2012 - Death of the CD/Physical release?

Bonzo-Reborn

So, I'm just interested to know how this will affect members of boards.

1) As Musicians
2) As Consumers
3) Any other way you believe

To think that Sony recently bought EMI which means they hold almost half of the worlds music [publishing etc] is sickening. They have also indicated that things may well be digitalising their artists in the new year making the compact disk irrelevant.

Is 2011 the last year where we can buy a CD of a well known band?

Is this our generations 'death of vinyl' or 'death of cassette' and will it maybe be revived in 20 years time?

I'd love to hear what you guys think about this?

Daftendirekt

I think it's been inevitable for quite some time now, though I can't say I entirely welcome it.

It really doesn't make a lot of sense to continue releasing music on a physical medium when much of the cost of distribution could simply be eliminated by exclusively releasing digitally. Add to that the fact that virtually everyone has an MP3 player or iPod of some sort and it's kind of a no-brainer.

It's sort of a mixed blessing, though. On the one hand, it'll be nice not having dozens or even hundreds of CD's gathering dust on your shelf. On the other, I'll miss buying the physical product, complete with album artwork and liner notes and whatnot, but such is life, I suppose!

I also think the death of the album is going to be a natural consequence of moving to exclusively digital releases, though I'd wager that this won't happen for a while yet. (I'm thinking some progressive/experimental artists might be more resistant to a singles-based model.)

My main concern with this change, is that it now makes MP3/AAC the standard release format. I get the impression lots of people aren't too bothered by the move to a more lo-fi format, but it's something that I'm really not happy about. I'd feel a lot better if we were looking at FLAC or another lossless format as our new digital medium, but it doesn't seem to have taken off in a big enough way.

McFry

The decline of physical media disappoints me. I understand why it's happening but I'll miss cover art. There's just something hollow about buying a digital download of an album and getting nothing to hold on to. I'm sure many feel the same way. I would also like to echo my fellow Daft Punk fan's sentiments outlined above. Moving from mp3s to FLAC files would be a nice progression.

Custardpi

Interestingly enough vinyl seems to have seen a resurgence in the past few years, with many bands releasing albums as vinyl with a download code enclosed. In terms of cover art & collectability vinyl will always trump cds, especially those where much effort & creativity has gone into the design of the cover (sadly a dying trend in the age of disposable music).

It'll be interesting to see which way the digital medium goes in the future. I reckon quality bands (ie: those that actually care about how their releases sound) would want their work available in the best format possible & given the cheapness of hard drive storage these days there's no reason for that not to be FLAC, accompanied by vinyl for those who want a physical medium. Trashy, one hit wonders & xfactor type music will probably go completely mp3/aac with no physical release, it has to a large extent already.

The problem however is the dominance of Itunes in the market, which may, against all logic mean that crappy 128kbps aacs become the standard, meaning that we'll have taken a step backwards from the CD, which despite it's inadequacies in terms of compressing cover art, could still produce bloody good sound, with less hassle involved than with vinyl. If that's the way things go then we'll truly have cause to mourn the CD but I think it's too early to predict that yet.

Technocentral

I feel no emotional attachment at all to downloads or my CD's but I love my vinyl, as has been said a lot of new and older bands are releasing their stuff on vinyl, if its mastered properly and not horribly compressed its the best way to listen to music as well as having those big canvases for the artwork. Most recently I've bought Arcade Fire's "The Suburbs", The Manics's, best of "Forever Delayed", 3 New Order 12"s, a really nice green vinyl 7" of Joy Division's Atmosphere (b side Decades) which plays at 33rpm and Computer World by Kraftwerk. I somehow appreciate music more and feel ownership of it when listening on vinyl, partly its an age thing, I grew up in the 80's and bought loads of singles and lps of my favorite indie and dance tunes, a big piece of plastic inside a big piece of artwork is what I'll always associate good music with.

Long live vinyl!

Sinfonia

FLAC/WAV and Vinyl. That's what I want.
I can live without CD and Cassette (and I think I still have some MiniDiscs too! :P )

Irish Guitarist

Maybe I'm old fashioned but I'd never pay to download music. Paying for something that I can't see and hold just seems like a waste of money to me. I don't own an iPod and have no intention of ever buying one.

If the amount of box sets on sale lately are anything to go by CDs still have some life left in them. Maybe record companies will stop releasing albums by newer artists on CD but older albums and box sets of unreleased material by older artists will be available for a while yet. The record companies will feel they have to have loads of bonus tracks, fancy packaging and CD booklets the size of a book. The days of a casual music fan buying a greatest hits album with a flimsy booklet are probably gone but anyone that really loves music will always appreciate being able to read liner notes, look at photographs and read details about who wrote and played on a track.

If the only way to obtain music was to pay to download it I'd never buy new music again.

karaokeman

I used to never download but I've kind of changed my ways by this stage.

I enjoyed owning physical copies of the album with artwork, linear notes etc. but at the same time it is a lot to be asking of the fans to own someone's entire discography and go to all of their shows.

I'll admit this, most of the albums I have are greatest hits and for most bands I own maybe 1 or so of their studio albums. Its mainly because my music taste is so broad and varied I tend to have a little bit of everything from Oasis to Shania Twain, and I also wouldn't have the money to buy many of their other records.

I've grown to be more a fan of gigs than collecting physical records. I don't know why I just feel a hell of a lot more supportive at a concert. Add that to the fact that most of my CD's get lost or cases are broken.

I guess I will miss the excitement of waiting for an album to come out and heading straight to HMV for it. Then again many, many people wouldn't have the money to keep buying albums so I think its good for them that they can download for free.

Do we even know that CD's/physical releases will be dead by 2012?

Daftendirekt

karaokeman wrote: »

Do we even know that CD's/physical releases will be dead by 2012?

A (very) quick Google shows that it's being discussed quite a bit on various forums. This article seems to be the source of it, though I'm not sure how authoritative it is.

You read it well. The major labels plan to abandon the CD-format by the end of 2012 (or even earlier) and replace it with download/stream only releases via iTunes and related music services. The only CD-formats that will be left over will be the limited edition ones, which will of course not be available for every artist. The distribution model for these remaining CD releases would be primarily Amazon which is already the biggest CD retailer worldwide anyhow.

3 weeks ago we heard it for the first time and since then we have tried getting some feedback from EMI, Universal and Sony. All declined to comment.

The news doesn't come as a surprise to those who have been working in the business. In a piece that was published in a q&a with the Alfa Matrix people back in June 2011 in the 1st issue of "Matrix Revelations", our chief editor Bernard Van Isacker said the following when asked if a CD would still exist in 5 years: "Yes, but in a different format. Normal CDs will no longer be available because they don't offer enough value, limited editions on the other hand will remain available and in demand for quite a few more years. I for one buy only limited editions because of the added value they offer: a nice design, extra bonus gadgets, etc. The album as we know it now however will be dead within 5 years, if it isn't even sooner. I predict that downloads will have replaced the CD album within the next 2 years. I don't see that as something negative, it just has run its course, let's leave the space to limited editions (including vinyl runs for bigger acts) and downloads instead."

It's a move that makes completely sense. CD's cost money, even when they don't sell because there is stock storage to be paid; a label also pays money to distributors when CDs get returned to the labels when not sold and so on. In short, abandoning the CD-format will make it possible to just focus on the release and the marketing of it and no longer focus on the distribution (since aggregators will do the work as far as dispatching the releases to services worldwide) and - expensive - stock maintenance. In the long run it will most surely mean the end for many music shops worldwide that only stock and sell CD releases. In the UK for instance HMV has problems paying the labels already and more will follow. It makes the distribution of CDs no longer worth it.

Also Amazon will benefit from this as it will surely become the one and only player when it comes to distribution of the remaining CD productions from labels. Packaged next to regular album downloads via its own Amazon MP3 service it will offer a complimentary service.

The next monument to fall? That will be printed magazines as people will want to consume their information online where they also read most of the news.

What are your feelings? is it a move that you like or not?

Update: We were approached by several people working with major labels, who indeed re-confirm that plans do exist to give up the CD. We keep on trying to get an official confirmation, but it seems that the matter is very controversial, especially after Side-Line brought out the story.

The Scientician

While I can imagine CD may well one day stop being a major medium I think it's safe to say that 2012 is not going to be when the majors drop CDs. In 2010 for example almost 100,000,000 CDs were sold in the UK alone, digital sales only comprised about 20 million. Although CD sales are contracting while digital is on the rise CD is still the major cashcow for record labels in many countries and will continue to be so well beyond 2012 in my opinion.

GoldenTickets

Irish Guitarist wrote: »

If the only way to obtain music was to pay to download it I'd never buy new music again.

Same here.

SilverScreen

I have yet to stumble across a reliable source to indicate that the physical release will die in 2012. The CD might be on the decline but vinyl sales are rising so the physical release certainly won't die a death until some time yet. There will always be a demand for physical copies of music by those who want superior sound quality and the physical product itself. If CDs do die out it will be pretty much mp3 or vinyl if you want the physical product.

I still buy CDs. I haven't bought too many new CDs this year but I am taking full advantage of people getting rid of their CDs by getting as much cheap used stuff as I can I've bought more new vinyl this year than new CDs and to be honest I'd rather do have them instead. Downloading however is still my main source of music because a lot of the music I want to listen to I'd have to go to Dublin or Galway to find it on CD or vinyl and I can't exactly afford to do that regularly, so downloading it is.

mike65

Its a depressing thought all right, it probably signals the eventual death of the "hi fi" as a medium, as the music becomes more ephemeral and less album like in its construction (shuffle feature - **** off!) young people are less likely to feel the need to invest in much beyond their headphones as they get into their twenties.

Technocentral

mike65 wrote: »

Its a depressing thought all right, it probably signals the eventual death of the "hi fi" as a medium, as the music becomes more ephemeral and less album like in its construction (shuffle feature - **** off!) young people are less likely to feel the need to invest in much beyond their headphones as they get into their twenties.

Your right, also sound quality is becoming a thing of the past too, most people listen to compressed mp3's on their computer with average tinny speakers (or no external speakers at all), for me a lot of great music (I love electronic music) has bass, mid range and top end that you can't appreciate on cheap speakers.

SilverScreen

The death of the hi-fi is a depressing prospect alright. Even if you take a look through the Argos catalogue right now or some electrical retailer's booklet you will see all these tiny-looking mp3 docking stations that probably sound like rubbish and fewer and fewer proper hi-fi systems. People with only a casual interest in music seem to be settling for really low quality these days and because of this the manufacturers seem to think selling any old rubbish will do as long as it looks snazzy.

rcaz

Is a lot of this not on the user's end? If someone's not that interested in music then they won't put a lot of money into their equipment, the music they listen to, they won't care too much about full albums... But then if someone is really into their stuff, they'll spend as much as they can afford to on equipment, they'll buy physical copies of full albums, they'll collect entire discographies of their favourite artists...

Yeah a lot of mainstream popular music is going fully digital and singles are becoming the most important, but since when have the hardcores ever been interested in only mainstream pop music?

And the digital thing doesn't bother me - that's the way the whole world is going, and if you're a music fan and the music's going digital, you can get a good audio interface and plug that into your stereo's amplifier, or get some studio monitor speakers or something - Hi-er Fi than most home stereos. As for 128k mp3 vs 320k mp3 vs FLAC, etc, I wonder how many people can really tell the difference? The notes are still there - I don't mind listening to a reasonable quality file, once it's deadly music.

Bonzo-Reborn

Thanks for the insight guys...

I read an article this morning condemning the rumours and statements have been made that it's a ridiculous theory.

It's interesting to debate all the same.

SilverScreen

El Pr0n wrote: »

And the digital thing doesn't bother me - that's the way the whole world is going, and if you're a music fan and the music's going digital, you can get a good audio interface and plug that into your stereo's amplifier, or get some studio monitor speakers or something - Hi-er Fi than most home stereos. As for 128k mp3 vs 320k mp3 vs FLAC, etc, I wonder how many people can really tell the difference? The notes are still there - I don't mind listening to a reasonable quality file, once it's deadly music.

I don't mind digital at all and it certainly has plenty of benefits, and connecting my mp3 player to my stereo amplifier is how I listen to a lot of music. But still I'm sad to see physical sales decline so much in the past few years. I know it's the music that counts but I can certainly tell the difference between 128kbps and 320kbps but telling the difference between 320kbps and FLAC is more difficult, at least to my ears anyway. 320kbps has a noticeably richer, fuller and clearer sound with clearer bass and treble frequencies. With 128k the notes are still there but some of the frequencies aren't.

Custardpi

I'd listen to a fair amount of mp3s/wmas connected via a wireless usb transmitter to my Nad amp & I'd agree that it sounds pretty good, most of my music is ripped at a decent bit rate. I think where you'll hear the difference between say a 128kbps track & one at 320kbps or to a greater extent with a CD or FLAC with a decent DAC is with music which has been well mastered & has a lot of subtle detail in it. Music which has fallen victim, as a lot of stuff has, to "the loudness war" will have a lot of unnatural artificial boosting of the high & low frequencies in order to make it stand out in a club or at low bitrates, so that the subtleties of the music, if there are any are lost. If this is the case then listening to a lossless format won't really give a significantly better result, since although it can reveal more than a low bitrate mp3, there's very little more to reveal.

I'd listen to a fair amount of jazz & some classical music & because there's often very quiet passages in those pieces, usually with string instruments such as a double bass or violin you tend to lose a lot of the details (these parts can often just sound blank) if you listen to a lossy format, unless you turn the volume up significantly, which causes it's own problems. Listening to this type of music (provided the recording process has been to a decent standard) on CD & vinyl is far more realistic than through mp3s & a higher rate mp3 is far better sounding than a lower bitrate one because of the higher amount of information you're hearing.

With a lot of mainstream music however there's really not much advantage to a more revealing format. There's really not much more detail you can wring out of a badly mastered track consisting of computer generated notes, artificial drumbeats & a vocal that's been auto-tuned to within an inch of its life. For that reason we're probably going to see the development of a 2 tier market with the lowest common denominator stuff purely through mp3/aac & a much smaller (though hopefully vibrant) market of higher rate mp3s/flac together with vinyl & for a certain period beyond 2012 CDs.

Technocentral

Custardpi wrote: »

I'd listen to a fair amount of mp3s/wmas connected via a wireless usb transmitter to my Nad amp & I'd agree that it sounds pretty good, most of my music is ripped at a decent bit rate. I think where you'll hear the difference between say a 128kbps track & one at 320kbps or to a greater extent with a CD or FLAC with a decent DAC is with music which has been well mastered & has a lot of subtle detail in it. Music which has fallen victim, as a lot of stuff has, to "the loudness war" will have a lot of unnatural artificial boosting of the high & low frequencies in order to make it stand out in a club or at low bitrates, so that the subtleties of the music, if there are any are lost. If this is the case then listening to a lossless format won't really give a significantly better result, since although it can reveal more than a low bitrate mp3, there's very little more to reveal.

I'd listen to a fair amount of jazz & some classical music & because there's often very quiet passages in those pieces, usually with string instruments such as a double bass or violin you tend to lose a lot of the details (these parts can often just sound blank) if you listen to a lossy format, unless you turn the volume up significantly, which causes it's own problems. Listening to this type of music (provided the recording process has been to a decent standard) on CD & vinyl is far more realistic than through mp3s & a higher rate mp3 is far better sounding than a lower bitrate one because of the higher amount of information you're hearing.

With a lot of mainstream music however there's really not much advantage to a more revealing format. There's really not much more detail you can wring out of a badly mastered track consisting of computer generated notes, artificial drumbeats & a vocal that's been auto-tuned to within an inch of its life. For that reason we're probably going to see the development of a 2 tier market with the lowest common denominator stuff purely through mp3/aac & a much smaller (though hopefully vibrant) market of higher rate mp3s/flac together with vinyl & for a certain period beyond 2012 CDs.

Some of the most sublime and exciting music ever has used these, (Kraftwerk, Air, Ulrich Schnauss, Aphex Twin, Eno, New Order etc) there are only two types of music good and bad, the use of "traditional instruments" is the not the only way that great music is produced.

Scubadevils

The music industry has moved very much towards digital but there is absolutely a market still out there for vinyl and CD. Anyway, there is no one decision maker that decides to pull the plug for the entire industry, presumably some labels will take the step to no longer release physical formats and has been said they will most likely be more mainstream releases.

Also, sales of better quality music systems are actually increasing along with higher-end headphones - I think people are finally waking up to the fact that heavily compressed music played on some shtty ipod headphones does their ears no justice! I see it with my own friends and family and how they listen to music - when I demonstrate how much better music can sound typically the reaction is they need a better method for listening to music... I think people basically get used to hearing sound badly and only when they hear how it can sound do they realize what they've been missing - its like when I upgrade to new headphone or speakers, I'm always amazed at how much it improves where I thought it was already great sound quality... my life is pretty much a quest for better sounding music :pac: Also, the increase in audio playback hardware be it higher-end iPod docking systems or full audio systems is very visible when you visit various electrical retailers - the sections for these product categories had dropped off significantly but there is a very obvious growth now visible again. Headphones are also one of the biggest selling categories within consumer electronics and again growth is quite obvious in more expensive headphones.

I played the same track to my brother a few months ago first in MP3 format (most likely 320kbps), then CD and finally vinyl - he was literally blown away by the difference in sound quality for each format, the most notable being vinyl versus both CD and MP3 but there was also an obvious difference to CD versus MP3 - that said it's hard to compare in terms of the hardware audio sources etc as the stylus on the turntable alone cost more than the MP3 player! So I don't know how fair a comparison will be when you play 3 formats from different hardware sources through the same amp and speakers, in saying that there is no other way I can think of to compare them...

I encode all CDs that I buy pretty much straight away so I can listen on the move on my MP3 player, always rip in FLAC and I have definitely noticed differences versus 320 rips - I wouldn't insult my ears anymore with anything less than 320 anyway! Downside of course to FLAC is the amount more space taken up but it's a price you pay for the better quality. But when at home or in the car I will mostly listen to CD or vinyl... obviously not vinyl in the car as that would be complicated :pac:

One thing I'd love to see more of is vinyl releases that come with either the CD included or a lossless download option, some labels are offering this but it would be really great to see it become a standard. Warp I think were one of the first to do it and any albums ordered through the www.bleep.com shop automatically include a download option which is nice as you can listen right away and still have the pleasure of the CD or vinyl arriving to the door a few days later... best of both worlds.

Custardpi

Technocentral wrote: »

Some of the most sublime and exciting music ever has used these, (Kraftwerk, Air, Ulrich Schnauss, Aphex Twin, Eno, New Order etc) there are only two types of music good and bad, the use of "traditional instruments" is the not the only way that great music is produced.

Oh absolutely, I'd agree with that & listen to a certain amount of electronica myself. Got to see Kraftwerk in concert in France a few years ago & they were fantastic. However there is a lot of that kind of stuff that leaves me cold, mainly thinking of cheesy pop music stuff rather than the likes of Eno & Air. My main point was more to do with the medium rather than the message - ie that with electronic music I don't personally hear as great a difference between say a very lossy mp3 & a lossless format (cd/vinyl/flac) as I would when listening to more traditional styles of music, ceteris paribus of course.

mike65

Acoustic music esp orchestral strings is much more prone to reduced quality when converted to mp3/aac.

smokedeels

If the mainstream goes digital, will shops be able to sustain themselves selling only indie music or will we be buying the psychical medium at gigs/online only?

SilverScreen

smokedeels wrote: »

If the mainstream goes digital, will shops be able to sustain themselves selling only indie music or will we be buying the psychical medium at gigs/online only?

Some shops will I say, but only those that specialise in a lot of non-mainstream music anyway like indie/metal/electronic etc and sell a lot of vinyl.

The likes of HMV and Golden Discs are pretty much screwed unless they move more towards DVDs and games. Golden Discs actually opened up a new store here in Athlone last week believe it or not! A very baffling move considering the decline of the CD but they seem to be stocking more DVDs than CDs so they might have some chance of sustaining themselves for a while.

Custardpi

Zero1986 wrote: »

Some shops will I say, but only those that specialise in a lot of non-mainstream music anyway like indie/metal/electronic etc and sell a lot of vinyl.

The likes of HMV and Golden Discs are pretty much screwed unless they move more towards DVDs and games. Golden Discs actually opened up a new store here in Athlone last week believe it or not! A very baffling move considering the decline of the CD but they seem to be stocking more DVDs than CDs so they might have some chance of sustaining themselves for a while.

Was in HMV on Grafton st earlier today & that's pretty much what they're doing. The ground floor is almost entirely taken up with games, big seller dvds (Mad Men boxsets, etc) & electronics (dre beats headphones, ipod docks, etc). There's a small, well considered (from a marketing perspective) selection of cds on offer (One Direction & Mary Byrne were particularly prevalent) but otherwise no music.

If you want music you're banished to the basement, which has a reasonably good, easy to navigate selection if you're looking for mainstream pop & rock, easy listening, etc.

Interesting to contrast that with Tower Records on Wicklow St, which has much more of a traditional record store feel to it, not least because they stock a fair bit of vinyl. In the music section, which takes up pretty much all of the ground (& if you're into jazz & classical cds about 30% of the otherwise dvd occupied upper) floor, there's much more of a sense that you could discover unexpected gems there, it seems to be better laid out for flicking through, rather than being purely built around a series of commercial "money shots" - prominent displays of chart topper & traditional best seller items.

As the march of the digital revolution continues I have no doubt that retailers such as hmv (who I understand have had pretty crap profit figures the past few years) will continue to progessively do away with more & more of their music offering as so much of the music industry moves towards the sale of a limited range of chart topping downloads. How much space there'll be left for those who go the opposite route, catering for those outmoded souls who like to explore a wide selection of cds & vinyl & delight in the inattendues which materialise from aimless rummaging in the punk/soul/country sections with no firm goal in mind is anyone's guess. That there's a widening divide between the two types of offering in the music market has been evident for some time.

lordgoat

smokedeels wrote: »

If the mainstream goes digital, will shops be able to sustain themselves selling only indie music or will we be buying the psychical medium at gigs/online only?

I think Dublin is crying out for a Vinyl only record shop. Every other city i've been too has plenty of record shops, but one large shop that caters for second hand and new stock with multiple genres would do well i think.

Montreal - Aux 33 tours.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/max-h/5503722746/

NY - Other music.

London - Reckless or any other one on Berwick Street.

Also i like the combination of coffee shop/cafe and Record store.

SilverScreen

The Secret Book & Record Store has a serious collection of vinyl as well as CDs. I was in there for the first time on Thursday and I was very impressed with the vinyl selection. It might not be all vinyl but it's the next best thing, there's always going be some demand for CDs as well.

Technocentral

Zero1986 wrote: »

The Secret Book & Record Store has a serious collection of vinyl as well as CDs. I was in there for the first time on Thursday and I was very impressed with the vinyl selection. It might not be all vinyl but it's the next best thing, there's always going be some demand for CDs as well.

Its too expensive though.

10000maniacs

I predict that the only physical media that will be manufactured beyond 2015 will be audiophile de-luxe editions, SACDs, gold CDs and box sets. These box sets won't have standard CDs in them. Dublins HMV and Tower will be gone, because their current stock is worthless. Anything on their shelves can be purchased for less than €3.00 on Amazon.

Scubadevils

10000maniacs wrote: »

I predict that the only physical media that will be manufactured beyond 2015 will be audiophile de-luxe editions, SACDs, gold CDs and box sets. These box sets won't have standard CDs in them. Dublins HMV and Tower will be gone, because their current stock is worthless. Anything on their shelves can be purchased for less than €3.00 on Amazon.

That's the day that I emigrate or something! It genuinely strikes a real sense of horror into me to think that Tower Records would be no more...

Technocentral

10000maniacs wrote: »

I predict that the only physical media that will be manufactured beyond 2015 will be audiophile de-luxe editions, SACDs, gold CDs and box sets. These box sets won't have standard CDs in them. Dublins HMV and Tower will be gone, because their current stock is worthless. Anything on their shelves can be purchased for less than €3.00 on Amazon.

In HMV's case CD's haven't been their main business for ages, games, movies and electronics are, in Towers case you might be right, though they do a brisk trade in magazines, t shirts, headphones and electronics and vinyl so may hang on a few years beyond 2015.

Rigsby

Irish Guitarist wrote: »

Maybe I'm old fashioned but I'd never pay to download music. Paying for something that I can't see and hold just seems like a waste of money to me. I don't own an iPod and have no intention of ever buying one.

If the amount of box sets on sale lately are anything to go by CDs still have some life left in them. Maybe record companies will stop releasing albums by newer artists on CD but older albums and box sets of unreleased material by older artists will be available for a while yet. The record companies will feel they have to have loads of bonus tracks, fancy packaging and CD booklets the size of a book. The days of a casual music fan buying a greatest hits album with a flimsy booklet are probably gone but anyone that really loves music will always appreciate being able to read liner notes, look at photographs and read details about who wrote and played on a track.

If the only way to obtain music was to pay to download it I'd never buy new music again.

I agree with everything here. Thought I was the only one who felt this way.

Nolanger

I had lots of old vinyl that's yet to get a CD release.

viadah

Back when CDs became more abundant, I swore I'd never abandon cassettes. Evolution has a way of creeping up on you, leaving certain firmly held ideals to nostalgia, no matter how much we may want to be left to our Emotional Crystallisation.

Rigsby

viadah wrote: »

Back when CDs became more abundant, I swore I'd never abandon cassettes. Evolution has a way of creeping up on you, leaving certain firmly held ideals to nostalgia, no matter how much we may want to be left to our Emotional Crystallisation.

Very true, but evolution has not crept up on me yet. I'm not sure how long it is since ipods and being able to download became the norm. I have never used either, so at this stage I doubt if I ever will. IMO, nothing can beat having the actual CD or vinyl in your hand along with the cover art, liner notes, etc. This, quite apart from the superior sound quality. AFAIK, when you download an album, it does not give you the names of the musicians and the instruments they play (correct me if I'm wrong). I have discovered many a good band by taking note of the musicians on a given CD or vinyl that I particularly like, then keeping an eye out to see if they have brought out their own CD with their own band. Then I take a note of these musicians for future reference.

SilverScreen

Rigsby wrote: »

AFAIK, when you download an album, it does not give you the names of the musicians and the instruments they play (correct me if I'm wrong). I have discovered many a good band by taking note of the musicians on a given CD or vinyl that I particularly like, then keeping an eye out to see if they have brought out their own CD with their own band. Then I take a note of these musicians for future reference.

They very rarely do with mp3 files themselves but you can always go online and look up information on the artist yourself. Wikipedia and last.fm are good for this and with last.fm it also recommends similar artists. Also if you are using foobar2000 as your music player you can integrate last.fm information into it such as artist biography.

Technocentral

Nolanger wrote: »

I had lots of old vinyl that's yet to get a CD release.

If anything vinyl is on the up, if you go into Tower you'll notice that the size of their vinyl section has expanded in the last year or so and you'll see loads of younger people perusing and buying stuff not just 40 yr olds plus like me, I think that lots of music fans are realising that you can't feel any real love for a piece of invisible computer code or even in my case CD's.

Technocentral

viadah wrote: »

Back when CDs became more abundant, I swore I'd never abandon cassettes. Evolution has a way of creeping up on you, leaving certain firmly held ideals to nostalgia, no matter how much we may want to be left to our Emotional Crystallisation.

I completely disagree, just because something is new doesn't necessarily mean its better, in the case of Blu ray vs VHS it absolutely is, but in the case of mp3's and other audio downloads it isn't, its not necessarily nostalgia for instance I grew up with cassettes which were a pile of ****e so I don't miss them. I also have had ipods since they came first and love listening to stuff on the move so I'm not a luddite, but at home I'm primarily a vinyl listener.

lordgoat

i hate Cd's, always have. Those plastic jewel cases are just awful.

I download or stream pretty much everything, and for the real good stuff i'll buy it on vinyl. The only CD's i buy are small/new bands that put them out and don't have a vinyl option.

viadah

New doesn't have to be better or worse, the industry will dictate according to profit rather than preference.

Technocentral

viadah wrote: »

New doesn't have to be better or worse, the industry will dictate according to profit rather than preference.

Of course they will and since the vast majority of people don't care about quality they will concentrate on mp3s unfortunately.

rcaz

I'm surprised format matters so much to people. Good music is good music on plastic or magnets.

Rigsby

El Pr0n wrote: »

I'm surprised format matters so much to people. Good music is good music on plastic or magnets.

The music may be good but the reproduction is not, with MP3's etc. The very fact that it is good music, makes me want to hear it reproduced in the best possible way. Granted MP3's etc have the advantage of handiness, mobility, etc but for me, there is no comparison between the warm sound of vinyl against the cold clinical sound of MP3's.

That's why format matters to me at least..

Rigsby

lordgoat wrote: »

i hate Cd's, always have. Those plastic jewel cases are just awful.

I agree about the jewel cases. If this is your only reason for not liking CD's, you could always throw away the jewel case and get one of the various types of wallets. Makes for more storage space too.

rcaz

Rigsby wrote: »

The music may be good but the reproduction is not, with MP3's etc. The very fact that it is good music, makes me want to hear it reproduced in the best possible way. Granted MP3's etc have the advantage of handiness, mobility, etc but for me, there is no comparison between the warm sound of vinyl against the cold clinical sound of MP3's.

That's why format matters to me at least..

Get it on FLAC then!

And the warm/cold thing... Surely if the reproduction of vinyl is so good, then it shouldn't have any discernable 'sound'?

I like vinyl. It necessarily holds more information than any sort of quantised digital media. But you can get very high resolution digital media, where the quantisation is so infinitesimally small that humans can't notice anymore.

The real reason I like vinyl is because it looks impressive and it makes you do a bit of work before you can listen to the music, it imparts a kind of ritual on listening.

Oasis_Dublin

Hoepfully the CD doesn't die. I like having a collection of CDs on display. It's a bit of a statement really! Far better than only having downloaded versions on a pc or ipod.

I've never legally downloaded but it seems like a nothing experience. Where is the effort in it?!

rcaz

Oasis_Dublin wrote: »

Where is the effort in it?!

I think the idea is that it's really easy

Scubadevils

Just reading the below article in the Irish Times which certainly indicates the CD is here to stay for now... its a pity the reference points are the like of Susan Boyle etc but I suppose I can't expect it to be Autechre :pac:

The disc versus the download: is the CD really set to disappear?

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/weekend/2011/1217/1224309200893.html

You can download a huge music library without ever leaving home, but reports of the compact disc’s demise have been greatly exaggerated, writes BRIAN BOYD
IT WAS INEVITABLE. The report went like this. By the end of next year the major record labels are planning to have abandoned the CD and replaced it with downloads and streams through iTunes and similar music services. That’s because the CD is an anachronism from a pre-online era, according to the online music magazine Side-Line. CDs won’t disappear completely, the report continued, but the format will occupy as small a niche as vinyl does now. Its end not only makes economic sense, as downloads are cheaper than a physical product to provide, but is also in tune with how we consume music in these days of the smartphone and the tablet.

The story was widely blogged and tweeted, and almost everyone accepted that technological progress had lapped the physical CD and that we were going to live our cultural life happily ever after in the cloud.

There’s just one problem with the Side-Line story: it’s wrong. At first it looked solid: more and more people are opting for downloads, and CDs have the drawback, when they don’t sell as well as expected, of leaving retailers and record labels with return and storage costs. Downloads, on the other hand, incur no packaging, transport or storage costs and minimal distribution costs.

Music stores have been giving CDs less and less floor space in recent years, as video games are now the big sellers on the high street. More people are getting their music from iTunes and other digital services, and a whole generation of music consumers each own hundreds of albums but have never touched a CD.

After Side-Line published its story, people started to wonder about magazines, books and films. Surely, the argument ran, if it’s cheaper, easier and more convenient to acquire music, books and films online, we’re looking at the end not only of the CD but also of physical copies of books and films as well.

BUT WHAT IF THE END is not nigh for the CD? And what if that means our cultural future will not be entirely digital? Side-Line contacted three major labels – Universal, EMI and Sony – about its story, but all declined to comment. That probably fuelled a grassy-knoll theory that the majors had privately decided to kill off the CD next year but didn’t want the news to be reported too soon.

This week, at least, it was easy to find music-industry people who will talk about the future of the compact disc. The International Federation of the Phonographic Industry represents the interests of the recording industry worldwide, and CD sales are its lifeblood. “This story was first written back in October, and as far as I can see it hasn’t gained any credibility at all,” says Adrian Strain, the federation’s director of communications. “CDs still account for more than 60 per cent of industry revenues globally – more than 70 per cent in some markets, such as Germany – and there is still healthy consumer demand for the physical product. This is despite the rapid growth we have seen in the industry’s digital revenues.”

Gennaro Castlado, a spokesman for HMV, says, “I don’t think we should write off the CD just yet, as there are still a huge number of people who like the idea of owning and collecting music in physical formats, especially when they can make their own digital copies to get the best of both worlds. There will be a viable market for CDs for quite a while to come.”

Universal, the world’s biggest record label, says it has no intention of stopping production of CDs, pointing out that discs have made up 72 per cent of album sales in the UK and Ireland this year. If you look at last week’s Irish album chart, you will find that the number-one album, Christmas by Michael Bublé, sold 10,610 copies, of which only 654 were digital copies.

DOMINO RECORDS, HOME to artists such as Arctic Monkeys and King Creosote, is one of the biggest independent labels. Its director, John Dyer, says, “I’ve just been looking at the digital sales for Susan Boyle. They amount to 0.5 per cent of her total sales. The other 99.5 per cent is for CD sales. What you get with a lot of these stories about new technology killing off old formats is an incredibly American- and UK-centric view of the world. I know of certain European territories where the people are just culturally averse to using their credit card online to buy a download. Spain, to take just one example, doesn’t really go for the digital format.”

Susan Boyle illustrates where the story about the supposed demise of the CD was right. The people who buy her music tend not to use smartphones or iTunes. The same is broadly true for classical recordings and for country music and rock’n’roll, all of which appeal to an older, CD-buying audience.

With more contemporary genres, the gap between digital and physical sales is narrowing. Over the next few years, CDs will become less important in sales of pop, hip hop, urban, and r’n’b, as teenage music fans are already used to the one-click model of getting music.

Age alone isn’t the defining factor. Certain types of consumers demand the physical album, book or film. They enjoy the tactile sensation, the artwork and the way the objects are presented. People also like to look at and organise their collections, not just move them around a desktop with a mouse.

The CD-is-dead theory also assumes that people can afford high-speed broadband or that they can easily spend €500 on new devices. The drift to digital will continue because of its convenience and its generally more competitive prices. But the CD is safe for now. A large section of us, for whatever reason – economic, social or personal taste – will always prefer the tangible product.
Why CDs still rock

They look great Granted, they are made of unlovely plastic, but they are shiny and, even after three decades, look futuristic. And the music they hold is read by lasers. Which is still very Tomorrow’s World.

The sonic experience Yes, audiophile anoraks might think music should be listened to only on a beach at midnight surrounded by scented candles and only on vinyl. But, for the rest of us, the CD does the job just fine.

You can freeze them Apparently, if you put your CDs into a freezer for a few days the result is superior sound quality. It can also remove scratches.

The album sleeves Never as big as with vinyl, but with a CD at least there’s a bit of art to it. Downloads have made the album cover almost invisible.

Arts and crafts You can make sculptures from them. I once made a beautiful shiny fish from a Westlife CD.

viadah

http://www.side-line.com/news_comments.php?id=46980_0_2_0_C

Worth noting that this original article takes its quotes from an indie label, Side-Line is a largely underground 'zine, and the article came after, if I'm correct, the riots in England that burned out a lot of physical stock of CDs from indie labels. From an underground point of view then, it makes sense to dispense of the cost of production and storage of CDs, and would therefore be easier for such indie labels to talk about the shift from CD to digital. A note at the end of the article has been added, claiming they've received unofficial reports from major labels that the CD is planned to be phased out, but no official confirmation or even unofficial timescale, since the controversial article was printed. The only official comment is from an indie label, the rest of the article is largely conjecture. The question of printed media is also raised briefly.

In my opinion, the matter has most definitely been raised and will happen eventually. One gets the impression that Side-Line may have just jumped the gun a little since its strongest ties are to indie labels.

Oasis_Dublin

Scubadevils wrote: »

Just reading the below article in the Irish Times which certainly indicates the CD is here to stay for now... its a pity the reference points are the like of Susan Boyle etc but I suppose I can't expect it to be Autechre :pac:

That really sounds like an NME blog I read recently.