How would you describe your political stance?

nesf

Are you left/right/etc? Please respond as I'm curious if the numbers will match up with my thinking from reading the forum.

RichardAnd

Good idea, I'd be interested to see the results of this. A centrist myself

nesf

My bet is on a left leaning result btw with an inordinate number of libertarians.

irishh_bob

centre right

Suryavarman

I'm a libertarian myself and I see we're off to an early lead :P

Lockstep

I'd view myself as centre-left. Although I have been called everything from a libertarian, free-market capitalist, communist, menshevik, totalitarian and so on.

Benny_Cake

Left wing here but open-minded,I hate it when people get completely blinkered and treat their political ideology like supporting a football team.That said,I'd also expect quite a few libertarian responses

Border-Rat

Where is the option for far-right?

nesf

Border-Rat wrote: »

Where is the option for far-right?

Conservative Right and Libertarian cover it no?

Suryavarman

nesf wrote: »

Conservative Right and Libertarian cover it no?

I think Border-Rat might be referring to fascist.

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

texidub

Satanic centrist bubblegum anarchophile.. WHERE IS MY BUTTON?

EDIT: Serious answer: ideologies and fixed positions are for those who have stopped thinking. So I reject them all.

polakdot

none of the above..

far right

Border-Rat

nesf wrote: »

Conservative Right and Libertarian cover it no?

I suppose. I feel the centre-right has hijacked the term 'Conservative'.

nesf

Suryavarman wrote: »

I think Border-Rat might be referring to fascist.

Fascists are generally a subset of the Conservative Right though aren't they? Like how Communists are a subset of the Hard Left.

nesf

Border-Rat wrote: »

I suppose. I feel the centre-right has hijacked the term 'Conservative'.

It's always contentious when you try to classify political movements. What exactly is centre-right anyway?

This is mostly about how we identify ourselves rather than anything exacting.

Suryavarman

nesf wrote: »

Fascists are generally a subset of the Conservative Right though aren't they? Like how Communists are a subset of the Hard Left.

When somebody says Conservative right to me I think Margaret Thatcher or Ronald Reagan but Mussolini or Franco wouldn't even pop into my head. Whereas if someone says Far right those would be the first two to come to mind (although I would consider fascism a child of the left but that's a discussion for another day). I would consider Communism/Socialism the only ideology in the Hard left category.

Border-Rat

nesf wrote: »

Fascists are generally a subset of the Conservative Right though aren't they? Like how Communists are a subset of the Hard Left.

I see the centre-right as Conservative, the hard-right as Nationalist, Fascist, National Socialist etc. I'd never call myself a Conservative, the term seems to have been hijacked by parliamentarians (Tories etc).

Border-Rat

nesf wrote: »

It's always contentious when you try to classify political movements. What exactly is centre-right anyway?

I consider them to be mainstream, i.e. the Republican Party, Fine Gael. I find myself opposing these people more than the centre-left.

This is mostly about how we identify ourselves rather than anything exacting.

I know, I don't mean to nitpick.

Pride Fighter

Lockstep wrote: »

I'd view myself as centre-left. Although I have been called everything from a libertarian, free-market capitalist, communist, menshevik, totalitarian and so on.

I'll call you a Trotskyite to help you complete your list:D:p

I said centre left, but I'd be a strong Libertarian on social issues while believing in strong regulation and the role of the state in economic issues.

nesf

Border-Rat wrote: »

I see the centre-right as Conservative, the hard-right as Nationalist, Fascist, National Socialist etc. I'd never call myself a Conservative, the term seems to have been hijacked by parliamentarians (Tories etc).

I can see where you are coming from but I think common parlance would put the like's of Gay Mitchell in as a Conservative within an Irish context. Centre-right is more liberal socially or at least more interested in economics than social issues from my perspective.

Manach

I'd consider myself conservative, a lot of Burke, Disraeli, Burkley with the odd soupcon of Hayek.

Scofflaw

nesf wrote: »

My bet is on a left leaning result btw with an inordinate number of libertarians.

My bet is right-leaning with a decent showing of centre-left.

cordially,
Scofflaw

Lockstep

My bet is for right leaning with a decent array of centre-leftists and a disproportionate amount of libertarians.

psychward

I choose the centre as from there I can snipe at those on both sides equally. I probably oscillate from centre right to centre left to libertarianism as I believe freedom is the most important right we have but do not want to be associated with loons who do not understand that freedom must be tempered with common sense therefore all labels irritate me. However I do not think any philosophy will work unless there is an anti corruption foundation of integrity and this is lacking everywhere. Looking at the way the economy and the world is going I am starting to think anarchy is the only solution. Maybe it's just moments of righteous anger which makes me think this way.

Hayte

none of the above.

Dirk Gently

when I look at your list I can't help but see Irish political organisations for each option (Permabear gets honorary Irish libertarian organisation status) and I feel uncomfortable aligning myself with any of them. It's easier to say I'm furthest from conservatism I think than closer to anything else in particular.

Briefly, I would be libertarian on social issues but believe more equal societies preform better economically. I'm not generally in favour of market distortions like rent allowance or high dole rates but recognise their necessity due to contradictions in maintaining our unequal system and I also recognise that public handouts keep private businesses going as the money mostly gets spent in the private sector. I also recognise that high public wages and high benefits are a symptom of the cowboy capitalism we engaged in and not the actual cause of our trouble. I've no time for any unions who represent highly paid workers on wage issues but do support unions for the protection of low paid workers and in maintaining basic health / safety / discrimination issues for all.

I favour free market and competition in the real economy but do not support the financial / markets side of things and view speculation / betting as a treat to the real economy. I think business has more in common with the worker than the financial markets and in order for business to do well then citizens must do well also. I have no problem being pro-buisness and anti markets at the same time. I believe if something is too big to fail then it's too big to exist and should be broken up into separate entities. I believe in universal health care and believe it should be publicly provided by the state. I cringe at the big government / small government debates and the light touch / over regulate debates as I prefer common sense regulation which can be either plentiful or sparse depending on what is necessary. There is such a thing as common sense somewhere in between zero / self regulation and strangling bureaucracy.

I don't think any state should have "pillar banks" especially private run pillar banks. It's another example of too big to fail. Private banks should be smaller and more plentiful to spread the risk and of course should be regulated by the state by setting upper limits on wage / mortgage ratios and rules on percentages of exposure to different sectors. Libertarians might want to allow banks to play at their own risk but I prefer not having a basket case of an economy when the bank inevitably over exposes itself and goes bust.

My biggest political gripes are cronyism and increasing corporatism. I think the biggest challenge facing us politically is accountability and vested interests influencing policy as well as parish pump politics, but that's down to us as citizens mostly. Democracy only works when people take part and make rational decisions. Irish people I feel don't really have the necessary attitudes to have a strong democracy. We prefer to moan about things and blame others too much.

I'm thinking this means I'm both socially and economically left but I would be very much pro enterprise. I have no ideological hangups when it comes to problem solving. I do believe that in order to have civil liberty we must restrict the freedom of corporations to become too big or too influential, in much the same way as you must restrict a rapist from raping in order to protect the liberty of his would be victim. I think libertarians don't make that connection when they say everyone must be unrestricted once it doesn't harm anyone else. I think they fail to see the harm zero regulation and concentrated wealth accumulation does to society. I'll let Nesf suggest a box for me to tick in the poll.

bijapos

Excellent post Dirk Gently, + 100 to most of that.

I ticked centre-left in the poll though I wouldn't be altogether comfortable with the moniker, I suppose its too hard to put in a box for every taste.

I'd consider myself to be somewhat in line with Nordic Social Democrats (though they aren't by any means perfect) with a strong leaning to environmentalism and social justice. (If that makes any sense).

karma_

Firmly on the left, however not as hard-left as some posters believe me to be, for the purposes of the poll, I ticked centre-left.

MysticalRain

Centre left, or flaming liberal pinko commie by American standards.

nesf

Dirk Gently wrote: »

when I look at your list I can't help but see Irish political organisations for each option (Permabear gets honorary Irish libertarian organisation status) and I feel uncomfortable aligning myself with any of them. It's easier to say I'm furthest from conservatism I think than closer to anything else in particular.

Briefly, I would be libertarian on social issues but believe more equal societies preform better economically. I'm not generally in favour of market distortions like rent allowance or high dole rates but recognise their necessity due to contradictions in maintaining our unequal system and I also recognise that public handouts keep private businesses going as the money mostly gets spent in the private sector. I also recognise that high public wages and high benefits are a symptom of the cowboy capitalism we engaged in and not the actual cause of our trouble. I've no time for any unions who represent highly paid workers on wage issues but do support unions for the protection of low paid workers and in maintaining basic health / safety / discrimination issues for all.

I favour free market and competition in the real economy but do not support the financial / markets side of things and view speculation / betting as a treat to the real economy. I think business has more in common with the worker than the financial markets and in order for business to do well then citizens must do well also. I have no problem being pro-buisness and anti markets at the same time. I believe if something is too big to fail then it's too big to exist and should be broken up into separate entities. I believe in universal health care and believe it should be publicly provided by the state. I cringe at the big government / small government debates and the light touch / over regulate debates as I prefer common sense regulation which can be either plentiful or sparse depending on what is necessary. There is such a thing as common sense somewhere in between zero / self regulation and strangling bureaucracy.

I don't think any state should have "pillar banks" especially private run pillar banks. It's another example of too big to fail. Private banks should be smaller and more plentiful to spread the risk and of course should be regulated by the state by setting upper limits on wage / mortgage ratios and rules on percentages of exposure to different sectors. Libertarians might want to allow banks to play at their own risk but I prefer not having a basket case of an economy when the bank inevitably over exposes itself and goes bust.

My biggest political gripes are cronyism and increasing corporatism. I think the biggest challenge facing us politically is accountability and vested interests influencing policy as well as parish pump politics, but that's down to us as citizens mostly. Democracy only works when people take part and make rational decisions. Irish people I feel don't really have the necessary attitudes to have a strong democracy. We prefer to moan about things and blame others too much.

I'm thinking this means I'm both socially and economically left but I would be very much pro enterprise. I have no ideological hangups when it comes to problem solving. I do believe that in order to have civil liberty we must restrict the freedom of corporations to become too big or too influential, in much the same way as you must restrict a rapist from raping in order to protect the liberty of his would be victim. I think libertarians don't make that connection when they say everyone must be unrestricted once it doesn't harm anyone else. I think they fail to see the harm zero regulation and concentrated wealth accumulation does to society. I'll let Nesf suggest a box for me to tick in the poll.

You're almost the very definition of a centrist. Someone who takes the best from the left and the right and synthesises them. Or a bloody fence sitter, depending on one's perspective.

nesf

MysticalRain wrote: »

Centre left, or flaming liberal pinko commie by American standards.

Ahem, Centre Right, or flaming liberal pinko by American standards...

mickstupp

I know what I believe, what I agree/disagree with and why, but I have no idea what label I would fit under. Can someone tell me where I'd find out such a thing?

nesf

mickstupp wrote: »

I know what I believe, what I agree/disagree with and why, but I have no idea what label I would fit under. Can someone tell me where I'd find out such a thing?

The Political Compass test is one (controversial) way of figuring out whether you're left or right or liberal or conservative.

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

Dirk Gently

nesf wrote: »

You're almost the very definition of a centrist. )

you see that's what I thought but labelling myself centrist aligns me with the likes of labour / FF / FG which makes me shudder as I associate those parties with cronyism, auction politics and PR / optics. I also feel I'm more socially liberal and community orientated as opposed to individualism than the central tag allows for. My opposition to financial markets and conservatism / right wingism (yes I said wingism) is generally stronger than my opposition of leftist policies.

(I clicked centrist in the poll on your advice though) :pac:

nesf

Dirk Gently wrote: »

you see that's what I thought but labelling myself centrist aligns me with the likes of labour / FF / FG which makes me shudder as I associate those parties with cronyism, auction politics and PR / optics. I also feel I'm more socially liberal and community orientated as opposed to individualism than the central tag allows for. My opposition to financial markets and conservatism / right wingism (yes I said wingism) is generally stronger than my opposition of leftist policies.

(I clicked centrist in the poll on your advice though) :pac:

Nah there are centrists who hate FF/FG/Lab and their approach to politics. Just because someone is of a particular political persuasion doesn't mean they have to vote a certain way. Just in an ideal world they'd vote that way. e.g. if Labour became a proper fusion of left and right thinking and policies then you might be more inclined to vote for them etc.

Scofflaw

Dirk Gently wrote: »

you see that's what I thought but labelling myself centrist aligns me with the likes of labour / FF / FG which makes me shudder as I associate those parties with cronyism, auction politics and PR / optics. I also feel I'm more socially liberal and community orientated as opposed to individualism than the central tag allows for. My opposition to financial markets and conservatism / right wingism (yes I said wingism) is generally stronger than my opposition of leftist policies.

(I clicked centrist in the poll on your advice though) :pac:

That assumes one has to find an Irish party to fit, though. This can be fun to play around with: http://www.euprofiler.eu/

cordially,
Scofflaw

I'm still figuring out. If I was held a gunpoint I would say I'm a Socialist Libertarian. I believe in the power of the individual, small government, BUT I believe we still have to help those less fortunate.

I'll be honest, it's a hard one for my head to get around

murphaph

I picked centre right but not sure if that's what I am.

I believe in a fiscally conservative government (so no borrowing for anything except sound infrastructural projects that will benefit future generations) that balances its books.

I believe in social liberalism: to each his own basically.

I believe in proper government regulation of things which if not regulated can cause catastrophic problems for all. Banks being a case in point.

I believe in a social welfare system that catches people when they fall, but does not proceed to then carry them for the rest of their lives.

Not sure if that's centre right but it seemed the closest.

psychward

Scofflaw wrote: »

My bet is right-leaning with a decent showing of centre-left.

cordially,
Scofflaw

Lockstep wrote: »

My best is for right leaning with a decent array of centre-leftists and a disproportionate amount of libertarians.

People could just be saying they're socialist or lefty though as socialists can have have a ''nicer'' image similar to when Bertie claimed to be a socialist while handing healthcare over to the right wing PDs. How truthful do polls tend to be ?

Dirk Gently

Scofflaw wrote: »

That assumes one has to find an Irish party to fit, though. This can be fun to play around with: http://www.euprofiler.eu/

cordially,
Scofflaw

I'm mostly aligned with the swedish pirate party according to that link. Always saw myself more as a ninja.

Valmont

You missed one, Nesf: The pragmatist.

"I have no ideology. I don't view things as black and white like the ideologue. I simply support pragmatism and compromise and am bound by no need for consistency, only expediency. And who is best posed to implement this flexible and malleable non-system? Why, the State of course!

Eliot Rosewater

Scofflaw wrote: »

That assumes one has to find an Irish party to fit, though. This can be fun to play around with: http://www.euprofiler.eu/

cordially,
Scofflaw

I just did that and it put me as socio-economically centre-left, and highly pro-EU integration. I'm nearer to Labour than to anyone else! :eek: *jumps off cliff*



Probably to do with my hardcore pro-green tax answers which don't really reflect my general outlook...

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

Suryavarman

nesf wrote: »

The Political Compass test is one (controversial) way of figuring out whether you're left or right or liberal or conservative.

I find this quiz far better and much more accurate than the political compass quiz. I always seem to only get a center right somewhat socially liberal result with the political compass test.

Lockstep

Valmont wrote: »

You missed one, Nesf: The pragmatist.

"I have no ideology. I don't view things as black and white like the ideologue. I simply support pragmatism and compromise and am bound by no need for consistency, only expediency. And who is best posed to implement this flexible and malleable non-system? Why, the State of course!

Quite a few people would claim to be pragmatic/'what work' but the problem I always see with this is that EVERYONE sees their own ideology as a practical and feasibly ideology that would work. Whether you're a communist or a libertarian, you'll see your own ideology as common-sense. The problem is that nobody else will.

Benny_Cake

psychward wrote: »

People could just be saying they're socialist or lefty though as socialists can have have a ''nicer'' image similar to when Bertie claimed to be a socialist while handing healthcare over to the right wing PDs. How truthful do polls tend to be ?

Why though - nobody is likely to be running for election under their Boards.ie username!?

Oh_Noes

Dirk Gently wrote: »

I'm mostly aligned with the swedish pirate party according to that link. Always saw myself more as a ninja.

It puts me exactly in the same place as the Swedish Feminist Party.

I do like Swedish women...

Lockstep

Suryavarman wrote: »

I find this quiz far better and much more accurate than the political compass quiz. I always seem to only get a center right somewhat socially liberal result with the political compass test.

I got slightly neo-con, culturally liberal that is also a left-libertarian.

That assumes one has to find an Irish party to fit, though. This can be fun to play around with: http://www.euprofiler.eu/

cordially,
Scofflaw

I'm almost slap bang on Labour. Moderatly left wing and highly pro-integration.

murphaph

Oh_Noes wrote: »

It puts me exactly in the same place as the Swedish Feminist Party.

I do like Swedish women...

Warning:
Swedish feminist != Swedish woman