iMac trouble

The Black Oil

I was on my iMac (2008, running SL) a few minutes ago and this appeared out of nowhere. I don't know what you'd call it, distorted graphics? All I was doing was looking at boards and vodafone.ie and I had iTunes open. I was going to connect my iPod, turned away from the screen for a few seconds and this appeared. I couldn't quit anything and restarted by holding in the power button, but the screen still looks weird and out of sorts. If it's or something is fecked, I think I'm outside of Apple Care as it was due to run out, I'd have to see. I left it off for a few minutes, but I'm still getting the same lines across the screen and it won't even get to the login. This sucks, luckily I've my Macbook (2007) for college, but I kept a lot of stuff on the iMac. Have stuff on Time Machine backups.

Any ideas?

Greentree_uk

'fraud that looks like your gpu giving up

ZENER

Agreed !! Might be worth checking if there is a recall on your machine. AFAIK there were serious issues with nVidia chips in many laptops (Not just Apple) over the past 5 or 6 years. A quick Google suggests there were recalls from many leading brands at the time. Could be worth a call ?

Ken

yoyo

If its a Nvidia 8xxx series video card its a known problem, you should be able to get a replacement/refund if its within 3 years but look at this site for advice.

Nick

The Black Oil

Thanks both. I'll try calling Apple tomorrow. Think Apple Care ran out in September. I got a 512MB card for gaming through Bootcamp at the time of purchase. Is this distinct from the GPU and if it is the GPU, is it expensive to replace?

Thanks Nick. I only had the system profiler open the other day, but I can't remember anything now.

The Black Oil

Found an email from when I ordered it - June 2008. Might this be the culprit?

NVIDIA GEFORCE 8800 GS W/512MB

yoyo

Black Oil wrote: »

Found an email from when I ordered it - June 2008. Might this be the culprit?

NVIDIA GEFORCE 8800 GS W/512MB

That is the culprit, plenty of evidence of those chips failing due to a design defect so get onto Apple about it. If its over a year of the warranty you may need to go after the retailer, and if you get no joy that route threaten small claims court, all the evidence out there will likely mean you'll be sorted before it reaches this stage though!

Good luck

Nick

The Black Oil

Thanks. Maybe I was unclear, it came with the machine because I ordered a BTO one at the time, no retailer to deal with other than Apple. Would they just replace like with like both in capacity and the same model or something that's not inherently faulty? Will I just have to be pushy if I don't get a sympathetic/on the ball Apple customer care rep? They'd likely point me in the direction of Mactivate or some such, yeah?

yoyo

Black Oil wrote: »

Thanks. Maybe I was unclear, it came with the machine because I ordered a BTO one at the time, no retailer to deal with other than Apple. Would they just replace like with like both in capacity and the same model or something that's not inherently faulty? Will I just have to be pushy if I don't get a sympathetic/on the ball Apple customer care rep? They'd likely point me in the direction of Mactivate or some such, yeah?

I missed that previous post. On PCs replacing the GPU is quite straightforward, on Laptops and Macs this isn't the case (its likely the Imac uses a integrated video chip like laptops). The fact that your warranty is out is irrelevant, the machine isn't "fit for purpose" due to having a known defective GPU.
You may need to go the small claims court route to get Apple to assist you, your replacement may use the same GPU, or maybe a different one, I don't know for certain how Apple handle this situation, I have heard of people getting full refunds on faulty laptops though, Apple may just replace the model with a new one, but I really don't know...

Nick

The Black Oil

Thanks again. I had to ring Apple a few weeks ago regarding something else. At the time they said the support call wouldn't cost anything, because it was the first time I called since the warranty ran out and it was free as a once off or something, but there might be a charge tomorrow.

yoyo

Black Oil wrote: »

Thanks again. I had to ring Apple a few weeks ago regarding something else. At the time they said the support call wouldn't cost anything, because it was the first time I called since the warranty ran out and it was free as a once off or something, but there might be a charge tomorrow.

This should be covered by warranty as the machine was sold defective (not by intention but still not fit for purpose). As I said you will prob need to threaten Apple with small claims court to get a resolution, theres plenty of info out there in relation to this defect, see here.
As Macs are not cheap machines they should last longer, you may throw away a €400 laptop with a failed GPU after that amount of time, but not something that cost in the thousands.
Fwiw I have heard of cases where people have to go as far as paying the few quid for small claims, when this happens the company will usually give in

Nick

The Black Oil

Meh, a fairly brief call. He went for the authorised repair option straight away, nearest one is CompuB in Swords, which isn't too bad. I raised the issue of a recall, but he said there was nothing on that and that if it was a case of a recall being out of repair (in the sense of being defective from day 1, to use your not fit for purpose SoGSS Act thing), that they 'very rarely' get such phone calls.

yoyo

Black Oil wrote: »

Meh, a fairly brief call. He went for the authorised repair option straight away, nearest one is CompuB in Swords, which isn't too bad. I raised the issue of a recall, but he said there was nothing on that and that if it was a case of a recall being out of repair (in the sense of being defective from day 1, to use your not fit for purpose SoGSS Act thing), that they 'very rarely' get such phone calls.

Do not pay to get it repaired, if you don't want to go down the small claims route buy a new machine, all the repair shop will do is take a heat gun to the GPU and charge you for the privalege :rolleyes: .
I linked you to the Nvidia Defects forum which I reccomend you join and ask over there, if you persist with Apple and go small claims they'll likely give in. Also its bullsh!t Apple would have never heard of this problem, but then again thats the kind of company your dealing with. Best of luck sorting it but don't pay

Nick

The Black Oil

Yeah, I've posted over on that place. What sort of evidence would the small claims court need, does people talking about the fault on the 'net count? :pac:

Sad Professor

Did you buy the iMac from Apple?

Greentree_uk

I can assure you that if your machine is in for repair with an Apple repair shop, and Apple agree to repair, they certainly do no take a heat gun to your logic board. this is not a practice of any apple repair shop I know. it may well be widespread in PC shops. Boards are replaced with fully reconditioned and warrantied products.

The Black Oil

Sad Professor wrote: »

Did you buy the iMac from Apple?

Yep

yoyo

Black Oil wrote: »

Yeah, I've posted over on that place. What sort of evidence would the small claims court need, does people talking about the fault on the 'net count? :pac:

The fact Nvidia came out and admitted the faulty chips is quite good proof . source. If it goes as far as the small claims court you may need to bring the machine into a computer technician (not a Apple store obviously) who will diagnose the fault, this can be done by checking display is corrupt on both internal and external display, and verifying the GPU the machine uses I would think.

Greentree_uk wrote: »

I can assure you that if your machine is in for repair with an Apple repair shop, and Apple agree to repair, they certainly do no take a heat gun to your logic board. this is not a practice of any apple repair shop I know. it may well be widespread in PC shops. Boards are replaced with fully reconditioned and warrantied products.

Suppose I shouldn't have put it that way, but it will likely be a reflowed refurb which will run in to the same issues later on down the road, actually OP if Apple offer you an Intel GMA chip over the Nvidia one I'd take it, no more gaming but at least your system should last!

Nick

The Black Oil

OK, I was in this place today, I had hardly explained a quarter of the story, just mentioned an out of warranty Mac with a (likely) graphics problem, I didn't even mention Nvidia and the guy started into an explanation that it/Nvidia was a 'well-documented' issue. He said they had a guy who looked after Macs and could take a look at it.

I also went to CompuB and to be fair, the guy was pretty sympathetic. He suggested trying to contact Apple again in the hope of getting through to an Irish person who might be more flexible. I'm also talked to the consumer agency today, though I can't remember a lot of what she said, apart from what we all learned in Junior Cert Business. I'd be willing to try the Small Claims Court, but should I write to Apple in Cork first to give them a chance to respond? The machine is important for my work, studies (distance learning) and some volunteering, but will that be swotted away as irrelevant?

yoyo

Black Oil wrote: »

OK, I was in this place today, I had hardly explained a quarter of the story, just mentioned an out of warranty Mac with a (likely) graphics problem, I didn't even mention Nvidia and the guy started into an explanation that it/Nvidia was a 'well-documented' issue. He said they had a guy who looked after Macs and could take a look at it.

I also went to CompuB and to be fair, the guy was pretty sympathetic. He suggested trying to contact Apple again in the hope of getting through to an Irish person who might be more flexible. I'm also talked to the consumer agency today, though I can't remember a lot of what she said, apart from what we all learned in Junior Cert Business. I'd be willing to try the Small Claims Court, but should I write to Apple in Cork first to give them a chance to respond? The machine is important for my work, studies (distance learning) and some volunteering, but will that be swotted away as irrelevant?

The bottom line is the machine is faulty, and the fault is due to a defective component being used in the manufacturing process.
Your first step is definately writing to Apple with a deadline by which to receive an adequate response/solution. If no response is given by this deadline start the small claims procedure. Its only €15 I think and you'll likely see a resolution before it even goes to court!
You may need to take the machine to a computer technician/specialist (probably not a shop which is a Apple authorized one as they'll be likely biased) to get a engineers report of the fault. This would be your evidence I think if the matter does get as far as the small claims court hearing,

Best of luck with it

Nick

The Black Oil

'adequate response/solution'

Well, that's the key, isn't it, but how bold can I be in the letter? If I'm not firm enough they'll say to bring it to an authorised place, but if I'm too full on (without being nasty) I mightn't get anywhere.

Thanks for talking me through this, btw.

yoyo

Black Oil wrote: »

'adequate response/solution'

Well, that's the key, isn't it, but how bold can I be in the letter? If I'm not firm enough they'll say to bring it to an authorised place, but if I'm too full on (without being nasty) I mightn't get anywhere.

Thanks for talking me through this, btw.

You'd probably be better asking in the Nvidia defects forum I mentioned, I havn't ever gone this route btw but just read about others expieriences (Had A 8800GTS GPU which I gave my bro last year, failed a few months back, just replaced it after it failed). But by firm I mean basicly saying you want the machine repaired free of charge or else you will bring them to court for refusing to replace faulty hardware, this isn't a case of wear and tear or user mis-use. I'm sure you paid in the thousands for that machine (I don't want to know how much! :eek::o) so it should be expected to last a reasonable amount of time, it clearly has not!
Let us know how you get on

Nick

The Black Oil

Well, I sent a letter (registered post) of a complaint, so we'll see if anything comes from it...

Cabaal

Black Oil wrote: »

Well, I sent a letter (registered post) of a complaint, so we'll see if anything comes from it...

I'd imagine something will come from it, all else fails there is always small claims and to be honest as long as you have evidence backing up the claim of a fault with your machine you'd win that hands down.

If you do go small claims odds are they'll settle before it goes the the small claims court,

Evidence is the important thing here...

The Black Oil

Are you speaking from experience, or gut feeling?

Well, according to An Post's tracking they've had the letter since the 24th, so that's not long. If I hear nothing next week it will be time for the SCC.

Cabaal

Black Oil wrote: »

Are you speaking from experience, or gut feeling?

Experience...though this experience is with county court claims in the UK.

It often doesn't matter how right the company may think it is because at the end of the day the cost of a defense is more often then not much higher then the cost of just settling (remember they have to pay somebody to represent them, you don;t).

As such mediation and settlement is a common outcome.

The reason why I'm saying evidence is very important is they need to see you have a case, this will likely push them to settle because if they try dispute the case they need to realise they could loose and it may cost them more.

It helps if you also can show evidence that you tried to resolve the issue in a very reasonable way before going small claims.

Again this experience is with county court cases in the UK but tbh they are pretty similar to small claims court cases (cost same, consumers only, claim the same amounts etc)

Cabaal

Any updates?

The Black Oil

No contact from Apple, disappointing in the sense of them not at least acknowledging contact.

I'm not sure what evidence to produce, apart from reports on websites, which may or may not be specific re the model of card I have. Thanks for your input.

Sad Professor

Did you quote the SoG Act and threaten to take them to the small claims court in the letter?

The Black Oil

Sad Professor wrote: »

Did you quote the SoG Act and threaten to take them to the small claims court in the letter?

Yep and I asked them to respond within 10 working days.

The Black Oil

OK, I was on the phone to Apple for 57 minutes this morning, passed from pillar to post, although some of them were helpful. Firstly, I wanted to confirm the legal name and apparently it's Apple Sales International (in the event of trying the Small Claims Court). Anyway, I wanted to check that they had received the letter of complaint in Cork, something which they were unable to do as it's not been attached to my case notes. The second fella was saying it might have been lost in the post or maybe that they were overwhelmed with letters...An Post tracking said it was delivered. Later on I tried to find out if it was between departments or what, no clue.

Next, I spoke to another guy. We did a hardware test, but the line problem remains. He said that it was a hardware fault, but also, not being able to boot into the OS was a 'separate issue'. After speaking to the technician, I finally got talking to someone in customer relations...I didn't have to say a great deal as she was fully aware of what I was trying to get across and obviously I'm not the first person who has tried to press them on the NVidia question. She flat out denied it was an NVidia problem, based on the fact that I had spoken to a technician and that it was obviously a 'display issue', that I should bring along to an authorised repair place who'll run tests to verify what's wrong.

Sigh, so do I go to an authorised repair place or somewhere independent and get a report, or straight to the Small Claims Court? Perhaps it would be useful to go to repair place to get some evidence. It seems apparent that I'm not going to get a response in writing.