Running on Treadmills

martyeds

I am new to running. I usually go to my local gym 3 times a week and do 5 kms. From reading here a lot of people recommend running on the road as opposed to treadmills. What is the reason for this?

I am not knocking peoples opinions, i was was wondering what was the main differences in both of them.

ThisRegard

Run 5k on the road and you'll see it's much more difficult than doing it on a treadmill. On a treadmill you can get away with just lifting your legs up and down while the roller does all the forward moving for you.

couerdelion

Running on the road also gets your body used to the impact it will endure when you race. Using a treadmill makes you soft.

Treadmill times also don't really correlate with the real world. I'm alway a lot faster on the treadmill than in the real world even if I up the gradient.

meijin

http://runningtimes.com/Article.aspx?ArticleID=3847 and some treadmill to real world pace conversion chart http://www.hillrunner.com/training/tmillchart.php

anymore

martyeds wrote: »

I am new to running. I usually go to my local gym 3 times a week and do 5 kms. From reading here a lot of people recommend running on the road as opposed to treadmills. What is the reason for this?

I am not knocking peoples opinions, i was was wondering what was the main differences in both of them.

martyed, i am not being smartassed here, but the best way to find out is to go out and run the kinds of distances on the road as you do on the tredmill !

martyeds

anymore wrote: »

martyed, i am not being smartassed here, but the best way to find out is to go out and run the kinds of distances on the road as you do on the tredmill !

I am planning on having a run on the road at weekend, i was just wondering what to expect.
I was under the impression that run runnning would be slighty more interesting.....different scenery and so on, but i also expect the wind factor would be against me. No offence taken by the way.

jack presley

I find I have to run faster and for longer on a treadmill to do my usual distance so i don't trust their output. Maybe you'rte actually running further than you think?

plodder

meijin wrote: »

http://runningtimes.com/Article.aspx?ArticleID=3847 and some treadmill to real world pace conversion chart http://www.hillrunner.com/training/tmillchart.php

I'd be sceptical about both of those links to be honest. Treadmill and road-running are apples and oranges, imho and setting the incline to be more than a few % is asking for injury trouble imo.

anymore

martyeds wrote: »

I am planning on having a run on the road at weekend, i was just wondering what to expect.
I was under the impression that run runnning would be slighty more interesting.....different scenery and so on, but i also expect the wind factor would be against me. No offence taken by the way.

Trying to run into a strong wind is so bloody tiring and frustationg ! Give me rain any day of the week !
Thanks - it so very much different both in good ways and bad.If i did 26.2 miles on a thread mill, I could in all honesty say i had run a marathon !

anymore

martyeds wrote: »

I am planning on having a run on the road at weekend, i was just wondering what to expect.
I was under the impression that run runnning would be slighty more interesting.....different scenery and so on, but i also expect the wind factor would be against me. No offence taken by the way.

As regards scenery, my instincts say that running in nice scenery should be easier than in monotonous scenery but my experience of running in dingle and Rome City tells me me than when you struggling hard to get a good time, you dont give a damn about the scenery !:)
having good crowds to support is much more important ! However, having said that, i do enjoy running in the woods or out on hills.

Deego01

You'll probably find you ache in different places after the road run. Because the treadmill does a lot of work for you, especially in the glutes and hamstrings, you'll find that road running at the start will put these under strain. A few core/glute exercises at home or in the gym will help. hope you enjoyed the run.

Seres

The transition from threadie to road is easier , the other way round is a killer , soul destroying ( the threadie ) once you get use to the great outdoors !

Deego01

A good book downloaded to the iphone helps a bit.

Slidey

I actually came in here to start a thread on something similar to this.

Normally I found treadmills soul destroying and would struggle on them.

I recently did a 5k race and finished in 20.45. Was more than happy with my time but felt I could have cut it down a bit with a little more experience of races.

Then last night after a small challenge was put to me I went on my treadmill which I rarely use and did the 5K in 18.36

As others have said, it really is apples and oranges.

snailsong

Running outdoors is more enjoyable. You get to look around, fresh air and the sense of progress that you can't have with a treadmill. You might meet somebody, or at least get a wave or a smile from other runners. Even if the weather is bad you won't notice it once you get moving. The time will fly and you'll find it immensely enjoyable, even moreso if you have a partner or group to run with. If you're new to running you shouldn't be too concerned about pace. Just enjoy the sensation, and you might never go back to the gym.
I have a gym membership and a fancy treadmill at home, I never use them. But tomorrow at 8, even if its pi$$ing down and blowing force 9, I'll be heading out to run with my friends with a smile on my face.

T runner

Froma purely training perspective teh threadmill is excellent for running form as you are taking the exact same stride time after time. You tend to run with a higher cadence on a thread and a little faster. A great steady session is to run briskish but comfortable adding .1 of a K every two minutes. The body has to adapt to teh increased speed. It usually does it on a threadmill by improving form. You can hold teh pace before it gets too tough. When you get back to your original pace it feels like the effort of jogging.

They are very versatile indeed. I do a mix of road and thread now.

(also great for putting a babbie to sleep/entertaining her.)

Gringo78

T runner wrote: »

A great steady session is to run briskish but comfortable adding .1 of a K every two minutes. The body has to adapt to teh increased speed. It usually does it on a threadmill by improving form. You can hold teh pace before it gets too tough. When you get back to your original pace it feels like the effort of jogging.

They are very versatile indeed. I do a mix of road and thread now.

(also great for putting a babbie to sleep/entertaining her.)

I do that sort of a session on the treadmill a lot....its a very controlled steady run. I will always choose road over treadmill but the treadmill at home gives me the opportunity to run when I'm minding kids asleep in bed and am confined to the house.

Ignore speed on a treadmill.....I stay away a lot with work and so encounter all sorts of different treadmills in hotel gyms and they can be fast, slow, accurate, its a lucky bag. I just pick my target pace heart rate and ease up to that over 12 minutes on the treadmill and then adjust the speed by 0.1kph to hold the HR steady for a tempo run. I don't like intervals on the treadmill as I don't like running 5k pace or faster as I don't think the treadmill handles it so well so I usually do a hills session instead which again the treadmill is great for (2-3min hill reps)

rasher_m

My opinion would be that the best place to run is on the grass. The road is bad for the joints and actually the grass is more difficult to run on but is better for the joints.
I find that Treadmill running is boring and mundane and I wouldnt even contemplate it if I didnt have some music.
My father always thought that it was more difficult to run on a treadmill on account of it being so boring.
Also if you're indoors and sweating then you're going to be feeling a lot hotter as well and will find it more difficult to breathe.
There really is nothing easy about the treadmill but it is very handy in bad weather or in darkness.

anymore

Slidey wrote: »

I actually came in here to start a thread on something similar to this.

Normally I found treadmills soul destroying and would struggle on them.

I recently did a 5k race and finished in 20.45. Was more than happy with my time but felt I could have cut it down a bit with a little more experience of races.

Then last night after a small challenge was put to me I went on my treadmill which I rarely use and did the 5K in 18.36

As others have said, it really is apples and oranges.

On a treadmill the surface you are ' running on' is itself moving. On the road, it is the runner who has to move over a stationery surface, hence it is the runner doing all of the work on the road. On the treadmill, a motor moves the surface !

BeepBeep67

anymore wrote: »

On a treadmill the surface you are ' running on' is itself moving. On the road, it is the runner who has to move over a stationery surface, hence it is the runner doing all of the work on the road. On the treadmill, a motor moves the surface !

You still have the move to keep up with that moving surface, training by HR is the way to go as Gringo78 says.
I tend to use by treadmill for recovery runs and early morning runs in the Winter and obviously last year it was priceless with the snow. Looking back about 40% of my running was done on treadmill from mid November through to year end I didn't suffer any loss of fitness and ran strongly in January. I had to get creative with sessions and some of the mid-week longer runs were mind numbingly boring, but you do what you have to do.
BTW I always feel I run faster outdoors generally at a perceived easier pace, whether that is a treadmill calibration issue or perception I'm not sure.
Overall it's nice to have the option and balance and variety are only positive imo.

anymore

BeepBeep67 wrote: »

You still have the move to keep up with that moving surface, training by HR is the way to go as Gringo78 says.
I tend to use by treadmill for recovery runs and early morning runs in the Winter and obviously last year it was priceless with the snow. Looking back about 40% of my running was done on treadmill from mid November through to year end I didn't suffer any loss of fitness and ran strongly in January. I had to get creative with sessions and some of the mid-week longer runs were mind numbingly boring, but you do what you have to do.
BTW I always feel I run faster outdoors generally at a perceived easier pace, whether that is a treadmill calibration issue or perception I'm not sure.
Overall it's nice to have the option and balance and variety are only positive imo.

My feeling is that there is significantly less effort invloved in simply getting your feet off the treadmill to allow it to continue moving than there is in continously propelling yourself forward on the road.
However to each thier own.

T runner

Gringo78 wrote: »

I do that sort of a session on the treadmill a lot....its a very controlled steady run. I will always choose road over treadmill but the treadmill at home gives me the opportunity to run when I'm minding kids asleep in bed and am confined to the house.

Ignore speed on a treadmill.....I stay away a lot with work and so encounter all sorts of different treadmills in hotel gyms and they can be fast, slow, accurate, its a lucky bag. I just pick my target pace heart rate and ease up to that over 12 minutes on the treadmill and then adjust the speed by 0.1kph to hold the HR steady for a tempo run. I don't like intervals on the treadmill as I don't like running 5k pace or faster as I don't think the treadmill handles it so well so I usually do a hills session instead which again the treadmill is great for (2-3min hill reps)

I agree. The incline adjuster really makes a threadmill. Going to try 6km (equiv. time) uphill hard after a warmup as a good session to get all the muscles working hard.

Nwm2

ThisRegard wrote: »

Run 5k on the road and you'll see it's much more difficult than doing it on a treadmill. On a treadmill you can get away with just lifting your legs up and down while the roller does all the forward moving for you.

What a load of utter rubbish. Junior cert science should be all you need to understand this.

The reality is that there is very little difference between running on a treadmill and running on the road. Studies have been done comparing gaits etc, and show tiny differences.

Cooling is a big possible factor, but that's nothing to do with the actual running, and you can just use a fan.

I'm a big fan of treadmill running, do 99% of my running on it (long easy runs, intervals, tempo runs, hill runs), and while not particularly fast, it has gotten me to 18:XX 5k and 38:XX 10k speeds. I use my road race paces to calculate treadmill paces as per McMillan/Daniels, and use an incline of 1.5% and off I go.

Nwm2

anymore wrote: »

My feeling is that there is significantly less effort invloved in simply getting your feet off the treadmill to allow it to continue moving than there is in continously propelling yourself forward on the road.
However to each thier own.

Oh really? Well, why not go to Dublin Airport, stand at the end of one of those moving walkways, and starting hopping up and down. Think you'll stay stationary as the walkway moves beneath you?

Not convinced? It may surprise you to find out that the Earth is not flat after all, but is a sphere with the surface rotating in space at hundreds of MPH. Why not just lift your feet off the Earth and hey presto you're running so fast you can keep up with the dawn?

AntiVirus

ThisRegard wrote: »

Run 5k on the road and you'll see it's much more difficult than doing it on a treadmill. On a treadmill you can get away with just lifting your legs up and down while the roller does all the forward moving for you.

Everytime treadmills and running come up a few posters post this kind of rubbish.

Just to help you understand how it works here's something for you to try. Stand on a treadmill and turn it on. You'll start to move backwards, try get back to your starting position without having to move forward.

The biggest factor with running outside is the wind and hills. On windy days you'll get a head wind but you'll also get a tail wind.

ThisRegard

No need for the condescendion, I understand perfectly how it works. I thought my comment was obvious to all as not being an academic study into the finer details of forward propulsion on a treadmill, my point is that generally less effort it's required.

AntiVirus

ThisRegard wrote: »

No need for the condescendion, I understand perfectly how it works. I thought my comment was obvious to all as not being an academic study into the finer details of forward propulsion on a treadmill, my point is that generally less effort it's required.

Re read your own post, it certainly isn't clear from it that you understand how it works.

ThisRegard wrote: »

On a treadmill you can get away with just lifting your legs up and down while the roller does all the forward moving for you

That is just complete rubbish!

ThisRegard

You're pulling my chain here aren't you ? You mean everything I saw by Warner Brothers, cartoonists with a unmatched understanding of physics, have led me astray ? And here's me about to base my masters on electricity generation by putting an oversized bunny rabbit on a treadmill, scaring it so that its legs spin violently in place thus turning the belt without having to worry about it running off the edge and hey pesto, free electricity for the price of a carrot. Back to the drawing board for me so.

Looking back on this page it seems Thursdays must be the days the anally retentive kill joys are given their internet access.

plodder

ThisRegard wrote: »

No need for the condescendion, I understand perfectly how it works. I thought my comment was obvious to all as not being an academic study into the finer details of forward propulsion on a treadmill, my point is that generally less effort it's required.

You touched a raw nerve there all right. Treadmill vs road running is one of those issues like barefoot running or heel vs forefoot striking. Tread carefully :pac:

AntiVirus

ThisRegard wrote: »

You're pulling my chain here aren't you ?

Pulling your chain? No

ThisRegard wrote:

On a treadmill you can get away with just lifting your legs up and down while the roller does all the forward moving for you

That is just complete rubbish!

whydoibother?

I just always feel like I'm going to fall when I try to run on a treadmill. Having said that, I never have so it may be illogical. Also, I've only tried running on treadmills a couple of times. I way prefer outdoor running and don't really care what surface. I'm not very experienced though.

ThisRegard

I actually feel like I have fallen into some deja vu obscuro cartoon world now where the characters have fallen into some sort of comedy loop, like Sideshow Bob standing on all the rakes, only not as highbrow. Enough of this nonsense for me.

zico10

The lazy b@$t@rd, the treadmill is doing all the work.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YSp1r1QhUSY

ThisRegard

Here, this is what you people need, save all arguments.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XUuwEq98ByM

RayCun

I'm shocked and disappointed that this thread has gone so far without addressing the vital aeroplane question

ThisRegard

Don't start with the airplane one, even the Mythbusters were questioned on their findings for that !

TheRunningDude

anymore wrote: »

On a treadmill the surface you are ' running on' is itself moving. On the road, it is the runner who has to move over a stationery surface, hence it is the runner doing all of the work on the road. On the treadmill, a motor moves the surface !

I have to say, I never really bought into this argument at all. Relative to the surface under your feet, you are still propelling yourself forward and need to keep doing so or you'll go off the back. The fact that the surface is moving under your feet does not make any difference to the physics of running contrary to many peoples opinion. The only way it would make a difference is if you are holding the rails.

There are of course other big differences such as no wind resistance on the treadmill and the fact that treadmill running would bore you to tears.

EDIT: I see this myth has already been debunked by others in this thread. Move along folks...

T runner

AntiVirus wrote: »

Everytime treadmills and running come up a few posters post this kind of rubbish.

...............

AntiVirus wrote: »

.........
That is just complete rubbish!

AntiVirus wrote: »

Pulling your chain? No

That is just complete rubbish!

Nwm2 wrote: »

What a load of utter rubbish. Junior cert science should be all you need to understand this.

Lads (and ill donate you my house if you are not both male...oh and before you squeel with pointed fingers im also a male): Could you try and lose the self righteous condescention? Youre like Slater and Waldorf on the muppet show! If you cant argue without being anal maybe best not to argue at all?

The reality is that there is very little difference between running on a treadmill and running on the road. Studies have been done comparing gaits etc, and show tiny differences.

If that is the "reality" then surely you will have some scholarly articles to substantiate it?

Cooling is a big possible factor, but that's nothing to do with the actual running, and you can just use a fan.

Cooling is NOT one of the major differences IMO opinion its one of the minor ones.

Wind resistance is major.
Tendency of slower runners to take shorter stride lenghts and faster runners to take longer stride lenghts.
Position of the motor relative to the belt.
Position of the runner on the belt.
Tendency for runners to use high cadence on threadmills even at slow speeds.
Tendencies of runners to lean back on a threadmill. This means that the foot is worked in a different way on landing..and is worked exactly in this different way on each strike. The runner jumps up more and so always lands slightly back relative the the moving belt. This means that the runner uses less force at this point to move the foot through to his toes: or if he uses the same force he will achieve a longer stride.

I'm a big fan of treadmill running, do 99% of my running on it (long easy runs, intervals, tempo runs, hill runs),

So youre not experienced on road? You cant make a comparison based on experience? Youre really a gym bunny not a runner?

and while not particularly fast, it has gotten me to 18:XX 5k and 38:XX 10k speeds. I use my road race paces to calculate treadmill paces as per McMillan/Daniels, and use an incline of 1.5% and off I go.

There is a poster here who has posted 14:30 for 5k on road training alone. Whats youre point? Again try running on a road or mixing them before insulting people. Actually just dont insult them at all.

AntiVirus

T runner wrote: »

If you cant argue without being anal maybe best not to argue at all?

Whos arguing??

ThisRegard wrote:

On a treadmill you can get away with just lifting your legs up and down while the roller does all the forward moving for you

All I'm saying is that is just complete rubbish!

AntiVirus

T runner wrote: »

Wind resistance is major.

This is about the only thing I would agree with in your post

RayCun

AntiVirus wrote: »

All I'm saying is that is just complete rubbish!

Repeatedly saying "that is complete rubbish" is not conducive to friendly discussion.

T runner

RayCun wrote: »

Repeatedly saying "that is complete rubbish" is not conducive to friendly discussion.

Unfortunately, our little friend antivirus is well aware of this.

Pronator

T runner wrote: »

Unfortunately, our little friend antivirus is well aware of this.

Maybe he needs an upgrade:D

crazy cabbage

much prefer outdoor running. used to run on a treadmill but found that it was really bad for my balance (and no i wasn't holding on to the sides). anyone else find this or know why?

since i discovered outdoor running i cant even imagin running in a gym

ps: jez can we all calm down. im going for a run and when i get back can we all just be one big happy family

seanynova

i ran a PB once on a tredmill......but, it didnt count.....

• there was a girl running beside and in front of me - opposite sex pacers
• there was a ventillation fan blowing wind from behind me - wind aided run.
• i had the setting on 2% decline - net downhill run.

back on topic, ive been running on tredmills a fair bit lately and i find that its much harder, prob around 40sec/mile slower on tredmill when running easy.

AEDIC

Firstly.... treadmill people...not tHreadmill or tredmill... :rolleyes:

My 2c is that personally I find it easier running on the treadmill than I do on the road because of the undulations that appear naturally in even the flattest of road surfaces, and the need to self regulate your pace more, however I prefer road/trail running 1000 times more than the treadmill.

Treadmill miles are easy miles for me in comparison, however they are still tough at times especially those 'going long' sessions, as the constant regular pace (unless you adjust the speed yourself with the buttons) can be demanding.

For me there is a place for both.... especially during the wintery months where the weather is shocking, or to help someone ease back in after an injury.

yizorselves

Treadmills suck compared to running outside imo. I only use them to get the warmed up before stretching in the gym. Cant imagine running longish distances on them, its so boring and restricted. Move a few inches to the left or right and faceplant oh the humanity!!

I suppose they could be used as temporary solution if there's extreme weather going on.

tunguska

Personally I think the treadmill has gotten a bad rap, which is unjustified. I think if you're creative and use the incline its possible to have some great sessions. Running on the flat at the same speed is a bit useless though. My own personal favorite is from the Daniels book(what else):

5 Mins w/u then 15mins at a pace and incline hard enough to get your heart rate up into the Threshold zone(I go a little higher to compensate for lack of wind resistance and terrain).
+ 3mins easy + 15mins @ T-pace + 3mins easy + 15mins @ T-pace + 3mins easy + 15mins @ T-pace + 5mins easy

Really great session, better or at the very least comparable to anything I've ever done outdoors.

fair play for ever

Looking at getting one as live in the country and hard to get proper running in during winter and if it freezes impossible.Also my wife says she will use it.What brands should one consider.sorry if thread elsewhere on this.

dev123

fair play for ever wrote: »

Looking at getting one as live in the country and hard to get proper running in during winter and if it freezes impossible.Also my wife says she will use it.What brands should one consider.sorry if thread elsewhere on this.

This thread on the Gear and Equipment sub-forum should help

Deego01

There are a lot of good second hand commercial ones out there. The one I bought for my shop is big and solid with lots of features and I even managed to get a years warranty.