Would you support a European level wealth tax?

shadowninty

I've noticed a lot of comment stating how we shouldnt bother taxing the rich much more as they will just get up and leave the country, resulting in a loss of revenue, which I cant disagree with. However, if there were to be a wealth tax of say, 1% on peoples assets above, say five million euro, if they are a citizen of the European Union, would you support it? Such a tax would be put into a European treasury - not into national treasuries.

It seems like a decent proposal to me, but perhaps others would feel this could lead to a tax creep where more and more taxes are levied, partly or wholy at a European level, namely Corporation Tax. It would make it a lot harder for the wealthy to avoid paying their "fair share", with the only way of avoiding it being revoking your European citizenship.

Godge

shadowninty wrote: »

I've noticed a lot of comment stating how we shouldnt bother taxing the rich much more as they will just get up and leave the country, resulting in a loss of revenue, which I cant disagree with. However, if there were to be a wealth tax of say, 1% on peoples assets above, say five million euro, if they are a citizen of the European Union, would you support it? Such a tax would be put into a European treasury - not into national treasuries.

It seems like a decent proposal to me, but perhaps others would feel this could lead to a tax creep where more and more taxes are levied, partly or wholy at a European level, namely Corporation Tax. It would make it a lot harder for the wealthy to avoid paying their "fair share", with the only way of avoiding it being revoking your European citizenship.

People will sell in Europe and buy in America or Asia.

hatrickpatrick

I'm not in favour of a European level anything tax. That should be a matter for national governments. Any laws passed at European level are simply not subject to the same kind of democratic lobbying as local laws are. If they ever get the right to enforce taxes at the European level, you can bet the ordinary citizen of any given country will get absolutely no input whatsoever.

If you think national parliaments are unaccountable.... Just you wait

Ellis Dee

I'd support it, but can't see it being implemented any time soon. There are still plenty of tax paradises outside, but close to, the EU, in addition to which it is largely the rich who determine what laws get passed anyway.;)

That's why this solution is unlikely to be adopted in the foreseeable future:



But I live in hope.:D:D

K-9

Probably wouldn't get adopted anyway.

Seems to be hard enough to get agreement on European wide bank tax.

pragmatic1

I'm very much fcuk Europe atm so no.

melekalikimaka

mneh i cant see the justification in making the rich pay more than the not so rich... seems kinda spiteful

Cookie_Monster

no I wouldn't support it.

The rich already pay a far disproportionate amount of tax.
how much do we keep insisting on taxing people more and more and more to support the ever increasing welfare state that the EU is becoming?

stacypeak

That is the reality of life.. they can are getting things from those who have the capability of giving..:)

hallelujajordan

There are two things that are wrong with this idea ..

Wealth Tax discourages the generation of wealth and encourages the movement of investment overseas . . not good for the economy in Ireland or Europe, apart from being fundamentally unfair.

European Tax moves yet another element of our sovereignty to the largely unaccountable European beast where the Germans and French will decide how it should be spent.

jmayo

shadowninty wrote: »

I've noticed a lot of comment stating how we shouldnt bother taxing the rich much more as they will just get up and leave the country, resulting in a loss of revenue, which I cant disagree with. However, if there were to be a wealth tax of say, 1% on peoples assets above, say five million euro, if they are a citizen of the European Union, would you support it? Such a tax would be put into a European treasury - not into national treasuries.

It seems like a decent proposal to me, but perhaps others would feel this could lead to a tax creep where more and more taxes are levied, partly or wholy at a European level, namely Corporation Tax.

Ehh what use would it be since the ones rich enough to move would move to places which are tax havens and outside of EU control such as Switzerland, Monaco, Andorra, Liechenstein.
Also the other tax havens within EU such as Channel Islands and Isle of Man have dispensations regarding tax and they couldn't change the rules for them.

Secondly there is no way the EU should be allowed set any EU wide taxes.
It would mean the Germans/French would be given even greater control.

shadowninty wrote: »

It would make it a lot harder for the wealthy to avoid paying their "fair share", with the only way of avoiding it being revoking your European citizenship.

I consider myself an Irish citizen not a European citizen.
Didn't know Europe was now a state. :rolleyes:

Slozer

There are loopholes in our income tax system which some very rich people exploit and it exempts them from paying income tax in the state. Whereby if you are out of the country for a certain amount of days per year you do not pay any income tax.

I dont think this tax will make 1 bit of difference, have you not yet figured out that these laws are made to tax the masses and let the rich off.

Kinski

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

I'm not in favour of a European level anything tax. That should be a matter for national governments. Any laws passed at European level are simply not subject to the same kind of democratic lobbying as local laws are. If they ever get the right to enforce taxes at the European level, you can bet the ordinary citizen of any given country will get absolutely no input whatsoever.

If you think national parliaments are unaccountable.... Just you wait

But we're in it now. We are part of a single currency, and are subject to decisions made by various bodies at European level. I think one of the biggest problems we have is that the various members, including Germany, are still thinking in terms of national interests, rather than in terms of what will be good for the EU and/or Eurozone as a whole. The democratic deficit which you highlight is a problem too, though.

jmayo

Kinski wrote: »

But we're in it now. We are part of a single currency, and are subject to decisions made by various bodies at European level. I think one of the biggest problems we have is that the various members, including Germany, are still thinking in terms of national interests, rather than in terms of what will be good for the EU and/or Eurozone as a whole. The democratic deficit which you highlight is a problem too, though.

IMHO the Euro is doomed.
Either we totally sell out our soverignty for the future and agree to fiscal controls set by someone in Frankfurt/Brussels or we eventually go back to another currency pegged to some major currency.

This whole Eurozone meltdown has shown us that allowing our finances to be run by Frankfurt and Brussels is not going to be beneficial to us, since they are always going to be working at the behest of the big two.
True we have done an abysmal job of running our own finances over the last 12 odd years, but having them dictated by the future sarkozies and merkels of this world will mean our country will be a backwater hamstrunk by rules that are good for Germany and France.

Even if democracy is brought into it, it will favour the larger two even more through weight of numbers.

Batsy

I can't understand those who wish to penalise the rich.

It does nothing but stifle entrepreneurship. Anyone wanting to become the next Richard Branson or Bill Gates would be discouraged, knowing that once they became successful and started making loads of money they'd be penalised.

hungrychef

Batsy wrote: »

I can't understand those who wish to penalise the rich.

It does nothing but stifle entrepreneurship. Anyone wanting to become the next Richard Branson or Bill Gates would be discouraged, knowing that once they became successful and started making loads of money they'd be penalised.

Just in the same way tax in general discourages people from working? Knowing you get a paycheck that you will be penalized for.

Please. People are successful because they either work hard/get lucky/excel in their field etc etc. There will always be successful money makers just as there are unsuccessful.

Saying it would discourage entrepreneurial endeavors is a fruitless argument. The only thing it discourages are big earners from living and spending in this country. This is a different argument.

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

Mr. Incognito

The more you have the less you pay. Trust me. There are all sorts of schemes and mechanisms to avoid tax.

I'd be in favour of a flat 5% harmonised VAT rate as all European Countries have VAT with no deductibility.

At present a VAT registered person can deduct their VAT.

5% non refundable VAT on Every transaction in the EU is a lotta moula and penalises the rich by the back door and stops corporations from exporting their profits abroad as 5% on every purchase is going straight into the public coffers

Annasopra

I would be definitely in favour of taxing wealth more in this country. There are millionaires and billionaires who can afford to contribute more.

An organisation that is promoting it at the moment is claiming our future

http://claimingourfuture.revolutionaries.ie/takeaction/

K-9

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

Sores advocated something similar and the French introduced it.

nesf

Mr. Incognito wrote: »

I'd be in favour of a flat 5% harmonised VAT rate as all European Countries have VAT with no deductibility.

Give me flat taxes here with no deductibility and I'll be happy.

melekalikimaka

mango salsa wrote: »

I would be definitely in favour of taxing wealth more in this country. There are millionaires and billionaires who can afford to contribute more.

and you think its fair that the rich should have to pay a higher proportion to you? Robin Hood much?

shadowninty

melekalikimaka wrote: »

and you think its fair that the rich should have to pay a higher proportion to you? Robin Hood much?

Its fair so that economic gains are spread evenly throughout society, not just spread to those who can decide the wages.

WalterMitty

Even if we seized all the wealth in europe of anyone worth over a million net in Europe and sent the money equally to all the people in europe it would give a one off payment of 10 or 20 grand per person. Then these formerly wealthy people would largely leave Europe and as they are generally best at creating wealth and businesses europe would enter an economic dark age.
It is a socialist fantasy that there is a huge pot of cash out there that can be tapped into every year to fund massive welfare states without any consequences.
Like it or not there are a significant amount of wealthy people who do what they do to make pots of money, and a lot of time its not even a greed thing but a measure of success thing, a score.

These people are also much more likely to oppose state involvement in all areas and resent giving what they regard as their hard earned assets to governments who they see as parasitical,inefficient,bloated etc and would rather decide what they do with their own assets whether that be try and build more assets or engage in philantrophy and charity and art.

I think its arguable that socities benefit from such individuals who are driven ( even if money is their driver) much more than they lose by not heavily taxing these people. We can benefit from their greed as their greed drives them to expand efficiently, employing people and using earths limited resources in an efficient manner.

melekalikimaka

shadowninty wrote: »

Its fair so that economic gains are spread evenly throughout society, not just spread to those who can decide the wages.

i would disagree with this to the core

shadowninty

melekalikimaka wrote: »

i would disagree with this to the core

So you feel the US does it better? Is our Gini index just too low for you?

melekalikimaka

i just dont feel its right to make those who have worked to make alot of money pay more for the same benefits, just because they have exceeded in their work financially. I know this is not the case with ALL but as a whole it is and its silly to think all rich are unscrupelous and evil

karma_

Batsy wrote: »

I can't understand those who wish to penalise the rich.

It does nothing but stifle entrepreneurship. Anyone wanting to become the next Richard Branson or Bill Gates would be discouraged, knowing that once they became successful and started making loads of money they'd be penalised.

Warren Buffet called. He says you're wrong.

jmayo

Batsy wrote: »

I can't understand those who wish to penalise the rich.

It does nothing but stifle entrepreneurship. Anyone wanting to become the next Richard Branson or Bill Gates would be discouraged, knowing that once they became successful and started making loads of money they'd be penalised.

Sounds like some American extolling virtues of low tax since after all if you manage to attain the American dream, would you want to pay more tax. :rolleyes:

I love the way Americans, even poor ones, fall for this cr** and decide that 40 odd million people are ok with no healthcare and another chunk are ok getting ridden sideways by healthcare providers, all because they reckon someday they might be taxed more to pay for it.

BTW since gates is an American citizen he damm well pays his taxes to the IRS or he will end up in the nick with the likes of mr snipes.
And since he is a US citizen he can't just find some loophole by living outside the country for x months a year.

Mr. Incognito wrote: »

The more you have the less you pay. Trust me. There are all sorts of schemes and mechanisms to avoid tax.

This is the thing.
If one is rich enough one can invest in tax consultants and tax lawyers to find the loopholes and avoid paying the same percentage as everyone else.
Wasn't that where the bould mr derek quinlan made his mark before he started all his property funds.

Where I have a major gripe is the tax exiles who swan around the place like lord muck, having major influence in the country, all the while avoiding paying tax here by claiming residence so many days per year in some tax haven.

Oh and as an aside I know bonehead is not technically a tax exile and only moved some of his group's affairs, but since that and his benefiting from artists tax exemption I think he should keep his fooking mouth shut about how we spend taxes in this country.

Mr. Incognito wrote: »

I'd be in favour of a flat 5% harmonised VAT rate as all European Countries have VAT with no deductibility.

At present a VAT registered person can deduct their VAT.

Ehh it is meant to be related to your business expenses.
Of course there is a fair amount of leeway, but it has to have some bearing in realism if you are audited.

Mr. Incognito wrote: »

5% non refundable VAT on Every transaction in the EU is a lotta moula and penalises the rich by the back door and stops corporations from exporting their profits abroad as 5% on every purchase is going straight into the public coffers

VAT is an interesting one becuase it affects the less well off disportionately more.
Of course one could just stop buying stuff and one avoids paying it.

zero_hope

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

Actually in Sweden there was a wealth tax for a long long time, yet that did not stop companies such as Saab, Volvo, SKF, ABB, Assa Abloy, Sandviken or Atlas Copco from thriving now did it?

Again what kind of "entrepreneurship" does Ireland have to show for itself with lower levels of taxation and less regulation in general?

Will you choose to ignore reality when reality does not suit your political opinions?

SupaNova

karma_ wrote: »

Warren Buffet called. He says you're wrong.

Buffet said so therefore your wrong, isn't a good argument.

jmayo

zero_hope wrote: »

Actually in Sweden there was a wealth tax for a long long time, yet that did not stop companies such as Saab, Volvo, SKF, ABB, Assa Abloy, Sandviken or Atlas Copco from thriving now did it?

Again what kind of "entrepreneurship" does Ireland have to show for itself with lower levels of taxation and less regulation in general?

Will you choose to ignore reality when reality does not suit your political opinions?

Well we had denis o'brien, who happens to have made his money by getting the mobile phone license in shall we say dubious circumstances.
We have dermot desmond who also was involved with one cj haughey.
We had sean quinn, need I elaborate on him.
We had the top bankers, who all failed dragging down the state.
We had all those famous people involved in construction development, whose debts the taxpayers are not landed with.

The few real entrepreneurs to have come out of here are the likes of Michael O'Leary, Denis Brosnan, Edward Haughey, Terry Clune, Chris Horn.

SupaNova wrote: »

Buffet said so therefore your wrong, isn't a good argument.

Well I know I would rate Buffets opinion on financial matters generally over some people I met on the web.