CAGE CONTENDER XIII : BELFAST : 28 APRIL 2012

monkey8

John Ferguson wrote: »

I think it could be a good test to see which style works best, infact I think they could make a sport out of it..... Oh, wait hold on!

your different style point would make more sense if one was a bjj black belt with little or no mma experience and the other was a boxer/wrestler/judoka with little or no mma experience.
greg is a well rounded experienced mma fighter which is what makes it a mis-match.

thats the last thing i'll say about it because i realise that it's easy for me to say that when i am not organising the event. It must be a nightmare to organise with fighters pulling out late due to injury etc.

on a more positive note I think its great for irish mma that you have managed to get high calibre fighters like dean lister and gunnar nelson to fight here.

mmmm...not sure

monkey8 wrote: »

John Ferguson wrote: »

I think it could be a good test to see which style works best, infact I think they could make a sport out of it..... Oh, wait hold on!

your different style point would make more sense if one was a bjj black belt with little or no mma experience and the other was a boxer/wrestler/judoka with little or no mma experience.
greg is a well rounded experienced mma fighter which is what makes it a mis-match.

thats the last thing i'll say about it because i realise that it's easy for me to say that when i am not organising the event. It must be a nightmare to organise with fighters pulling out late due to injury etc.

on a more positive note I think its great for irish mma that you have managed to get high calibre fighters like dean lister and gunnar nelson to fight here.

This is totally correct the mismatch lies in the mma experince that both fighters have, i want to know as much as john is getting the flack here for the fight im sure jorge santos coaches agreed to this fight should it not be them that take full responsibility for this? Although he has alot of bjj experince he should not be going straight in at pro in mma before this fight was agreed he had another fight at pro in may this is a poor decision in my opinion

pablohoney87

glad to see people are finally prepared to call out a mismatch before the fight takes place rather than b1tching about it after.
but i think this may be the wrong one to do it on.
without saying too much i think Jorge has more than enough tools in his arsenal to beat Greg.
the only question in my mind is what his mentality will be like in the cage going into such a massive debut

darced

This post has been deleted.

Spideog Rua

To be perfectly frank, regardless of the result, I think that this match illustrates a disregard for fighter safety. Allowing a guy on his MMA debut to fight against a seasoned veteran of 39 pro fights is simply shocking.

peteclarke

John why are you thanking posts that are saying how irresponsible and dangerous your match making is.
This is a selfish mis match formed out of desperation.
Your defensive, smug attitude also proves your critics right. But I suppose we are all just key board warriors.

Hopefully Jorge subs him.

John Ferguson

peteclarke wrote: »

John why are you thanking posts that are saying how irresponsible and dangerous your match making is.
This is a selfish mis match formed out of desperation.
Your defensive, smug attitude also proves your critics right. But I suppose we are all just key board warriors.

Hopefully Jorge subs him.

I am thanking people for their opinion. And after all that's all it is, and we have differing opinions.

As for desperation, I suggest you read the rest of the fight card again. I am not being defensive or smug I just have a different opinion on this issue. I don't believe that you are all keyboard warriors, and am sure your concerns in your own opinion are genuine.

As I've said only time will tell who is right and who is wrong.

nino1

John Ferguson wrote: »

As I've said only time will tell who is right and who is wrong.

I don't think that if Jorge happened to pull off a sub victory that you would be proved right.
From a match making point of view it is a mis match regardless of what happens.
Anything can happen in an mma fight, any given sunday and all that, but the principle of this being a mis match remains regardless of the outcome.

I think its made worse by the fact that he has only began his stand up training 7 or 8 months ago. it would be bad enough if it was his first fight but had been training mma for 2-3 years.

I actually blame his team more than the promotion, they should know better.

just out of curiosity how much info do the promotion look for when matching fighters such as length of time training etc?

roro1neil0

this is a mismatch based on paper, a huge one. but it happens in mma fairly regularly at different levels (brock lesnar etc.).

the proof will be in the pudding, the good thing about mma, if it is a mismatch, you won't get a guy getting the ****e kicked out of him for 10 rounds, it will be over in the first minute.

having said that i don't beleive in awarding foolhardiness but i understand from the grape vine that jorge couldn't get anyone else to fight and greg probably doens't have too many volunteers either.

it's a sporting mismatch but i don't think there is any real 'danger'

Plastikman_eire

Personally I think Cage Contender should be ashamed of themselves for putting a guy who has lost a quarter of his fights by submission, in the cage with a BJJ black belt. Hang your head John Ferguson.

Spideog Rua

roro1neil0 wrote: »

this is a mismatch based on paper, a huge one. but it happens in mma fairly regularly at different levels (brock lesnar etc.).

the proof will be in the pudding, the good thing about mma, if it is a mismatch, you won't get a guy getting the ****e kicked out of him for 10 rounds, it will be over in the first minute.

having said that i don't beleive in awarding foolhardiness but i understand from the grape vine that jorge couldn't get anyone else to fight and greg probably doens't have too many volunteers either.

it's a sporting mismatch but i don't think there is any real 'danger'

Good post.

nino1

Plastikman_eire wrote: »

Personally I think Cage Contender should be ashamed of themselves for putting a guy who has lost a quarter of his fights by submission, in the cage with a BJJ black belt. Hang your head John Ferguson.

its not a bjj fight, its an mma fight between probably irelands most experienced fighter against probably the least experienced mma fighter in ireland.

jorge is a big boy and decided that he wanted to take the fight but just because he is a bjj black belt doesnt mean its not a mismatch.

most pure bjj practioners (and jorge much prefers gi to no-gi) take around 2 years training mma before they take their first fight and then get matched to a similiarly experienced opponent.

John Ferguson

nino1 wrote: »

just out of curiosity how much info do the promotion look for when matching fighters such as length of time training etc?

We try to gather as much information as possible from the beginning. Things like MMA record, total combat experience, length on time training, level of expertise in their own disciplines, walk about weigh, size of last minute weight cut, length of time training, who they have been trained by, details of martial arts success and at what level, age, height and anything else we can gather.

It's only when we have assessed all details and are happy that a potential match balances we move to giving both sets of coaches/manager all of the details and let them look at the oponnents etc. Then coaches discuss with the fighters then come back to us with a possible yes. The last step then is to discuss the financials, ticketing and so on. When everyone is in agreement we have a match.

cowzerp

nino1 wrote: »

its not a bjj fight, its an mma fight between probably irelands most experienced fighter against probably the least experienced mma fighter in ireland.

jorge is a big boy and decided that he wanted to take the fight but just because he is a bjj black belt doesnt mean its not a mismatch.

most pure bjj practioners (and jorge much prefers gi to no-gi) take around 2 years training mma before they take their first fight and then get matched to a similiarly experienced opponent.

Agreed, but Tony in Lucan know's his guy and feels he has a shot, it's worth noting that getting Jorge a match would be extremely hard and mainly only experienced lads would be willing to get in with him anyway.

I know who I think will win but been high level at BJJ gives Jorge a chance.

Also it is not like they don't know what they are getting into and are arriving to a mismatch on the day that was a set up.

John Ferguson

Plastikman_eire wrote: »

Personally I think Cage Contender should be ashamed of themselves for putting a guy who has lost a quarter of his fights by submission, in the cage with a BJJ black belt. Hang your head John Ferguson.

10 of his 18 losses have been by submission. And this was a sizeable issue with the Loughran camp when it was offered to them. They took alot longer to take the fight than Lucan did.

Plastikman_eire

John Ferguson wrote: »

10 of his 18 losses have been by submission.

Yeah, but slightly over a 1/4 of his total fights.

I think this will be more competitive than people expect.

roro1neil0

John Ferguson wrote: »

10 of his 18 losses have been by submission. And this was a sizeable issue with the Loughran camp when it was offered to them. They took alot longer to take the fight than Lucan did.

if i was greg's manager i wouldn't take the fight either. he touts himself (and rightfully so imo) as Ireland's best fighter but if he loses to a 0-0 brazilian he will look **** and will find it harder to get big fights internationally. if he wins he gets a win over a bjj blackbelt who is 0-0, a nice feather for the cap but not worth the risk.

he's probably itching for a scrap and doesn't want the training and dieting to be for nothing so he is taking what ever fight he can.

John Ferguson

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r3uyK7wJSoI

wingnut4

Correct me if im wrong, i may be, but was it not the last cage contenders or the one before where Norman Park took apart a BJJ Blackbelt from Scotland?

Niall0

wingnut4 wrote: »

Correct me if im wrong, i may be, but was it not the last cage contenders or the one before where Norman Park took apart a BJJ Blackbelt from Scotland?

That was Cage Contender 11 and it was Marcos Nardini who was 2-1 i think when he fought Norman Parke.

John Ferguson

wingnut4 wrote: »

Correct me if im wrong, i may be, but was it not the last cage contenders or the one before where Norman Park took apart a BJJ Blackbelt from Scotland?

Norman had a game plan that he stuck to and it worked well. He kept it standing for the 3 and refused to go to ground. If it had got to ground it may have been a different out come.

Barry.Oglesby

Pretty much everyone would look like a novice when their record is placed alongside Greg's. He is rightly revered as one of Ireland's best ever, and was a trailblazer for the sport.

However look just a couple of fights up the card and you'll see an ADCC champ, UFC vet, Pride vet taking on Rod Moore, and no one is shouting mismatch.

Why is this?

darced

This post has been deleted.

Kieran81

darced wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

same logic could be applied for someone who's signed up to fight a ufc vet , a former adcc absolute champ and reigning divisional champ , they might have been in with plenty before, but none can compare to what lister can bring .

i'm still very interested to see how both fights unfold

nino1

darced wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

i agree. I think both are mismatches but it is more dangerous for Jorge because its his first ever mma fight.

Barry.Oglesby

Look personally my money's on Loughran and the form would always suggest that. My point is that Jorge Santos is a grown up, Lucan MMA are grown ups, they've had plenty of fighters in shows at high levels in Irish MMA, so I don't see why people have suddenly got the hump about this match. From what I hear they both had trouble getting matched up.

MMA Lucan

There's no doubt it's a very tough debut for Jorge, & it is true that finding a match up for him at any level was very tough. But don't judge him based on what you think you know about him. No Lucan fighter enters the octagon unprepared, & you have to consider the calibre of guys Jorge has been working with on a daily basis for the past few months -

Henry Fadipe (Pro mma & Pro K1)
Blaine O'Driscoll (Cage Contender semi pro of the year, ISKA G'n'P champ)
Aslan Bisayev (Pro K1, Pro Muay Thai)
Fabio Viti (Pro K1, 2/1 mma)
Anzor Atsaev (3/0 mma, All Ireland boxing Semi finalist)
Islam Bisayev (Pro Muay Thai)

That's just to name a few. Jorge has a great team of guys to work with.

I'm not going to get into a debate, & regardless people will voice they're opinions, but there will be no more replies from our side. But if we felt Jorge wasn't ready, he wouldn't be entering the octagon.

John Ferguson is a true professional who cares about the sport, & would not put his own reputation on the line for the sake of a fight. He knows our fighters & how well prepared they are when they attend Cage Contender. Thanks

John Ferguson

Ahead of Cage Contender XIII in association with FIGHTSHOP.com we have gathered some quotes from interested parties and fans

Great fighters, great entertainment, great show! - Stephen McCourt, Fighter & fan

Being a big fan of MMA, I'm looking forward to attending Ireland's biggest MMA event, CCXIII this month! Fantastic fight card lined up, this event is not to me missed! Good luck to the boys from FAI! - Patrice O'Hagan, Leisure Industry Academy

Its Go Time for Cage Contender! I cant wait for CCXIII! This card is one of the best ever, and the fans in Belfast are second to none! Don't miss this one boys and girls its will be an amazing night! - Bret "Holywood" Freeman

It doesn't matter how good the last one was , because Cage Contender put on a better show each time. Can't wait to interview Dean Lister! - Andrew McGahon, Journalist & Fan

Cage Contender are forever improving as an MMA promotion and their cards get better with every show. CCXIII is no exception; not only do we get to see another three rounds of action between Wain and Robinson, but we also get to see submission wizard Dean Lister fight on Irish soil. Unmissable! - Mike Clarke, The Fight Lounge

Belfast loves a fight... And this card is full of potential barn burners. It won't disappoint. As an MMA fan, I can't wait! Watch out for The Hooligan, JMS and Levi Kehoe! - Cathal Pendred, Cage Contender Welterweight Champion

Sbg's fighters are ready to put on a great show for Irelands no.1 promotion - John Kavanagh

wingnut4

This actually looks like the best card to date. There will be some cracking fights. Greg Loughran fight will be interesting, never underestimate any fighter, thats what i say!

mmmm...not sure

Whats the final fight card for this? Has Karl Moore got a fight what a talent he is hope to see him in action at this