Iarnród Éireann charging adult fare on school trip

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Sundy wrote: »

Some of the people on this thread make me cringe.. Mainly this




Its a fifteen year old child wanting to get a child fare to go on a train, carrying your passport is not practical or sensible. Hey its not even practical bringing it on a night out.
Imagine all the children of Ireland walking around with their passports in their pocket.. are you really think that is practical? Think about it.

Photocopy?

loobylou

loobylou wrote: »

My children use/used the DART from Greystones to get to school. Got a reduced rate up to age 16, paid full rate for 2 years and then get a reduced rate again because they're in college.
The system is full of anomalies.

It's because you can work at 16. If you leave school to work, well then you can pay an adult fare, and if you stay in school you can get the student travelcard as already mentioned.

nimrod86 wrote: »

Yeap, all we wanted was a child return from greystones to tara street for under those eligable for it and an adult return for those who weren't.

You're honestly saying that 60 students showed up, and you expect the ticket office to be able to pick out the 25 15 year olds among the other 35 16 year olds? And you really think that none of the 16 year olds would have lied about their age? I'm not saying you're dishonest, I'm just pointing out that the probability lies heavily with not all students being honest.
I agree that it would greatly benefit the situation if there was an ID card for people your age, but I think the real fault here lies with your school.

foggy_lad

true-or-false wrote: »

It's because you can work at 16. If you leave school to work, well then you can pay an adult fare, and if you stay in school you can get the student travelcard as already mentioned.


You're honestly saying that 60 students showed up, and you expect the ticket office to be able to pick out the 25 15 year olds among the other 35 16 year olds? And you really think that none of the 16 year olds would have lied about their age? I'm not saying you're dishonest, I'm just pointing out that the probability lies heavily with not all students being honest.
I agree that it would greatly benefit the situation if there was an ID card for people your age, but I think the real fault here lies with your school.

IMHO the fault lies with the students who all live around Greystones so are very familiar with rules and conditions of carriage for both Dublin bus and Irish rail so they should all have been carrying proof of age as obviously properly assessing their age is going to be an issue. Schools and teachers can only do so much and apart from treating them as having special needs and looking after everything for them the teachers did their bit.

challengemaster

nimrod86 wrote: »

That's my point, there is no ID that may be deemed suitable which you are OBLIGED to have!

You're missing the point, really.

The onus is on YOU, not them to prove what age you are. They've outlined what circumstances they'll give discounted fares for, so you have to do the rest to satisfy those circumstances. If they've said they need ID, then it's up to you to provide some form of ID, it's not up to them (or anyone else) to get that ID for you.

You're really showing your age with the attitude of "Why am I expected to do anything" which is very prevalent here

They can't expect me to go out of my way to say I'm not LYING

Cookie_Monster

Sundy wrote: »

Some of the people on this thread make me cringe.. .

What makes you cringe?

The rules are very simple, you need proof of age to avail of a kids fare if queried by staff.
60+ students and a couple of teachers couldn't figure this out in advance, or think to seek a group discount.
There are several acceptable IDs, passports included (or even copies if you are so worried that you are incapable about carrying it around)

Victor

superscouse wrote: »

What ejit organised it?

No need for this.

foggy_lad

challengemaster wrote: »

You're missing the point, really.

The onus is on YOU, not them to prove what age you are. They've outlined what circumstances they'll give discounted fares for, so you have to do the rest to satisfy those circumstances. If they've said they need ID, then it's up to you to provide some form of ID, it's not up to them (or anyone else) to get that ID for you.

You're really showing your age with the attitude of "Why am I expected to do anything" which is very prevalent here

Compounding this would be the same attitudes prevailing amongst teachers in the group and in general who feel rules should not apply because it might require young people to be somewhat responsible for themselves or a small piece of paper.

dowlingm

The ticket seller isn't the end of the matter. Suppose the ticket seller went the "common sense" route (sell child tickets to get them out of his hair). Nothing to stop an RPU lad handing out a bunch of fines on board, is there?

I agree with those who said this was bad planning by the school. If you're handling a large bunch of kids in loco parentis it's up to you to find out the details rather than make the kids themselves figure it out.

ScouseMouse

Victor wrote: »

No need for this.

Apologies Victor if I have offended, but I find it incredible somebody in a school could organise a group trip and let this happen.

In my eyes it is incompetent.

corktina

dowlingm wrote: »

The ticket seller isn't the end of the matter. Suppose the ticket seller went the "common sense" route (sell child tickets to get them out of his hair). Nothing to stop an RPU lad handing out a bunch of fines on board, is there?

I agree with those who said this was bad planning by the school. If you're handling a large bunch of kids in loco parentis it's up to you to find out the details rather than make the kids themselves figure it out.

...or indeed the ticket seller being disciplined for not following the rules...

AlekSmart

superscouse wrote: »

Apologies Victor if I have offended, but I find it incredible somebody in a school could organise a group trip and let this happen.

In my eyes it is incompetent.

I actually believe this experience is a positive "Life Skills" one.

This group of 60 young persons have been presented with a reasonably accurate everyday scenario on Public Transport and have had to swiftly alter their attitudes and plans to cope.

Nobody was injured or physically maltreated during the making of this scenario,and everybody appeared to come away with some small lesson indelibly imprinted on their consiousness.

Yes,of course some may have now made an early decision to NEVER use any form of dreadful public transport ever again,such is life,but if it means that one extra young person is now equipped with a little more appreciation of the term,T's & C's then it's a Win-Win situation.

Having said that It will be interesting to see the Ministerial responses to the complaints of awfulness and associated other failures of IR in applying their rules to the group.

Most of the class will be voting in a year or two so some enterprising Politician may decide to front-load their canvass in Greystones !!!

schemingbohemia

AlekSmart wrote: »

I actually believe this experience is a positive "Life Skills" one.

This group of 60 young persons have been presented with a reasonably accurate everyday scenario on Public Transport and have had to swiftly alter their attitudes and plans to cope.

Nobody was injured or physically maltreated during the making of this scenario,and everybody appeared to come away with some small lesson indelibly imprinted on their consiousness.

Yes,of course some may have now made an early decision to NEVER use any form of dreadful public transport ever again,such is life,but if it means that one extra young person is now equipped with a little more appreciation of the term,T's & C's then it's a Win-Win situation.

Having said that It will be interesting to see the Ministerial responses to the complaints of awfulness and associated other failures of IR in applying their rules to the group.

Most of the class will be voting in a year or two so some enterprising Politician may decide to front-load their canvass in Greystones !!!

From Nimrod's posts I'm not sure a valuable life lesson has been learnt, though s/he does seem to have cottoned onto the prevailing mood of the country which is to blame someone else for the situation they've found themselves in!

zagmund

Janey lads, aren't you all the big fellas ? Let's all *keep* on going about something that a kid asked. And then keep it going some more, just to make a point.

Were you never a kid in school ? Were you never a kid ?

If I was in school and the teacher said to turn up at the DART station for a trip and bring €X, then that is what I would do. If it turned out that I needed more than €X then so be it. I would query it, I would probably get annoyed about it, I might bring it on to boards.ie to see what the adults have to say. That's all reasonable.

The key thing here is that the teachers should have been copped on. They're the ones in charge, not the kids. Its' the teachers who are at fault in a number of ways. From the perspective of a school kid, there's a valid concern here, but all that's needed is to lay out the facts and quit with the grandstanding.

Two life lessons are to be found in these pages - 1) check the terms and conditions (or have an adult do it for you) & 2) some people on the internet don't know when to get down off their horse.

z

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zagmund wrote: »

Janey lads, aren't you all the big fellas ? Let's all *keep* on going about something that a kid asked. And then keep it going some more, just to make a point.

Were you never a kid in school ? Were you never a kid ?

If I was in school and the teacher said to turn up at the DART station for a trip and bring €X, then that is what I would do. If it turned out that I needed more than €X then so be it. I would query it, I would probably get annoyed about it, I might bring it on to boards.ie to see what the adults have to say. That's all reasonable.

The key thing here is that the teachers should have been copped on. They're the ones in charge, not the kids. Its' the teachers who are at fault in a number of ways. From the perspective of a school kid, there's a valid concern here, but all that's needed is to lay out the facts and quit with the grandstanding.

Two life lessons are to be found in these pages - 1) check the terms and conditions (or have an adult do it for you) & 2) some people on the internet don't know when to get down off their horse.

z

Blame has been attributed to the teachers quite a few times during this.
But at the same time these kids are 15, old enough to have enough sense to know that they may need to prove their age, I knew it when I was 15 and I barely used the public transport system! You can see that some of the guys did know it too as they were clever enough to bring some form of id.

Yes the teachers should have warned the boys, but they shouldn't need to be mammied either. It works two ways imo

foggy_lad

dowlingm wrote: »

The ticket seller isn't the end of the matter. Suppose the ticket seller went the "common sense" route (sell child tickets to get them out of his hair). Nothing to stop an RPU lad handing out a bunch of fines on board, is there?

I agree with those who said this was bad planning by the school. If you're handling a large bunch of kids in loco parentis it's up to you to find out the details rather than make the kids themselves figure it out.

Most adults would see no harm in "kids"this age having sex and smoking and even drinking yet ask the same kids to use a bit of common sense and all sense goes out the window. Teachers and adults can only do so much for 15 year olds as at this age they are expected to be potty trained and capable of using the dart and bus and they would all have known of the possibility of being asked for proof of age.

They will never stand on their own feet and clean up after themselves And grow into responsible citizens if the teachers and adults keep shielding them from reality.

Dodge

zagmund wrote: »

Two life lessons are to be found in these pages - 1) check the terms and conditions (or have an adult do it for you) & 2) some people on the internet don't know when to get down off their horse.

You forgot "3) People will complain about anything that inconveniences them, even if they're in the wrong"

AlekSmart

zagmund wrote: »

Janey lads, aren't you all the big fellas ? Let's all *keep* on going about something that a kid asked. And then keep it going some more, just to make a point.

Two life lessons are to be found in these pages - 1) check the terms and conditions (or have an adult do it for you) & 2) some people on the internet don't know when to get down off their horse.

z

That is quite correct Zagmund,however the Hi-Horse trot's both ways,as Nimrod86 has returned to the fray several times now with ever more strident clarifications and demands regarding the occurrence.

It's one thing having Life Lessons outlined and demonstrated to you,but actually taking them on-board appears to be the problem here ?

I suspect that of the 60 young folk,perhaps 50% will have actually learned a new skill from the event....we know that 1 was (The European Health Card boy) actually prepared,and probably will ever be thus...so perhaps Nimrod86 can see a positive outcome,apart from outlining the awfulness of Public Transport usage ?

AlekSmart

foggy_lad wrote: »

Most adults would see no harm in "kids"this age having sex and smoking and even drinking yet ask the same kids to use a bit of common sense and all sense goes out the window. Teachers and adults can only do so much for 15 year olds as at this age they are expected to be potty trained and capable of using the dart and bus and they would all have known of the possibility of being asked for proof of age.

They will never stand on their own feet and clean up after themselves And grow into responsible citizens if the teachers and adults keep shielding them from reality.

More than a grain of truth here Foggy_Lad......:(

This ongoing thread gives a taste of what "Children" are increasingly capable of when Adults decide to go-to-lunch....

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056456135

saa

nimrod86 wrote: »

I have requested a refund and an apology for my whole class, also they don't specify an ID or say what they deem suitable. And this is in no part my schools fault, we all had the right dart fare for our age, and we have never prebooked before, if 60 people get on a train do they need to prebook? no... so why should we?

I can see your point, I can see the failings within the under 16's ID issue
but all the t&c's are online and it would seem that Irish rail would only be able to apologies for the inconvenience of your pupils not being aware of the ticketing system especially TY's should be aware or usually pupils are informed of how much a trip will cost if going with the school.

IMO a school teaching should pre book for 60 children to make sure everyone is aware of the cost and no one turns up without money or enough and there is less time taken to issue everyone tickets.


The ID system is a issue that I hope your complaint helps push forward,

Aard

It's a little from column A, a little from column B.


On the one hand, the teacher/school should have organised it better. Let the Dart station know that 60 kids were coming along, or let the kids know that they'd need id. There's plenty of incompetent 15 year olds out there (which may or may not include the ones who don't get drunk and shag each other). Now I don't know about the residents of Greystones, but when I was in school I'd often have only enough to cover my bus fare with me. In this case, I'd probably have had a fiver (packed lunch from mammy ftw). There's a certain amount of responsibility that lies with the school. What are they meant to say to the kids with too little money -- sorry go home?

OTOH, of course, life lesson and all that. Be prepared, plan for the worst. 15's a good age to get a kick up the arse about Real Life ®.