Retirement!Me arse!

muracan

With all the talk about the upcoming budget I have a very good way of saving money and creating jobs!!!
First of all can we define what "retirement "means?
Where I live, RETIRED civil servants are the busiest people in town at present!
For example.....
We have retired Gardai driving buses, teaching learner drivers, driving the
southdoc car,driving testing.
Retired teachers are doing grinds, landscape gardeners,subbing at school,
shop owners, fishermen , farmers etc.

Now, I don't have any problem with these retired people working but if they do they should be forced to forego their pensions.
There will be the claim that they are being heavily taxed but most are working in the cash area so I'm sure that they do not declare properly!!

Retirement should mean retirement,give up and get out , give someone else the chance to make a living.

antoobrien

muracan wrote: »

Retired teachers are doing grinds, landscape gardeners,subbing at school

This is one that I have a real problem with, especially with so many young qualified teachers that are (according to the unions) looking for work.

liammur

antoobrien wrote: »

This is one that I have a real problem with, especially with so many young qualified teachers that are (according to the unions) looking for work.

We don't need unions to tell us that. Any young person coming onto the jobs market will find it difficult, none more than teachers/nurses and others depending on the public sector recruitment. But yes, retired should mean retired.

The_Honeybadger

I know an ex Garda who is working full time and I believe it's wrong, It's blocking somebody else who no doubt needs the job much more than they do from working. Can't see much being done about this while you have ex ministers getting pensions while still sitting as TD's. They have no moral authority to do anything about this while this carry on is still the norm. Anybody who is retired and in receipt of a state pension should not be working IMO, if they want something to do there are countless voluntary organisations who would benefit enormously from the input of somebody with their skill and experience.

gerryo777

Any civil/public servant who retires should not have their pension paid until they reach 65.
See one in the dept. of education retiring at 53 with a lump sum after tax of over €210k and a pension of €110k per year.
Not giving her a pension until she's 65 would save the state about €1.5 million....

Tigger

bettyer than all the people who offer cash to try to get a discount and who tell me they can get better prices when the use the black market to buy labour.

irishh_bob

muracan wrote: »

With all the talk about the upcoming budget I have a very good way of saving money and creating jobs!!!
First of all can we define what "retirement "means?
Where I live, RETIRED civil servants are the busiest people in town at present!
For example.....
We have retired Gardai driving buses, teaching learner drivers, driving the
southdoc car,driving testing.
Retired teachers are doing grinds, landscape gardeners,subbing at school,
shop owners, fishermen , farmers etc.

Now, I don't have any problem with these retired people working but if they do they should be forced to forego their pensions.
There will be the claim that they are being heavily taxed but most are working in the cash area so I'm sure that they do not declare properly!!

Retirement should mean retirement,give up and get out , give someone else the chance to make a living.

ireland is ageist

against the young

irishh_bob

mickeyk wrote: »

I know an ex Garda who is working full time and I believe it's wrong, It's blocking somebody else who no doubt needs the job much more than they do from working. Can't see much being done about this while you have ex ministers getting pensions while still sitting as TD's. They have no moral authority to do anything about this while this carry on is still the norm. Anybody who is retired and in receipt of a state pension should not be working IMO, if they want something to do there are countless voluntary organisations who would benefit enormously from the input of somebody with their skill and experience.

no sector is better at looking after its retirees than an garda siochanna , anyone who wants a job upon stepping down is guarenteed to get one , the previous seargant in my local village was labouring on a building site less than a month after retirement , he lost around five stone in the space of six months , locals were heard to say, sure he only began working at 50

sh1tstirrer

Anyone know how much of a pension the Gardaí get? Any Garda in my local town have a job the day after they retire :rolleyes:

Godge

(1) The standard of posts and analysis keeps getting better around here
(2) Another public sector bashing thread is really needed
(3) Some people get up off their asses when they could be living a comfortable life collecting their pension and go out and get a job
(4) I thought there were no jobs for all those people sitting on their asses collecting the dole
(5) Seems the older generation could teach some of the younger ones how to get a job

coolshannagh28

Funny how every thread ,all the media and,every conversation is PS bashing ,some sort of correlation going on out there .

Red Actor

"Fact" #1 - there are no jobs to be got
"Fact" #2 - public servants are useless and could be done without - or at least 50% of them.
"Fact" #3 - public servants get huge pensions and never have to worry about the future
"Fact" #4 - public servants are lazy and feckless
"Fact" #5 - public servants walk into a job as soon as they retire

This is as crazy as Grainne Seoige's "false facts" - okay, I forgot that it's useless public servants who write her script.

Vizzy

Red Actor wrote: »

"Fact" #1 - there are no jobs to be got
"Fact" #2 - public servants are useless and could be done without - or at least 50% of them.
"Fact" #3 - public servants get huge pensions and never have to worry about the future
"Fact" #4 - public servants are lazy and feckless
"Fact" #5 - public servants walk into a job as soon as they retire

This is as crazy as Grainne Seoige's "false facts" - okay, I forgot that it's useless public servants who write her script.

What was that I saw passing just now ?
Oh yeah it was the "green eyed monster"

Lumbo

One of my favorite boards "Facts" always thrown out on this forum is that people in the PS wouldn't be able to hack it in the real world.

Yet here we have examples where they do

irishh_bob

Godge wrote: »

(1) The standard of posts and analysis keeps getting better around here
(2) Another public sector bashing thread is really needed
(3) Some people get up off their asses when they could be living a comfortable life collecting their pension and go out and get a job
(4) I thought there were no jobs for all those people sitting on their asses collecting the dole
(5) Seems the older generation could teach some of the younger ones how to get a job

(3) guards find work quickly upon retirement due to thier legendary pull , its got little to do with thier reputation for hard work

listermint

Godge wrote: »

(1) The standard of posts and analysis keeps getting better around here
(2) Another public sector bashing thread is really needed
(3) Some people get up off their asses when they could be living a comfortable life collecting their pension and go out and get a job
(4) I thought there were no jobs for all those people sitting on their asses collecting the dole
(5) Seems the older generation could teach some of the younger ones how to get a job

In fairness to the OP, regardless of all the crazy facts being banded around here, Do you honestly think it is fair to call yourself retired claim a pension and go of working full time ?

If you believe this is fair procedure you need to open your eyes. The soon to be retired department of education head being an albeit extreme but prime example of everything that is corrupt and wrong within the sector. Its unfair on all the workers at the bottom of the sector and there is NOTHING equal about it.

BornToKill

muracan wrote: »

First of all can we define what "retirement "means?
Where I live, RETIRED civil servants are the busiest people in town at present!
For example.....
We have retired Gardai driving buses, teaching learner drivers, driving the
southdoc car,driving testing.
Retired teachers are doing grinds, landscape gardeners,subbing at school,
shop owners, fishermen , farmers etc.

First of all can we define what 'civil servant' means? Neither retired Gardaí nor retired teachers are RETIRED civil servants.

Vizzy

irishh_bob wrote: »

(3) guards find work quickly upon retirement due to thier legendary pull , its got little to do with thier reputation for hard work

And if it is so "cut-throat" in the Private sector,how do they manage to maintain this employment when they are so useless?

irishh_bob

Vizzy wrote: »

And if it is so "cut-throat" in the Private sector,how do they manage to maintain this employment when they are so useless?

who said they were useless ? , im sure thier adequete

Gumbo

irishh_bob wrote: »

no sector is better at looking after its retirees than an garda siochanna , anyone who wants a job upon stepping down is guarenteed to get one , the previous seargant in my local village was labouring on a building site less than a month after retirement , he lost around five stone in the space of six months , locals were heard to say, sure he only began working at 50

you have been using this same post for 2 years now!
Surely this site has been finished by now?

irishh_bob

kceire wrote: »

you have been using this same post for 2 years now!
Surely this site has been finished by now?

i might have made similar posts before although i doubt it was that frequent , do you think commenting on the guards is beyond the pale ?

Gumbo

irishh_bob wrote: »

i might have made similar posts before although i doubt it was that frequent , do you think commenting on the guards is beyond the pale ?

It was the exact same post, even the joke at the end about starting to work at 50, complete copy/paste.

no joke, do a search............

BTW, i agree pensions should not be paid before retirement age, but bear in mind, the guys getting these payouts are not your typical PS employee, their the top tier of people (Very Senior). Do you think its fair for the staff of these people that will have to continue to work till 66 to get a pension that these guys get at 53 or whatever, and thats without taking into account the silly payments these senior guys get.

Pete_Cavan

coolshannagh28 wrote: »

Funny how every thread ,all the media and,every conversation is PS bashing ,some sort of correlation going on out there .

Funny how every thread here which questions practices in the PS is accused of PS bashing. Pensions were originally intended to provide people with an income when they are no longer earning a regular income from employment - surely it is not unreasonable to question the payment of pensions to people who continue to earn a regular income?

Not every thread discussing the PS is PS bashing, of course some people will make out that it is because that suits their own agenda, such people are as bad as those who engage in PS bashing. Can people defend the practice of paying pensions to those still earning an income or are they just going to complain about PS bashing?

irishh_bob

kceire wrote: »

It was the exact same post, even the joke at the end about starting to work at 50, complete copy/paste.

no joke, do a search............

BTW, i agree pensions should not be paid before retirement age, but bear in mind, the guys getting these payouts are not your typical PS employee, their the top tier of people (Very Senior). Do you think its fair for the staff of these people that will have to continue to work till 66 to get a pension that these guys get at 53 or whatever, and thats without taking into account the silly payments these senior guys get.

FYI , i didnt copy and paste but even i did , since when is that a crime that numerous others posters have not committed ?

skafish

muracan wrote: »

With all the talk about the upcoming budget I have a very good way of saving money and creating jobs!!!
First of all can we define what "retirement "means?
Where I live, RETIRED civil servants are the busiest people in town at present!
For example.....
We have retired Gardai driving buses, teaching learner drivers, driving the
southdoc car,driving testing.
Retired teachers are doing grinds, landscape gardeners,subbing at school,
shop owners, fishermen , farmers etc.

Now, I don't have any problem with these retired people working but if they do they should be forced to forego their pensions.
There will be the claim that they are being heavily taxed but most are working in the cash area so I'm sure that they do not declare properly!!

I don't agree. Well, I do , partiallt.
Firstly, these people have contributited to their pensions, and in a lot of cases, put up with lousy pay and conditions before the Celtic Tiger. And if they are lucky enough to be able to retire early, good luck to them.


BUT
I have a problem, like so many others, with retired state employees walking into other state jobs. One example you missed is the number of retired naval officers in the coast guard and fisheries protection, some of whom retired in their early 40s, with pensions in the region of €50k, then walked into other state jobs through the good offices of their former mates on another €50 or €60k.
Entirely different, in my opinion if they go into private industry, or start their own business.
Mind you, I don't think Enda Two Faces Kenny will do anything about it.... he spent his first number of years in the Dail topping up his teachers pension, while keeping somone else out of a job. Makes me sick, this kind of hipocreacy:mad::mad:

Retirement should mean retirement,give up and get out , give someone else the chance to make a living.

:mad:

WalterMitty

Pete_Cavan wrote: »

Funny how every thread here which questions practices in the PS is accused of PS bashing. Pensions were originally intended to provide people with an income when they are no longer earning a regular income from employment - surely it is not unreasonable to question the payment of pensions to people who continue to earn a regular income?

Not every thread discussing the PS is PS bashing, of course some people will make out that it is because that suits their own agenda, such people are as bad as those who engage in PS bashing. Can people defend the practice of paying pensions to those still earning an income or are they just going to complain about PS bashing?

but but but they are ENTITLED to all those perks and pensions and to buy extra years of service dirt cheap at tax payers expense!
What sort of slave driver would make a physically fit guard work in the garda service till 65 doing non frontline work ??? They are ENTITLED to retire at 55 and do other work for a bit of cash to keep from the missus, dont tell the revenue;)!!!

Gumbo

irishh_bob wrote: »

FYI , i didnt copy and paste but even i did , since when is that a crime that numerous others posters have not committed ?

no crime at all

Im sure your labourer mate can fill you in on the legalities of it

WalterMitty wrote: »

and to buy extra years of service dirt cheap at tax payers expense!

I call BS, do you even know what your typing?
When i was earning 38k in a PS job, i was 13k to buy one extra year of service!

skafish

muracan wrote: »

With all the talk about the upcoming budget I have a very good way of saving money and creating jobs!!!
First of all can we define what "retirement "means?
Where I live, RETIRED civil servants are the busiest people in town at present!
For example.....
We have retired Gardai driving buses, teaching learner drivers, driving the
southdoc car,driving testing.
Retired teachers are doing grinds, landscape gardeners,subbing at school,
shop owners, fishermen , farmers etc.

Now, I don't have any problem with these retired people working but if they do they should be forced to forego their pensions.
There will be the claim that they are being heavily taxed but most are working in the cash area so I'm sure that they do not declare properly!!

Retirement should mean retirement,give up and get out , give someone else the chance to make a living.

Sorry, made a bit of a balls first time round

Now, I don't have any problem with these retired people working but if they do they should be forced to forego their pensions.
There will be the claim that they are being heavily taxed but most are working in the cash area so I'm sure that they do not declare properly!!

I don't agree. Well, I do , partiallt.
Firstly, these people have contributited to their pensions, and in a lot of cases, put up with lousy pay and conditions before the Celtic Tiger. And if they are lucky enough to be able to retire early, good luck to them.


BUT
I have a problem, like so many others, with retired state employees walking into other state jobs. One example you missed is the number of retired naval officers in the coast guard and fisheries protection, some of whom retired in their early 40s, with pensions in the region of €50k, then walked into other state jobs through the good offices of their former mates on another €50 or €60k.
Entirely different, in my opinion if they go into private industry, or start their own business.
Mind you, I don't think Enda Two Faces Kenny will do anything about it.... he spent his first number of years in the Dail topping up his teachers pension, while keeping somone else out of a job. Makes me sick, this kind of hipocreacy

irishh_bob

kceire wrote: »

no crime at all

Im sure your labourer mate can fill you in on the legalities of it



I call BS, do you even know what your typing?
When i was earning 38k in a PS job, i was 13k to buy one extra year of service!

sounds like you would have made a good guard yourself , you let nothing go

WalterMitty

Of our current cabinet who have 500years of adult work behind them only af few years of this massive total was in a non public sector/politician/trade union role. They actually dont know how bad pension conditions are in private sector and will never have to face harsh reality of working till 70s that most private sector workers will. They all could nearly retire now on more money than average couple earn for working for a living. And our president michael D is entitled to 6 or 7 pensions worth hundreds of thousands a year!!

This establishment of civil and public service and main political parties will never address all the injustices in the system and just continue to look after themselves,their friends and supporters and gradually any new entrants /recent recruits to public service jobs will be on much lower conditions pay and pensions while the older failed generation will be creaming it for decades.
They will also outsource a load of public sector work to much lower wage private sector companies so that the work of public service can be done but the elite dont wont have to be cut due to outsourcing savings.

WalterMitty

kceire wrote: »

no crime at all

Im sure your labourer mate can fill you in on the legalities of it



I call BS, do you even know what your typing?
When i was earning 38k in a PS job, i was 13k to buy one extra year of service!

when was this? I know many many teachers and civil servants who retired early in recent years paid a fraction of that and some were just topped up without paying as we saw with Roddy Molloy and co. Free/cheap extra years services seemed to be handed out like confetti in some parts of public services/semi states.

Gumbo

irishh_bob wrote: »

sounds like you would have made a good guard yourself , you let nothing go

good memory that is all, when people post the same stuff in many many threads, its sticks with you

WalterMitty wrote: »

when was this? I know many many teachers and civil servants who retired early in recent years paid a fraction of that and some were just topped up without paying as we saw with Roddy Molloy and co. Free/cheap extra years services seemed to be handed out like confetti in some parts of public services/semi states.

2009
As i said in my previous post, the average PS employee doesnt get these extra years, or nothing like it, only the senior guys.

ardmacha

Can people defend the practice of paying pensions to those still earning an income or are they just going to complain about PS bashing?

All the same there is no discussion of former bank executives holding large pensions and still taking up other directorships etc, it is all about the PS.

As for 50 year old Gardai working as labourers, do it not say something that it is better to hire a 50 year old man unused to the work rather than a 20 year old. Perhaps the work ethic is both found in greater proportion in the PS and among middle aged people rather than some unemployed youths.

irishh_bob

kceire wrote: »

good memory that is all, when people post the same stuff in many many threads, its sticks with you



2009
As i said in my previous post, the average PS employee doesnt get these extra years, or nothing like it, only the senior guys.

either that or certain topics touch a nerve

Gumbo

irishh_bob wrote: »

either that or certain topics touch a nerve

no not at all, im nowhere near retirement and so new to the PS that any change made makes no real difference to me as im used to it from the Private sector.

sometimes i throw a few comments into specifi threads but then you watch them spiral into the gutter with the same comments, from the same posters with not much facts, and nothing more than wind up nature about them, that you forget about thet thread and get on with life, moaning on an internet forum wont do much for the blood pressure

take now for instance, im posting here while i wait on my butler to prepare me a cup of tea and a chicken sambo (chicken freshly slauthered today, and the butler comes free with my public service job)...............

fliball123

coolshannagh28 wrote: »

Funny how every thread ,all the media and,every conversation is PS bashing ,some sort of correlation going on out there .

Its not funny its because of the disparity of how everyone else is being dealt with in this society while the PS are being cushioned and everyone has copped onto this and are complaining and rightly so IMO

fliball123

kceire wrote: »

you have been using this same post for 2 years now!
Surely this site has been finished by now?

The site may have finished but the conditions that this poster has pointed out for the last 2 years still remains

Gumbo

..........................

Kernel

Best person for the job should get the job, regardless of whether they are retired or not. In many cases, a retired person will probably have much more experience, certainly more life experience, and will be a proven and dependable person. C'est la vie.

fliball123

Kernel wrote: »

Best person for the job should get the job, regardless of whether they are retired or not. In many cases, a retired person will probably have much more experience, certainly more life experience, and will be a proven and dependable person. C'est la vie.

I aggree but if a retired person takes the job then they are no longer retired and should not be drawing a pension...

pog it

antoobrien wrote: »

This is one that I have a real problem with, especially with so many young qualified teachers that are (according to the unions) looking for work.

No offence but there have been warnings in the past few years about an oversupply in primary school teachers particularly. If people are still starting into primary school qualifications they had better be prepared to wait for a job as that is the way the market is for now, and god knows how long more. It has been reported quite a lot and is known on the ground.

Gumbo

fliball123 wrote: »

I aggree but if a retired person takes the job then they are no longer retired and should not be drawing a pension...

unless they are pass thed national retirement age of course.
If my 75 year old grandfather wants to keep working (wgich he does) then its his entitlement to keep working. he claims COAP as is allowed and earns his few quid continuing his life career as a butcher.

53 year old (or any age up to retirement age, including bertie, senior CS/PS etc etc) state employees getting pensions at that age is a scandal , that i do agree on.

fliball123

kceire wrote: »

unless they are pass thed national retirement age of course.
If my 75 year old grandfather wants to keep working (wgich he does) then its his entitlement to keep working. he claims COAP as is allowed and earns his few quid continuing his life career as a butcher.

53 year old (or any age up to retirement age, including bertie, senior CS/PS etc etc) state employees getting pensions at that age is a scandal , that i do agree on.

Well thats fair enough the figure is 68 for drawing the OAP thats the age of retirement ...there should not be one rule for one sector in society and a rule for the rest

Gumbo

fliball123 wrote: »

Well thats fair enough the figure is 68 for drawing the OAP thats the age of retirement ...there should not be one rule for one sector in society and a rule for the rest

i agree, but saying say one rule for the PS is unfair as the early retirement with pension doesnt apply to 90% of PS, its the TD's, politicians, Senior PS/Cs etc that get this entitlement.
Pensions can be drawn in the private sector early too, i can draw my PRSa from 60 onwards but of course it has to last longer so the payments are dropped. in the PS if you retire early, your years of service drop so your paymenst drop and also you pay apanalty because you go early too.

fliball123

kceire wrote: »

i agree, but saying say one rule for the PS is unfair as the early retirement with pension doesnt apply to 90% of PS, its the TD's, politicians, Senior PS/Cs etc that get this entitlement.
Pensions can be drawn in the private sector early too, i can draw my PRSa from 60 onwards but of course it has to last longer so the payments are dropped. in the PS if you retire early, your years of service drop so your paymenst drop and also you pay apanalty because you go early too.

And you will see that scenario throughout the PS ... that the higher grades are cushioned but no one on the lower scale are kicking up about it....

Paulzx

Normal PS workers do not get bonus years added to their service when they retire. This is restricted to top civil servants and should be stopped.


The normal PS worker must complete 40 years service (bar a few specific exceptions) in order to qualify for the 50% pension.

Any years they are short has a huge effect on their final pension. If they join the PS at 20 they will be 60 before they are entitled to the full 50% and will lose out if they go with a shortfall.

There is a provision for someone joining say at 35 to buy back service over the course of their full career but it is pretty expensive and at the moment people wouldn't have the spare cash. It is a weekly deduction from your wages on top of superannuation, pension levy and prsi.

Kernel

fliball123 wrote: »

I aggree but if a retired person takes the job then they are no longer retired and should not be drawing a pension...

But they are entitled to the pension. They have worked long enough for it, contributed to it, so why shouldn't they get the pension? A pension is something people pay into over the years. It's a part of their employment contract, so if they choose to continue working after they have retired then fair play to them.

fliball123

Kernel wrote: »

But they are entitled to the pension. They have worked long enough for it, contributed to it, so why shouldn't they get the pension? A pension is something people pay into over the years. It's a part of their employment contract, so if they choose to continue working after they have retired then fair play to them.

Sorry but I was under the impression that a substantial part of these pensions are actually paid for by the tax payer??? Why should the tax payer foot the bill for these pensions when the majority of well private sector tax payers cannot afford their own? If they are not at the age of retirement as long as the tax payer are paying this bill I believe it should not be paid

kippy

fliball123 wrote: »

Sorry but I was under the impression that a substantial part of these pensions are actually paid for by the tax payer??? Why should the tax payer foot the bill for these pensions when the majority of well private sector tax payers cannot afford their own? If they are not at the age of retirement as long as the tax payer are paying this bill I believe it should not be paid

Realistically the tax payer pays for the whole pension of any public sector worker.....be that taxpayer the public sector worker or the "Private sector" tax payer that I am sure you are alluding to.

Contrary to popular belief, public sector workers do fund a portion of their own pension out of their own wages and as mentioned above can only claim full pension rights after 40 years service. If you wish to buy back years it can be a not so cheap business, with a percentage of your salary taken out of your wages every week in addition to your "normal" public service pension contribution, spouse and child pension contribution, COAP pension contribution and of course the pension levy, all effecting your net salary.

The "Employer" (the state) would also fund a portion of the pension.
There are issues with the funding costs of public sector pensions but these have been resolved for new entrants (final pension is based on your average wage over the years worked as opposed to the average wage over the final two years worked - which will make a massive difference)

The top levels of CS and PS have completely different terms and options available to them.



I have issues with retired teachers working in schools, when there are so many teachers out of work however on a real "Ground level, practicalities" side of things, these people only cover days here and there and have proven themselves to be reliable to the principle who may only have a few hours to get someone in on short term.

Kernel

fliball123 wrote: »

Sorry but I was under the impression that a substantial part of these pensions are actually paid for by the tax payer??? Why should the tax payer foot the bill for these pensions when the majority of well private sector tax payers cannot afford their own? If they are not at the age of retirement as long as the tax payer are paying this bill I believe it should not be paid

Public sector workers pay taxes too.

fliball123

Kernel wrote: »

Public sector workers pay taxes too.

true but how much of that tax paid for by the PS goes to pay for private sector pensions