filled stones, dirt, broken glass and the odd drunken student here and there. They will become un-cycle-able. this is what most cycle tracks are like. take a look at the ****e that covers the ballincollig ones for example. So you will have cyclist forced to use the roads for fear of a puncture while more then likely motorists will be even more angered at the site of us out on the roads when there are "perfectly good cycle lanes all over the city"

BLAAAA I say

Have you seen the ones up and down the Airport road? The red crap is peeling away in sheets and the way down has heaps (literal mounds, like!) of gravel directly ahead of the lights next to the Bull McCabe's.

funnights74

It's the same on the vicars road by the petrol station, mostly powder and rubble, and the corporation yard there park their vans on the cycle lane. As a previous poster said cycle lanes in cork are just a token gesture, badly planned and where they are needed the most they don't exist.

on_the_nickel

Laundry_Hamper wrote: »

Have you seen the ones up and down the Airport road? The red crap is peeling away in sheets and the way down has heaps (literal mounds, like!) of gravel directly ahead of the lights next to the Bull McCabe's.

I've sent the council a couple of emails on this, had confirmation of receipt of both (from various departments) but no answer yet. Will send another one again tomorrow and get back to you with what they say.

clod71

I commute from Carrigaline to Ballincollig often going through the city and I think overall cycle lanes are not that bad... Yes, if they kept them clean it would be better, but I find some of them pretty good and safe.
If they are just a tick the box exercise for the local authorities, like someone said, I think you have to start from somewhere and we are not all expert cyclists... some people are just better off in "segregated" lanes
Also sometimes I move by car and, to be fair, the normal roads are not really any better!
Cycling lanes are not the perfect solution, but hopefully they are a starting point to change habits about the way we move around in the city.
If I was a motorist at 5/6 pm on the douglas road blocked in the queue looking at that cyclist going clear on the cycle lane I'd be considering going to the LBS and buy a bike?
you have to make it difficult for motorists to drive around and cycle lanes and bus lanes, in my opinion, are the way to go.

seve65

Chris O Donoghue wrote: »

And not a single metre of cycle lane for the Northside. Thank God:)

there is a brand new cycle lane behind Apple (brand new and a complete waste of money; nice views though)
cycle lane at the side of Apple (full of parked cars)
cycle lane on Colmcilles Road (again parked cars it contains)
cycle lane on Knocknaheeny avenue
cycle lane after Harbour view rd heading down to Apple

issue I have with cycle lanes is they are always full of debris and on the edges of towns were somebody had a bit of spare dosh to waste.

they did send out a form for feedback, I just said to repair the potholes :-)

the issue of motorists overtaking suddenly only then to brake and usually then turn off somewhere is probably the most dangerous event that occurs each day to me.

enas

Regarding Northside, next plan is to build a route serving Ballyvolane. Drawings are here: https://sites.google.com/site/cccdrawings/drawings-1

Incidentally, the route from UCC to city centre is supposed to start soon (with a contraflow on Western road and Washington street, between other things that I can't remember right now).

aFlabbyPanda

I come from Killeens to Ballincollig through the city and on the way out the first cycle lane starts at the Carrigrohane straight which turns into a cycle path around half way along which is then unusable due to debris and the fact that it narrows so much its impossible to pass. The cycle lanes in Ballincollig itself are fairly decent but thats less than 10% of my journey. On the way back there is a bus/cycle lane from Victoria cross to the Mardyke.

If a bus/cycle lane has hours marked on it (say from 4.30 to 6.30 for example), outside of those hours can everyone use them? And if so is priority still given to bikes or is it just like any other road.

on_the_nickel

I received a reply from the council. I don't know where to start, tbh, will leave my response til tomorrow, I think.

Cork County Council wrote:

Re Airport Hill

Dear Mr G

I apologise for the delay in replying to you on this matter.

Unfortunately our maintenance budgets for national routes have been severely curtailed and this has put restrictions on what works we are able to carry out.

I have driven the route today and it the surface itself is peeling off in places but other than that the route seems fairly clear.

I accept there are pockets of loose chippings along the lanes but it is not sufficient in my opinion to merit organising a sweep of the lanes.

For this reason I do not propose doing anything at this time but I will keep an eye on it and review later in the summer.

I could not find ( from driving by in the car) any signs of a dead carcass so I am presuming this matter has been dealt with.

Regards
M

Laundry_Hamper

on_the_nickel wrote: »

I received a reply from the council. I don't know where to start, tbh, will leave my response til tomorrow, I think.

Ugh.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=1MSfdm9hQvo#t=219s