Dole could be hit now too by €8 a week

A DOLE cut of €8 a week is being considered in a desperate attempt to bridge the Budget deficit.

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/budget/will-budget-take-euro8-off-dole-or-euro10-off-child-benefit-2940517.html

It just gets worse.

Max Power1

Good IMO.

They cant introduce tax (stealth or direct) increases without a corresponding dole cut.

Otherwise it will not be worth while working anymore for a large amount of people that are borderline currently.

Tora Bora

hellboy99 wrote: »

A DOLE cut of €8 a week is being considered in a desperate attempt to bridge the Budget deficit.

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/budget/will-budget-take-euro8-off-dole-or-euro10-off-child-benefit-2940517.html

It just gets worse.

You mean it's getting better.

Sleepy

A good start imo.

DrumSteve

Yay lets attack the poor people.

Bit of a bull**** move of the governments part. Perhaps rather than cutting it they should actually make it harder to get? That means people who genuinely deserve it will get the full amount.

munchkin_utd

Sleepy wrote: »

A good start imo.

too little, imo

with your rent pretty much paid for by rent allowance, the guts of 800 euro a month after tax for day to day expenses is more than a lot of working people on decent money will see.

In Germany (to compare ireland with as an instructive example, and incidentaly the source of the spondoolies which pay Irelands generous dole and other social welfare payments) its 370 a month cash in hand for long term dole recipients.
Barely enough for a comfortable life, BUT is living off the state supposed to be cushy and enjoyable and afford a similar standard of living to working ?

phasers

Completely reasonable imo, although I hope people getting the €100 dole won't see a cut.

20Cent

There better be some wealth taxes and action against tax fugitives in this budget or people will go ballistic.

Sacred_git

munchkin_utd wrote: »

too little, imo

with your rent pretty much paid for by rent allowance, the guts of 800 euro a month after tax for day to day expenses is more than a lot of working people on decent money will see.

In Germany (to compare ireland with as an instructive example, and incidentaly the source of the spondoolies which pay Irelands generous dole and other social welfare payments) its 370 a month cash in hand for long term dole recipients.
Barely enough for a comfortable life, BUT is living off the state supposed to be cushy and enjoyable and afford a similar standard of living to working ?

germany is a whole lot cheaper - cost of living!! My bro was recently made redundant, 4 kids and a mortgage, life aint easy for him, this wont help! Think before you type mate!

RichardAnd

Sacred_git wrote: »

Think before you type mate!

A rare boon around here, sadly

Max Power1

Max Power1 wrote: »

Good IMO.

They cant introduce tax (stealth or direct) increases without a corresponding dole cut.

Otherwise it will not be worth while working anymore for a large amount of people that are borderline currently.

That would be ok if the cost of living was lower here and not going up.

kraggy

Cannot understand why we still don't have a gradual reduction system in place.

People on the Unemployment Assistance since the mid 2000's or earlier should not be on the same money as someone who just lost their job.

It's scandalous.

Relating to the topic at hand directly, it should be decreased by more than 8 euro. 180 is still way too high. The UK's is well less than 100 pounds. The cost of living being more in some places over there.

pmct

Just to let people who have jobs know if they cut the dole which they said they wouldn't then they WILL raise income tax which they said they wouldn't so it might be easy to say feck them let them starve it will be ye next

munchkin_utd

kraggy wrote: »

Cannot understand why we still don't have a gradual reduction system in place.

People on the Unemployment Assistance since the mid 2000's or earlier should not be on the same money as someone who just lost their job.

Yup,
another feature of systems abroad is that they are savage generous at the begining, and almost punative later to those on the long term dole.
eg. Germany gives 66% of your wages for the first year, scandavia even higher (so mortgages etc can be paid till you get a job )- but after the year you are meanstested to get anything at all and when you do qualify its nothing like as generous as what you get in Ireland.

The dole should be a safety net, not a feather down mattress

I'd not be against the dole being raised for people in the first months of unemployment, but there does come a time that you have to live within your (non existant ) means.

miju

good IMO and it should be more of a cut than €8 a week and rent allowance in particular should be hammered to remove the articifical floor it has given to rent prices in the country

giant_midget

kraggy wrote: »

Cannot understand why we still don't have a gradual reduction system in place.

People on the Unemployment Assistance since the mid 2000's or earlier should not be on the same money as someone who just lost their job.

It's scandalous.

Relating to the topic at hand directly, it should be decreased by more than 8 euro. 180 is still way too high. The UK's is well less than 100 pounds. The cost of living being more in some places over there.

Iv never understood the concept of this either why reward laziness and stupidity??? Long term dole claimants should be given vouchers no money...

Max Power1

hellboy99 wrote: »

That would be ok if the cost of living was lower here and not going up.

And if less free money was available what would happen?

Gareth2011

Tora Bora wrote: »

You mean it's getting better.

How the hell is it getting better? I'm on Social now and I owe 45 grand debt as well as a mortgage. I have my budget down to 188 a week exactly to pay everything I have too and god knows no sign of a job so how is possibly making me go to prision cause I cant pay a loan better? Howe is taking food off my table better? How is making it so I cant even afford 3 briquettes for 10 to heat an uninsulated house better? F**k off you have really f**king pissed me off.

themadchef

This "so long as it doesnt hurt my pocket attitude" sickens me.

Same thing across the boards, "ive no kids, so why should i pay childrens allowance".

Well, ive never been on the dole but it could be me standing in that queue tomorrow and you know what? I'd sure as hell hate to try to raise my kids on that pittance.

That career dole heads. We all know them. Live their lives one can of Dutch gold to the next. We finance that. Never worked a day in their lives. Yet there they sit at the bar on a Wed.... smoking too. I gave them up because i couldint afford them and i have a job ffs.

This country needs a radical overhaul, starting at the juniour generation. the cronies are nerer going to be taken in and changed. Their lives are set in stone. Unemployable, even in the *vomit* celtic tiger era

Teach the young generation, we are not here to subsidise your lifestyle choices. I fear it will be educate and emigrate because we cant pay people to stay at home, it's as simple as that.

i think if you lose you job you should get a decent amount of dole for X amount of time, on a decreasing scale... extra payments for courses are a great idea but the píss taking is unreral. The people i see taking courses with no intentions of ever using them to gain employment, just to get the few extra bob. It's beyond a joke.

giant_midget

Gareth2011 wrote: »

How the hell is it getting better? I'm on Social now and I owe 45 grand debt as well as a mortgage. I have my budget down to 188 a week exactly to pay everything I have too and god knows no sign of a job so how is possibly making me go to prision cause I cant pay a loan better? Howe is taking food off my table better? How is making it so I cant even afford 3 briquettes for 10 to heat an uninsulated house better? F**k off you have really f**king pissed me off.

get off your high horse there pal...do you smoke? 8euro is just 20 smokes.

You get a cut of 8euro...I got USC charges on my payslip..and it's a lot more than poxy 8euro!

Max Power1

Max Power1 wrote: »

And if less free money was available what would happen?

Nothing to be honest, the cost of living and running businesses here has never been addressed properly. Wages are not going up either but we're all been hit with a VAT increase, household charge, water rates, septic tank charge, other stealth taxes etc...

Gareth2011

giant_midget wrote: »

Iv never understood the concept of this either why reward laziness and stupidity??? Long term dole claimants should be given vouchers no money...

What good are vouchers to debt collection agencies? Or Banks? None what so ever. Social welfare isnt just about food you know not everyone lives in a council house and only has to buy their food every week. I have a mortgage like lots of people who have been let go from work and Vouchers dont cut it when your on phone to your bank telling them you need an arragement you cant afford it anymore due to no job..

skintiam

I'm sickened at how people lucky enough to have jobs are turning on people who don't, people without mortgages turning on those that have, creating a nice smokescreen while the causes of the problems mainly fat bankers are getting looked after by our government, someone somewhere is still profiting and we're too busy turning on each other to see it. I would love to see the whole government live on the equivilent of the dole for a month before they do the budget.

theteal

hellboy99 wrote: »

A DOLE cut of €8 a week is being considered in a desperate attempt to bridge the Budget deficit.

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/budget/will-budget-take-euro8-off-dole-or-euro10-off-child-benefit-2940517.html

It just gets worse.

seriously? how is this a surprise to people? i know it's hard on some people who are feeling the pinch as it is but there is a staggering amount of money owed

i'll let you in on a little secret

it's going to get cut next year again

giant_midget

Gareth2011 wrote: »

What good are vouchers to debt collection agencies? Or Banks? None what so ever. Social welfare isnt just about food you know not everyone lives in a council house and only has to buy their food every week. I have a mortgage like lots of people who have been let go from work and Vouchers dont cut it when your on phone to your bank telling them you need an arragement you cant afford it anymore due to no job..

your missing my point, im talking about people who have made it their career to be on the dole. Not normal people who lost their jobs in the past 4 years or so...The lazy hooers that were on the dole long before that im on about.

Gareth2011

giant_midget wrote: »

get off your high horse there pal...do you smoke? 8euro is just 20 smokes.

You get a cut of 8euro...I got USC charges on my payslip..and it's a lot more than poxy 8euro!

On your payslip so you have more than 188 a week to live on im guessing. Annd no I dont smoke, dont drink, dont gamble, dont have a car so I cycle 26k just to lodge Social money into bank. I sit in a cold house all day looking for jobs that when you apply they dont even have courtsey to email you back. 8 euro may not seem like a lot but it is when you count on that 8 euro to put to your electricity or food or pay it to a debt collection agency. I know what its like to work and then be on Social Iv'e been doing it since I moved to the country in 2006. Of course working is better and yes the the USC is a bitch but id still perfere to pay that and have even an extra 50 a week than to rely on Social all the time.

seamus

Everyone wants budget savings but nobody wants to be worse off.

There is absolutely no budget measure that they can introduce which will help reduce the deficit and inconvenience no-one.

So quit whinging and suck it up. If this government have any sense, this will be a harsh and painful budget so we can all get on with the process of getting over ourselves.

Gareth2011

giant_midget wrote: »

your missing my point, im talking about people who have made it their career to be on the dole. Not normal people who lost their jobs in the past 4 years or so...The lazy hooers that were on the dole long before that im on about.

Fair enough then yes Id agree with you on that. I apoligize for rant. Just gets to me when people who have jobs are saying yeah cut the dole. I agree people who have made it their lifestyle to be on the Social. Looking forward to seening if they bring in this thing where if yuou turn down a job your Social gets cut within reason. Reason being it would cost you more in transport or childcare than it would to take home a wage.

seamus

seamus wrote: »

Everyone wants budget savings but nobody wants to be worse off.

There is absolutely no budget measure that they can introduce which will help reduce the deficit and inconvenience no-one.

So quit whinging and suck it up. If this government have any sense, this will be a harsh and painful budget so we can all get on with the process of getting over ourselves.

I know the mess we're in and we need to make cuts but from what I can see is that the poor and low wage earners are been hit a lot more than the rich so how is that fair.

nesf

hellboy99 wrote: »

I know the mess we're in and we need to make cuts but from what I can see is that the poor and low wage earners are been hit a lot more than the rich so how is that fair.

You think high earners will escape in this Budget? FG/Lab are nowhere near that naive politically.

Max Power1

hellboy99 wrote: »

Nothing to be honest, the cost of living and running businesses here has never been addressed properly. Wages are not going up either but we're all been hit with a VAT increase, household charge, water rates, septic tank charge, other stealth taxes etc...

So you are trying to tell me that if a large section of the population suddenly had less available cash, that there would be no negative effect on cost of living? Pull the other one. Thats basic economics.

IMO we need to implement a sliding scale of cuts, something like 8-10e per annum until we are on par with the rest of the EU.

I would be in favour of cutting JSA first and leaving JSB (stamps based) untouched.

Gareth2011

themadchef wrote: »

The people i see taking courses with no intentions of ever using them to gain employment, just to get the few extra bob. It's beyond a joke.

I agree with you Im looking to do a course next year to be a wind energy technician so doing maintenance and fixing the wind turbines. But I will say if I can't do it because I wont get the BTEA Im screwed. I wont be able to afford a course so il need the states help but god knows when I do graduate and gain employment in that sector they will make it back through my taxes.

Gareth2011

Max Power1 wrote: »

So you are trying to tell me that if a large section of the population suddenly had less available cash, that there would be no negative effect on cost of living? Pull the other one. Thats basic economics.

IMO we need to implement a sliding scale of cuts, something like 8-10e per annum until we are on par with the rest of the EU.

I would be in favour of cutting JSA first and leaving JSB (stamps based) untouched.

JSA is means tested is it? How long does that last for cause the max you can get JSB is 312 days as you said stamp based.

Max Power1

Gareth2011 wrote: »

JSA is means tested is it? How long does that last for cause the max you can get JSB is 312 days as you said stamp based.

JSA is means tested indeed.

Currently (which is ridiculous imo) you can get JSA for as long as you want.

Gareth2011

Max Power1 wrote: »

JSA is means tested indeed.

Currently (which is ridiculous imo) you can get JSA for as long as you want.

As long as you want untill you get a job? (Altho if you can get JSA for a long as you want and your comfortable living on it why would you get a job?) I'm not in that bracket id cycle 100k to cut someones grass in rain if I was getting paid for it.

kildare.17hmr

i know a ladwho lives at home is 27 on the dole and just bought a new car!! I work full time and have a decent wage, have 2 kids and partner to support. Im comfortable thank fcuk but i cant afford a new car! People living at home should have minimal amount to live on but family's should be looked after and not hit further. It pisses me off.<br />
<br />
Also know a couple of wasters who live in a big house together thats paid for who smoke joints all day and play poker 3 times a week with no intention of lookin for jobs, hit these pricks, hard!

Gareth2011

kildare.17hmr wrote: »

i know a ladwho lives at home is 27 on the dole and just bought a new car!! I work full time and have a decent wage, have 2 kids and partner to support. Im comfortable thank fcuk but i cant afford a new car! People living at home should have minimal amount to live on but family's should be looked after and not hit further. It pisses me off.

Also know a couple of wasters who live in a big house together thats paid for who smoke joints all day and play poker 3 times a week with no intention of loo,in for jobs, hit these pricks, hard!

F**ks aren't they. I was working in Killarney for a while this year and one particular estate you never saw so many unemployed people living in one place and what were they driving 2011 cars. 1/2 of the estate were driving new cars living in council houses.

robd

Mad to see the divisions already on where the cuts will be made and tax increases made.

Children's Allowance
Old Age Pension
Job Seekers Allowance
Job Seekers Benefit
Carer's Allowance
College Grant

Income Tax Bands
VAT
Capital Gains Tax
Property Tax/Household charge
College Admin Fee
Inheritance Tax
Public Transport Fares
Motor Tax
Carbon Taxes

Which of these will be hit. All of the above. Just not necessarily in this budget. If not this budget then next year's or the year after's budget. Some will be hit multiple times.

The real argument is what the F are we subsidizing international banks by paying off unsecured bond holders for? Some sick international economics war being fought here. No body's being directly killed but people are being maimed by other means.

Yes you could argue we still have a big current deficit and we do. But we could have used the loans and pension reserve fund to invest in infrastructure and job creation measures which would have grown our economy and balanced the books over time rather than severely deflating the F out of it.

Suicide policies IMO.

maximoose

Gareth2011 wrote: »

How the hell is it getting better? I'm on Social now and I owe 45 grand debt as well as a mortgage. I have my budget down to 188 a week exactly to pay everything I have too and god knows no sign of a job so how is possibly making me go to prision cause I cant pay a loan better? Howe is taking food off my table better? How is making it so I cant even afford 3 briquettes for 10 to heat an uninsulated house better? F**k off you have really f**king pissed me off.

Your situation sucks, but those debts were your choices pal.

Gareth2011

robd wrote: »

Mad to see the divisions already on where the cuts will be made and tax increases made.

Children's Allowance
Old Age Pension
Job Seekers Allowance
Job Seekers Benefit
Carer's Allowance
College Grant

Income Tax Bands
VAT
Capital Gains Tax
Property Tax/Household charge
College Admin Fee
Inheritance Tax
Public Transport Fares
Motor Tax
Carbon Taxes

Which of these will be hit. All of the above. Just not necessarily in this budget. If not this budget then next year's or the year after's budget. Some will be hit multiple times.

The real argument is what the F are we subsidizing international banks by paying off unsecured bond holders for? Some sick international economics war being fought here. No body's being directly killed but people are being maimed by other means.

Yes you could argue we still have a big current deficit and we do. But we could have used the loans and pension reserve fund to invest in infrastructure and job creation measures which would have grown our economy and balanced the books over time rather than severely deflating the F out of it.

Suicide policies IMO.

Or the Government giving 50m towards a road upnorth. 50MILLION Imagine the good they could do with that if they chose too.

Max Power1

Max Power1 wrote: »

So you are trying to tell me that if a large section of the population suddenly had less available cash, that there would be no negative effect on cost of living?

My rent has gone up twice in the last two years, gas is up, electricity is up, talk of car tax going up and insurance, fuel is up etc..., wages didn't go up and now we have more cuts and taxes coming.

Do you know something I don't then, is the cost of living coming down after Xmas

Duke Leonal Felmet

I see 'help wanted' signs in shops all over Dublin. Sure, some of them are part time, but surely the pride in having a job and not being a burden on your fellow countrymen should lead to those jobs being snapped up? Perhaps this cut will finally give them the shove they need.

Oh, and I'll have fries with that.

RichardAnd

kildare.17hmr wrote: »

i know a ladwho lives at home is 27 on the dole and just bought a new car!! I work full time and have a decent wage, have 2 kids and partner to support. Im comfortable thank fcuk but i cant afford a new car! People living at home should have minimal amount to live on but family's should be looked after and not hit further. It pisses me off.<br />
<br />

To be fair, unless you know the details of that purchase, you can't really comment. It's possible his parents bought the car or perhaps he bought it using savings from when he was employed.

Either way, you shouldn't let what others do hang about your neck too much. I work 45 hours a week in a job I hate for 25k a year and I've never been out of work since I left school in 2004, bar a brief exception. On the other hand, my younger brother who has lived a very comfortable and carefree life has been offered a job to commence after he finishes college that will see him earning more than me for less hours worked. I could get pissed off about that and work myself into a state, or I could just accept it, be happy for him and realise that I'm better off than many.

I choose the latter and I feel better for it

Jaysoose

hellboy99 wrote: »

My rent has gone up twice in the last two years, gas is up, electricity is up, talk of car tax going up and insurance, fuel is up etc..., wages didn't go up and now we have more cuts and taxes coming.

Do you know something I don't then, is the cost of living coming down after Xmas

This is the reality this budget will strangle the life out of the economy on multiple fronts, the cost of living in this country has not come down and removing additional funds from the people paying the majority of the taxes to protect other sectors from much harsher cuts is a disgrace.

The dole should be cut by more than the suggested €8 along with major reductions in the various additional benefits.

This budget will all but kill small business by the sounds of things and this goverment is obviously as clueless as the last.

Gareth2011

Duke Leonal Felmet wrote: »

I see 'help wanted' signs in shops all over Dublin. Sure, some of them are part time, but surely the pride in having a job and not being a burden on your fellow countrymen should lead to those jobs being snapped up? Perhaps this cut will finally give them the shove they need.

Oh, and I'll have fries with that.

If I still lived in Dublin Id prob have a job by now part or full time. Living in the country is a pain in the hole when nearest big town is 20mins drive away. Would take me about 2.5 hours to cycle return to it. No one wants a sweaty employee

kildare.17hmr

RichardAnd wrote: »

To be fair, unless you know the details of that purchase, you can't really comment. It's possible his parents bought the car or perhaps he bought it using savings from when he was employed.

Either way, you shouldn't let what others do hang about your neck too much. I work 45 hours a week in a job I hate for 25k a year and I've never been out of work since I left school in 2004. On the other hand, my younger brother who has lived a very comfortable and carefree life has been offered a job to commence after he finishes college that will see him earning more than me for less hours worked. I could get pissed off about that and work myself into a state, or I could just accept it, be happy for him and realise that I'm better off than many.

I choose the latter and I feel better for it

i do know the details, he got a loan from the credit union! He can afford to put 70 euro a week into it and has done so for the last while and got a loan because he was constantly saving his dole!

I take home pretty much the same as you so and im glad to have it! My bro is also in final year of college and has a job offer abroad for next year to take home prob 10k more than me, fair play to him he deserves it and id never be annoyed about someone making more money than me thats not my point at all

liammur

Max Power1 wrote: »

Good IMO.

They cant introduce tax (stealth or direct) increases without a corresponding dole cut.

Otherwise it will not be worth while working anymore for a large amount of people that are borderline currently.

Very few people don't want to work. They'd get bored sitting around the house. In fact, most employers could get the axe to their employees pay and they'd still be more than happy to work rather than sit at home paying heating bills.

woodoo

20Cent wrote: »

There better be some wealth taxes and action against tax fugitives in this budget or people will go ballistic.

I agree, we are in serious times. Find a way to get money off them. No tax no passport.

woodoo

Gareth2011 wrote: »

What good are vouchers to debt collection agencies? Or Banks? None what so ever. Social welfare isnt just about food you know not everyone lives in a council house and only has to buy their food every week. I have a mortgage like lots of people who have been let go from work and Vouchers dont cut it when your on phone to your bank telling them you need an arragement you cant afford it anymore due to no job..

Your problem isn't really the rate of dole. Its debts. You need protection from debt collection agencies or banks. That should be dealt with for sure. Dole was never meant to be for paying mortgages.

drunkmonkey

liammur wrote: »

Very few people don't want to work.

I'd disagree, The average person on the dole won't work for minimum wage as it's not much better than on the dole and in some circumstances it makes them less well off to work.
There's 2 reasons behind this problem, either (a) the dole is way to high or (b) minimum wage is way to low.

Recently I took someone off the dole, they were doing 2 to 3 days paid work a week and the rest was paid by the social welfare. I upped the persons hours to 5 days a week and they complained saying they want to go back to 3 days as it's not worth there while to work the 5 days as it doesn't work out much better for them salary wise. (this is coming from someone with no job and feck all experience).
Seriously as an employer in a small business trying to grow should I really be competing with the social welfare. The whole thing is a farce at the moment. €75pw + Rent is enough if even a little generous to give anyone on social welfare.

For those complaining that an €8 euro drop is to much, may I suggest you look at cutting out non essential items starting with their internet & tv subscriptions. There luxuries and it's about time people waked up to it. If your unemployed your not entitled to luxuries and you should not be able to afford them.

Some poster above Garreth, seemed to think he'd have a job if he still lived in Dublin, why the hell isn't he in dublin then. Life can't be as though as he's making out if he's not prepared to make the move.

Max Power1

liammur wrote: »

Very few people don't want to work. They'd get bored sitting around the house. In fact, most employers could get the axe to their employees pay and they'd still be more than happy to work rather than sit at home paying heating bills.

Drive through some areas of dublin (near the IKEA thats just south of the northern ring of the m50 for example) and you will have a different point of view