Motorist protest on foot of further vat, taxation?

pog it

Good morning all!

I'm sure I'm not the only one here who finds this c.1.50 a litre for petrol outrageous and increasingly hard to manage along with all other bills. The Vat could well go up another 2% and god knows what else in the next budget.

Anyway, lately I've started driving at a max. 50 miles an hour and it does make a big difference in terms of petrol spend but of course it is putting other motorists out. I do obviously stay to the left/pull in onto hard shoulder when it's safe to do so, etc. and I get satisfaction knowing I'm saving some money and paying less tax.

Do people think there would be any appetite for a mass motorist protest? Say some kind of group that drives at 50 miles an hour to make a point? We could get some kind of logo for the back of the car and get word out. Or does anyone have a better idea?

By the way even though my car is petrol it is supposed to be comparatively 'fuel efficient' and in the lower tax bands but I'm still getting shafted.

Bullseye1

If a protest was organised I'd gladly attend, but is there any appetite for protest in this country. We seem to suffer in silence.

pog it

Bullseye1 wrote: »

If a protest was organised I'd gladly attend, but is there any appetite for protest in this country. We seem to suffer in silence.

That's what I want to find out. I'm already on the edge - I changed career and am just working part-time and studying. Any further increases and I'm not exaggerating but I'm going to be in serious trouble.

Would love to hear any ideas. I'd be more than willing to put the work in on this.

Welease

I'm all for protest, but the protest need to have some element of a solution..

If they lower the tax revenue from motorists, will you support them lowering the income tax brackets so you pay more tax?, or paying extra tax elsewhere (VAT)? I'm guessing no, as this won't help your situation.. and lowering our tax take even further does nothing to help the countries financial situation..

Why not work on that before you decide to clog the nations roads and hamper folks trying to get business done..

RichardAnd

I don't think driving at 50 km is going to do much. For one, it's not practical for a great many people for obvious reasons. That being said, fuel prices are avariciously high and I'm more than willing to get involved in anything to address that.

woodoo

Putting the motor tax for the pre 08 cars up in the budget will be a scandal. We are paying enough already.

A 1.6 engine up to nearly €500 and a 1.9 diesel up over €600. They are acting the goat.

pog it

RichardAnd wrote: »

I don't think driving at 50 km is going to do much. For one, it's not practical for a great many people for obvious reasons. That being said, fuel prices are avariciously high and I'm more than willing to get involved in anything to address that.

I agree that the 50 (miles) an hour is not going to suit everyone all the time, but people would be doing it as part of a campaign and would do it when they can, obviously not when they are really stuck for time, but if they could do it on the main roads even 80% of the time this would be something.

Maybe there's a better idea out there, this is all I can think of. But motorists are paying high tax as it is and we are being increasingly pushed off the road.

pog it

Welease wrote: »

I'm all for protest, but the protest need to have some element of a solution..

If they lower the tax revenue from motorists, will you support them lowering the income tax brackets so you pay more tax?, or paying extra tax elsewhere (VAT)? I'm guessing no, as this won't help your situation.. and lowering our tax take even further does nothing to help the countries financial situation..

Why not work on that before you decide to clog the nations roads and hamper folks trying to get business done..

It would be as part of a campaign. What else can motorists constructively do? We are sitting ducks. Already we pay taxes that we can hardly afford. Any further taxes and we are going to be pushed over the edge. I'm not going in to how else they can tax as I have no influence there whatsoever. I am a motorist and I think I've contributed enough car related taxes without being hit for more. If you don't want to participate Welease that's fine.

Sadly there are too many people saying 'I'm all for protest but'. I've already said I pull in so you are not holding up traffic for hours on end. Just getting together to make a point.

If you have a better idea, please post with it!

Welease

pog it wrote: »

It would be as part of a campaign. What else can motorists constructively do? We are sitting ducks. Already we pay taxes that we can hardly afford. Any further taxes and we are going to be pushed over the edge.

Any less taxes and this country will go over the edge.. Sorry, and I don't mean to seem uncaring but if you can't afford to drive you can;t afford to drive. You need to look at cheaper vehicles, car sharing, public transport, walking etc. It sucks.. but this country has a defecit that we are borrowing to fund.. Protest to cut tax alone are a waste of time.

pog it wrote: »

I'm not going in to how else they can tax as I have no influence there whatsoever. I am a motorist and I think I've contributed enough car related taxes without being hit for more. If you don't want to participate Welease that's fine.

Sorry but thats not true.. You are a worker so you are paying tax.. You have as much influence there as a driver of a car does on motor tax.. It's probably no influence, but your seems like a lazy arguement.. I think I have been hit for more than enough income tax, but I understand that it has to be paid..

pog it wrote: »

Sadly there are too many people saying 'I'm all for protest but'. I've already said I pull in so you are not holding up traffic for hours on end. Just getting together to make a point.

If you have a better idea, please post with it!

I did.. Why don't you come up with an alternative funding source for the reduction in motor revenue.. Without an alternative, it will get lumped in with the other million "I think I should pay less tax" whines while we continue to gather far less tax than we need. With it, people will start to take the proposal seriously.

(I'm not trying to be rude, but this is about the 20th similar proposal on here.. and nothing ever gets done because those who "organise" it don't actually want to do anything, they just want to whine... Fair play if you actually go the step beyond that, but I wouldnt join until you give me an alternative source for funding).

fliball123

Welease wrote: »

Any less taxes and this country will go over the edge.. Sorry, and I don't mean to seem uncaring but if you can't afford to drive you can;t afford to drive. You need to look at cheaper vehicles, car sharing, public transport, walking etc. It sucks.. but this country has a defecit that we are borrowing to fund.. Protest to cut tax alone are a waste of time.



Sorry but thats not true.. You are a worker so you are paying tax.. You have as much influence there as a driver of a car does on motor tax.. It's probably no influence, but your seems like a lazy arguement.. I think I have been hit for more than enough income tax, but I understand that it has to be paid..



I did.. Why don't you come up with an alternative funding source for the reduction in motor revenue.. Without an alternative, it will get lumped in with the other million "I think I should pay less tax" whines while we continue to gather far less tax than we need. With it, people will start to take the proposal seriously.

(I'm not trying to be rude, but this is about the 20th similar proposal on here.. and nothing ever gets done because those who "organise" it don't actually want to do anything, they just want to whine... Fair play if you actually go the step beyond that, but I wouldnt join until you give me an alternative source for funding).

Your argument would hold water if we had a decent mode of public transport in the country

grumpymunster

I have reduced my speed considerably for the past year or so. By doing so I pay less tax as the car is more efficient, it takes a little longer to get to where I am going but as they say when God made time he made lots of it so I just leave earlier.

Sesshoumaru

fliball123 wrote: »

Your argument would hold water if we had a decent mode of public transport in the country

Taxes levied on motoring are used to run the country. His argument was where else does the money come from if we don't raise motoring related taxes? The state of public transport is irrelevant to that argument.

You decide to tax X less, but then you need to increase taxes on Y to compensate. If you're going to say don't increase a tax or even cut said tax, then you're going to have to show where we can make up that money elsewhere? or if it's part of some viable economic plan to boost our economy? Otherwise what's the point? You're only making half a point!

BeeDI

woodoo wrote: »

Putting the motor tax for the pre 08 cars up in the budget will be a scandal. We are paying enough already.

A 1.6 engine up to nearly €500 and a 1.9 diesel up over €600. They are acting the goat.

Agreed. There are lots and lots of 08 onwards cars taking up space on the roads, just as well as pre 08 cars. These same 08 onwards cars, pay SFA tax compliments of John Gormless and his tree hugging deciples. I sincerely hope these cars have their road tax increased by minimum 200%, in order to have some kind of fairness in the system.:)

pog it

Welease wrote: »

(I'm not trying to be rude, but this is about the 20th similar proposal on here.. and nothing ever gets done because those who "organise" it don't actually want to do anything, they just want to whine... Fair play if you actually go the step beyond that, but I wouldnt join until you give me an alternative source for funding).

Welease you don't need to join. I haven't come on here for a whine, I'm trying to get ideas for a protest. I've just got the 50 miles an hour one, and I'm on here to get more ideas and then go with the best. I have already stated above that I'm willing to put the work in on the protest (I've done so before to good effect but you wouldn't know that). I'm not wasting my time justifying it to you- Sorry, not being rude, but I'm not wasting energy explaining alternative taxation measures and merits or not of them, etc. Go on Vincent Browne or Primetime if you want to argue taxation measures.

I want to get a protest going and to make a point. Simple as. And obviously there are far better ways to tax. That is not what I am doing here. If you don't want to be on board, no prob, but I'm not wasting energy on the wrong things.

pog it

Sesshoumaru wrote: »

Taxes levied on motoring are used to run the country. His argument was where else does the money come from if we don't raise motoring related taxes? The state of public transport is irrelevant to that argument.

You decide to to tax X less, but then you need to increase taxes on Y to compensate. If you're going to say don't increase a tax or even cut said tax, then you're going to have to show where we can make up that money elsewhere? or if it's part of some viable economic plan to boost our economy? Otherwise what's the point? You're only making half a point!

The point is that most motorists have already been squeezed to the max and it's time for the elected Government to tax other areas. Motorists already pay car tax, levies on insurance, and massive taxes on their fuel, not to mention tax on car services and car parts, NCTs, driving test at 85 euro, etc. We have no more left to give. That does not mean we should be pushed off the road. We pay a lot as it is and more than have paid for our right to drive our car without being asked to pay more and more.

Sesshoumaru

BeeDI wrote: »

Agreed. There are lots and lots of 08 onwards cars taking up space on the roads, just as well as pre 08 cars. These same 08 onwards cars, pay SFA tax compliments of John Gormless and his tree hugging deciples. I sincerely hope these cars have their road tax increased by minimum 200%, in order to have some kind of fairness in the system.:)

People with Post 08 cars have made a big contribution recently by paying a lot of money towards VAT & VRT on their new car. Someone who goes out and buys a secondhand car isn't making that contribution to our countries finances.

Sesshoumaru

pog it wrote: »

The point is that most motorists have already been squeezed to the max and it's time for the elected Government to tax other areas. Motorists already pay car tax, levies on insurance, and massive taxes on their fuel, not to mention tax on car services and car parts, NCTs, driving test at 85 euro, etc. We have no more left to give. That does not mean we should be pushed off the road. We pay a lot as it is and more than have paid for our right to drive our car without being asked to pay more and more.

So they need to introduce a tax that you don't have to pay if you own a car?

pog it

Okay for anyone interested can we all focus on ideas and make sure we are not distracted?

If 50 miles an hour is the best way to make the point then so be it.

donalg1

Any more increases in the price of petrol will be a killer but I still wont protest, cant be bothered sure, will just shut up and pay up but anyone wanting to protest and then goes ahead and does it well fair play, but if you are driving at 50mph please move over and let cars driving the speed limit pass you, even with a sticker on the back it will still annoy me no end if you are holding me up by driving at 50 in a 60 or 70 zone.

Heard yesterday they are going to increase motor tax by 5% for everybody too, but not sure how true this is, anyone else hear this?

fred252

Sesshoumaru wrote: »

People with Post 08 cars have made a big contribution recently by paying a lot of money towards VAT & VRT on their new car. Someone who goes out and buys a secondhand car isn't making that contribution to our countries finances.

at the same time somone who can afford a post 08 car is in a better position to pay increased tax than someone who can't.

pog it

donalg1 wrote: »

Any more increases in the price of petrol will be a killer but I still wont protest, cant be bothered sure, will just shut up and pay up but anyone wanting to protest and then goes ahead and does it well fair play, but if you are driving at 50mph please move over and let cars driving the speed limit pass you, even with a sticker on the back it will still annoy me no end if you are holding me up by driving at 50 in a 60 or 70 zone.

Heard yesterday they are going to increase motor tax by 5% for everybody too, but not sure how true this is, anyone else hear this?

Yes Donalg1 I already mentioned in my first post how I am mindful to drive in the extreme left, or pull in to the hard shoulder when it's possible. We are drivers after all and mindful of others on the road. Obviously I think it's a shame you're happy to take everything thrown at you but that is your own decision.

Sesshoumaru

fred252 wrote: »

at the same time somone who can afford a post 08 car is in a better position to pay increased tax than someone who can't.

A lot of people who bought a new car also probably did so with a loan. So perhaps they actually have less disposable income than someone who only ever buys secondhand cars. Lets face it, not everyone who can afford a new car actually buys a new car. A lot of people are happy to always buy secondhand. Aren't these people the ones we should target? VAT & VRT are a huge chunk of change on any new car, so new car people have already put their hands in their pockets to help the country.

fred252

Sesshoumaru wrote: »

A lot of people who bought a new car also probably did so with a loan. So perhaps they actually have less disposable income than someone who only ever buys secondhand cars. Lets face it, not everyone who can afford a new car actually buys a new car. A lot of people are happy to always buy secondhand. Aren't these people the ones we should target? VAT & VRT are a huge chunk of change on any new car, so new car people have already put their hands in their pockets to help the country.

the motivation for people buying new cars is to help the country? pull the other one.

i'm not suggesting who should be targetted. i just take issue with the approach the government appears to be taking i.e. tax increases across the board rather than anything progressive. in the case of an increase in motor tax on pre 08 cars I guess this will effect low/middle earners more so than middle/upper. i think its a fair assumption that the majority of new car purchases are not based on credit, especially these days.

Welease

fliball123 wrote: »

Your argument would hold water if we had a decent mode of public transport in the country

Thats not my arguement.. Try reading what I posted.

Sesshoumaru

fred252 wrote: »

the motivation for people buying new cars is to help the country? pull the other one.

I didn't say it was their motivation, just pointing out that it is a fact. The same kind of argument has been used to justify those who bought houses during the boom not paying an annual property tax as they have paid a huge amount in stamp duty. You can't just take one piece in isolation (lower road tax) and say they need to pay more road taxes and completely ignore the huge amount of VAT & VRT those new car purchases brought into the state coffers.

fred252 wrote: »

i'm not suggesting who should be targetted. i just take issue with the approach the government appears to be taking i.e. tax increases across the board rather than anything progressive. in the case of an increase in motor tax on pre 08 cars I guess this will effect low/middle earners more so than middle/upper. i think its a fair assumption that the majority of new car purchases are not based on credit, especially these days.

Banks are still giving loans for cars, so it's not a fair assumption. It would be interesting if we could find hard data for this. Also not every new car purchased is a luxury BMW or Audi. The Fiat website has a new Fiat Panda starting at just under 10k.

pog it

Okay so I think the 50 miles an hour could be effective, once we're all considerate to other drivers on the road. If anything slowing down has even more benefits than just protesting against increased vat and also direct motor tax hikes which donalg1 says has been mooted and I well believe them.

I've asked in the digital art and design forum to see if anyone there can help with a design for the logo so hopefully someone can help. I think once we have that which is the key thing, we can get them printed off into bumper stickers and launch on facebook at the same time, and even if we have 5 people on board to begin with the message will surely get out when we're on the roads.

If anyone has any other ideas re. the design or getting the message out please PM me.

ianuss

Welease wrote: »

Thats not my arguement.. Try reading what I posted.

But sure that would get in the way of a good rant.

Welease

pog it wrote: »

The point is that most motorists have already been squeezed to the max and it's time for the elected Government to tax other areas. Motorists already pay car tax, levies on insurance, and massive taxes on their fuel, not to mention tax on car services and car parts, NCTs, driving test at 85 euro, etc. We have no more left to give. That does not mean we should be pushed off the road. We pay a lot as it is and more than have paid for our right to drive our car without being asked to pay more and more.

It may be a case that YOU have no more to give.. and if so, then while obviously difficult for you does not mean that the same applies to the rest of the country. Either way you want to spin it, this country has a colossal defecit, and a government voted in with the remit for 2/3 expenditure cuts and 1/3 revenue raises.. This is potentially part of the 1/3 revenue raises.

I would take your proposal seriously if you would even venture to try and work out how the revenue could be replaced. But you won't, so this is nothing more than "I don't see why I should pay" type rant, and I'm guessing the vast majority of people will react in the same manner.

The simple fact appears to be.. you want the government to tax "other areas" which roughly translates as "areas you don't have to pay".. It might be time to wake up to the fact that that won't happen.

seamus

Actually, I have less issue with this kind of protest than other protests which boil down to, "Stop taxing us and give us more services" - i.e. protests which are functionally pointless and ridiculous.

At least in this regard you have a focus - Motorists are paying a lot of tax, so please consider other areas for taxation first.

I accept that you have a fairly valid basis on which to protest, but I don't actually agree with your assertion. Yes, a lot of tax comes from the motorist, but then transport is a big ticket cost. In 2010, the tax take from motorists (fuel, VRT, VAT, tax, etc) was €4bn. That's only a third of what the NRA spent on motoring infrastructure (€12bn) in that year.
So while we have to hand over a lot as motorists, the simple fact is that in a country of our size, it costs the state a lot to keep us on the road.

Granted, next year we will see very little investment in new projects, it will all be maintenance and so on, but even then we would be doing extremely well if we managed to break even on transport.

As a big ticket item, motoring will be targetted. It has to be. When a country is as much in the hole as we are, it's a waste of time to be saving or making €2m here and €10m there. We have to look at measures which return savings or income in the hundreds of millions if we want to make a proper dent in our liabilities. Increasing the tax on every registered vehicle in the country by €100/year would raise nearly €200m. So you can see why it's a much better option to target the motorist rather than look for scraps of income elsewhere.

€100/year sounds like a lot up front. But it's about 5c per litre of fuel.

I agree with Welease in that there's practically zero chance that this government will respond to any protests against additional taxation. Regardless of what they tax, someone is affected, so they just have to get on with it.

Motorists will adjust. Unless someone is already driving the smallest car they can and avoiding unecessary travel as much as they can, then there is always more that can be squeezed from them.

antoobrien

seamus wrote: »

I accept that you have a fairly valid basis on which to protest, but I don't actually agree with your assertion. Yes, a lot of tax comes from the motorist, but then transport is a big ticket cost. In 2010, the tax take from motorists (fuel, VRT, VAT, tax, etc) was €4bn. That's only a third of what the NRA spent on motoring infrastructure (€12bn) in that year.

I highly doubt the NRA spent 16 billion in 2010 - proof please.

Regardless you're comparing apples & oranges.

Infrastructure is a capital spend - it can be (and usually is) amortized over several years - meaning we don't pay for it at once (the €70 billion in debt we had at the start of 2008).

That €4 billion you referred to is a current receipt. The revenue generated from these receipts com will come in every year - we won't spend €12 billion every year on transport. This year the target (capital & current) for transport is €2 billion.

So the road users will pay for the roads (at that rate of investment & tax) in 6 years (more than likely longer).

That 4 billion is also more than 10% of the next tax take. If you take motor fuel out of excise the takings last year were about €2.8 billion.

It's interesting that the motorist pays more excise duty than we receive from stamp duty, CGT, CAT & customs combined.

pog it

Welease wrote: »

It may be a case that YOU have no more to give.. and if so, then while obviously difficult for you does not mean that the same applies to the rest of the country. Either way you want to spin it, this country has a colossal defecit, and a government voted in with the remit for 2/3 expenditure cuts and 1/3 revenue raises.. This is potentially part of the 1/3 revenue raises.

I would take your proposal seriously if you would even venture to try and work out how the revenue could be replaced. But you won't, so this is nothing more than "I don't see why I should pay" type rant, and I'm guessing the vast majority of people will react in the same manner.

The simple fact appears to be.. you want the government to tax "other areas" which roughly translates as "areas you don't have to pay".. It might be time to wake up to the fact that that won't happen.

Like I said earlier Welease this is not the place to argue where taxation should occur. I am saying that the majority (obviously) of motorists have already more than paid their dues and taxes for their right to be on the road. Any increase is unacceptable. Yes, of course, there are plenty of people who won't complain but for those of us on the edge - and according to several reports and surveys, say the League of Credit Unions for one, and the increase in people turning to SVP, people are in trouble. Motorists have already paid and are paying more than their dues. I am not looking to investigate where it moves to, or to even go into the whole bail-out thing, and who is paying the 200k salaries of Nama developers (no doubt they don't need to protest when we are paying more taxes to cover their salaries).

So, Welease, move on. I'm not entering into a debate on this with you as it's just plain useless and ineffective. Please do us a favour and move on if you are not interested in this campaign.

invinciblePRSTV

fliball123 wrote: »

Your argument would hold water if we had a decent mode of public transport in the country

Given Irish people's fetish for wanting to build and live in rural one-off housing miles from anywhere - with 100km+ commutes to work common - we have as about as decent a public transport sytem as you're going to get with such dispersed population settlement.

Given this, whinges about the price of petrol should get little sympathy. If your lifestyle choices include having to go on a 15km roundtrip to pick up a pint of milk in your car- then people should probably re-consider their lifestyle options rather then wanting to protest about petrol prices of all things.

gandalf

I would love to be in a position to change my 03 car but I can't afford it. It galls me already that I am paying nearly €450 more than others with the same size engine and emissions as me just with newer post 08 cars.

IMHO the fairest way forward would be to tax based on usage and the simplest way to do that is to levy the tax on the consumable which is fuel. Abolish car tax as it current stands and either reassign or terminate the surplus staff involved in collections.

pog it

invinciblePRSTV wrote: »

Given this, whinges about the price of petrol should get little sympathy. If your lifestyle choices include having to go on a 15km roundtrip to pick up a pint of milk in your car- then people should probably re-consider their lifestyle options rather then wanting to protest about petrol prices of all things.

This is about hard pressed motorists who have to drive to get to work, etc. not get a pint of milk. Again, if you're not interested in the campaign, that's not a problem. It's ironic. Those who are accusing me of being on here to whinge and whine are actually the ones doing the whinging and whining on this thread

Welease

pog it wrote: »

Like I said earlier Welease this is not the place to argue where taxation should occur. I am saying that the majority (obviously) of motorists have already more than paid their dues and taxes for their right to be on the road. Any increase is unacceptable. Yes, of course, there are plenty of people who won't complain but for those of us on the edge - and according to several reports and surveys, say the League of Credit Unions for one, and the increase in people turning to SVP, people are in trouble. Motorists have already paid and are paying more than their dues. I am not looking to investigate where it moves to, or to even go into the whole bail-out thing, and who is paying the 200k salaries of Nama developers (no doubt they don't need to protest when we are paying more taxes to cover their salaries).

So, Welease, move on. I'm not entering into a debate on this with you as it's just plain useless and ineffective. Please do us a favour and move on if you are not interested in this campaign.

Well if thats your attitude, then can I suggest if you don't want an economic discussion about your proposal (or you don't want any discussion at all), then don't post it on a forum that exists for economic discussion..

pog it

pog it wrote: »

That's what I want to find out. I'm already on the edge - I changed career and am just working part-time and studying. Any further increases and I'm not exaggerating but I'm going to be in serious trouble.

........................

Anyone working part time, studying and running a car will struggle, such is life, it makes sense really.

pog it

gandalf wrote: »

I would love to be in a position to change my 03 car but I can't afford it. It galls me already that I am paying nearly €450 more than others with the same size engine and emissions as me just with newer post 08 cars.

IMHO the fairest way forward would be to tax based on usage and the simplest way to do that is to levy the tax on the consumable which is fuel. Abolish car tax as it current stands and either reassign or terminate the surplus staff involved in collections.

That is a great idea which has been mooted already in the media but again it just would not suit the government and they won't do it.

We can come up with all the ideas for taxation but guess what, we have no influence and no say whatsoever.

pog it

Welease wrote: »

Well if thats your attitude, then can I suggest if you don't want an economic discussion about your proposal (or you don't want any discussion at all), then don't post it on a forum that exists for economic discussion..

You can suggest whatever you want but it's not going to do you any good. This thread is about a protest that relates to VAT and tax increases affecting motorists who are key contributors to the Irish economy. If I wanted to start a thread on ideas for taxation I would have done so. You seem to be really interested in alternatives- why not start a thread about that? Stop trying to deviate away from what this thread is about. It's about discussion and ACTION and actually achieving something.

Welease

pog it wrote: »

That is a great idea which has been mooted already in the media but again it just would not suit the government and they won't do it.

We can come up with all the ideas for taxation but guess what, we have no influence and no say whatsoever.

So you are just gonna slow down traffic and pat yourself on the back for a job well done?

Can you explain to me what you are attempting to achieve, if you don't believe thats it's necessary to have proposals (because you believe the government won't listen).

pog it

Welease wrote: »

So you are just gonna slow down traffic and pat yourself on the back for a job well done?

Can you explain to me what you are attempting to achieve, if you don't believe thats it's necessary to have proposals (because you believe the government won't listen).

Welease your objective is possibly to have this thread locked. I regret to say I don't trust you and I will have to ignore your posts from now on. I have explained the reason why numerous times above.

Welease

pog it wrote: »

You can suggest whatever you want but it's not going to do you any good. This thread is about a protest that relates to VAT and tax increases affecting motorists who are key contributors to the Irish economy. If I wanted to start a thread on ideas for taxation I would have done so. You seem to be really interested in alternatives- why not start a thread about that? Stop trying to deviate away from what this thread is about. It's about discussion and ACTION and actually achieving something.

But you are not discussing anything.. You are saying you don't want to have to pay increased motor taxation of any kind and are going to drive slow to protest.. Thats not a discussion.. Any discussion points put to you by me or anyone else are just being ignored.

invinciblePRSTV

pog it wrote: »

invinciblePRSTV wrote: »

Given this, whinges about the price of petrol should get little sympathy. If your lifestyle choices include having to go on a 15km roundtrip to pick up a pint of milk in your car- then people should probably re-consider their lifestyle options rather then wanting to protest about petrol prices of all things.

This is about hard pressed motorists who have to drive to get to work, etc. not get a pint of milk. Again, if you're not interested in the campaign, that's not a problem. It's ironic. Those who are accusing me of being on here to whinge and whine are actually the ones doing the whinging and whining on this thread

You appear to have ignored my first paragraph where i addressed the issue of "hard pressed" motorists and their long distance commuting habits.

Why don't you share with us your daily commuting habits? how long is it, where are you going to and from and would it not be better to a) move closer to wherever it is you're spending a fortune in petrol to get to, or b) use public transport?

Sesshoumaru

pog it wrote: »

You can suggest whatever you want but it's not going to do you any good. This thread is about a protest that relates to VAT and tax increases affecting motorists who are key contributors to the Irish economy. If I wanted to start a thread on ideas for taxation I would have done so. You seem to be really interested in alternatives- why not start a thread about that? Stop trying to deviate away from what this thread is about. It's about discussion and ACTION and actually achieving something.

Tax collection is a system, how can you look at one part of the system in isolation? When it comes to the finances of this country we have one overriding goal, to reduce expenditure and balance the budget. If you can't explain how your proposal fits into that goal, then it's a waste of time.

pog it

invinciblePRSTV wrote: »

You appear to have ignored my first paragraph where i addressed the issue of "hard pressed" motorists and their long distance commuting habits.

Why don't you share with us your daily commuting habits? how long is it, where are you going to and from and would it not be better to a) move closer to wherever it is you're spending a fortune in petrol to get to, or b) use public transport?

My point is that motorists have been squeezed as much as we can be squeezed. We have no more money to give. That does not mean we should go off the roads, though some of us just may have to if these increases go ahead. Is this what you would like to happen? As regards my own driving habits you will have to take my word for it that I need a car, as much as I DETEST having to have one. One major reason is very personal but I will say on that, that I have a very ill parent. You shouldn't need much more info on the reasons why a car is necessary for that reason alone even.

Welease

pog it wrote: »

Welease your objective is possibly to have this thread locked. I regret to say I don't trust you and I will have to ignore your posts from now on. I have explained the reason why numerous times above.

My guess is you will ignoring a lot of people who ask simple questions..

pog it

Sesshoumaru wrote: »

Tax collection is a system, how can you look at one part of the system in isolation? When it comes to the finances of this country we have one overriding goal, to reduce expenditure and balance the budget. If you can't explain how your proposal fits into that goal, then it's a waste of time.

You can look at it in isolation because motorists are already paying the max they can afford. Of course there are motorists who are not struggling but there is a majority who are being pushed out all the time and they are just being weakened and pulled down all the time. It's time to make a stand.
I'm not getting into the bail-out and what they could have done and the rights and the wrongs here. This thread is about ideas for action and action.

Again, I'm not going to be distracted any further. Just move on if you're not interested in the campaign. There must be some other thread you are interested in on boards.

pog it

Welease wrote: »

My guess is you will ignoring a lot of people who ask simple questions..

Not at all. I have more than answered and given my reasoning. If you don't like it, no problem

doc_17

Abolish motor tax and put the cost on the litre of diesel/petrol. That way those who drive more, pay more

invinciblePRSTV

pog it wrote: »

invinciblePRSTV wrote: »

You appear to have ignored my first paragraph where i addressed the issue of "hard pressed" motorists and their long distance commuting habits.

Why don't you share with us your daily commuting habits? how long is it, where are you going to and from and would it not be better to a) move closer to wherever it is you're spending a fortune in petrol to get to, or b) use public transport?

My point is that motorists have been squeezed as much as we can be squeezed. We have no more money to give. That does not mean we should go off the roads, though some of us just may have to if these increases go ahead. Is this what you would like to happen? As regards my own driving habits you will have to take my word for it that I need a car, as much as I DETEST having to have one. One major reason is very personal but I will say on that, that I have a very ill parent. You shouldn't need much more info on the reasons why a car is necessary for that reason alone even.

I asked what your commute was and why can't you use public transport. Do you live in an urban area? Is your commute a long distance one? sick parents aside you havy many options besides using a car all the time if you're in an urban area or have daily long distance commutes that doesn't involve protesting the price of petrol.

pog it

doc_17 wrote: »

Abolish motor tax and put the cost on the litre of diesel/petrol. That way those who drive more, pay more

Ideally, yes, but the Government would rather increase both the taxes on fuel and the rate of direct motor tax.

I'm working on a logo for the campaign and will post up link to facebook page for info. Hopefully a small campaign at the very least can get going and we'll see what takes off from there.

pog it

invinciblePRSTV wrote: »

I asked what your commute was and why can't you use public transport. Do you live in an urban area? Is your commute a long distance one? sick parents aside you havy many options besides using a car all the time if you're in an urban area or have daily long distance commutes that doesn't involve protesting the price of petrol.

I've given you more than enough personal information.

You didn't answer my question as to whether you want some of us pushed off the roads due to extra taxes and costs?