Demonstrations and Gardaí

pog it

Saw a lot of Gardaí on the streets in Dublin today due to the Trinity College students' demonstration against fees- actually I lost count of how many Gardaí there were.

Are these Gardaí brought in from the stations or are they on overtime? How does this work?

There is a lot of talk about not enough Gardaí, etc. but I have never seen as many at a demonstration of that size. And nor have I seen as many on the roads. What's going on?

Well, I do know from the Garda that stopped me recently that they are cracking down on motorists as the Government want to increase their tax intake - that is from the horse's mouth, not making that up.

Sofa King Great

pog it wrote: »

Saw a lot of Gardaí on the streets in Dublin today due to the Trinity College students' demonstration against fees- actually I lost count of how many Gardaí there were.

Are these Gardaí brought in from the stations or are they on overtime? How does this work?

There is a lot of talk about not enough Gardaí, etc. but I have never seen as many at a demonstration of that size. And nor have I seen as many on the roads. What's going on?

Well, I do know from the Garda that stopped me recently that they are cracking down on motorists as the Government want to increase their tax intake - that is from the horse's mouth, not making that up.

They are expecting in excess of 10,000 students at the protest. The last similar protest resulted in some minor civil unrest in which the public order unit were required. Hence the large Garda presence this time.

deadwood

pog it wrote: »

Well, I do know from the Garda that stopped me recently that they are cracking down on motorists as the Government want to increase their tax intake - that is from the horse's mouth, not making that up.

I'm amazed that memo wasn't leaked already.

Pressure is on to raise revenue with some incentives.

If I give out 3 more tickets before Christmas, i'll get a free jug kettle.

Are there as many students occupying Dame St as there is occupying Storbucks?

Delancey

Dr. Who was a Time Lord , deadwood is an Overtime Lord

pog it

Sofa King Great wrote: »

They are expecting in excess of 10,000 students at the protest. The last similar protest resulted in some minor civil unrest in which the public order unit were required. Hence the large Garda presence this time.

When you see that a demonstration is vastly smaller than you expected do you not decrease the number of guards you have called in for it?

King Ludvig

pog it wrote: »

Well, I do know from the Garda that stopped me recently that they are cracking down on motorists as the Government want to increase their tax intake - that is from the horse's mouth, not making that up.

Not according to today's Independent...

GAY BYRNE last night launched an unprecedented attack on government cutbacks -- warning that lives will be lost unless gardai are given the resources to enforce road traffic legislation.

The chairman of the Road Safety Authority (RSA) said cuts in garda funding meant speeding and drink-driving laws were not being enforced, and that once word got out that gardai could not police the roads the death toll would rise.

His comments come after the Irish Independent revealed earlier this month that the number of motorists breath-tested over the October bank holiday weekend fell by almost half despite the introduction of lower drink-driving limits.

Senior garda sources said the reduction was because of cutbacks and a fall in the number of available gardai.

Mr Byrne told the Dail Environment Committee yesterday he was concerned that cuts in the number of gardai in the traffic corps were hampering efforts to improve road safety.

Resources

Gardai had also been forced to bear the €35m security bill for the state visits of Queen Elizabeth and US President Barack Obama, which had further stretched resources.

Last year deaths fell to a record low of 212 people killed he said. The number of fatalities so far this year was 31 fewer, but a "concerted effort" was needed across all state agencies to continue to reduce numbers, he said.

"Enforcement is a key pillar to our success to date and its role in maintaining behaviour change and road-user compliance cannot be over estimated," Mr Byrne said.

"I am concerned about the level of enforcement. The budget of An Garda Siochana has been vastly reduced and a great amount has been spent on the visits of Queen Elizabeth and Barack Obama. Numbers in the garda traffic corps have fallen from 1,200 to 900. As soon as word gets out that enforcement is down, the bad behaviour returns and starts again."

On top of the bill for the state visits, gardai have also been forced to introduce a ban on new recruits, make cost savings of €20m and reduce numbers.

The Department of Justice last night defended the cuts, saying it was up to the Garda Commissioner to manage his resources. "The allocation of resources, including manpower, is a matter for the Garda Commissioner in the context of his identified policing priorities," it said.

"As with every other public sector organisation, the reality is that the Garda Siochana is going to have to manage with reduced resources. This must be seen in the context of the plans agreed by the previous government, as part of its compliance with the terms of the EU-IMF agreement."

- Paul Melia

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/lives-will-be-lost-warns-gaybo-2935681.html

Sierra Oscar

The overtime budget is stretched to the max as it is, mainly due to overspending when policing the recent state visits so that money will be taken out of existing resources. The Department of Justice had set aside circa €20 million to pay the overtime to cover the visits, but over €30 million was spent.

Now the Department of Justice is fighting with a certain other department over settling that overspend, and overtime will suffer in the meantime - which is absolutely ridiculous considering the money is coming from the same purse in anycase.

And that's not operationally confidential - it is on Dáil record. Although it is very much so hurting operational duties.

Zambia

So students wanting more money for college from the public purse. Have a demo that takes money from the public purse. People have to get smarter about how they do things.

goldie fish

Zambia wrote: »

So students wanting more money for college from the public purse. Have a demo that takes money from the public purse. People have to get smarter about how they do things.

Why weren't they in lectures?
A few weeks ago the bikers had a protest on a weekend because they had work to go to on a weekday...
Now i see the "students" are going to camp outside the Dept of Education? What about that course that your parents are paying for you to attend?

Mycroft H

I suppose the logic is that most students go off home on the weekend.

However I don't agree with the actual motives of the protest myself, I don't support it and the amount of waste in the USI from these protests...

kub

King Ludvig wrote: »

Not according to today's Independent...



http://www.independent.ie/national-news/lives-will-be-lost-warns-gaybo-2935681.html

I for one have noticed a lot less TC vehicles on the roads over the last few months. Also while passing the local HQ, have seen on average 5 or 6 TC vehicles parked up, this at any given time of the day or night.
Something I would not have seen 2 years ago.

It is a shame actually now, after all that high profile advertising, all the dolled up TC vehicles and of course the actions of the TC Gardai in reducing those figures they will rise once again.

That ' I might get caught' thought is leaving peoples heads now as they drink or speed too much. That visibility that was present a few years ago is now gone.

It is going to be a sad winter on our roads.

eroo

goldie fish wrote: »

Why weren't they in lectures?
A few weeks ago the bikers had a protest on a weekend because they had work to go to on a weekday...
Now i see the "students" are going to camp outside the Dept of Education? What about that course that your parents are paying for you to attend?

Hey, lets give credit where it's due.. They probably had to get up before midday after being out last night, and probably had to forego the afternoon visit to the off license. Oh, and never mind the lectures.. sure they're in college!!

maglite

They are there to protect from the student minority that think they should be entitled to something for nothing. (I say this as a recent Grad) When I was in Education I could't afford to take a couple days off to walk around the street or pitch a camp, I was busy learning. This coupled with the large majority of students who couldn't be arsed to get up and learn how to vote make their childish protest worthless.


Look at the London riots to see why so many Gardaí were around.

TylerIE

pog it wrote: »

When you see that a demonstration is vastly smaller than you expected do you not decrease the number of guards you have called in for it?

You dont know how many people will be there till shortly after it starts - If your resources are already in place its a bit late then.

If they are "called in" as you say then, like most professions who are called in, they will need to be paid for a certain period anyway. They may have given up family time or rest time activities (difficult enough to schedule with their shifts) so if called in then they do deserve a few hours overtime....

pog it

goldie fish wrote: »

Why weren't they in lectures?

Lectures are for the most part over. Exams coming up soon.

deadwood

TylerIE wrote: »

They may have given up family time or rest time ....

Even tee times have been sacrificed in the past.

starviewadams

Tried to get something to eat after work in town yesterday,and Eddie Rockets off Grafton Street and Captain America's and TGI Friday's were packed with ''hard up'' students dressed in their protest gear quaffing jugs of cocktales like money was no object.

Really hope their funding isn't cut,it might force them to order off the eurosaver menu at McDonalds!

wicklaman83

eroo wrote: »

goldie fish wrote: »

Why weren't they in lectures?
A few weeks ago the bikers had a protest on a weekend because they had work to go to on a weekday...
Now i see the "students" are going to camp outside the Dept of Education? What about that course that your parents are paying for you to attend?

Hey, lets give credit where it's due.. They probably had to get up before midday after being out last night, and probably had to forego the afternoon visit to the off license. Oh, and never mind the lectures.. sure they're in college!!

Ya ****in arsehole wannabe guard. Thats all ya are. Wasnt long ago you were stating here that you were a student.


Banned for 3 days for personal abuse.

Turner

BrianD

Zambia wrote: »

So students wanting more money for college from the public purse. Have a demo that takes money from the public purse. People have to get smarter about how they do things.

That remark is beneath contempt. We live a democratic society and have the right to protest. We pay the Gardai anyway.

There is certainly need of review in the college fees area but there's no point in cutting fees and sticking those people on the dole. That's going to cost over 7k for everyone.

WHat's the smart solution you suggest?

Zambia

BrianD wrote: »

That remark is beneath contempt. We live a democratic society and have the right to protest. We pay the Gardai anyway.

There is certainly need of review in the college fees area but there's no point in cutting fees and sticking those people on the dole. That's going to cost over 7k for everyone.

WHat's the smart solution you suggest?

How is that beneath contempt ? You are being a bit melodramatic there. As you can see by the majority of the responses here albeit its a one sided forum.
The protest is gaining little public support. Its tied up a lot of resources. I doubt those resources were all on overtime they probably were taken out of the suburbs were they are badly needed. The protest option especially after London has a sinister ring to it.

The world has changed a lot since the 1990's. There is a lot more access to media social and other wise. Maybe they could start there. Just because I state you should not do something is does not mean I am bound to supply an alternative.

All people see at present is a unruly Mob marching through Dublin shouting "Show me the Money"

That they have to pay/sacrifice police to keep in line.

Turner

darren254 wrote: »

Ya ****in arsehole wannabe guard. Thats all ya are. Wasnt long ago you were stating here that you were a student.

Banned for 3 days for personal abuse.

starviewadams

starviewadams wrote: »

Tried to get something to eat after work in town yesterday,and Eddie Rockets off Grafton Street and Captain America's and TGI Friday's were packed with ''hard up'' students dressed in their protest gear quaffing jugs of cocktales like money was no object.

Really hope their funding isn't cut,it might force them to order off the eurosaver menu at McDonalds!

I believe Harcourt Street was busier than normal too that night.

BrianD

Zambia wrote: »

How is that beneath contempt ? You are being a bit melodramatic there. As you can see by the majority of the responses here albeit its a one sided forum.
The protest is gaining little public support. Its tied up a lot of resources. I doubt those resources were all on overtime they probably were taken out of the suburbs were they are badly needed. The protest option especially after London has a sinister ring to it.

The world has changed a lot since the 1990's. There is a lot more access to media social and other wise. Maybe they could start there. Just because I state you should not do something is does not mean I am bound to supply an alternative.

All people see at present is a unruly Mob marching through Dublin shouting "Show me the Money"

That they have to pay/sacrifice police to keep in line.

Little public support???

You seem to be adopting a somewhat unusual attitude to the right to public protest. The purpose of the protest is to bring attention to a very valid concern within society. As you have probably noticed that the world is on fire with anger towards how things are being done. From the TV reports, the protest seemed to be a well organised and not a mob as you seem to suggest. Yes, protests are noisy.

Plenty of unnecessary and stereotyped comments about students on this thread. Odd given the relatively high percentage of people in this country who can access third level. Don't forget that the state pays for the education of those who enlist in the Gardai. I'm sure if Gardai had to pay for their training there would be a bus joining the march from Templemore. They've also been quite happy to exercise their voice through the "blue flu" and other actions in the past to make their views known.

Where's the tie up of resources? That's what we have a police force for.

As regards social media? That's online protest and while I would be a supporter of social media, the reality is that the majority of people are not on social media. Social media does not change things. It's a communication tool. The Arab Spring, for example, was not caused by people tweeting or status updating the change was caused by people on the streets.

Obviously, we are not talking about political revolution here but a simple right to protest. I also find your remark about the London protests sinister itself.

da_hambo

Did you all see the shinners bullying the two guards today? they were doing some anti eu protest in Dublin.

They seemed to flood around the coppers, way too close for my liking.one of the guards had a bloody nose after taking a slap of a briefcase.

I hate mob mentality. . . They think they're anonymous and get braver because tolerance has to be higher etc.

goldie fish

Accident my hole.

Garda hurt during bailout protest

Monday, November 21, 2011 - 02:20 PM


A Garda officer sustained minor injuries during a Sinn Féin protest marking the one-year anniversary of the IMF bailout today.

Some 40 protesters gathered outside European Union House on Molesworth Street, Dublin, this afternoon and chained the front door shut.

In an attempt to open the door, the officer was hit in the face with a prop briefcase full of fake money that was being waved in the air by a protester mimicking the European bailout bosses.

Sinn Féin’s Seonach MacAodh, who organised the protest, said it was an accident that the officer sustained a bloodied lip.

“The guard came in when we were standing at the door,” he said.

“They thought we were going to go inside but we never were.

“They were holding us back from going nowhere.”

Mr Macaodh said the group had apologised to the officer. No official report was made to gardai.

“The unfortunate thing is these guys are getting hit as well,” said Mr Macaodh.

“They are paying their taxes and they’re getting hit with the Universal Social Charge.”

He said more peaceful and creative protests against Taoiseach Enda Kenny and Tánaiste Eamon Gilmore for their support for the IMF will be held in the run-up to Budget Day on December 6.


Read more: http://www.examiner.ie/breakingnews/ireland/garda-hurt-during-bailout-protest-529210.html#ixzz1eMf0dTpY

Hooch

goldie fish wrote: »

Accident my hole.

Agreed........

A Traffic biker and all!!! I must be pc being in my role...... but would love to speak my mind.....

BrianD

da_hambo wrote: »

Did you all see the shinners bullying the two guards today? they were doing some anti eu protest in Dublin.

They seemed to flood around the coppers, way too close for my liking.one of the guards had a bloody nose after taking a slap of a briefcase.

I hate mob mentality. . . They think they're anonymous and get braver because tolerance has to be higher etc.

This is the second time that SF members engaged in a confrontational protest with the Gardai. Rather bizarre given that they have a democratically elected members in the Dail to pursue this matters. This kind of rabble rousing is ridiculous ... the only other political parties that engage in this type of protest tend to be the lackeys of despots.

If you are looking for the type of folks who hijack legitimate protests then here they are.

Broadsheet.ie have more photos of what happened here.

Corruptable

Great attitude towards legitimate protest on here, could be summarised as "I don't agree with you so don't bother, I don't want to police your demonstration despite that being what I signed up for, in good times and in bad". I've partaken in health service and union marches in recent times, and the efforts of the gardai in organising are appreciated, even if it's not easily visible.

The minor injury of the Garda during the Shinners protest PR stunt is unfortunate and shows an irresponsibility when it comes to safely managing such a protest, but everyone cannot be painted with the same brush because of the moron with the briefcase. At least an apology was issued and the incident was recognised by the organiser, although looking at the photos on the Broadsheet website, more concern or assistance wouldn't have gone astray.

Corruptable

Corruptable wrote: »

Great attitude towards legitimate protest on here, could be summarised as "I don't agree with you so don't bother, I don't want to police your demonstration despite that being what I signed up for, in good times and in bad". I've partaken in health service and union marches in recent times, and the efforts of the gardai in organising are appreciated, even if it's not easily visible.

I actually signed up to fight crime and make the streets safer but whatever.

Corruptable

foreign wrote: »

I actually signed up to fight crime and make the streets safer but whatever.

That's good, that's exactly what your doing when you're policing a demonstration as well. Preventing crime, breaches of the peace, and protecting the public when they choose to use their safe streets in accordance with their constitutional rights. I would think that such a important public duty would be a positive experience and a privilege to perform.

We could argue all day and night about it, but it's an important right which is necessary and which unfortunately requires policing. I think it's fair to say that the majority of times participants aren't abusive and aren't out to make things difficult for Gardai, and it's utterly unacceptable for anyone who carries on that way, and they should be reprimanded by fellow participants or stewards. If the person (or organisers) involved in the incident above were serious about the message of their protest and conveying their apology, they should donate to the Garda Benevolent Fund of their own volition.

dubguffer

Corruptable wrote: »

That's good, that's exactly what your doing when you're policing a demonstration as well. Preventing crime, breaches of the peace, and protecting the public when they choose to use their safe streets in accordance with their constitutional rights. I would think that such a important public duty would be a positive experience and a privilege to perform.

We could argue all day and night about it, but it's an important right which is necessary and which unfortunately requires policing. I think it's fair to say that the majority of times participants aren't abusive and aren't out to make things difficult for Gardai, and it's utterly unacceptable for anyone who carries on that way, and they should be reprimanded by fellow participants or stewards. If the person (or organisers) involved in the incident above were serious about the message of their protest and conveying their apology, they should donate to the Garda Benevolent Fund of their own volition.

I'm sure there are plenty of decent guys who have joined up and actually do the job they swore an oath to do, We seen that a couple of weeks ago with that young guy who lost his life trying to help people out during the floods.. and, he off duty at the time.. but you have to admit,there are plenty of guys and gals who joined up for the pension,the power buzz etc...and more time than most these people can be equally responsible for causing trouble at events such as this and they also should be reprimanded by their superiors and that my friend is never seen to happen. and we certainly would'nt receive an apology or have a donation into the students benevolent fund or any other fund

Corruptable

dubguffer wrote: »

I'm sure there are plenty of decent guys who have joined up and actually do the job they swore an oath to do, We seen that a couple of weeks ago with that young guy who lost his life trying to help people out during the floods.. and, he off duty at the time.. but you have to admit,there are plenty of guys and gals who joined up for the pension,the power buzz etc...and more time than most these people can be equally responsible for causing trouble at events such as this and they also should be reprimanded by their superiors and that my friend is never seen to happen. and we certainly would'nt receive an apology or have a donation into the students benevolent fund or any other fund

Well there are bad apples in all groups of people whether protesters or gardai, but I don't think there's a whole lot of incentive. But there's a difference between carrying out a lawful order which someone fails to comply with, and acting beyond the law.

If in the former there are mechanisms available and gradually widening, such as the Garda Siochana Ombudsman Commission as well as civil redress from the Courts.