UCD track to close!!

donothoponpop

thirtyfoot wrote: »

Dublin has loads of, in the main, massively underused tracks.

You could hardly accuse UCD of being underused! To say nothing of the club athletes- joggers, walkers, casual runners, have-a-go triple jump heroes; could all use it (and did). It seemed to perform the catchment function that public tracks in every small town across Europe and the States perform.

Elite athletics should have their own international-standard on UCD campus (access only to those wearing spikes), but there's no reason they couldn't also keep Belfield for use by the public who funded it. There's a dearth of cinder tracks for common use.

thirtyfoot wrote: »

Wicklow have 1,015 per track

Case in point- I'm betting this statistic doesn't include the old cinder track behind Arklow shopping Centre. Free for anyone to use, dirt cheap to maintain, a stepping-stone into athletics for kids, (and a sometimes civilizing influence on local mountain-dwellers).

Fazz

mccarte2 wrote: »

Sorry to go over old ground, what are the 5 other tracks in Dublin? Irishtown, Santry and......?

Tallaght, Greystones and UCD I think.

shels4ever

Fazz wrote: »

Tallaght, Greystones and UCD I think.

ALSAA

EC1000

Fazz wrote: »

Tallaght, Greystones and UCD I think.

Is Greystones in Dublin now?!!!

(Not sure who would be more offended )

Fazz

EC1000 wrote: »

Is Greystones in Dublin now?!!!

(Not sure who would be more offended )

Sure.

In my world anyway, it's a damn sight closer than the airport so I'm counting it!
Ps that Alsaa one is a private gym I think so not sure it counts.

but yeah, Wicklow it is so!

thirtyfoot

Fazz wrote: »

Tallaght, Greystones and UCD I think.

Donore, not full but tartan and ALSAA, full 400 and tartan.

Pisco Sour

Bigger city I know, with a population of 4 million, but for comparison purposes here is a list of tracks in the metropolitan area of Melbourne:

http://www.athsvic.org.au/cache/WebFiles/805Victorian%20Track%20Listing%20-%2024-09-10.pdf

19 synthetic tracks, 4 ruberised tracks, and 2 "other" tracks. Granted the population is a bit over 3 times that of metropolitan Dublin, but even per capita there is no comparison between the 2 cities with regards facilities available.

And believe me athletics is very much a minority sport down here. The difference is that down here minority sports get good facilities and reasonable funding (though people will always complain it is not more). In Ireland, minority sports are left to rot so that we can pump more money into horseracing (a millionaires sport) and GAA (unknown outside of Ireland).

thirtyfoot

So before Belfield was gone Dublin had a pretty similar track to person ratio to Melbourne and even now we ain't that far behind. 19 for 4m vs 5 for 1.2m, we are spoilt. Not to mention the track in Lucan, could be others.

On the thought that Belfield was not underused, what evidence is there to suggest it wasn't. Taking membership of athletic clubs as the most reliable gauge of people requiring and using a track, Dublin is well serviced. My anecdotal evidence is that tracks are underused, based on going to them at all times of the day over the past 30 years. Power walkers with dogs don't count as users. I'd prefer even less tracks in Dublin if the best ones had even better facilities. Four will do, Santry, Irishtown, Tallaght, Donore. All areas covered. For example, one track on the Northside can handle two of the top track clubs in the country, the top University in the country, the top middle distance training group in the country and two of the top sprint groups in the country. That track takes a lot it seems yet outside of Tuesday and Thursday it's empty by and large.

If people want Belfield so that joggers and power walkers can use it, then I would disagree with that. If it was to be a track with full facilities, gym etc like Irishtown then that would make sense.

On tracks in Australia, ask Sharon Hannan about facilities, not all glowing I would imagine.

robinph

thirtyfoot wrote: »

Power walkers with dogs don't count as users.

Yeah they do. The dog doesn't though.

Ideally they would eventually learn to keep out of lane one with their mutts, but they do still count as users of the facility.

donothoponpop

thirtyfoot wrote: »

On the thought that Belfield was not underused, what evidence is there to suggest it wasn't. Taking membership of athletic clubs as the most reliable gauge of people requiring and using a track, Dublin is well serviced. My anecdotal evidence is that tracks are underused, based on going to them at all times of the day over the past 30 years. Power walkers with dogs don't count as users.

I've seen municipal tracks the world over used by non-AC runners, and Belfield would be the Dublin track of choice for most of the casual runners from here. It was very handy for a measured session, without feeling you were getting in the way of more serious athletes.

I appreciate this should be its secondary function though, and if you want to argue "use" statistics based on a tracks primary AC purpose thats your prerogative.

ecoli

I would have to agree with DP here. If you were to take AC only figures you would mostly have UCDAC which from my recollection has roughly 260 active members this year (the college team not the AAI affiliated club as many of these are members of other clubs) and DSD active members (not sure on the figure here) this is only a small representation of the number of people who use the track though still accounts for the track being used 5 of the seven days of the week (Monday through thursday and Saturdays AFAIK from both clubs training schedules)

After this even without the General public you still have the numerous schools which I have seen partaking in training during the day on this track from the local area. I know there is regular training for schools twice a week (though cant name the school) during the day which accounts for another 2 hours of use for the track

After this I have also recently learned that many Leinster school rugby teams also use this track for speed development type sessions to supplement their normal rugby training

And after this you then have the general public who use to jog a few laps

While I agree with you in terms of facilities in many cases being underused I think UCD as a facility was among the most used within all the tracks in Dublin (Santry may have slightly more traffic but i think their training times are a little more condensed and UCD to me anyway appeared to have a more steady stream of usage throughout the week especially given there are no gym facilities to supplement the usage)

thirtyfoot

donothoponpop wrote: »

I've seen municipal tracks the world over used by non-AC runners, and Belfield would be the Dublin track of choice for most of the casual runners from here. It was very handy for a measured session, without feeling you were getting in the way of more serious athletes.

Irishtown is municipal and quite close to Belfield. Is the 'free' nature of Belfield the attraction?


Right now, lets say Dublin Tracks get €1m to invest in their tracks. Where would people spend this. Belfield for nostalgic reasons or say a state of the art indoors arena in the sports fertile world of Tallaght. I'd go with Tallaght.

thirtyfoot

ecoli wrote: »

If you were to take AC only figures you would mostly have UCDAC which from my recollection has roughly 260 active members this year

Where are these active 260 members come April time when Varsities are on? DCU destroy the opposition annually on track with I'd estimate 40-50 active* members.

* Regularly train and then compete.

ecoli

thirtyfoot wrote: »

Irishtown is municipal and quite close to Belfield. Is the 'free' nature of Belfield the attraction?


Right now, lets say Dublin Tracks get €1m to invest in their tracks. Where would people spend this. Belfield for nostalgic reasons or say a state of the art indoors arena in the sports fertile world of Tallaght. I'd go with Tallaght.

So would I and if you were in charge I on behalf of TAC would thank you:D

However we are not talking about investment by AAI (who from what i gathered are keeping a wide berth from this ignoring all appeals made for support) or any other athletics body. This is about destroying something which is already there which is a symbol of promoting the sport and healthier lifestyle.

What happened if Irishtown was to be resurfaced now that Belfield is gone you would find the majority of south side clubswould be without a track. I know people give out bout the likes of Belfields track or even ALSAA but I seem to recall ALSAA being very handy for certain runners when Santry was being resurfaces (IIRC both O rourke and your own group;))

While not state of the art the track still supported a function and it doesnt have to be in top condition to do that. Just take a look at the track in Iten Belfield would be top class compared to it yet it doesnt mean that athletes still dont benefit from having it and help to produce World class athletes

The message coming from UCD is a very bad one as the athletics club which is one of the most successful clubs in the colleges history have been spat in the face by the administrators the very year they have started to see a resurgence.

RayCun

thirtyfoot wrote: »

Irishtown is municipal and quite close to Belfield. Is the 'free' nature of Belfield the attraction?

I'd say so. Would the rugby teams, local schools, and general runners use the track for speed sessions if they had to pay? They'd just use a field.

thirtyfoot wrote: »

Right now, lets say Dublin Tracks get €1m to invest in their tracks. Where would people spend this. Belfield for nostalgic reasons or say a state of the art indoors arena in the sports fertile world of Tallaght. I'd go with Tallaght.

But it shouldn't be up to 'Dublin Tracks' to provide sports facilities for UCD students, it should be up to the college. There are all-weather rugby/football/hockey pitches, tennis courts, a gym, and a sports science centre on the college grounds, and there is talk of a pool - there should be a track. Even if it is only free to students and everyone else who wants to use it has to pay.

donothoponpop

thirtyfoot wrote: »

Irishtown is municipal and quite close to Belfield. Is the 'free' nature of Belfield the attraction?


Right now, lets say Dublin Tracks get €1m to invest in their tracks. Where would people spend this. Belfield for nostalgic reasons or say a state of the art indoors arena in the sports fertile world of Tallaght. I'd go with Tallaght.

You should go into politics.

The relevant question is: lets say UCD want to close their track that has been used daily by runners from Olympians to joggers, and turn it into a carpark, without having broken ground on its distant-future replacement. Why should people whose taxes have funded this facility accept the dubious "health and safety" excuse used to dig trenches and close a useful facility?

macinalli

thirtyfoot wrote: »

Where are these active 260 members come April time when Varsities are on? DCU destroy the opposition annually on track with I'd estimate 40-50 active* members.

* Regularly train and then compete.

Success in a national championship isn't the only measure of a club (university or otherwise) and many would argue that it's not even the most appropriate. Competitions such as the varsities are won by the best, and in those situations athletics scholarships and other factors come in to play.

I'd be of the opinion that the best clubs are the ones that reach out to all of the running community and get people involved in improving themselves. If UCD AC get lots of young people out running, but still get beat by DCU, then so what?

thirtyfoot

ecoli wrote: »

So would I and if you were in charge I on behalf of TAC would thank you:D

However we are not talking about investment by AAI (who from what i gathered are keeping a wide berth from this ignoring all appeals made for support) or any other athletics body. This is about destroying something which is already there which is a symbol of promoting the sport and healthier lifestyle.

What happened if Irishtown was to be resurfaced now that Belfield is gone you would find the majority of south side clubswould be without a track. I know people give out bout the likes of Belfields track or even ALSAA but I seem to recall ALSAA being very handy for certain runners when Santry was being resurfaces (IIRC both O rourke and your own group;))

While not state of the art the track still supported a function and it doesnt have to be in top condition to do that. Just take a look at the track in Iten Belfield would be top class compared to it yet it doesnt mean that athletes still dont benefit from having it and help to produce World class athletes

The message coming from UCD is a very bad one as the athletics club which is one of the most successful clubs in the colleges history have been spat in the face by the administrators the very year they have started to see a resurgence.

Your points are valid and I am not saying its good UCD is closing. I'm saying there are suitable facilities elsewhere in the city which means closing UCD (from the servicing of athletics in Dublin perspective) is not as problematic as say the track in Limerick closed. Obviously more tracks are better but its a minority sport and we need to focus resources where you will get your best return. The way UCD have handled it is bad. Its bad for UCD but not too bad for anyone else aside from the memories and nostalgia (in the cold light of day).

Having Belfield (or ALSAA) as a backup for Irishtown is not a good enough reason to sustain it. By the way, Irishtown is in disrepair and requiring work, it may not be fit to host comps this season.

thirtyfoot

donothoponpop wrote: »

The relevant question is: lets say UCD want to close their track that has been used daily by runners from Olympians to joggers, and turn it into a carpark, without having broken ground on its distant-future replacement. Why should people whose taxes have funded this facility accept the dubious "health and safety" excuse used to dig trenches and close a useful facility?

Can't argue with that and I agree with you. Its bad for UCD and the locals who use it. It won't affect athletics too much in Dublin though.

Just to clarify, I think the closure is a disgrace.

plodder

Are GAA and soccer judged by the utilisation of each and every football pitch out there, because the vast majority of publicly maintained football pitches are under utilised, specially if you discount the joggers and power walkers. What would happen if UCD closed down all of their football pitches, or say TCD decided to build on the rugby and soccer pitches in college park? It wouldn't really have any effect on soccer, GAA or rugby nationally, But, there would be national uproar, and it wouldn't happen.

ecoli

thirtyfoot wrote: »

Where are these active 260 members come April time when Varsities are on? DCU destroy the opposition annually on track with I'd estimate 40-50 active* members.

* Regularly train and then compete.

Dont forget Intervarsities only allow 2 per event (and one on year down) so many of the ones in club are unable to compete as many train for the more popular events. Look at the road relays 4 UCD mens teams meaning 20 distance runners yet only 10 can compete in distance races on Track (800-10k + S/C)

You can easily have 100+ on any one night of traing for the club (between Sprinters, field eventers and distance)

ecoli

thirtyfoot wrote: »

Your points are valid and I am not saying its good UCD is closing. I'm saying there are suitable facilities elsewhere in the city which means closing UCD (from the servicing of athletics in Dublin perspective) is not as problematic as say the track in Limerick closed. Obviously more tracks are better but its a minority sport and we need to focus resources where you will get your best return. The way UCD have handled it is bad. Its bad for UCD but not too bad for anyone else aside from the memories and nostalgia (in the cold light of day).

Having Belfield (or ALSAA) as a backup for Irishtown is not a good enough reason to sustain it. By the way, Irishtown is in disrepair and requiring work, it may not be fit to host comps this season.

Sustaining is not the issue here as UCD have long since failed in terms of upkeep. This is simply more of a matter of leaving things be. As Coughlan mentioned it probably cost more to hire the digger for the day to dig the trenches than it would have to bring the track up to health and safety standards (Not competition standard but simply removal of the algae causing it to be slippy). It was actively going out of there way to put the track beyond use rather than leaving it where it is until a plan was even put in place for what to do with the land

ecoli

Brian Mullins apparently being interviewed at 7 on Rte Radio 1 about the closure of the track

badtinegirl

Todays Independent



UCD has apologised for the way it handled the shock closure of its historic Belfield track last week and has put together a task-force to deliver a replacement as quickly as possible.
Athletes were confused and furious when diggers suddenly moved in last week, with no forewarning whatsoever given to the many clubs, schools and athletes, including several Olympians, who used the facility.
"We had a report that indicated we were taking a (safety) chance every day we left it open, but we did not communicate this very well to our students and other athletics people and I apologise openly for that," said UCD's director of sport Brian Mullins.
One of the most vehement critics of the sudden closure was Senator Eamonn Coghlan and he is among those whom UCD have now enlisted to serve on a task-force to fast-track a replacement facility on the other side of the Belfield campus.
disrepair
Mullins admitted that the track was allowed to go into disrepair because the campus layout has changed dramatically in recent years and all of the university's newer sports facilities have deliberately been grouped at the Clonskeagh end of the extensive grounds.
"Apart from a few remaining soccer pitches the track was the last remaining outpost and it was decided not to invest in repairing hard-earned money into something that was going to be shifted in due course," he said.
UCD has had planning permission for a track near its sports centre at Clonskeagh since 2009, but those plans were then hit by the recession.
Mullins said: "We're quite positive now that we will get commitment for the funding soon and will move to deliver a replacement track as quickly as possible."
McMahon Texaco Young Sportstar of the Year
World Championship breaststroke semi-finalist Sycerika McMahon has been chosen as the winner of the 2011 Texaco Young Sportstar of the Year award.
Although there was no reward for her in the form of medals, the World Championships in Shanghai this year proved an inspiration for the 16-year-old Leander girl.
Alongside the eight senior sports stars chosen to receive Texaco Sportstars Awards and the 2011 Hall of Fame winner, McMahon will be presented with her trophy at the awards ceremony, which takes place in Dublin next week.
- Cliona Foley





HMMMMMMM.

Why did it take all this fuss to get Brian off his arse and sort the funding for the track?

How long did he sit on the report putting people at risk?

What about the field sports Brian?

Bull****

smunchkins

With regards the discussion on usage and the casual user, I signed up for the UCD Bootcamp last year, where the majority of activities were outside.

We used the track for our runs, and this course was aimed at regular sports people who wished to do a bit more, not the regular athlete.

So the track was being used to promote sport and activity outside of the athletics arena, which I can only applaud. (Despite being a distance runner I'd always been shy of running on it before)

In fact it seemed a lot easier to work on than the very wet and slippy hockey pitches we had to use for the sergeant's call in the mornings.

I agree that it has become a bit of a victim of location, in that it would probably have gotten a higher profile and been appreciated more if it wasn't so far away from everything else. Am really hoping the new track comes through though, as that is my end of the campus.

Does anyone know how long it takes to build? Is it like astroturfs where they have to let it settle for a year or anything?

ecoli

smunchkins wrote: »

Does anyone know how long it takes to build? Is it like astroturfs where they have to let it settle for a year or anything?

From what I remember when we were laying our track you need good weather (ie relatively dry) to lay the actual tartan meaning that funding will need to be secured fairly quickly and work to begin in summer/ early autumn ideally to insure this. If not I think it would need to be pushed out to late spring early summer of 2013. Again not hundred per cent I just remember this being cited as an issue for delay of another Tartan track

electrictrad

UCD has apologised for the way it handled the shock closure of its historic Belfield track last week and has put together a task-force to deliver a replacement as quickly as possible.
Athletes were confused and furious when diggers suddenly moved in last week, with no forewarning whatsoever given to the many clubs, schools and athletes, including several Olympians, who used the facility.
"We had a report that indicated we were taking a (safety) chance every day we left it open, but we did not communicate this very well to our students and other athletics people and I apologise openly for that," said UCD's director of sport Brian Mullins.
One of the most vehement critics of the sudden closure was Senator Eamonn Coghlan and he is among those whom UCD have now enlisted to serve on a task-force to fast-track a replacement facility on the other side of the Belfield campus.
disrepair
Mullins admitted that the track was allowed to go into disrepair because the campus layout has changed dramatically in recent years and all of the university's newer sports facilities have deliberately been grouped at the Clonskeagh end of the extensive grounds.
"Apart from a few remaining soccer pitches the track was the last remaining outpost and it was decided not to invest in repairing hard-earned money into something that was going to be shifted in due course," he said.
UCD has had planning permission for a track near its sports centre at Clonskeagh since 2009, but those plans were then hit by the recession.
Mullins said: "We're quite positive now that we will get commitment for the funding soon and will move to deliver a replacement track as quickly as possible."
McMahon Texaco Young Sportstar of the Year

Mullins told UCD AC he hadn't seen the report on Monday, that UCD Buildings and Services took the decision to close the track, and that he was powerless in the whole process. . . big dichotomy between that and the content of that radio interview. . .

robinph

The track in Dehli was only laid a week or so before holding a major championship and the one in Athens was a bit last minute as well I seem to remember.

badtinegirl

Brians Mullins just a patsy!!!! Buildings and Service???? Would they need space for a new car park I wonder.

Whos in charge of Buildings and Services? Thats the person who needs to
explain to us and the wider community whats happening.

This whole thing stinks more and more.

thirtyfoot

robinph wrote: »

The track in Dehli was only laid a week or so before holding a major championship and the one in Athens was a bit last minute as well I seem to remember.

Weather is the key factor in laying a track. It needs to stay dry. Easier for that in places like India or Greece.