Replace up to 50% of public service with Volunteers?

drunkmonkey

Would it work, there's plenty of jobs there that communities could do themselves. Simple things like filling in a pothole, rather than waiting for years to the local councils to do it they could simply put in an expense claim for a shovel to 2 of gravel. Little things like that we could do ourselves.
What do you think, is there some merit in the idea.

liammur

drunkmonkey wrote: »

Would it work, there's plenty of jobs there that communities could do themselves. Simple things like filling in a pothole, rather than waiting for years to the local councils to do it they could simply put in an expense claim for a shovel to 2 of gravel. Little things like that we could do ourselves.
What do you think, is there some merit in the idea.

Ya, but the only thing is if it's a success they might get someone from the community to do your job free as well.

ianuss

drunkmonkey wrote: »

Would it work, there's plenty of jobs there that communities could do themselves. Simple things like filling in a pothole, rather than waiting for years to the local councils to do it they could simply put in an expense claim for a shovel to 2 of gravel. Little things like that we could do ourselves.
What do you think, is there some merit in the idea.

Great idea in theory but there's the issue of liability, negligence and insurance for a start.

ianuss

ianuss wrote: »

Great idea in theory but there's the issue of liability, negligence and insurance for a start.

Not to mention those damned unions...

liammur

Deleted User wrote: »

Not to mention those damned unions...

Then the great idea could be extended to the private sector, get some university graduates in to do other people's work, they'd do it for a lot less, make the economy far more competitive all round.

Welease

liammur wrote: »

Then the great idea could be extended to the private sector, get some university graduates in to do other people's work, they'd do it for a lot less, make the economy far more competitive all round.

They do.. It's called JobBridge
http://www.jobbridge.ie/

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

The_Thing

This would have to be agreed to by the unions beforehand.

liammur

Welease wrote: »

They do.. It's called JobBridge
http://www.jobbridge.ie/

Ah no, I'm talking about completely replacing the existing workers, not merely a placement scheme, a bit like replacing the PS workers. We'd get the economy moving again and make it competitive.

yobr

liammur wrote: »

Ah no, I'm talking about completely replacing the existing workers, not merely a placement scheme, a bit like replacing the PS workers. We'd get the economy moving again and make it competitive.

So we would get the economy competitive by effectively sacking public sector workers, take their wages out of the economy and give their jobs to people who have no experience or skills in the various areas. I am all for volunteering but I don't see this working..

n97 mini

While it's an kind of idiotic idea...

yobr wrote: »

take their wages out of the economy

We're borrowing heavily to pay these wages. These loans have to be paid back, with interest.

oppenheimer1

drunkmonkey wrote: »

Would it work, there's plenty of jobs there that communities could do themselves. Simple things like filling in a pothole, rather than waiting for years to the local councils to do it they could simply put in an expense claim for a shovel to 2 of gravel. Little things like that we could do ourselves.
What do you think, is there some merit in the idea.

Do you actually know the correct way to fill a pothole (serious question)?

relax carry on

But what 50%? The administrators? The doctors? The Guards? The Teachers? The low end pen pushers or the high end pen pushers?

Welease

I did believe this was a joke thread... sadly I'm not so sure now.... and that is worrying..

WalterMitty

Maybe if the huge numbers of public servants on 32 hour contracts did a full weeks work(39 excluding breaks) a lot of the problems in the country could be eased.

Godge

drunkmonkey wrote: »

Would it work, there's plenty of jobs there that communities could do themselves. Simple things like filling in a pothole, rather than waiting for years to the local councils to do it they could simply put in an expense claim for a shovel to 2 of gravel. Little things like that we could do ourselves.
What do you think, is there some merit in the idea.

Another public service bashing thread. What this forum really needs.

This idea is crazy, like some thing a simian with too many beers one night would dream up:).

Seriously, do you realise how few public servants are employed filling potholes? Have you done any research to identify how many public service posts are filled by those with little or no training?

WebGeek

Godge wrote: »

Another public service bashing thread.

We need to keep up the PS bashing and highlight the la la land that they live in if we are to have any hope for the rest of society who live under different rules. The reason we are in suck a deficit it because we have the highest paid PS in the world and we are broke - yet we borrow billions because the govt is afraid of the unions.

fliball123

WebGeek wrote: »

We need to keep up the PS bashing and highlight the la la land that they live in if we are to have any hope for the rest of society who live under different rules. The reason we are in suck a deficit it because we have the highest paid PS in the world and we are broke - yet we borrow billions because the govt is afraid of the unions. We need a Margret Thatcher.

Absolutely...When you see threads on here and how various people will be affected in this budget...Its crazy that an agreement such as the CPA is still in existance

seamus

It's a lofty idea. Unworkable in reality. In some areas, it might work great. Where you have a great sense of community and a core group of people willing to invest time into fixing these problems.

Other areas will simply fall into complete disrepair due to apathy and ignorance. Especially if they have a lot of rented and/or social accomodation.

You'll probably save money alright, but what will happen is that middle and upper class areas that are already good and well-kept will be even better kept. Working class areas which look iffy enough at present will just crumble and decay.

femur61

liammur wrote: »

Then the great idea could be extended to the private sector, get some university graduates in to do other people's work, they'd do it for a lot less, make the economy far more competitive all round.

Isn't that the reason our private pensions were raided recently?

ednwireland

drunkmonkey wrote: »

Would it work, there's plenty of jobs there that communities could do themselves. Simple things like filling in a pothole, rather than waiting for years to the local councils to do it they could simply put in an expense claim for a shovel to 2 of gravel. Little things like that we could do ourselves.
What do you think, is there some merit in the idea.

gravel doesnt work in filling potholes a 25kg bag of cold tar cost €11 in our local hardware (its what i use on the drive and what i think the councils use now to fill potholes) that will fill a medium size pothole (30cm across) leave me a few bags i'll do my road (we do everything else gritting, drains etc anyway)

actually cant complain they were up last week and filled them all

yobr

WebGeek wrote: »

The reason we are in suck a deficit it because we have the highest paid PS in the world and we are broke - yet we borrow billions because the govt is afraid of the unions.

Do you have a link which shows that the Irish public service is the highest paid in the world? Really that's the reason we are running a deficit?....your showing just how little you understand these issues....

WalterMitty

yobr wrote: »

Do you have a link which shows that the Irish public service is the highest paid in the world? Really that's the reason we are running a deficit?....your showing just how little you understand these issues....

A 2004 eurostat survey showed :Ireland's average public sector pay of €45,643 is the highest in the range of six advanced EU countries and compares with Britain at €35,189 and Germany €33,905. Irish public sector pay is 30% higher than Britain's.

Now we know according to CSO public sector average pay kept rising untill 2008 when it was close to 50,000average and we know pay was growing faster here than in other OECD coutnries so the GAP remained or increased between 2004 and now with only small adjustment for pay cut in 2009.
We are not richer than germany and uk and France with our massive debt to GNP by 2015 and cant pay rates much higher than these countries (who are worlds richest ) while being bailed out by them. They will insist on end in coming years.

femur61

yobr wrote: »

Do you have a link which shows that the Irish public service is the highest paid in the world? Really that's the reason we are running a deficit?....your showing just how little you understand these issues....

http://www.iiea.com/blogosphere/public-sector-pay-at-a-glance

OECD report

largepants

WalterMitty wrote: »

Maybe if the huge numbers of public servants on 32 hour contracts did a full weeks work(39 excluding breaks) a lot of the problems in the country could be eased.

So huge numbers of public servants are on 32 hour contracts? Nothing like a bit of sensationalism. Walter Mitty indeed.

blorg

Irish PS management is highly overpaid relative to the EU, but non-managerial roles are actually relatively underpaid.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2011/1111/public-business.html

According to femur61's link PS hours worked are almost the shortest in Europe, with only Portugal lower.

Public sector numbers are not high in European terms.

uncle_sam_ie

Good luck trying to find skilled labor that will work for free.

donalg1

But sure what is stopping you from going and buying the necessary equipment and materials and driving around filling in potholes or you could at least do your own road, maybe you should lead by example and more will follow, and sure if it works every job in the country could be done on a voluntary basis then everything would be rosy

seamus

donalg1 wrote: »

But sure what is stopping you from going and buying the necessary equipment and materials and driving around filling in potholes or you could at least do your own road, maybe you should lead by example and more will follow, and sure if it works every job in the country could be done on a voluntary basis then everything would be rosy

Two things really.

One is liability. If you try to repair something and make a pig's ear of it, the council and/or you could be held liable if any injuries or damages arise out of that repair.

The second is permission. You don't have the right to interfere with state land. If you continually went around fixing things, the local council will take you to court (after they've undone whatever you have).

I have heard of plenty of instances where people have paid a private contractor good money to lay a fresh surface on the road outside their houses, only for the council to come along and scrape it up, leaving the crappy old surface there.

donalg1

seamus wrote: »

Two things really.

One is liability. If you try to repair something and make a pig's ear of it, the council and/or you could be held liable if any injuries or damages arise out of that repair.

The second is permission. You don't have the right to interfere with state land. If you continually went around fixing things, the local council will take you to court (after they've undone whatever you have).

I have heard of plenty of instances where people have paid a private contractor good money to lay a fresh surface on the road outside their houses, only for the council to come along and scrape it up, leaving the crappy old surface there.

But sure apparantly the Council's dont do anything and are a useless bunch of idiots so firstly they wont know you have repaired something and definitely wont know you have made a pigs ear of it.

And secondly because they wont know you have done it they wont realise you should have had permission to do it so wont take you to court because they are PS workers and are therefore too useless to enforce laws.

And besides the whole point of the thread is private sector workers and the unemployed are way better workers than the PS so they should be well capable of repairing a few potholes to a tremendous standard way above the PS standard and will never make a pigs ear of anything

krissovo

Where I live this is the process for repairing a pot hole:

1)Fat man drives up in lorry with big tube hanging over the front
2)Fat man lights a fag and roughly aims tube over pothole
3)Fat man pushes button and some gravel/tar mix shoots out end
4)Gravel mix fills up hole (including rainwater)
5)Fat man flicks fag out of window and drives to next pot hole

They do not even get out the cab of the lorry! They do no preparation of the hole!

Yes I think I could that!

BTW - I know how to fix a pot hole properly!

uncle_sam_ie

donalg1 wrote: »

And besides the whole point of the thread is private sector workers and the unemployed are way better workers than the PS

Do you include Doctors and Nurses in that statement?

maddragon

Oh Ireland, Ireland; where the people know the cost of everything and the value of nothing.

yobr

WalterMitty wrote: »

A 2004 eurostat survey showed :Ireland's average public sector pay of €45,643 is the highest in the range of six advanced EU countries and compares with Britain at €35,189 and Germany €33,905. Irish public sector pay is 30% higher than Britain's.

So this link does not support the original point made by Webgeek that the Irish public sector is the best paid in the world

femur61 wrote: »

http://www.iiea.com/blogosphere/public-sector-pay-at-a-glance OECD report

Neither does this link.

blorg wrote: »

Irish PS management is highly overpaid relative to the EU, but non-managerial roles are actually relatively underpaid.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2011/1111/public-business.html

According to femur61's link PS hours worked are almost the shortest in Europe, with only Portugal lower.

Public sector numbers are not high in European terms.

Exactly the point the PS bashers always miss...

uncle_sam_ie wrote: »

Good luck trying to find skilled labor that will work for free.

Exactly the point that a lot of people on this thread miss. As an old employer of mine used to say "he who works for nothing will never be idle".

uriah

liammur wrote: »

Ah no, I'm talking about completely replacing the existing workers, not merely a placement scheme, a bit like replacing the PS workers. We'd get the economy moving again and make it competitive.

Would they all be as intelligent as you?

You should make a start....set up a (free, of course) employment agency for all those doctors/nurses/teachers/radiographers/engineers who are out there waiting to move into those newly vacated jobs for a fraction of the pay.

uriah

krissovo wrote: »

Where I live this is the process for repairing a pot hole:

1)Fat man drives up in lorry with big tube hanging over the front
2)Fat man lights a fag and roughly aims tube over pothole
3)Fat man pushes button and some gravel/tar mix shoots out end
4)Gravel mix fills up hole (including rainwater)
5)Fat man flicks fag out of window and drives to next pot hole

They do not even get out the cab of the lorry! They do no preparation of the hole!

Yes I think I could that!

BTW - I know how to fix a pot hole properly!

You forgot to mention

6) Idle idiot with nothing to to but watch others work and post on internet forum

donalg1

uncle_sam_ie wrote: »

Do you include Doctors and Nurses in that statement?

Think you missed the sarcasm of my post

sellerbarry

It makes me laugh when i see the waterworks (workers?) parked outside superquinn at 9am and take 20 mins to buy stuff for their lunch. At this stage they have been in since 8am and haven't touched a shovel. Then they proceed to their job and by the time they get there it's time for 10am break. Jasus! What a shower of lazy good for nothins( was going to use another word but don't need another ban). Hope the lot of em are privatised sooner rather than later.

donalg1

sellerbarry wrote: »

It makes me laugh when i see the waterworks (workers?) parked outside superquinn at 9am and take 20 mins to buy stuff for their lunch. At this stage they have been in since 8am and haven't touched a shovel. Then they proceed to their job and by the time they get there it's time for 10am break. Jasus! What a shower of lazy good for nothins( was going to use another word but don't need another ban). Hope the lot of em are privatised sooner rather than later.

Makes me laugh when an electrician tells me he will be at my house at 10 o clock and still no sign of him at 3 turns up at four and pisses about for an hour or two then says he needs part so goes home for the evening and says he will finish it tomorrow despite telling me it would only take a half a day at the most to do when he quoted for the job!!

Makes me laugh when you order Sky and they tell you its gonna take them 6 weeks to get to you, then dont bother turning up on the day they are supposed to even though you take the day off work and sit around waiting for them.

Makes me laugh when the girl in the O2 shop tells me I must have imagined seeing an offer on their website and then telling me over the phone to call in and get the same offer in store and when i call into the shop she then tells me the online offers cant be availed of in stores at certain times, and that she has never even heard of such an offer and when I told her its on the O2 website if she wants to look it up she tells me she doesnt have access to the O2 website from the PC in the shop, that makes me laugh. Makes me laugh more when people say all PS workers are useless and private sector workers are amazing. LMFAO

anymore

ianuss wrote: »

Great idea in theory but there's the issue of liability, negligence and insurance for a start.

A lot of these # problems are easily overcome. I have quietly done a little tidying up of letter in my area and close by i regularily see a woman picking litter from the paths.

WalterMitty

yobr wrote: »

So this link does not support the original point made by Webgeek that the Irish public sector is the best paid in the world




Neither does this link.



Exactly the point the PS bashers always miss...



Exactly the point that a lot of people on this thread miss. As an old employer of mine used to say "he who works for nothing will never be idle".

There isnt readily available data on average public sector salaries for the entire world. It would be worthwhile if someone could prepare one but it would take weeks and I wont be doing it. So i had to use limited data available to make assumptions and infer that Irish public sector average pay is highest in world.
Now if you can find me one similar sized or larger country with an average public sector pay level higher than the Irish level of 48,000 then please post and i will accept that the public sector average pay levels are not the absolute highest but they would still be amongst the few highest in world. The trade unions know this and thats why you never hear of them disputing the fact that Irish public sector worker are highest or close to highest paid in world.
Now why should Irish public sector workers be so much better renumerated compared to rest world and the Irish private sector when their country is in receivership and close to default? Are they more entitled? Are they superior to the private workers that generate the wealth to pay them?
I agree with your point that in number terms we dont have a massive % of population working in public service but that is a completely seperate thing to the average pay rate. The range of public services provided by Irish state is quite limited too so you would expect less to be employed in public sector than other countries because people employed by state in other countries are employed by private sector in Ireland(GPs,Physios,psychotherapists,childcare workers,psychologists,contract cleaners,sanitation workers etc) also we have no major army/navy/airforce which employ significantly more to public sector numbers and there are tens of thousands more emplyed in semi states which dont show up as public sector employees.
In other countries services are also more available than here as the greater % of public employees (albeit at a lower pay rate) are able to provide services in more locations for greater period of time. In ireland you can wait years for a psychologist assessment , not so in most of Europe where psychologists are paid a lot less.
Also that report you refer to refers to civil service only not all public sector.
As i said , post a credibl link to show the average public sectorpay of any country above 48,000 and i will agree Ireland's public servants are not the world's absolute highest.

ianuss

anymore wrote: »

A lot of these # problems are easily overcome. I have quietly done a little tidying up of letter in my area and close by i regularily see a woman picking litter from the paths.

I'm not sure they are. Tidying up, and filling in potholes are a million miles apart tbf. No one is going to sue you for picking up some rubbish. But if somebody destroys the undercarriage of their car due to your filling in of a pothole, they'll definitely be looking for some compensation.

galway2007

n97 mini wrote: »

While it's an kind of idiotic idea...

We're borrowing heavily to pay these wages. These loans have to be paid back, with interest.

Yes and those wages keep you in a job
Take the 16 billion out of the economy and see what is left in the private sector job market

galway2007

krissovo wrote: »

Where I live this is the process for repairing a pot hole:

1)Fat man drives up in lorry with big tube hanging over the front
2)Fat man lights a fag and roughly aims tube over pothole
3)Fat man pushes button and some gravel/tar mix shoots out end
4)Gravel mix fills up hole (including rainwater)
5)Fat man flicks fag out of window and drives to next pot hole

They do not even get out the cab of the lorry! They do no preparation of the hole!

Yes I think I could that!

BTW - I know how to fix a pot hole properly!

I take it you have a HGV license????????????
More like an Idiot license

anymore

seamus wrote: »

Two things really.

One is liability. If you try to repair something and make a pig's ear of it, the council and/or you could be held liable if any injuries or damages arise out of that repair.

The second is permission. You don't have the right to interfere with state land. If you continually went around fixing things, the local council will take you to court (after they've undone whatever you have).

I have heard of plenty of instances where people have paid a private contractor good money to lay a fresh surface on the road outside their houses, only for the council to come along and scrape it up, leaving the crappy old surface there.

And yet politicans want to make householders liable for clearing ice and snow on the public paths outside thier houses !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Seamus you must certainly be aware of this, yes ?
As for permsiion, it is our LAND !!!!!!!!!!!!!

anymore

krissovo wrote: »

Where I live this is the process for repairing a pot hole:

1)Fat man drives up in lorry with big tube hanging over the front
2)Fat man lights a fag and roughly aims tube over pothole
3)Fat man pushes button and some gravel/tar mix shoots out end
4)Gravel mix fills up hole (including rainwater)
5)Fat man flicks fag out of window and drives to next pot hole

They do not even get out the cab of the lorry! They do no preparation of the hole!

Yes I think I could that!

BTW - I know how to fix a pot hole properly!

Your Local Authority is clearly very efficient. In County Cork, nothing is done without two people being present - even watering the road side flower troughs requires two people = I am not kidding !

WalterMitty

donalg1 wrote: »

Makes me laugh when an electrician tells me he will be at my house at 10 o clock and still no sign of him at 3 turns up at four and pisses about for an hour or two then says he needs part so goes home for the evening and says he will finish it tomorrow despite telling me it would only take a half a day at the most to do when he quoted for the job!!

Makes me laugh when you order Sky and they tell you its gonna take them 6 weeks to get to you, then dont bother turning up on the day they are supposed to even though you take the day off work and sit around waiting for them.

Makes me laugh when the girl in the O2 shop tells me I must have imagined seeing an offer on their website and then telling me over the phone to call in and get the same offer in store and when i call into the shop she then tells me the online offers cant be availed of in stores at certain times, and that she has never even heard of such an offer and when I told her its on the O2 website if she wants to look it up she tells me she doesnt have access to the O2 website from the PC in the shop, that makes me laugh. Makes me laugh more when people say all PS workers are useless and private sector workers are amazing. LMFAO

If a company is not providing a good service you can go to another provider. If i get crap public services i cant go elsewhere. Thats what drives improvment in private sector and stagnation and status quo in public service. All my best customer/cliet experiences have occured in private sector and worst in public sector. Why would a clerical officer go the extra mile when they can just do any work in their overtime ,still get increments unless they killed someone and still do barely a 30 hour basic week.

The_Thing

If the build quality of Priory Hall is anything to go by - where private-sector trades people were being paid to do their job - I'd hate to see what the quality of the work done by volunteers would be like.

ianuss

The_Thing wrote: »

If the build quality of Priory Hall is anything to go by - where private-sector trades people were being paid to do their job - I'd hate to see what the quality of the work done by volunteers would be like.

That's a very good point. Isn't public sector housing widely acknowledged to be of a far better build quality than your average private sector one? Open to correction on that but it's one of those things I've heard loads of times.....

relax carry on

Just wondering what does everyone want the public sector to actually do? What services do you want the state to provide?
Shall we privatize councils? Schools? Hospitals? The Guards? Revenue? Welfare? If we privatize everything will all our problems disappear?
Just throwing it out there.

Lumbo

relax carry on wrote: »

Just wondering what does everyone want the public sector to actually do? What services do you want the state to provide?
Shall we privatize councils? Schools? Hospitals? The Guards? Revenue? Welfare? If we privatize everything will all our problems disappear?
Just throwing it out there.

Everything is privatized. You ring the Fire Brigade. The operator asks you would you like to pay by Visa or Mastercard.

Some people on here actually dream of situations like this becoming a reality.