Child Benefit to be cut by €10 per child.

Looks like Labour have lied yet again and have gone back on another election promise.

According to todays Sindo Child Benefit will be cut by at least €10 per child.

This is yet another attack on the poorest people in Ireland and it makes you wonder why consecutive government continue to steal money from children whilst the Old Age Pension has not taken 1 cut during this depression.

Child benefit will be cut by at least €10 a month in the Budget on December 6, the Sunday Independent has learned.

The Department of Social Protection wanted to tax the benefit, but bureaucratic difficulties mean the benefit will "be cut by at least €10 a month and it could even be higher''.

The decrease in the benefit is one of a number of controversial measures that the Social Protection Minister Joan Burton will have to bring in as she tries to protect the old-age pension

Last February Labour Party leader Eamon Gilmore promised that Fine Gael would have to abandon plans to slash child benefit if it was to have Labour as a partner in Government.

http://www.independent.ie/opinion/columnists/john-drennan/john-drennan-child-benefit-to-be-cut-by-euro10-per-child-2940174.html

n97 mini

irishfreeview wrote: »

This is yet another attack on the poorest people in Ireland

It's an "attack" on anyone with children!

When my daughter was born it was a bit less than £30 a month. The cost of living hasn't increased 500% since then.

thebman

They are also reducing the universal social charge on people earning less than a certain amount.

So this basically becomes about trying to make working look more attractive and taking it off the rich.

BOHSBOHS

if you take the 2000 rate of child benefit and adjust it for inflation it should be 70 euro now .... not 140 euro .... mainly due to election buying increases

digzy

it should be cut further!

Borrowing money to pay this from other countries like germany who pay less to their citizens is plain crazy.

The dependancy culture in our little country is startling. if you dont want to pay for your own kids dont have 'em!

dave1982

1 Means test it
2 child must be a resident in the country
3 Make everyone collect in post office not into bank accounts

jam_mac_jam

I think it should have been cut by more. Really stupid allowance and most people who get it dont need it. I dont think a tenner a month will make a difference to most people so I would agree with it.

Iamhere

dave1982 wrote: »

1 Means test it
2 child must be a resident in the country
3 Make everyone collect in post office not into bank accounts

Means testing it would be expensive, paying it all in post offices would also add cost, and im fairly sure under EU law the child doesn't have to be resident in the country.

amacachi

While I support cutting it I loathe the apparent reason for doing it.

nesf

dave1982 wrote: »

1 Means test it
2 child must be a resident in the country
3 Make everyone collect in post office not into bank accounts

2 isn't possible under EU agreements I think. 3 makes little sense. 1 is a good idea but expensive and time consuming.

irishh_bob

irishfreeview wrote: »

Looks like Labour have lied yet again and have gone back on another election promise.

According to todays Sindo Child Benefit will be cut by at least €10 per child.

This is yet another attack on the poorest people in Ireland and it makes you wonder why consecutive government continue to steal money from children whilst the Old Age Pension has not taken 1 cut during this depression.



http://www.independent.ie/opinion/columnists/john-drennan/john-drennan-child-benefit-to-be-cut-by-euro10-per-child-2940174.html

giving oliver cromwell his own public holiday would be more popular in ireland than cutting the old age pension , you cannot blame politicians for going with the overwhelming majority on this one

CamperMan

the welfare system in Ireland is far to generous... it should be cut right across the board and to levels paid in the rest of the EU

Icepick

Why is means testing so hard or expensive? Just get earnings statements from revenue.

3ndahalfof6

just get rid of it, for every child you have you should have to give the government €10 a month,

doing this might get rid of a lot of other hand outs.

Iamhere

means is not just earnings, savings etc have to be counted also

jam_mac_jam

Icepick wrote: »

Why is means testing so hard or expensive? Just get earnings statements from revenue.

Who does this? You have to hire extra people this costs money, this is why its expensive. Just get rid of it.

nesf

Icepick wrote: »

Why is means testing so hard or expensive? Just get earnings statements from revenue.

It's complicated working out the actual means of self employed people. They don't pay tax like a PAYE worker does. It's time consuming really, which means hiring more people etc.

mecanoman

Means test and check peoples bank accounts.

There's a certain class of people in this country who pop out children

to obtain benefits, be it Childrens Allowance, Back to School Allowance,

Medical Card, jump the Housing list(probably other allowances i can't think

of!). The couldn't love their children. Doesn't say much for Society.

Its frightening.

Nijmegen

All those calling for means testing forget, the department said it was incapable of means testing the last time this came up. I doubt they've become more competent at doing such basic social welfare jobs as that since then, and so it is quietly not mentioned.

saa

People should have to sign up for childbenefit
I would do a day of admin and means testing for the government for an increased dole from €100 to €160, spend 3 other days job seeking and have a 3 day weekend every week.

Actually I would do that work for a lot less as a charitable donation of my time and skills.

jimmy2pens

Icepick wrote: »

Why is means testing so hard or expensive? Just get earnings statements from revenue.

Means Testing would have to be carried out by the public sector, therefore would probably cost more than what the goverment would be saving.

woodoo

jimmy2pens wrote: »

Means Testing would have to be carried out by the public sector, therefore would probably cost more than what the goverment would be saving.

Means testing is already carried out for medical and G.P Visit cards. This is now done under the one roof in Dublin at the centralised Medical Cards office.
They could do the means test no problem. They already have the info for about a 3rd of the population. The very well off will not bother applying as they know they will be refused.

RichardAnd

Today is my 25th birthday (yay!). Out of interest, I asked my mother what the child benefit was back in 1986 and she replied that it was about 12 pounds. Now 12 pounds was more in the 80s but still, it's nothing compared to what it is today and the current rate is, in my opinion, encouraging irresponsible reproductive habits.

death1234567

digzy wrote: »

it should be cut further!
if you dont want to pay for your own kids dont have 'em!

+1. It should be scrapped entirely. Pay for own damn kids.

death1234567

woodoo wrote: »

Means testing is already carried out for medical and G.P Visit cards.

And its so efficient and successful the HSE have absolutely no idea how many Medical cards are in circulation. As soon as you involve the bloated, bureaucratic, overpaid, under-worked, clueless, incompetent public sector inefficiency and waste are the order of the day. If they did bring in a means test they'd probably find a way for it to end up costing the state more not less.

woodoo

death1234567 wrote: »

And its so efficient and successful the HSE have absolutely no idea how many Medical cards are in circulation.

Where did you hear that? I don't believe that.

death1234567 wrote: »

As soon as you involve the bloated, bureaucratic, overpaid, under-worked, clueless, incompetent public sector inefficiency and waste are the order of the day. If they did bring in a means test they'd probably find a way for it to end up costing the state more not less.

All the medical card local offices have been moved to a centralised office in Dublin under the new reforms. So they will be the only office issuing Medical cards and GP Visit cards from now on. They will have all the numbers.

joes girls

death1234567 wrote: »

+1. It should be scrapped entirely. Pay for own damn kids.

What a total waste of time reading a ridiculous post!!!

I never asked the great Fianna Fail to raise Child Benefit to the amount they did, in the days where they thought they was buying everyone's vote!!!

But now they have and it's part of my monthly income. Cuts to it hurt me just as much as any money lost in wages from having to pay more tax, or other charges.

Right now my CB is used to help pay for my oldest to go to college, as she is stuck waiting for her grant.

A lot of people with children need this money, and yes there is a lot that don't, but again it's not my fault that a government brought in a payment right across the board without a means test, and then hiked it up to make them look good.
So a cut in CB, along with other cuts that are coming my way in the budget are going to hurt, and silly comments like if you can't afford children , don't have them ,are not helping much.

MagicMarker

joes girls wrote: »

A lot of people with children need this money.

Indeed they do, and they should get it, but it should be cut for everyone else.

If you included this money in your monthly income to the point where if it was cut you'd be in financial distress, then that's your fault tbh.

In fact I could go so far as to ask why your daughter needs a grant to go to college when you've received CB for the last 17/18 years? But I won't.

nesf

joes girls wrote: »

A lot of people with children need this money, and yes there is a lot that don't, but again it's not my fault that a government brought in a payment right across the board without a means test, and then hiked it up to make them look good.

It was brought in originally to give mothers a direct income back in the single income family as standard days. The idea was to give women money that they gathered and controlled to help families where the men were spending badly and so on. Quite sexist but reasonable enough imho.

rodento

dave1982 wrote: »

1 Means test it
2 child must be a resident in the country
3 Make everyone collect in post office not into bank accounts

How much will it cost to means test:rolleyes:

joes girls

MagicMarker wrote: »

Indeed they do, and they should get it, but it should be cut for everyone else.

If you included this money in your monthly income to the point where if it was cut you'd be in financial distress, then that's your fault tbh.

In fact I could go so far as to ask why your daughter needs a grant to go to college when you've received CB for the last 17/18 years? But I won't.

Are you saying that i should have put my CB in a bank for the last 18 years?

Sorry, but is it not the people that can afford to put CB away every month the ones that don't need it?

Kristopherus

Icepick wrote: »

Why is means testing so hard or expensive? Just get earnings statements from revenue.

Agreed. All State bodies now can access your ppsn.All banks now ask for ppsn if you are opening a savings account It should be relatively easy for Revenue to provide details of earnings of parents to the Child Benefit Dept. The info is there, and sharing it electronically should be no great task.

MagicMarker

joes girls wrote: »

Are you saying that i should have put my CB in a bank for the last 18 years?

Sorry, but is it not the people that can afford to put CB away every month the ones that don't need it?

You mean do I think a person receiving child benefit should possibly put it away in a bank to fund a child's education? Oh heavens no, perish the thought.

mfceiling

MagicMarker wrote: »

You mean do I think a person receiving child benefit should possibly put it away in a bank to fund a child's education? Oh heavens no, perish the thought.

God forbid the person who relies on that money to feed and put clothes on that child.....tell them to "save" the money for the next 18 years :rolleyes:

Some people are in a desperate situation and the child benefit is keeping them with their heads above water.

Means test it surely but don't assume everyone doesn't need it and those that do should be saving it for a place in college 20 years from now.

joes girls

MagicMarker wrote: »

You mean do I think a person receiving child benefit should possibly put it away in a bank to fund a child's education? Oh heavens no, perish the thought.

Now no need to have that sort of tone with me!:o

I have used my CB for my kids education, they don't only start to cost when they go to college, it starts from their first day in school.
Believe me i would have loved to hand my kids a lump sum on their 18th birthday.

Welease

Kristopherus wrote: »

Agreed. All State bodies now can access your ppsn.All banks now ask for ppsn if you are opening a savings account It should be relatively easy for Revenue to provide details of earnings of parents to the Child Benefit Dept. The info is there, and sharing it electronically should be no great task.

It's no great task to do a dumb means test (income only), but thats not what we should be aiming to do.. As previously discussed at length just because someone earns X amount does not mean that are rich, poor or whatever term you want to use, whether they need the money will depend on their outgoings in relation to their income.
Simplictic solutions just increase the gap between lifestyle choice parents who have no intention of getting work, and those who have fallen on difficult times and continue to work to provide for their families while attempting to manage their finances.

Welease

MagicMarker wrote: »

You mean do I think a person receiving child benefit should possibly put it away in a bank to fund a child's education? Oh heavens no, perish the thought.

But isn't that what people are complaining about? Putting the money away..

MagicMarker

mfceiling wrote: »

God forbid the person who relies on that money to feed and put clothes on that child.....tell them to "save" the money for the next 18 years :rolleyes:

Some people are in a desperate situation and the child benefit is keeping them with their heads above water.

Means test it surely but don't assume everyone doesn't need it and those that do should be saving it for a place in college 20 years from now.

Where have I assumed that nobody needs it? In this very thread I've said some people need it and should get it. But the vast majority of people don't need it but have become so accustomed to it that they've taken it for granted and just assumed that it will always be there supplementing their own income. It's time these people got a reality check.

n97 mini

mfceiling wrote: »

God forbid the person who relies on that money to feed and put clothes on that child.....

Relies on a hand-out from the state to feed and clothe their child? I think if you can't afford to pay for the child yourself you shouldn't have the child in the first place.

joes girls

MagicMarker wrote: »

Where have I assumed that nobody needs it? In this very thread I've said some people need it and should get it. But the vast majority of people don't need it but have become so accustomed to it that they've taken it for granted and just assumed that it will always be there supplementing their own income. It's time these people got a reality check.

I agree with you, that yes i know whatever happens in a month i have my CB coming. And i do use it to supplement my income, for the simple fact that i have had it for the last 18 years.
Not sure what sort of reality check i need.

woodoo

Welease wrote: »

It's no great task to do a dumb means test (income only), but thats not what we should be aiming to do.. As previously discussed at length just because someone earns X amount does not mean that are rich, poor or whatever term you want to use, whether they need the money will depend on their outgoings in relation to their income.
Simplictic solutions just increase the gap between lifestyle choice parents who have no intention of getting work, and those who have fallen on difficult times and continue to work to provide for their families while attempting to manage their finances.

Thats dealt with for the Medical Card Means test. There are allowable expenses taken into account.

Welease

woodoo wrote: »

Thats dealt with for the Medical Card Means test. There are allowable expenses taken into account.

... And that depends on the implementation.. of which there is none yet detailed.. A means test for Child Benefit could involve a completely different set of allowable expenses.

Simtech

n97 mini wrote: »

Relies on a hand-out from the state to feed and clothe their child? I think if you can't afford to pay for the child yourself you shouldn't have the child in the first place.

Maybe some day far in the future you might have children yourself. You may then find yourself suddenly unemployed in a bad jobs market. Then you might realise what a stupid, immature comment that is.

Cill Dara Abu

Are they going to take anything away from the pensioners? They seem to get away with it in every budget.

Simtech

Between now and January we will pay €3.77 billion (link) to unsecured bondholders yet we argue about measures to be in the €3.8 billion cuts package budget. Our ire is misplaced. The government has the people at each others throats when we should be at theirs.

Gumbo

n97 mini wrote: »

Relies on a hand-out from the state to feed and clothe their child? I think if you can't afford to pay for the child yourself you shouldn't have the child in the first place.

I'm glad to hear your parents didnt apply for CA for you.
Good on them.

joes girls

n97 mini wrote: »

Relies on a hand-out from the state to feed and clothe their child? I think if you can't afford to pay for the child yourself you shouldn't have the child in the first place.

What a horrible condescending attitude to have, after all the talk of people losing their jobs, not able to afford to keep up with bills and everything else in life, some people must feel so low over what has happened here in Ireland over the last few years, and how it has left them financially, of no fault of their own. To read sweeping statements like these must be demoralizing.
Things are a lot different now for some of us who started our family years ago!!!

n97 mini

Simtech wrote: »

Maybe some day far in the future you might have children yourself. You may then find yourself suddenly unemployed in a bad jobs market. Then you might realise what a stupid, immature comment that is.

Quite the opposite. Not having secure finances when you have children is stupid and immature. If you don't know you can afford them, don't have them.

I have kids, and I've never had to rely on child benefit or any other hand outs.

Cill Dara Abu

n97 mini wrote: »

Quite the opposite. Not having secure finances when you have children is stupid and immature. If you don't know you can afford them, don't have them.

I have kids, and I've never had to rely on child benefit or any other hand outs.

So you never got CB?

sophia25

They say in life there is only 2 sure things, death and taxes, but that is not true. Every human being only exists today because someone provided care for them when they were in a dependent state. Likelihood is, if we live long enough we will once again return to a care dependent state. Reproduction is not just a personal issue but is also a necessity for society. Therefore while people do have a responsibility to any child they bring into this world, society as a whole needs to support them in this. Care comes at a price (loss of opportunity to earn, career stagnation etc) and it is unfair to expect any group of people to solely bear the cost of social reproduction, which is necessary for society. Childless people who expect they should benefit and piggyback on the efforts of parents are naive. Of course they should bear some of the financial cost of what is an essential part of a functioning economy. Without reproduction, who will work when we no longer can, who will pay for pensions, who will provide essential services etc? Children are quite literally the lifeblood of any society and every member of society will ultimately benefit from them so should collectively pay for them. If people aren't willing to accept that simple fact, then they could simply look at it as payback. Care was provided to them as a dependent and they need to pay the "cost" of this care back to society.

RichardAnd

Simtech wrote: »

Between now and January we will pay €3.77 billion (link) to unsecured bondholders yet we argue about measures to be in the €3.8 billion cuts package budget. Our ire is misplaced. The government has the people at each others throats when we should be at theirs.

Good point. Many people here say something very similar but they tend to be ignored. Seems the wedge has been hammered deeply.