Bushcraft and utility knives

ShadowFox

davymoore wrote: »

Would you lads be interested in designing a new bushcrafting/survival knife?

If so I'd build it and we can do a pass-around with say 10-20 people to try it out for a while test it and see how it performs in the field.



Davy

Cool idea i like the idea of the Tom Brown Tracker Knife but change the top jagged edge to a plain edge with one grove for a fire steel (which would be attached to the sheath or in the handle some how) maybe a pouch on the sheath also for water tabs

Grizzly 45

davymoore wrote: »

Would you lads be interested in designing a new bushcrafting/survival knife?

If so I'd build it and we can do a pass-around with say 10-20 people to try it out for a while test it and see how it performs in the field.



Davy

I'm there.Count me in.:)

Doc Ruby

davymoore wrote: »

So a stainless steel blade at least 100mm long and thick enough to baton logs so 4.5mm thickness or more ...........sounds good

What about a blade profile (shape) any other duties other than splitting logs ?
Would it need a handle ? if so .. What material in handle? Why?
What steel in blade? Stainless I know but anything more specific ?
Does it need a finger guard ? or a big pommel for hammering ?

I'm not trying to be a smart ass, but maybe if everyone put their heads together based on their own requirements and experiences the perfect knife might be designable or indeed already exist

Probably one of the most important things to keep in mind is that a knife is only as good as the person using it, if you see Ray Mears working his magic with a woodlore, that's all about Ray Mears, not the knife. You could do worse than include an instructional video about using your knife for bushcraft tasks. As Grizz has mentioned, there's no one size fits all for the endless variety of tasks involved in bushcraft, but with that said:

• The handle needs to be omnigrip, putting finger grooves in restricts you to one grip, which is no good, and I'd extend that to heel drops. Thats something I like about the ka-bar, also it seems to be repeated for the very popular mora without the grooves. A nice fat handle gives a good grip as well. Micarta is probably one of the better handle materials, I haven't yet seen a blade with multidirectional grooves using micarta.
• A single piece of metal, if anything make the tang bigger than the blade, like the cold steel bushmaster. The only problem with the bm is it has a slippery grip. It needs to be strong in every way possible, as it will be used in all manner of unexpected ways.
• Jimping on the back of the spine is good for firesteel use, I'd almost say put a file grid on there.
• The point needs to be heavily supported, a tanto edge is designed for one thing only, and that's stabbing, you'll lose the point if you try batoning. Likewise a double edge or finger guard, these are as far as I'm aware illegal since they can turn the blade into a dagger or knuckleduster. Plus, strength considerations.
• Maintainability is a big one, a cantled edge isn't quite as effective as a rolled edge, but is much easier to sharpen. I do need to be able to take apart the knife if its using more than a couple of pieces, preferably not.
• A large pommel will be useful, both for hammering and security of grip.

So basically put a ka-bar handle with a bigger tang made of micarta on something like this:


only straighten out the blade a bit, jimping with a file grid on top on the back, and you have something useful. One place you could make some strides as well would be the sheath, I haven't found a commercial sheath equal to the simple modifications I made on mine for the ka-bar, allowing inverted and side carry. And pockets! I'd have run one off myself but I haven't the leatherworking tools yet.

Norwayviking

I have always wanted one of these knives that the indian tribes North of Norway uses,The samis.
Its truly one of the best allround knives i know of,and handmade the old fashioned way,like they have done since iron was discovered more or less.
Expensive but well worth it

http://www.samekniv.no/index.php?option=com_content&task=blogcategory&id=52&Itemid=67

Grizzly 45

Doc Ruby wrote: »

.

• The point needs to be heavily supported, a tanto edge is designed for one thing only, and that's stabbing, you'll lose the point if you try batoning.

Not quite have a looks at the TOPS Hawkes Hellion


Thats what I had more in mind as a Tanto style blade on a survival knife.:) Not too bad a blade either if I may say so.

• Likewise a double edge or finger guard, these are as far as I'm aware illegal since they can turn the blade into a dagger or knuckleduster

Er...No ..no requirements or prohibitions on double edges over here in the ROI,ditto finger gaurds provided it isnt a full blown knuckle duster design.IOW it was designed as a knuckle duster from the word go,like the US trench knife.Which is a total combat knife and not really a survival knife per se.

.

• Maintainability is a big one, a cantled edge isn't quite as effective as a rolled edge, but is much easier to sharpen. I do need to be able to take apart the knife if its using more than a couple of pieces, preferably not.

A given on the maintainability,should be as little as possible.Also edges,keeping a knife "razor sharp" literally is a misnomer,I think,after all,how sharp can you keep your cutthroat razor blade without constant attention and stropping after every shave.How sharp is a razor blade after chopping matchsticks or would it be??I think we need a general purpose edge that can be kept working sharp,if that makes sense.

A large pommel will be useful, both for hammering and security of grip.

A given.

Norwayviking

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Doc Ruby wrote: »

. Not quite have a looks at the TOPS Hawkes Hellion


Thats what I had more in mind as a Tanto style blade on a survival knife.:) Not too bad a blade either if I may say so. Er...No ..no requirements or prohibitions on double edges over here in the ROI,ditto finger gaurds provided it isnt a full blown knuckle duster design.IOW it was designed as a knuckle duster from the word go,like the US trench knife.Which is a total combat knife and not really a survival knife per se.

. A given on the maintainability,should be as little as possible.Also edges,keeping a knife "razor sharp" literally is a misnomer,I think,after all,how sharp can you keep your cutthroat razor blade without constant attention and stropping after every shave.How sharp is a razor blade after chopping matchsticks or would it be??I think we need a general purpose edge that can be kept working sharp,if that makes sense.



A given.

What lenght is the blade on it,it looks more like a machete:eek:lol
Maybe its just the picture.
Nice one though,but to big for my taste.;)

Doc Ruby

Norwayviking wrote: »

I have always wanted one of these knives that the indian tribes North of Norway uses,The samis.
Its truly one of the best allround knives i know of,and handmade the old fashioned way,like they have done since iron was discovered more or less.
Expensive but well worth it

Yeah, see how the handle and pommel are what I was talking about except for the grooves and micarta.

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

. Not quite have a looks at the TOPS Hawkes Hellion

True, the standard tanto has a shallower gradient on the point. I'd still be happier with more support though.

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Er...No ..no requirements or prohibitions on double edges over here in the ROI,ditto finger gaurds provided it isnt a full blown knuckle duster design.IOW it was designed as a knuckle duster from the word go,like the US trench knife.Which is a total combat knife and not really a survival knife per se.

Well, I'd be happier explaining my single edge to the local gyaard if you get what I mean.

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Also edges,keeping a knife "razor sharp" literally is a misnomer,I think,after all,how sharp can you keep your cutthroat razor blade without constant attention and stropping after every shave.How sharp is a razor blade after chopping matchsticks or would it be??I think we need a general purpose edge that can be kept working sharp,if that makes sense.

If you haven't lots of time, working sharp is sound. Out of preference though I like to keep them shaving sharp.

Grizzly 45

[

Norwayviking wrote: »

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

What lenght is the blade on it,it looks more like a machete:eek:lol
Maybe its just the picture.
Nice one though,but to big for my taste.;)

Off the top of my head 8in blade.have a look at www.TOPS knives.com
TOPS are good blades too,Have two of them steel eagle 2 and a TOPS Armageddon.

BTW this is one neat urban survival device that I have seen in a long time.Its a virtual survival packet.
.http://www.topsknives.com/product_info.php?cPath=7&products_id=217

Hmmm if anyone is intrested in a CS Vietnam Tomahawk,I'd consider parting company to finance this yoke.:pac::D

Norwayviking

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

[

Norwayviking wrote: »

Off the top of my head 8in blade.have a look at www.TOPS knives.com
TOPS are good blades too,Have two of them steel eagle 2 and a TOPS Armageddon.

BTW this is one neat urban survival device that I have seen in a long time.Its a virtual survival packet.
.http://www.topsknives.com/product_info.php?cPath=7&products_id=217

Hmmm if anyone is intrested in a CS Vietnam Tomahawk,I'd consider parting company to finance this yoke.:pac::D

If it wasnt for the fact that i allready have a similar one,i would certainly have joined in.;)
Not bad those knives either:D

Deise Musashi

I have always wanted one of these knives that the indian tribes North of Norway uses,The samis.
Its truly one of the best allround knives i know of,and handmade the old fashioned way,like they have done since iron was discovered more or less.
Expensive but well worth it

http://www.samekniv.no/index.php?opt...d=52&Itemid=67

Yep, I like those knives too!



Noggin Stromeng Sameblad
Grohmann Safari
Grohmann Canadian Belt Knife
5inch Norfleet loveless
Ka-Bar Warthog
Zackerman Serratta (amazing knife)
Fallkniven F2Z Laminated VG10
Helle laminated Hunter on the left side

The best survival knife is the one you have on you, I intend to have an amazing knife on me when it hits the fan!

Grizzly 45

The best survival knife is the one you have on you, I intend to have an amazing knife on me when it hits the fan! [/QUOTE]

Never a truer word said.:D

Norwayviking

Deise Musashi wrote: »

Yep, I like those knives too!



Noggin Stromeng Sameblad
Grohmann Safari
Grohmann Canadian Belt Knife
5inch Norfleet loveless
Ka-Bar Warthog
Zackerman Serratta (amazing knife)
Fallkniven F2Z Laminated VG10
Helle laminated Hunter on the left side

The best survival knife is the one you have on you, I intend to have an amazing knife on me when it hits the fan!

Thats what i call a nice selection of knives:D
And like Grizzly says,its just a matter of what you are wearing when the **** hits the fan.
It doesnt matter if its carbon steel,saw,double edge etc,as long as its a knife;)

davymoore

Hibrion wrote: »

Good idea I already have a sketch in my head.

Right so,, you lads work away at the design and whenever you are ready I'll make it up for ye

Davy

Doc Ruby

Right I'll throw this out there to see what ye think, its basically the ka-bar or mora handle with a much stronger tang and jimping, made of micarta...



why mess with designs that have stood the test of time, is my opinion. You could probably smooth out the lines and if you wanted to make it artistic maybe put the grooves in a shallow spiral, although I've no idea what that would do to the grip.

The pommel, handle and tang are all the one piece of metal, the only real problem I can see is balance, micarta (canvas or linen) is heavier than wood or leather, the blade would need to be either heavy or long to compensate for that and the tang/pommel.

Grizzly 45

I dunno will the KA Bar/Mora style grip work with micarta??It is a material grip rather than a natural material like leather...Could be wrong???

Doc Ruby

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

I dunno will the KA Bar/Mora style grip work with micarta??It is a material grip rather than a natural material like leather...Could be wrong???

It would be an interesting one alright, you'd need to layer it directly onto the tang and cook it there... the main reason you don't see that sort of stuff, like the big tang I have, is that its too pricey and finicky for mass production. A challenge! I'd call it the best classic grip taken to perfection in materials and strength.

The blade configuration is a whole other operation though...

coach23

Tops Cochise seems to almost fit the bill could be used as a bushcraft knife and a "survival" knife



Its a bit on the pricey side though.

This is similar to my own one i us anytime i'm in the hills its brilliant cant say enough about it. (the one to the right)

krissovo

This is what I would love to have for a blade:


Not as extreme as a Kukri but still has the slight forward curve to assist with chopping. 9 inch blade is just about right and that lovely thick tang.

Mods I would make are:
Wire cutting slot - Wire cutter built into sheath (leather with metal strip).
Bottom of handle would be hammer
4" Side knife in sheath


Wire cutter:

Hibrion

Is it me or are there two main categories of knives being discussed here?

It seems to me that some of us are focused on a small multi-use bushcraft/ survival knife, and others prefer a camp knife as their go to blade.

krissovo

Its basically what we are comfortable with, we all favor different knives because we all have different experiences. For me in my last post that is my comfort zone, I know how these weight forward knives perform and I can use them better than any straight blade What works for me may not work for you. This knife would be part of my "belt kit" so not strictly a small survival knife.

I did state a few posts up that I would go privately with mine as I think its not everyone's taste but I threw it up anyway as kind of a brainstorming session.

Hibrion

Would a poll be useful?

Who uses a knife of less than 4 inches, who uses one bigger than this? Do you carry an axe and a knife, or two knives, or a folding saw?

Grizzly 45

You will have to make that poll multi choice then.:DThere is 3out of4 scenarios I and no doubt others use.

davymoore

If it helps , we did a thread similar to this a couple of years ago which was very succesful . It was called "The ultimate Irish Hunting Knife"

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055487267

Personally I don't have the time to run the whole thing but if someone wanted to take up the reins and run this thread in a similar way I think you will come up with a good knife design. I'd be glad to participate and if you want clarification on construction methods etc. I'd be happy to oblige where I can.

For what it's worth "I" think the first question to ask yourself should be what's the knife to be used for. Identify 2-3 primary duties and figure how big/small a knife you need. The bigger you make it , the more weight you will have to carry around.

Davy

Hibrion

If people are genuinely interested in doing this, I am willing to "guide" the build. While I wont be as good as Davy I have had two knives from him (one on the way soon ) and I'm familiar with how the design process works.

I will fall down on information on what steels to use etc. as I don't know a lot about this.

If people want to go ahead with this though, a few things would have to be set out.

First of all, how will Davy be compensated for his time and materials?
But also, if this is to go ahead, I think a fresh thread following the way the "Ultimate hunting knife" built would be a good idea.

Maybe a poll of those actually interested in this would be the first thing to do. No point in Davy building it if there isn't enough people to potentially buy and use them.

davymoore

I don't need compensation. So long as we are not using very very expensive materials and provided you guys are serious about designing a usefull knife then I'll build it free of charge.

I wont build anything that I think is tacky or gimmicky though as my name has to go on it. If the design is good enough they will sell an I will be compensated in the long run.

I think a new "Ultimate Irish" thread of some description would be usefull to umbrella the build.

Davy

Hibrion

davymoore wrote: »

I wont build anything that I think is tacky or gimmicky though as my name has to go on it. If the design is good enough they will sell an I will be compensated in the long run.

I agree on this. I see this as designing a knife, not a multi-tool or a survival kit in a knife.

davymoore

Start the thread and see if you can get a few interested parties.
The finished knife can be passed around the participants. Make sure you cover your bases though and only accept those that are old enough and capable enough to have or use the finished knife.

Hibrion

davymoore wrote: »

Start the thread and see if you can get a few interested parties.
The finished knife can be passed around the participants. Make sure you cover your bases though and only accept those that are old enough and capable enough to have or use the finished knife.

Sounds like a plan. I'd suggest something along the lines of:

you must be over 18 and have X amount of posts to be included in the pass around. This is done on another forum to avoid people jumping on the band wagon and taking off with someone's knife.
I suppose full contact info would also have to be given via PM for the pass around to work.

If people are ok with me taking the lead, I'll start the thread?

Davy, would you like to set a max for the pass around? Presuming this all goes ahead.

Hibrion

I've started a thread to gauge support and keep everything to do with the project together.

davymoore

Hibrion wrote: »

Davy, would you like to set a max for the pass around? Presuming this all goes ahead.

I've been involved in passarounds before and it gets out of hand if more that 12-15 want to be in the actual passaround itself, so I'd suggest you limit it to the first 15 "qualified" people to sign up. Anyone can participate in the design itself though, you need as much input as you can muster to get the right results.

Don't ridicule any idea
Don't try include every suggestion
Take your time