More great news for Knock airport

http://www.rte.ie/news/2011/1121/ryanair-business.html

Four new routes added today Milan, Barcelona, Paris, and Frankfurt. That makes 14 international destinations from knock with just Ryanair alone. I think 29 in total.

Should mean a tourist boost as well. With the airport the only one in Ireland making a profit and expanding while getting a fraction of the funding that the state run daa airports gets, it has to be congratulated :)

It also means no three - four journey on shockingly dangerous neglected roads to get to Dublin airport to have the privlidge of paying inflated car parking charges and long lines.

runway16

Deleted User wrote: »

http://www.rte.ie/news/2011/1121/ryanair-business.html

Four new routes added today Milan, Barcelona, Paris, and Frankfurt. That makes 14 international destinations from knock with just Ryanair alone. I think 29 in total.

Should mean a tourist boost as well. With the airport the only one in Ireland making a profit and expanding while getting a fraction of the funding that the state run daa airports gets, it has to be congratulated :)

It also means no three - four journey on shockingly dangerous neglected roads to get to Dublin airport to have the privlidge of paying inflated car parking charges and long lines.

The DAA airports get NO government funding - they are reliant on charges, revenues and debts to finance anything. There is zero exchequer funding - in fact, Knock gets more government funding! (I know, it's not very much)

Also, Dublin is making a profit. Shannon and Cork are not. The DAA made a profit of 30 million last year.

That's not meant to "knock" knock airport's performance - they are doing really well, with limited resources, and long may it last.

Sponge Bob

Be warned that Knock Airport will levy you an extra hidden charge when you attempt to get on your flight. You must pay in the terminal or they will not let you board the flight despite the fact that you paid airport charges when you booked the flight.

This hidden charge is a disgrace. As well as the hidden per person charge they also charge around 30% more than Shannon does for parking.

veryangryman

The alternative bus/train to Dublin is still more expensive and time consuming for most Connacht natives.

Many airports around the world have this. Newquay in England one such example

L1011

veryangryman wrote: »

Many airports around the world have this. Newquay in England one such example

Most airports with it let the airline collect it for you, e.g. Waterford. It is NOT normal to insist the passenger pays it in cash in the terminal.

The OP clearly has flown from Dublin any time recently if he thinks there are "long lines", even when I had to slum it in T1 recently, I was through the new security area in minutes. If it hadn't been certain X Factor presenter in front of me in the queue I'd have been through even quicker...

MYOB

MYOB wrote: »

Most airports with it let the airline collect it for you, e.g. Waterford. It is NOT normal to insist the passenger pays it in cash in the terminal.

The OP clearly has flown from Dublin any time recently if he thinks there are "long lines", even when I had to slum it in T1 recently, I was through the new security area in minutes. If it hadn't been certain X Factor presenter in front of me in the queue I'd have been through even quicker...

The far east, india, central america most smaller airports have it and collect it at the gate, just called a departure tax. 25$ is the most i have paid so far though.

The airport needs to get funds to expand from somewhere there is no DAA to tap into. Local people collected and funded alot of what is already there. But You'll will always have the 1% that prefer to travel 100 miles in there car to save €10:rolleyes: Hopefully the ever expanding clientele that do use the airport will help to fund further development needed.

Unfortunately for them they are missing out on some of the cheapest ryanair flights out of the country.:p

L1011

Deleted User wrote: »

The far east, india, central america most smaller airports have it and collect it at the gate, just called a departure tax. 25$ is the most i have paid so far though.

I've never been asked for it at-gate ANYWHERE else in the world.

Deleted User wrote: »

The airport needs to get funds to expand from somewhere there is no DAA to tap into.

So charge profitable fees to airlines, then.

veryangryman

MYOB wrote: »

Most airports with it let the airline collect it for you, e.g. Waterford. It is NOT normal to insist the passenger pays it in cash in the terminal.

The OP clearly has flown from Dublin any time recently if he thinks there are "long lines", even when I had to slum it in T1 recently, I was through the new security area in minutes. If it hadn't been certain X Factor presenter in front of me in the queue I'd have been through even quicker...

I meant to add in my post that

1) I dont agree with the hidden charge (in any airport)
2) It should be advertised. If the airlines have to mention their charges upfront, then same should happen with the airports

That said, an airport as successful as Knock in such a sparsely populated area is a great story. People are clearly reusing it in spite of the above cowboy practice

crushproof

MYOB wrote: »

I've never been asked for it at-gate ANYWHERE else in the world.

I have, in plenty of airports, Havana and some others in the Americas.

ClareVisitor

The departure tax is a disgrace. If it was advertised that would be one thing, but it isn't.

Great that Knock is expanding, but beware a reliance on Ryanair. Once they have the airport relying on them then they'll put the squeeze on for reduced charges and pull out if they don't get their way. Shannon is the perfect example and there are plenty more on the continent.

veryangryman

ClareVisitor wrote: »

The departure tax is a disgrace. If it was advertised that would be one thing, but it isn't.

Great that Knock is expanding, but beware a reliance on Ryanair. Once they have the airport relying on them then they'll put the squeeze on for reduced charges and pull out if they don't get their way. Shannon is the perfect example and there are plenty more on the continent.

Alas beggars cant be choosers. Still they have a few other airlines, EI have a decent presence there so theyre not completely stuck.

I say fair play to the place. A real example of success in hard times

Neworder79

veryangryman wrote: »

ClareVisitor wrote: »

The departure tax is a disgrace. If it was advertised that would be one thing, but it isn't.

It's on the airport website homepage, with an explanatory section on what it's spent on. It's on the entrance to departures with 3 large explanatory posters.



Aer lingus display it prominantly at the top of the booking page.

FlyBe also display it on top of booking form.

Bmibaby have a notice at the bottom of the airport page.



Ryanair used to have it on top but lost the message when the website was upgraded.

I agree it should be advertised and shouldn't be a surprise, especially for inbound tourists. But even with the fee most flights are still very cheap out of NOC. If the airline put it on the ticket price you still pay the same, just wouldn't notice it.

But were it not for the fee I doubt we'd be talking about flights from Knock at all. It's this self financing model that allows low airline fees and attracts in new routes. It also part finances infrastructure upgrades, and you don't need to look too far to see what happens airports solely dependant on taxpayer subsidy to cover operating costs.

L1011

crushproof wrote: »

I have, in plenty of airports, Havana and some others in the Americas.

This isn't a banana republic or communist state desperate to extract as much foreign currency as humanly possible (albeit we're not far off it.)

Sponge Bob

It should be included in the ticket price.

I won't be flying out of there in a hurry when I can get to DUBLIN AIRPORT FROM GALWAY for the price of the headage charge in Knock Airport ..and I get free parking in Galway too. There is no decent bus service to Knock from Galway so taking the bus is not an option unless you fancy hitching home from Knock late at night.

That and flights are generally cheaper to/from Dublin.

The scam fee is not shown on the flight info page

http://www.irelandwestairport.com/flightinformation/flightinformation.aspx

Or the home page ...arra sure why would you.

http://www.irelandwestairport.com/

In fact you gotta dig for it. It is shown here.

http://www.irelandwestairport.com/airportguide/airportdevelopmentfee.aspx

Neworder79

Sponge Bob wrote: »

It should be included in the ticket price.
...
Or the home page ...arra sure why would you.

It is on the homepage as I have already pointed out (see screengrab). And on most airline sites. If you want to believe you are being "scammed" and find Dublin easier fair enough.

But you don't have to begruge other western flyers who think Knock offer a good service and are happy to still have an airport still operating in the region.

Sponge Bob

Sponge Bob wrote: »

It should be included in the ticket price.

I won't be flying out of there in a hurry when I can get to DUBLIN AIRPORT FROM GALWAY for the price of the headage charge in Knock Airport ..and I get free parking in Galway too. There is no decent bus service to Knock from Galway so taking the bus is not an option unless you fancy hitching home from Knock late at night.

That and flights are generally cheaper to/from Dublin.

The scam fee is not shown on the flight info page

http://www.irelandwestairport.com/flightinformation/flightinformation.aspx

Or the home page ...arra sure why would you.

http://www.irelandwestairport.com/

In fact you gotta dig for it. It is shown here.

http://www.irelandwestairport.com/airportguide/airportdevelopmentfee.aspx

Odd that its such a terrible airport yet its expanding year on year. :rolleyes: It appears most don't have a problem with it and are delighted to be using it, even galway people!!. You cannot expect to get the same service you do in Dublin on your door step without paying extra for it.

That attitude probably also explains why Galway airport will be used as a cattle shed in the future instead of an airport.:D But the good thing about that is it should mean more routes and revenue for Knock airport.

L1011

Deleted User wrote: »

But the good thing about that is it should mean more routes and revenue for Knock airport.

Galway didn't have any routes worth taking.

And its problems stem from not being able to take jets, rather than anything else.

kopbill78

Sponge Bob wrote: »

Be warned that Knock Airport will levy you an extra hidden charge when you attempt to get on your flight. You must pay in the terminal or they will not let you board the flight despite the fact that you paid airport charges when you booked the flight.

This hidden charge is a disgrace. As well as the hidden per person charge they also charge around 30% more than Shannon does for parking.

Spongebob your clearly a begrudger of the highest order and you call urself a man from the West when ur agenda is to promtoe Dublin? The dev fee charge ic clearly stated on homepage of their site and is prominent in all areas of the airport. Also your comment on car park charges is wholely inaccurate as Shannons charges are 35% Higher than Knock they charge €47.50 for a week where Knock is €35.....its s a shame people like you dont want to see tourism developed in the West

Sponge Bob

kopbill78 wrote: »

The dev fee charge ic clearly stated on homepage of their site and is prominent in all areas of the airport.

Not visible on home page, bloody unavoidable in the airport itself.

Also your comment on car park charges is wholely inaccurate as Shannons charges are 35% Higher than Knock they charge €47.50 for a week where Knock is €35.....its s a shame people like you dont want to see tourism developed in the West

Return bus Galway - Dublin with free wifi is €20. Sorry about that.

I am one of the biggest critics of Galway Airports so called 'business model' on Boards and it was inevitable that it would end up as it did once the motorway was built.

Knock needs to get serious on bus access from Galway and needs to ensure a no less than 2 hourly service with the first bus leaving Galway no later than 4am and the last bus coming in at 2am. Do that and you run the chance of gaining traction. We have that level of service to Dublin.

And for Gods sake put the headage charge in with the other charges at booking. Taxing tourists to leave Mayo leaves a really bad taste in peoples mouths!!!!

LXFlyer

Sponge Bob wrote: »

Not visible on home page, bloody unavoidable in the airport itself.

Return bus Galway - Dublin with free wifi is €20. Sorry about that.

I am one of the biggest critics of Galway Airports so called 'business model' on Boards and it was inevitable that it would end up as it did once the motorway was built.

Knock needs to get serious on bus access from Galway and needs to ensure a no less than 2 hourly service with the first bus leaving Galway no later than 4am and the last bus coming in at 2am. Do that and you run the chance of gaining traction. We have that level of service to Dublin.

And for Gods sake put the headage charge in with the other charges at booking. Taxing tourists to leave Mayo leaves a really bad taste in peoples mouths!!!!

Why do you need buses leaving Galway at 4am and arriving there at 2am? There are no flights that early or late at Knock.

As it is there is are already bus connections to/from Galway that will allow you to use every departure/arrival at Knock Airport.

Buses to Knock Airport leave Galway in time for the first flight from the airport. There are buses from Galway at 0600, 0845, 1030, 1200, 1410 and 1600. These provide a connection to every departing flight. There are return services from Knock Airport at 0855, 1055, 1250, 1450 and 1655, which provide a connection out of every arriving flight.

But sure why let that fact get in the way of a good rant?

L1011

lxflyer wrote: »

There are buses from Galway at 0600, 0845, 1030, 1200, 1410 and 1600. These provide a connection to every departing flight. There are return services from Knock Airport at 0855, 1055, 1250, 1450 and 1655, which provide a connection out of every arriving flight.

No flights arrive or land after 4:30ish? Rather a waste of money on ALS/ILS in that case...

LXFlyer

MYOB wrote: »

No flights arrive or land after 4:30ish? Rather a waste of money on ALS/ILS in that case...

Not in the current timetable no.

Flights are at:

Arrive Depart
Days Destination Knock Knock
M London Stansted 08:10 08:35
Sa Liverpool 09:10 09:35
W East Midlands 10:40 11:05
Daily London Luton 11:00 11:25
W Tenerife 11:00 11:25
Th Lanzarote 11:30 11:55
MWF Manchester 11:30 11:55
MWF Birmingham 11:55 12:25
F East Midlands 12:15 12:40
Tu Edinburgh 12:15 12:40
Su Manchester 12:25 12:50
Su East Midlands 12:50 13:15
WThFSaSu London Stansted 13:00 13:25
Tu London Stansted 13:25 13:50
We Liverpool 14:00 14:25
Su Birmingham 14:20 14:45
Daily London Gatwick 15:05 15:45
MFSu Liverpool 15:20 15:45
Su Edinburgh 15:20 15:45
TuTh Liverpool 15:35 16:00
F Edinburgh 15:35 16:00

Sponge Bob

Humm, impossible to fly in, do a days business in the west and fly out in one day! Tourist tiimetable only. That timetable is evidently for a regime where no aircraft is actually based in Knock. The airport will be in use from 7am to 1am if one is based there.

LXFlyer

Sponge Bob wrote: »

Humm, impossible to fly in, do a days business in the west and fly out in one day! Tourist tiimetable only. That timetable is evidently for a regime where no aircraft is actually based in Knock. The airport will be in use from 7am to 1am if one is based there.

Something that was very easy to check using the airport website but obviously you didn't bother!

There isn't an aircraft based there, nor will there be an aircraft based there next summer - Ryanair will be serving it using aircraft from the other bases. It makes your statement that the bus timetable needs to be beefed up somewhat daft where it is patently more than adequate.

Incidentally there is a notice on the front page regarding the €10 fee. It is below the advert for flybe's new route to Manchester (I don't disagree with you regarding the manner it is collected) but I think you ought to acknowledge that you are wrong!!!

Sponge Bob

lxflyer wrote: »

There isn't an aircraft based there, nor will there be an aircraft based there next summer - Ryanair will be serving it using aircraft from the other bases. It makes your statement that the bus timetable needs to be beefed up somewhat daft where it is patently more than adequate.

It is an adequate bus service if no aircraft is based there, I assumed that had changed. Of course I cannot get out and back to Knock in a day either whereas I can Shannon <> London and ex Dublin. But it should be OK for tourists in either direction.

Incidentally there is a notice on the front page regarding the €10 fee. It is below the advert for flybe's new route to Manchester (I don't disagree with you regarding the manner it is collected) but I think you ought to acknowledge that you are wrong!!!

Found it, you first of all have to wait a few seconds for a banner graphic about "Important Information" to rotate and even then it is in small print. Not very clear and you could easily not see it.

Nor is it clear that you have NOT paid it and so you click on the link itself. Even then it sounds like a justification for the taxes and fees you know you already paid for along with your ticket. It leads here.

http://www.irelandwestairport.com/airportguide/airportdevelopmentfee.aspx

Then you are asked to click on this link below where they still don't explain it

http://www.irelandwestairport.com/airportguide/airportfees.aspx

There is a pdf linked there that finally confesses but the line "For full details and FAQ’s on the Development Fee, please click here" sends you back to the former links which does not contain "full details" of the headage charge.

It should be clear in that page that Ryanair do not collect this headage charge for the airport and that you are fully liable upon entering the terminal to check in.

The same recent carry on with headage charges very effectively killed off demand in Galway Airport, people just don't like hidden charges.

the business knock gets from Galway will disappear once the Tuam-Gort section of the M18 gets built. Once thats done I know which airport I'd rather drive to

Sponge Bob

Not really Dacor, the big problem that Knock and Shannon both have is that Galway people are quite happy to take an Express bus to Dublin Airport in 2.5 hours at night or 3 hours daytime. Seeing as both Airports have the same problem there is a strong argument for both airports to team up to develop a high frequency Knock - Galway - Shannon express bus shuttle service that does the run in a predictable and reasonable time at a flat rate price.

Galway Shannon on an "Express" takes nearly 2 hours see




The express bus to Knock takes as much as 1 hour 40 minutes ...see here and costs MORE than going to Dublin if you get an open monthly return.

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

the business knock gets from Galway will disappear once the Tuam-Gort section of the M18 gets built. Once thats done I know which airport I'd rather drive to

Yip your right Knock will be even closer to Galway people and the shannon region;)

joey12

Ya also gotta look at what services Knock and Shannon both offer now, if there were no TA services from Shannon the place would be a lot different. I see Paris is now gone from Shannon now, in fact very few continental Europe destinations.

The whole thing with the Knock opening times is that they want to remain profitable so it is difficult to justify opening the airport at 6am and pay for staff for one flight and wait for the next in a couple of hours. Perhaps in the near future there will be an early London flight permitting a day return.

With regards the development charge, knock has changed dramatically over the last 4years so I assume the money has gone into the infrastructure not to mention pay the staff up there, a lot of staff is needed to run an airport.

runway16

joey12 wrote: »

Ya also gotta look at what services Knock and Shannon both offer now, if there were no TA services from Shannon the place would be a lot different. I see Paris is now gone from Shannon now, in fact very few continental Europe destinations.

The whole thing with the Knock opening times is that they want to remain profitable so it is difficult to justify opening the airport at 6am and pay for staff for one flight and wait for the next in a couple of hours. Perhaps in the near future there will be an early London flight permitting a day return.

With regards the development charge, knock has changed dramatically over the last 4years so I assume the money has gone into the infrastructure not to mention pay the staff up there, a lot of staff is needed to run an airport.

Indeed.

Look, every airport has a "development charge". It is usually collected as part of your air ticket as one of the taxes and charges you pay.

Ryanair would love to do away with that system because those taxes and charges make their fares seem more expensive. They have done their best with a "bad situation" though by overcharging for the taxes (for example, they charge you 36 euro taxes from Dublin - the airport's actual charge is around a tenner).

Knock's model suits Ryanair down to the ground. They dont have to include Knock's airport charge on the ticket, which means they can advertise a lower headline fare. But you still end up paying at the airport, sometimes unknown to you prior to this.

Shannon was looking at doing the same last year, but faced severe opposition.

So, Knock is not unfairly charging anyone, (you pay it one way or the other) it is just that the form of collection is an annoyance to the customer, but seen as a positive by the airline as it helps in keeping the perception of low fares.

At the end of the day, blame Ryanair for the situation. It was they who refused to allow the charge be added to the cost of the ticket as is done everywhere else.

opinion guy

MYOB wrote: »

This isn't a banana republic or communist state desperate to extract as much foreign currency as humanly possible (albeit we're not far off it.)

It so is a banana republic desperate to extract as much foreign currency as humanly possible....or aren't you paying attention ?


Vancouver charges a departure tax as does Bangkok so add them to the list

IsaacWunder

This €10 charge is a shakedown.

Is it any wonder O'Leary's a fan of it?

Shame on Knock Airport :mad:

runway16

As explained in my previous post EVERY airport has a departure tax - it is just charged either a) as part of your ticket under "taxes and fees" b) as a seperate charge you pay at the airport.

As I said, Ryanair like method B, because your ticket then seems cheaper. In fact they threw their toys out of the pram when Knock tried to add this fee onto ticket prices. Hence, you have to pay this charge on departure.

Sponge Bob

Problem is you pay Ryanair precisely €0 airport charges (taxes and fees) out of Knock according to the Ryanair website and then you get mugged for supplementary charges by the airport itself.

All charges should be DISCLOSED and COMPLETE and UPFRONT....ie along with the ticket on purchase.

joey12

Well I'm more than happy to pay it, the airport is a great asset to have here in the west. Why can't people just be grateful we an airport that is growing in the west and not die a death like Galway has. Knock has done extremely well for itself, it doesn't have the lobby Shannon has.

The departure fee has been in place for more than ten years, the way it comes across here is than its something new...Galway introduced a fee very recently too.

On a side note when knock did introduce it back in 2000 I think...Ryanair did threaten to pull (or maybe they planned on it) then knock turned around and said "well that's ok we have a replacement carrier in the form of Virgin Express" they're minds soon changed.

Masala

On a side note when knock did introduce it back in 2000 I think...Ryanair did threaten to pull (or maybe they planned on it) then knock turned around and said "well that's ok we have a replacement carrier in the form of Virgin Express" they're minds soon changed.

...Joey... find that hard to believe!!!

LXFlyer

Sponge Bob wrote: »

Problem is you pay Ryanair precisely €0 airport charges (taxes and fees) out of Knock according to the Ryanair website and then you get mugged for supplementary charges by the airport itself.

All charges should be DISCLOSED and COMPLETE and UPFRONT....ie along with the ticket on purchase.

As per the post above Ryanair did but stopped disclosing it when they upgraded their website - perhaps your beef should really be with them for not doing so?

joey12

heres a news article from back in the day

http://www.independent.ie/business/virgin-set-to-appear-at-knock-521798.html

Masala

Joey.....

I tip my hat to you and profusely apologise for questioning you!!! Time hasn't been good to me on the memory front!!! 1999 is a distant memory!!

Masala

dowlingm

opinion guy wrote: »

Vancouver charges a departure tax as does Bangkok so add them to the list

YVR must have got rid of it before the Olympics because they don't separately charge now.

joey12

Masala, just popped into my head to be honest google has all the answers...
But stn-noc was one of ryanair's very lucrative routes when the 800s came on boards knock got them very early on. Obvious I'd imagine things have change with lon-noc market with all the competition now.

I hear the guys in noc are getting 4 million for some infrastructure work maybe that will include the apron extension.

runway16

joey12 wrote: »

Well I'm more than happy to pay it, the airport is a great asset to have here in the west. Why can't people just be grateful we an airport that is growing in the west and not die a death like Galway has. Knock has done extremely well for itself, it doesn't have the lobby Shannon has.

The departure fee has been in place for more than ten years, the way it comes across here is than its something new...Galway introduced a fee very recently too.

On a side note when knock did introduce it back in 2000 I think...Ryanair did threaten to pull (or maybe they planned on it) then knock turned around and said "well that's ok we have a replacement carrier in the form of Virgin Express" they're minds soon changed.

Ryanair were certainly not scared of Virgin Express. They demolished them at Shannon and could have done the same at Knock.

Knock proposed to collect as part of the cost of the ticket. Ryanair objected. So you have the method of collection we have today.

AngryLips

Sponge Bob wrote: »

Humm, impossible to fly in, do a days business in the west and fly out in one day! Tourist tiimetable only. That timetable is evidently for a regime where no aircraft is actually based in Knock. The airport will be in use from 7am to 1am if one is based there.

In fairness, tourism is the biggest business in that part of the country

highlydebased

AngryLips wrote: »

In fairness, tourism is the biggest business in that part of the country

Doesn't mean that should be at the expense of those wanting to do business....

runway16

If there are more tourists than business people, then clearly this is what's going to happen.

The capacity will follow the demand. Those in business should know that.

joey12

So by the looks of things the European routes are being pulled a month earlier as well as Leeds. Have this flights been a flop for the airport? Certainly doesn't look very promising for next year.

The winter will be very quiet now with BMIbaby gone.

JupiterKid

This thread seems to be one giant pimping out of Knock Airport.:rolleyes:

I'm sure Knock will keep its head above water but IMO the main airport serving the west is and should continue to be Shannon.

Shannon is located between Galway and Limerick - the two largest urban centres in the West and Shannon also has the capacity for growth in terms of its runway infrastructure, terminal facilities (although the airport could do with a rebuilt pier area) and transport system.

I see Knock as a regional/provincial airport with some important cross channel (to UK) and European routes but Shannon as an truly international one.

Shannon really needs to be doing more to attract new aviation routes and business.

bk

To be honest given the size of Ireland there really should be only one long distance (Transatlantic, Middle East, etc.) airport in Ireland and obviously that is Dublin.

Specially now that Dublin Airport is within three hours of every city in Ireland. In the US, a state (often much larger area then Ireland) will only have one major airport, never mind an international one.

Cork, Shannon, Knock, etc. are all short distance (UK, Europe) airports.

L1011

bk wrote: »

. In the US, a state (often much larger area then Ireland) will only have one major airport, never mind an international one.

They will usually, however, have regional jets pouring in from every corner of the state to feed traffic to it.

Which could work here but would be reliant on the regional airports not actively seeking their own routes.

coolperson05

Shannon is still a gateway to the West for US traffic and some people in the US, my relatives included, prefer to land in Shannon and immediately experience what they see as 'Ireland'...hills in Galway, pubs in Kerry...not the M50 or Terminal 2 :cool:

yer man!

I prefer to fly from Shannon when I can, I live in Galway, it's like 50 mins from my house by car and is a much easier airport to navigate compared to Dublin. Travelling to dublin can be quite expensive also when you factor in tolls and fuel and the 2 hours driving on a really boring road.