Mary Harney : I'm worth my E130,000 a year pension

Alibaba

Today's Irish Independent ; [Mary Harney : I'm worth my E130,000 a year pension.]

For God's sake what planet are these people living on. 130k a year is crazy money to be paying out to anyone !

Also according to that article Enda Kenny says the Government have no intention of cutting the huge pensions paid to former cabinet ministers.

[As many as 30 former Ministers are entitled to payments of more than E100,000 . These include former Taoisigh Bertie Ahern and Brian Cowen and former Ministers Charlie Mc Creevy and Ray Burke]

So come on Enda, LEAD THE WAY, CUT these crazy payments, They could easily be cut by 50% .Look at all the money that would be saved.

PEOPLE who destroyed our country shouldn't profit from it !

bamboozle

whatever about the legality of cutting the pensions of those already receiving them, measures should be in place to ensure these ridiculous pension levels are prevented in the future (unless of course if the TD in question wishes to contribute a large % of his salary to bump it up)

jprender

Alibaba wrote: »

CUT these crazy payments, They could easily be cut by 50% .

Why do you feel that they could easily be cut by 50% ?

I reckon it's not an easy thing to do at all.

flutered

legal minefield, the dail can do something about it not much, could the minister for finannce not take the filliting kinfe to them as he does to us ordinary mortals.

DublinWriter

jprender wrote: »

I reckon it's not an easy thing to do at all.

It's not.

Therefore you introduce a tax on ministerial pensions of 90%.

The UK took the same approach with bankers' pensions. Banks can't go back on a previously agreed legal and binding contracts, so taxing the bonuses at 95% was the solution.

hatrickpatrick

Are you listening, el.whateveritis? This is what I meant when I said there was a political elite in this country who get looked after at everyone else's expense. This is "The 1%".

MegaWattKungFu

DublinWriter wrote: »

It's not.

Therefore you introduce a tax on ministerial pensions of 90%.

The UK took the same approach with bankers' pensions. Banks can't go back on a previously agreed legal and binding contracts, so taxing the bonuses at 95% was the solution.

That sounds sensible but unfortunately won't happen.

BeeDI

Alibaba wrote: »

Today's Irish Independent ; [Mary Harney : I'm worth my E130,000 a year pension.]

For God's sake what planet are these people living on. 130k a year is crazy money to be paying out to anyone !

Also according to that article Enda Kenny says the Government have no intention of cutting the huge pensions paid to former cabinet ministers.

[As many as 30 former Ministers are entitled to payments of more than E100,000 . These include former Taoisigh Bertie Ahern and Brian Cowen and former Ministers Charlie Mc Creevy and Ray Burke]

So come on Enda, LEAD THE WAY, CUT these crazy payments, They could easily be cut by 50% .Look at all the money that would be saved.

PEOPLE who destroyed our country shouldn't profit from it !

I suppose, now that she cannot put her hair do's on her expense account, she needs the money from the taxpayers other pocket, to pay for it.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055428197

RichardAnd

jprender wrote: »

Why do you feel that they could easily be cut by 50% ?

I reckon it's not an easy thing to do at all.

I think he meant that they could be cut by 50% without leaving the recipient without reasonable income. In other words, there's alot of fat to trim.

BeeDI

RichardAnd wrote: »

I think he meant that they could be cut by 50% without leaving the recipient without reasonable income. In other words, there's alot of fat to trim.

Are you referring to Mary Horney in particular, with that last comment;)

hatrickpatrick

RichardAnd wrote: »

I think he meant that they could be cut by 50% without leaving the recipient without reasonable income. In other words, there's alot of fat to trim.

Their actions have left an absolute ****ton of Irish people without reasonable income, so I for one couldn't give a damn whether cutting it would do the same.
A taste of one's own medicine usually does people some good.

[Jackass]

Yeah, in fairness, this raises a whole issue with the entire public sector, not just the Government ministers.

The pay levels are massively inflated, and the pension payments unreasonable. There was a time when "civil service" was followed by a comfortable pension, but in Ireland they are the rolls royce of pensions, at the expense of the private sector tax payers, many of whom are self employed and have to fund their own pension also.

There's a great disparity in payments. If only the Government was as ruthless as the private sector in laying off staff that simply aren't needed or just aren't any good, trim the fat, cut wages, cut pension contributions. Yes it may cause unemployment, but paying someon EUR180 a week is a lot less than paying someone EUR80,000 a year, and in some cases, getting similar returns in productivity and worth to the state for the money.

The Government themselves should make an example and take a large wage cut also. Put it in line with global levels, and the role in perspective with independent compensation evaluation carried out. A Irish leaders wage higher than the leader of the worlds only super power and industry giant with trillions of GDP is comical.

Sir Oxman

It's really a social welfare type payment of gargantuan proportions, isn't it?
I mean she's 58, a good 10 years left in her. What's so special about Mary?
Not just her though, you have Dempsey grabbing 2.5k per week as well and he's off working on top of it.
Meanwhile, the rest of the plebs have 2.4% of any pension they actually paid for stolen to finance cheap labour on the Jobbridge program.

Kenny and Gilmore can mouth all they want about fairness but it must be seen to be done.

This country is going nowhere fast until justice and accountability is top of the agenda.

RichardAnd

BeeDI wrote: »

Are you referring to Mary Horney in particular, with that last comment;)

Actually no, just slipped in there

Alibaba

RichardAnd wrote: »

I think he meant that they could be cut by 50% without leaving the recipient without reasonable income. In other words, there's alot of fat to trim.

At least a 50% cut accross the board on all these ridiculous payments. If They can't live on that well.................

I'd take the hand off you this minute for it.. ie ( E 65K)

Bullseye1

Just like we had a referendum on Judges pay we should have one on TDs pay and pension Arrangements. Time to end this gravey train.

scatter

It would set an example if the current TDs were to return a sizeable chunk of their over paid salaries ,and the ones getting the over the top pensions to do the same.The chances of that happening are zero.Is there anyone of those with the grace to do so?

patwicklow

What on earth did they do to deserve such a big sum of money every year?
sat on there arses wining and dining talking bull**** really looks like the rot at the top aint going to go away

Alibaba

Bullseye1 wrote: »

Just like we had a referendum on Judges pay we should have one on TDs pay and pension Arrangements. Time to end this gravey train.

Absolutelty about time. Start at the TOP Enda. Time for real leadership, not just pussyfooting around.

Ok, They'll argue their pensions have been cut already but 7 or 8 % and Bertie and Brian still have E150 k plus, Mary Harney E130 k to mention a few.

Time to get real.

However... at the risk of sounding cynical something tells me they won't do this because it's themselves they're cutting !

flutered

Bullseye1 wrote: »

Just like we had a referendum on Judges pay we should have one on TDs pay and pension Arrangements. Time to end this gravey train.

you have the makings of a damm fine comedian.

endacl

E130000 would pay for a train of gravy. Where's she getting the money for the train of chips?

Samba

Pensions is an area worth exploring to make savings for the exchequer.

Though based on past actions, I've very little confidence in the current Government to implement any meaningful changes, remember the politicians have already accepted massive pay cuts. :rolleyes:

http://www.businessandleadership.com/leadership/item/28839-14-000-pay-cut-for-enda-ke

In what is one of his first acts in the top office, Enda Kenny has slashed his own pay by €14,000.

The new government has also decided to cut the pay of senior ministers.

The Taoiseach's pay is to be cut from €214,187 to €200,000.

Tánaiste Eamon Gilmore's pay is cut from €197,486 to €184,405.

Ministers' pay has been reduced to €169,275 (from €181,283), while pay for Ministers of State is cut from €139,266 to €130,042.

I'm still shaking my head reading the word slashed in the context of that article.

ed2992

Are country is on its knees people are losing their houses losing their jobs strugling to put food on tables. Our politicians just keep on taking they destroyed this country lets not forget our health service was a mess even during the celtic tiger with people on trollies for days. Mary harney was spending our tax money on going to chelthrim using the government jet to get her hair done every thing she put her hand to she destroyed and her fina fail cronnies. This new government and the last wont tax their rich budddies its time to take the power back and raid the dail only then will thay take notice and stop dancing on the backs of the bruised!

eire4

It just shows you how clueless Harney is that she thinks she is worth a 130,000 pension especially given she was part of the government that brought us financially to our knees as a country.

I don't know the legal ins and outs of cutting the pension. Maybe it cannot be undone leaglly as others have said. But certainly Enda Kenny and Eamon Gilmore need to show leadership and make massive cuts in future pensions down to at most 60,000. Then on top of that they could introduce taxation to specifically deal with Harney and other current ridiculous pensions to get them down to a similar level.

Crazy Horse 6

It's always "a legal minefield" when it suits the government.

pconn062

Bullseye1 wrote: »

Just like we had a referendum on Judges pay we should have one on TDs pay and pension Arrangements. Time to end this gravey train.

Will never, EVER happen, why would they bother? It would affect their own pensions and that would never do, greed will always rule.

BombayMix

Why is it so outrageous for a politician to receive €130,000 a year pension, but totally okay for a CEO to pay themselves many times more?

pconn062

BombayMix wrote: »

Why is it so outrageous for a politician to receive €130,000 a year pension, but totally okay for a CEO to pay themselves many times more?

Because a TD's salary is paid by the taxpayer while a CEO is paid by a private company, would have thought that was obvious. But if you are talking about the CEO of a state owned company like the ESB then this is as bad as the politicians paying themselves huge wages.

BombayMix

pconn062 wrote: »

Because a TD's salary is paid by the taxpayer while a CEO is paid by a private company, would have thought that was obvious. But if you are talking about the CEO of a state owned company like the ESB then this is as bad as the politicians paying themselves huge wages.

I don't see what is obvious about it. A politician is elected to a position with the power make the decision on their salary, etc. And an executive is promoted (or owns) to a position with the power to make that decision, no?

Arianna_26

Alibaba wrote: »

Today's Irish Independent ; [Mary Harney : I'm worth my E130,000 a year pension.]

For God's sake what planet are these people living on. 130k a year is crazy money to be paying out to anyone !

Also according to that article Enda Kenny says the Government have no intention of cutting the huge pensions paid to former cabinet ministers.

[As many as 30 former Ministers are entitled to payments of more than E100,000 . These include former Taoisigh Bertie Ahern and Brian Cowen and former Ministers Charlie Mc Creevy and Ray Burke]

So come on Enda, LEAD THE WAY, CUT these crazy payments, They could easily be cut by 50% .Look at all the money that would be saved.

PEOPLE who destroyed our country shouldn't profit from it !

Wouldn't you think that Enda would cut the pensions of former Ministers since he so regularly blames them for all the problems that the country is facing? If they are so responsible and it's all their fault do something about their mistakes.

€130,000 a year is crazy for someone who contributed very little. €30,000 would be fair imo.

I would consider a €130,000 pension a decent pension for a former Taoiseach.

maddragon

BombayMix wrote: »

Why is it so outrageous for a politician to receive €130,000 a year pension, but totally okay for a CEO to pay themselves many times more?

Hi Mary, Welcome to the thread.

WalterMitty

BombayMix wrote: »

I don't see what is obvious about it. A politician is elected to a position with the power make the decision on their salary, etc. And an executive is promoted (or owns) to a position with the power to make that decision, no?

A CEO's pay must be approved by shareholders who wont continue paying the salary if the CEO isnt adding at keast the cost of his/her salary in shareholder value. They are accountable for mistakes and can and are sacked. They also have gotten to the position of CEO by many years long hours and hard work whereas a politician can go from being an average job person to power in a few years.
High level public servants also are no where near as accountable or insecure in their positions as a private CEO. You see the like of Hurley of central bank being promoted to the top based on long service and being a yes man rather than having much ability. Anyway politics shouldnt be about money , if a person is in it primarily for money then we dont want them.

skafish

Following on from earlier, with all these TDs milking the system, taking home huge salaries and holding down jobs as well.
I suggest imposing 95% tax on all ex TD/Senator/Minister pensions from the time of their retirement or loosing office until they reach 65.
It wont stop the gravy train, but at least it would take some of the pain out for the rest of us ordinary folk

BombayMix

WalterMitty wrote: »

A CEO's pay must be approved by shareholders...

A TD's pay is also needs approval. The approval(vote) just happens before the pay decision.

WalterMitty wrote: »

..who wont continue paying the salary if the CEO isnt adding at keast the cost of his/her salary in shareholder value. They are accountable for mistakes and can and are sacked.

TD's have their job put directly on the line come election time.

WalterMitty wrote: »

They also have gotten to the position of CEO by many years long hours..

Many years and long hours are not a prerequisite to be a CEO (Zuckerberg), and many TDs are involved in politics long before they are elected.

WalterMitty wrote: »

...and hard work

Subjective, and again not exclusive to CEOs, TDs can work hard.

WalterMitty wrote: »

whereas a politician can go from being an average job person to power in a few years.

Average FTSE CEO age: 52
Average MP age 2010: 50

Maura74

How disgraceful, it is people at the bottom that has to work hard payig taxes to fund these b*****s at the top that are only there to secure a Massive salries plus expenses as well as gold-plated pensions and large houses in different parts of the world all of this they do not deserve.

It seems to following as soon as these politician are elected they are on the greedy gravey train and do not want it to stop.

If these politician work in the interest of country why is the country is in such a state owing billions, unemployment going up every day as well as people losing their homes and the average person is at their wits end trying to make ends meet.everyday.

These politician do not have a clue what the average person has to do to survive.

WalterMitty

BombayMix wrote: »

A TD's pay is also needs approval. The approval(vote) just happens before the pay decision.


TD's have their job put directly on the line come election time.


Many years and long hours are not a prerequisite to be a CEO (Zuckerberg), and many TDs are involved in politics long before they are elected.


Subjective, and again not exclusive to CEOs, TDs can work hard.


Average FTSE CEO age: 52
Average MP age 2010: 50

Doesnt matter, as i said politics should be largely above money. If a person wants a big salary let them go to private sector and see how hard it is to get such a salary and pension in the private sector. We should be like other countries where people move back and forth from public and private sector taking huge pay drops in order to do public service and help their homeland.

pconn062

BombayMix wrote: »

TD's have their job put directly on the line come election time.

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Are you serious with this?? I don't exactly see Cowen or Harney or any other TD's who lost their seats or decided not to run in the general election suffering like anyone else who lost their jobs. No, their too busy enjoying their huge pensions, do you think they have any money worries like someone would have who lost their job in the private sector??

Hootanany

BombayMix wrote: »

A TD's pay is also needs approval. The approval(vote) just happens before the pay decision.


TD's have their job put directly on the line come election time.


Many years and long hours are not a prerequisite to be a CEO (Zuckerberg), and many TDs are involved in politics long before they are elected.


Subjective, and again not exclusive to CEOs, TDs can work hard.


Average FTSE CEO age: 52
Average MP age 2010: 50

Is that you Mr Varadkar

hatrickpatrick

BombayMix wrote: »

Why is it so outrageous for a politician to receive €130,000 a year pension, but totally okay for a CEO to pay themselves many times more?

It depends who that CEO is. I wouldn't have such a huge problem with politicians in general being paid rhis much, but Harney was one of the people who ran this country into the ground. In private sector terms, she's a CEO who should have been fired for gross negligence and corruption, with no compensation whatsoever.

saa

I said to my partner why should anyone be on more than 100k, he said well what if they have a large mortgage.

Why should they have a large mortgage they can't pay on a realistic salary and especially when it comes to pension's they have more than likely already paid it off.

So I'm sorry I thought people deserved a certain wage so they can live comfortably not in luxury off tax euros.

Welease

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

It depends who that CEO is. I wouldn't have such a huge problem with politicians in general being paid rhis much, but Harney was one of the people who ran this country into the ground. In private sector terms, she's a CEO who should have been fired for gross negligence and corruption, with no compensation whatsoever.

Pensions tend not to be retrospectivly applied based on performance for anyone.. Why should they be for politicians?

This country obviously felt she was good enough to be voted in several times and hold a ministerial position, and her pension is based on that..

Maybe the voting populace needs to pay more attention?

ednwireland

she isnt 65, she shouldnt get anything until then anyway apart from 2weeks pay per year of service (which would be enough)

as an aside i was amazed at how young this crowd are (they look a lot older) bertie 61, cowen 51, etc etc

FGR

I laugh at how Enda's excuse for not touching their pensions is due to 'contractual arrangements'. Didn't stop the Government from passing a law to cut everyone else's salaries in the Public Sector.

As suggested I think a lot of these people should be hit with a 50% tax on their pension to let them live a comfortable life but not an excessive one. Bertie in particular.

ART6

BombayMix wrote: »

A TD's pay is also needs approval. The approval(vote) just happens before the pay decision.

True, but as distinct from the common herd they vote their own salaries.

TD's have their job put directly on the line come election time.

So how come so many of them are long serving or descendants of earlier TDs? Is it because they or their ancestors were so effective in representing the people?

Many years and long hours are not a prerequisite to be a CEO (Zuckerberg), and many TDs are involved in politics long before they are elected.

Anyone looked at televised Dail debates? Oh, of course -- they are all off slaving on constituency duties and putting in ten hour days like the guys in the construction and engineering industries used to do before the industries were wiped out.

Subjective, and again not exclusive to CEOs, TDs can work hard.

CEOs have to demonstrate results, year on year. If they don't they stand a good chance of being voted out at the next annual general meeting (note: annual, not every five years).

Maura74

ednwireland wrote: »

she isnt 65, she shouldnt get anything until then anyway apart from 2weeks pay per year of service (which would be enough)

as an aside i was amazed at how young this crowd are (they look a lot older) bertie 61, cowen 51, etc etc

Correct, she should not get a bean until she and other leeches in government are 65. What if they have a big mortgage this would give them a taste of what the most of country is experiencing. :eek:

Alibaba

ednwireland wrote: »

she isnt 65, she shouldnt get anything until then anyway apart from 2weeks pay per year of service (which would be enough)

as an aside i was amazed at how young this crowd are (they look a lot older) bertie 61, cowen 51, etc etc

And were just talking about the pensions. What about the big fat severance payments.

It's absolutely crazy and should stop immediately. But There's no political will to tackle this issue because as I said in an earlier post they'd be cutting themselves.

Imagine Willie Penrose , who resigned as a junior Minister this week (after 9 months in the job) gets E30,000 of a golden handshake and goes back to being a back bench TD.
How crazy is that

So much for all this talk by politicians about doing what's right for the country.

BeeDI

Alibaba wrote: »

ednwireland wrote: »

she isnt 65, she shouldnt get anything until then anyway apart from 2weeks pay per year of service (which would be enough)

as an aside i was amazed at how young this crowd are (they look a lot older) bertie 61, cowen 51, etc etc

And were just talking about the pensions. What about the big fat severance payments.

It's absolutely crazy and should stop immediately. But There's no political will to tackle this issue because as I said in an earlier post they'd be cutting themselves.

Imagine Willie Penrose , who resigned as a junior Minister this week (after 9 months in the job) gets E30,000 of a golden handshake and goes back to being a back bench TD.
How crazy is that

So much for all this talk by politicians about doing what's right for the country.

Mary Harney is getting a € per kilo.

Park Royal

Regretfully Ireland is in a financial crisis, harsh measures are required and Patriotic measures are required from all citizens....

as regards Mary Harney working hard and deserving of her pension ....
I suspect she did work hard , perhaps harder than any other Minister...

but as regards deserving of the huge Irish pension I dont think so....the reason I say this is simply comparing Irish Ministers pension to those of our nearest neighbour UK, if I read their comparable pension correctly ,our Irish ministers pensions would equate to the British Prime Ministers , but his responsibility covered 50 odd million citizens , armed nuclear forces, on going regional wars, etc etc......and again if I am understanding their system ...they the UK parliamentary members actually contribute various percentages of their salaries to their pension pots.......

as a result the Irish Ministers pensions and others are out of kilter and need to be reduced substantially to reflect the proper worth of their positions , which is far less than they are being paid for........

those ministers and others who have contributed to their pension pots should receive credit for such contributions......

the culture of deference

Harney you are a F** fcuking cnut.

You were a failure in government.

34 years poxy service and you are not worth anything.

the likes of you cowen bertie burkey should be dealt with the way the french dealt with their grandoise fcukheads

laoch na mona

shes not worth **** all

Maura74

PM Cameron pay is £145 pa and that included expensese as well, there is over 60million in the UK. 5 million in Irreland. Yes PM and MP's pay into their pensions and that is their % is going up in the new year.

I bet the Mary gets well paid every time she appears on RTE as well she does not make apperance for nothing the greedy COW.