Budget proposal's from SF

caseyann

All workers earning up to €75,000 will be better off under budget plans drawn up by Sinn Féin, the party claimed today.

It has proposed a €100,000 cap on public sector pay, the abolition of the universal social charge, a 1 per cent wealth tax and a third 48 per cent tax rate targeting the better off.

Finance spokesman Pearse Doherty said the measures would go towards funding a €7 billion jobs package while protecting lower- and middle-income earners.

Arguing for the universal social charge to be scrapped, Mr Doherty said the reintroduction of the health levy and income levy, at a lower rate of 1 per cent on income up to €75,000, would be fairer.

The €7 billion jobs stimulus programme would come from €5.3 billion from the National Pension Reserve Fund and another €1.7 billion from the European Investment Bank, the party said.

Sinn Féin said the three-year investment plan would create 60,000 jobs and thousands more indirectly while saving 96,000 jobs.

A further €2.5 billion would be pumped into rolling out high-speed broadband with another €1 billion injected into wind generation projects, creating 50,000 jobs over 15 years.

The party has ruled out household and water charges, VAT increases, any rise in student fees, septic tank charges and excise duty increases. It also vowed not to reduce social welfare, frontline public services and the capital budget.

Sinn Féin also said it would provide for every child in the state to get a free hot meal at lunchtime in school as well as a money-saving book scheme.

Promising to lift the recruitment freeze on nurses, teachers and gardaí, the party said it would create 3,500 extra frontline jobs. It also outlined plans to build 150 new State-run creches, 100 more schools, with the refurbishment of another 75, and the construction of 50 new healthcare centres.

Government salaries would be capped at €100,000, TDs at €75,000 and senators at €60,000, it states in its pre-Budget submission.



Interesting read.
Just wondering how many of you can see something wrong with these proposals.Or what do you think?
As i am not an economist i can only read what i see,and it looks like the right road to follow.

Whats Ffail and fgfail and labour etc.. proposals and what do you think of them.
Can you see some in one parties proposals or two or three that can mesh with other parties ideas to create a proper and intelligent budget without cutting the legs off the people while propping themselves and the bankers and bond holders on their golden thrones.
Simply put i like SF ideas but i couldnt tell you if they will work.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2011/1115/breaking42.html

murphaph

I like the proposals to reduce politicians pay and think they're easily implementable but the rest seems very fanciful. More spend spend spend and "pay for it all with some sort of tax the rich scheme".

The hot meal for every kid sounds great but in practice this means a canteen and the staff to man it in EVERY school-this would be pretty darned expensive and add in the usual health and safety hoops to be jumped through would only add to the cost.

SF know they will never have to implement any of their scatterbrain proposals so they can propose them with impunity.

caseyann

murphaph wrote: »

I like the proposals to reduce politicians pay and think they're easily implementable but the rest seems very fanciful. More spend spend spend and "pay for it all with some sort of tax the rich scheme".

The hot meal for every kid sounds great but in practice this means a canteen and the staff to man it in EVERY school-this would be pretty darned expensive and add in the usual health and safety hoops to be jumped through would only add to the cost.

SF know they will never have to implement any of their scatterbrain proposals so they can propose them with impunity.

I wouldnt exactly call them scatter brained and this is only an over view of what they want to install.
As far as i can see they have the figures to back it up.So not scatter brained.

Must spend to create and to make jobs and to bring in money also.

But you have every right to see it as fanciful.

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

caseyann

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

Did you come to partake in the thread and its subject or to take digs,yet not be giving any proper reasons or say why or what wont work.

Vizzy

caseyann wrote: »

Did you come to partake in the thread and its subject or to take digs,yet not be giving any proper reasons or say why or what wont work.

Anyone earning less than €75,000 would be better off ??

How can we afford this.
Do you think if FG or Labour ( or God forbid) FF could swing this that they would be putting a Budget together to take €3.6 bn out of the economy and not one where could could put another €5 bn into "job creation"
"Back of a fag box economics"

Slydice

I think it sounds like it would go down very popularly for the majority of people in the country. I'd say there'll be a fair amount of bluster and talking down the proposals. Though saying that... I'd say 75k a year is fair game in a lot of peoples minds.

D1stant

I presume that SF have at least tried to balance this budget somewhere in terms of spend versus savings?

Or are they counting on default to 'save' on expenditure?

If you raise tax rates for high earners by 8% (7+1) many of them will leave. Totally counterproductive and populist. Are they taking advice from Bertie?

caseyann

Vizzy wrote: »

Anyone earning less than €75,000 would be better off ??

How can we afford this.
Do you think if FG or Labour ( or God forbid) FF could swing this that they would be putting a Budget together to take €3.6 bn out of the economy and not one where could could put another €5 bn into "job creation"
"Back of a fag box economics"

Oh i am hundred percent sure they would watch their own backs and lick the butts of everyone and screw Irish rather than do anything to upset their happy balance in life.As you can see with their big payout last week.:rolleyes:

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

murphaph

Slydice wrote: »

Though saying that... I'd say 75k a year is fair game in a lot of peoples minds.

Which is exactly why SF picked that particular figure

caseyann

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

Do you honestly believe they have not got their ideas and plans and figures and facts to back it up?They hand over the full plans.Its not just written as is in newspaper.
It is very easy to say pie in sky.Have you studied their plans in dept?
You seem to just want it to fail and throw muck at anything suggested that is to take from rich anymore.

BeeDI

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

I could come up with all sorts of amazing ideas if I were a small party in opposition with a credulous, economically illiterate, working-class support base. It's not hard to figure out how to spend other people's money in crowd-pleasing ways.

Hasn't Pearse Doherty been Sinn Fein's finance spokesperson for well over a year by now? And yet he still doesn't seem to have learned the first thing about macroeconomics, or even arithmetic.[/Quote]
Not much difference between SF and current government in many respects. They are both bank robbers. Shinners robbed the Northern Bank. Baldy Noonan, robbed our pension funds.
What's the difference?

D1stant

caseyann wrote: »

Do you honestly believe they have not got their ideas and plans and figures and facts to back it up?They hand over the full plans.Its not just written as is in newspaper.
It is very easy to say pie in sky.Have you studied their plans in dept?
You seem to just want it to fail and throw muck at anything suggested that is to take from rich anymore.

Do you have a link to the details?

Vizzy

BeeDI wrote: »

Not much difference between SF and current government in many respects. They are both bank robbers. Shinners robbed the Northern Bank. Baldy Noonan, robbed our pension funds.
What's the difference?

Northern Bank robbers got more

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

WalterMitty

I heard this TASC woman on radio about their pre budget submission. She wouldnt when pressed agree to a max public sector wage of 100k, and said CPA was producing savings. I heard her day earlier saying that TASC was all about "equality " and they were calling for "Equality audits" on budgets etc etc and i felt like shouting at the radio "what about equality(in terms of pay and pensions) between private sector and public sector?!!!".
Im sure this TASC crowd are full of sociology lecturers on 100k+ salaries with rolls royce pensions.

gerryo777

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

WHAT A SNOB!!!

gerryo777

gerryo777 wrote: »

WHAT A SNOB!!!

I could permabear, but I'm not going to, waste my time.

Godge

caseyann wrote: »

I wouldnt exactly call them scatter brained and this is only an over view of what they want to install.
As far as i can see they have the figures to back it up.So not scatter brained.

Must spend to create and to make jobs and to bring in money also.

But you have every right to see it as fanciful.

I wouldn't call them scatterbrained either, delusional would be closer to the mark.

For a start, there isn't €5.3 billion left in the National Pension Reserve Fund. Secondly, the European Investment Bank isn't insane and wouldn't lend a SF Government €1.7 billion. Bang goes the investment fund.

Public service numbers are now just under 300,000 according to RTE today. Assume 2% of these (doubt it is as high as that) which gives you 6,000 public servants. Say the average pay is 120,000. That gives a pay saving of 6,000 by 20,000 which is €120m. 3,500 extra frontline jobs at an average cost of 40,000 costs €140m. Loss of €20m on that proposal alone.

Where is the €2.5 billion for high-speed broadband to come from and the €1 billion for wind generation? Print our own euros maybe?

Next the 1% wealth tax. Those with real wealth will move it outside the country. That leaves ordinary houses. Having seen the written screams on boards about a €100 household charge, how many people are going to welcome a €3,000 wealth tax on their house worth €300,000? Oh and payable every year. Otherwise a wealth tax will not raise any real money.

Maybe the SF proposals will be saved by the discovery of oil and gas off the west coast of Ireland, oh yeah, when we take back the licences.

K-9

caseyann wrote: »

It has proposed a €100,000 cap on public sector pay, the abolition of the universal social charge, a 1 per cent wealth tax and a third 48 per cent tax rate targeting the better off.

No major problem with that. The salary cap is nice, would save maybe €100 Million tops, though of course that means that €100 Million is gone out of the economy.

They aren't abolishing the USC, bit of a cop out, just reintroducing the levies. Tbh the USC is a fairer system, though some issues. Wealth tax, all down to the implementation and as long as its based on up to date figures.

Finance spokesman Pearse Doherty said the measures would go towards funding a €7 billion jobs package while protecting lower- and middle-income earners.

Arguing for the universal social charge to be scrapped, Mr Doherty said the reintroduction of the health levy and income levy, at a lower rate of 1 per cent on income up to €75,000, would be fairer.

Maybe, but you aren't really scrapping the USC.

The €7 billion jobs stimulus programme would come from €5.3 billion from the National Pension Reserve Fund and another €1.7 billion from the European Investment Bank, the party said.

Sinn Féin said the three-year investment plan would create 60,000 jobs and thousands more indirectly while saving 96,000 jobs.

A further €2.5 billion would be pumped into rolling out high-speed broadband with another €1 billion injected into wind generation projects, creating 50,000 jobs over 15 years.

Sounds okay.

The party has ruled out household and water charges, VAT increases, any rise in student fees, septic tank charges and excise duty increases. It also vowed not to reduce social welfare, frontline public services and the capital budget.

Not many could argue with that! Sure who wouldn't find that nice and fair.

Sinn Féin also said it would provide for every child in the state to get a free hot meal at lunchtime in school as well as a money-saving book scheme.

Nice.

Promising to lift the recruitment freeze on nurses, teachers and gardaí, the party said it would create 3,500 extra frontline jobs. It also outlined plans to build 150 new State-run creches, 100 more schools, with the refurbishment of another 75, and the construction of 50 new healthcare centres.

Those extra jobs would add about €120 Million to the pay roll, suppose that's where the 100k cap goes.

Sully

Couple of things here. The EU Investment Bank they are talking about to get money from will be part of burning those Anglo Irish promissory notes. But, the troika made it clear that we must meet the Ango Irish Bank obligations to continue with the bailout programme. The European Investment Bank is the European Union's Bank. One would assume that access to such wont be possible if we stick the finger up to the EU on the promissory notes.

They are also suggesting raising taxes by €3B and cuts of €1billion (what about this whole "You cant tax your way out of a recession"?). What about future budgets? If you wanted to close the deficit with higher taxes you'd need a marginal tax rate of 75% on incomes over €70,000 and vat increases to 40%. Small business groups are calling on the government not to increase tax, as it will have a disastrous affect on the economy and hamper recovery.

Sinn Fein are putting together a bunch of really cool sounding ideas that people will read and say "HEY! Why cant we do that? **** the government!". Stripping the gloss aside, its riddled with holes, contradictions and one of these areas where trying to fix one problem results in another issue arising further down the line. Bit like fixing a leak, and then the pressure results in another spring which when fixed causes another spring etc.

All talk, but unrealistic. I don't think Sinn Fein are stupid (at least I hope not) - its just misleading the public with glossy figures and text that they wont be able to see behind. They know full well its not realistic and its all about scoring points and inflecting any bit of damage possible.

K-9

Sully wrote: »

They are also suggesting raising taxes by €3B and cuts of €1billion (what about this whole "You cant tax your way out of a recession"?). What about future budgets? If you wanted to close the deficit with higher taxes you'd need a marginal tax rate of 75% on incomes over €70,000 and vat increases to 40%. Small business groups are calling on the government not to increase tax, as it will have a disastrous affect on the economy and hamper recovery.

The other odd thing is that people on big incomes in the PS are paying about 65% tax between PAYE/PRSI, USC and pension levies. The saving in cutting those high wages is about 35% to the exchequer, not the full wage as I say SF are spinning.

fliball123

K-9 wrote: »

The other odd thing is that people on big incomes in the PS are paying about 65% tax between PAYE/PRSI, USC and pension levies. The saving in cutting those high wages is about 35% to the exchequer, not the full wage as I say SF are spinning.

Well anyone either PS or private sector paying 65% of their wage in tax and please the pension levy is a contribtion to a defined benefit...So its say 58% then they can well afford it

Geuze

D1stant wrote: »

If you raise tax rates for high earners by 8% (7+1) many of them will leave. Totally counterproductive and populist. Are they taking advice from Bertie?

The top marginal tax rate would increase from 41 to 48, yes.

But wouldn't the USC be abolished?


So the new overall top marginal rate would be 48 tax + 4 PRSI + 1 levy = 53%.

That's just 1% more than now (41 + 4 + 7 = 52).

forfuxsake

Sinn Fein are economically illiterate and delusional. Why anybody would think otherwise is beyond me.

Just ask any banker, they know all about finance because they went to university, and he will tell you why you should never trust them with tax-payers hard-earned money.

Failing that go to Fine Gael, they can explain how those more economically literate than Sinn Fein/IRA/AL Qaeda, can lose 3.6 billion euro and then find it before they even noticed they had lost it.

or Fianna Fail, who are so economically literate they have now left government for the more lucrative employment of going round the globe giving lectures on the secret to economic success.

or Labour who know full well that the only way we can recover is to introduce harsher conditions for those who might create jobs.

or if all else fails go to the economic powerhouse that is Germany and get them to explain again the one about how economic growth can be stimulated through cutting spending.

Sinn Fein are not only economic literate, they are so economically illiterate they don't even understand the financial prosperity we are facing.

K-9

fliball123 wrote: »

Well anyone either PS or private sector paying 65% of their wage in tax and please the pension levy is a contribtion to a defined benefit...So its say 58% then they can well afford it

My point isn't whether they can afford it, I actually agree with the idea, it's just that it wont get the saving that people think. It's a bit like when the pension levy came in, the Government didn't factor in the drop in tax receipts from introducing it!

Anyway, the SF proposal aren't really saving anything as they'll just employ another 3,500 PS's on an average of 30-35k each!

Godge

Geuze wrote: »

The top marginal tax rate would increase from 41 to 48, yes.

But wouldn't the USC be abolished?


So the new overall top marginal rate would be 48 tax + 4 PRSI + 1 levy = 53%.

That's just 1% more than now (41 + 4 + 7 = 52).

Well, if you are right, this new proposal will hardly raise any money at all so there will be nothing to pay for all of SF's other mad proposals.

A 1% increase in the top rate will only gain you €100m. The reduction in tax for everyone else will cost €1 bn.

Slydice

Godge wrote: »

For a start, there isn't €5.3 billion left in the National Pension Reserve Fund.

hmmm, well... the NPRF looks like it reckons it does...
National Pensions Reserve Fund - Quarterly Portfolio and Performance Update at 30 September 2011
http://www.nprf.ie/Publications/2011/Q3_2011_Performance_and_Portfolio_update.pdf

The Discretionary Portfolio (the Fund excluding the public policy investments in Allied Irish Banks
and Bank of Ireland) was valued at €5.3 billion at 30 September 2011.

I'd say that's where Pearse (oh and SF cos no doubt they've got a crack team ... lol) got his figure from.

No surprise on the reactions to this proposal. rabble rabble must be crap etc

dlofnep

Sully wrote: »

All talk, but unrealistic. I don't think Sinn Fein are stupid (at least I hope not) - its just misleading the public with glossy figures and text that they wont be able to see behind. They know full well its not realistic and its all about scoring points and inflecting any bit of damage possible.

That's cheap, coming from a member of a political party that built their entire election campaign on lies and promises that they could not fulfil.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5LTCT7QIeP8

K-9

dlofnep wrote: »

That's cheap, coming from a member of a political party that built their entire election campaign on lies and promises that they could not fulfil.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5LTCT7QIeP8

Care to actually explain how the plan would work rather than attack other parties.

Personally I'm very cynical of left wing or right wing plans to get us out of this mess.

dlofnep

K-9 wrote: »

Care to actually explain how the plan would work rather than attack other parties.

It was in response to an attack against Sinn Féin. The premise being that Sinn Féin are the 'economic illiterates' of Irish politics and are making promises that cannot be kept. Frankly, I'm sick and tired of this line constantly being pushed. Sinn Féin has many talented politicians within it's ranks, who are economically as savvy as any other.

Fine Gael recently handed over €718 million to ungauranteed bondholders, to a financial institution which Fine Gael flat out stated would not receive anymore funding and now wants to extend the banking guarantee. The working class is taking the blunt of it, and we're tired of it. Cutbacks in services, no work opportunities, and more and more charges every week coming out destroying any slightly disposable income we might have had. A huge portion of our talented and educated youth are emigrating because of lack of opportunity.

How on earth are we expected to see any real growth in the economy when the working class, the majority of the population is being squeezed? Fine Gael has absolutely no method to address our lack of growth. It's time to start prioritising what's more important.

I don't agree that we can resolve all of our problems by over-taxing the wealthy - but I think at times of hardship, certain alterations can be made. I absolutely agree with caps on top level public servants. I would prefer to see cuts being made at a top-down approach. If you keep hitting the working class - there will be no disposable income to keep the economy and local business afloat.

Moreover - Their figures on the NPRF is actually accurate. I don't know why they continuously get attacked on this issue. People parroting the same old bollocks. They refuse to fact-check before attacking a SF proposal.

We cannot sustain our current levels of debt. At least Sinn Féin recognises it. But yet - the charade continues as if all this debt lumped on top of us is manageable. It isn't, and the Irish public is paying for it.

Maybe SF has problems with some policies, but their heart is in the right place - and they are looking out for the public, rather than for the elite.

Sully

Yet again, all talk and nothing of substance from Sinn Fein. Your defense is to attack, attack, attack rather than respond to the points raised by many here and point out where we are incorrect in saying such. Plus its a rehash of the same video each and every time.

Part of the problem with the bondholders links directly to the promissory notes for Anglo Irish. There wasn't a hope the troika were going to let us burn the bondholders and tbh, even if they did, we have far bigger issues down the line we need to be seeking deals on.

K-9

Fair enough. Tbh it's the middle classes that are getting squeezed.

Can you go through the proposals and comment on them. Would make for a better thread.

dlofnep

Sully wrote: »

Yet again, all talk and nothing of substance from Sinn Fein. Your defense is to attack, attack, attack rather than respond to the points raised by many here and point out where we are incorrect in saying such.

How exactly is it nothing of substance? I've raised many valid concerns about the decisions of the current Government, and the effect that it has on the people.

Sully wrote: »

Plus its a rehash of the same video each and every time.

It's the only video I have at convenience. It doesn't change the point - Fine Gael went into the elections with rhetoric promising change, promising that junior and senior bondholders would be hit left, right and centre, and promising that Anglo Irish would not receive anymore funding. It's all good and well to say they had no other choice - but that is not what they got elected for, and not the basis of why they were elected.

Sully wrote: »

Part of the problem with the bondholders links directly to the promissory notes for Anglo Irish. There wasn't a hope the troika were going to let us burn the bondholders and tbh, even if they did, we have far bigger issues down the line we need to be seeking deals on.

That is not our problem. We were not under any circumstances legally obliged to pay that debt. All you have done is burdened Ireland with even more debt. You fail to see that Ireland's biggest problem right now is unsustainable levels of debt, but yet you continue to lump more debt on us. You're simply not fighting for the Irish people in Europe. You're not listening to the Irish people, and instead are only opening your ears to members of the European political establishment. Your arrogance is quite frankly disturbing.

How about listening to the electorate? Living up to your promises? Doing what you said you would prior to the elections? Try make a change, and stop being an echo of Fianna Fáil, because right now - that's all you are. I absolutely dislike Fine Gael as a party, but they would have my respect if they stood up for the Irish people, and lived up to their promises. They simply haven't done that.

caseyann

K-9 wrote: »

Fair enough. Tbh it's the middle classes that are getting squeezed.

Can you go through the proposals and comment on them. Would make for a better thread.

This is what i am hoping for non slating actual comments on the subject and comparisons on the budgets being offered up by opposition.

earlyevening

Geuze wrote: »

The top marginal tax rate would increase from 41 to 48, yes.

But wouldn't the USC be abolished?


So the new overall top marginal rate would be 48 tax + 4 PRSI + 1 levy = 53%.

That's just 1% more than now (41 + 4 + 7 = 52).

SFs proposed top rate would be 48% tax, 6% income levy, 4%PRSI plus 5% health levy. Thats 63%!

Dont know where you get the idea that the income levy plus health levy was 1%

PS. Now the top rate is 41+4+7 = 52, but there's 10% USC on the self employed so their top rate is 55%

K-9

caseyann wrote: »

This is what i am hoping for non slating actual comments on the subject and comparisons on the budgets being offered up by opposition.

This is the thing caseyann. I don't think SF supporters want to go through the proposals point by point, they know it wont stand up to analysis from the actual people who can point out the problems with it.

I amn't having a go at SF here. Funny enough I've posted the exact same points at right wingers who post "cut, cut, cut" without actually thinking it through.

I think the problem is when you actually look at left wing and right wing solutions the more and more I go, sh*t, neither of them have a fecking clue! It all ends up in the same place. We are truely fecked.

K-9

earlyevening wrote: »

SFs proposed top rate would be 48% tax, 6% income levy, 4%PRSI plus 5% health levy. Thats 63%!

Dont know where you get the idea that the income levy plus health levy was 1%

PS. Now the top rate is 41+4+7 = 52, but there's 10% USC on the self employed so their top rate is 55%

There's no mention of the now abolished income levy in the piece. The USC replaced the Income levy.

skafish

Leopards and spot changing come to mind!!!:D
It would be good to see some action on bloated pensions of the retired government ministers. Also, it would be interesting to see some action on the number of people in recipt of a state pension also working in state jobs..... eg retired Guards driving school busses, former Naval officers in the coast guard, etc. All with fine pensions, and a state job leading to another pension in the future. While 450 000 people can't get a job

caseyann

K-9 wrote: »

This is the thing caseyann. I don't think SF supporters want to go through the proposals point by point, they know it wont stand up to analysis from the actual people who can point out the problems with it.

I amn't having a go at SF here. Funny enough I've posted the exact same points at right wingers who post "cut, cut, cut" without actually thinking it through.

I think the problem is when you actually look at left wing and right wing solutions the more and more I go, sh*t, neither of them have a fecking clue! It all ends up in the same place. We are truely fecked.

So whats the problem with taking some of SF proposals and ideas and meshing them with some of FG and god help us FF and Labour and independents etc.. Proposals.To find the solutions that make for good sound political humane and economic intelligent ideas.And no for the EU or banks or the bond holders but the actual people.
I am SF supporter and i am open to proper ideas.I dont just support SF proposals because they are SF.I support them because i trust them more than i trust the others and i trust them to have the right ideas and the back up in their claims to do what they say or not stir to far away from them as FG and Labour are doing now and FF did in past.

I would assume if someone who has the economic know how to question SF on such matters of where and what and how with proper figures etc.. and be able to read them properly.They would answer them.
But people instead of actually who say they know about all of this and they are pipe dreams and fanciful dont just email and ask.

dlofnep

K-9 wrote: »

Fair enough. Tbh it's the middle classes that are getting squeezed.

No doubt they are - But the working class is being hit hard. This isn't disputable.

K-9 wrote: »

Can you go through the proposals and comment on them. Would make for a better thread.

Well - I agree with investment into sustainable energy projects. This has the potential to benefit Ireland in the long run, and provide employment and training opportunities for many in the medium term.

I would like to see investment into local small to medium sized enterprises, and more pressure put on banks to start giving out loans.

I feel that too many charges will directly impact the working class, lowering their disposable income - and reducing the amount they invest into the local economy. I feel that their importance in keeping the economy afloat is greatly underestimated.

I agree that while the salaries for politicians would be tokenistic - that token would actually have merit, as it would demonstrate that politicians are willing to share the burden on a real meaningful level. People find it condescending to have all these cuts impacted on them, while the politicians who tell them that they are necessary still live lavish lifestyles. The public wants to see empathy from our politicians - sincere empathy.

With regards to student fees - I think that education is not a short-term investment, but rather a long term investment. If someone has no employment opportunities, and cannot afford third-level education - they will either remain on the dole or emigrate. I would much rather that someone was earning a degree than being stuck on the dole.

Is there any policies in particular you'd like me to comment on? FTR - I'm not an actual registered member of SF at the moment. My health is too poor for me to engage with politics - it depresses me, hence my lack of participation in this forum as of late - So I'm not entirely up to scratch on everything.

loldog

Vizzy wrote: »

"Back of a fag box economics"

Really? And what were the economics that got us into this mess written on?

.

Sleepy

dlofnep, if half of these proposals were viable don't you think FG / Labour would be implementing them and guaranteeing their re-election?

Sully

dlofnep wrote: »

How exactly is it nothing of substance? I've raised many valid concerns about the decisions of the current Government, and the effect that it has on the people.

That's great and all, but we are talking about Sinn Feins budget proposal here. Part of the budget has been examined and rubbished, and your only response was to knock Fine Gael rather than address the issues raised about the SF budget proposal.

It's the only video I have at convenience. It doesn't change the point - Fine Gael went into the elections with rhetoric promising change, promising that junior and senior bondholders would be hit left, right and centre, and promising that Anglo Irish would not receive anymore funding. It's all good and well to say they had no other choice - but that is not what they got elected for, and not the basis of why they were elected.

Indeed, and while Sinn Fein might say they would go in and tell everyone to feck awf they are doing their own thing -- this government is sticking by the agreement signed in by Fianna Fail. As a result, some things FG wanted changed because of said agreement (though it would look like they got concessions, but not all their way) and because of Labours policies differing. Both parties had set out an agenda without knowing the full facts (something they complained about in the run up to the election) and while it pisses me off that they made some right cockups in election promises - it was never going to be the FG or Labour way as advertised seeing as its a merger of both.

That is not our problem. We were not under any circumstances legally obliged to pay that debt. All you have done is burdened Ireland with even more debt. You fail to see that Ireland's biggest problem right now is unsustainable levels of debt, but yet you continue to lump more debt on us. You're simply not fighting for the Irish people in Europe. You're not listening to the Irish people, and instead are only opening your ears to members of the European political establishment. Your arrogance is quite frankly disturbing.

I am? Wow, I never knew I had that much power on my hands. But seriously, its all about playing the game and lumping something here to get a concession down the road. The "Feck awf" approach is something they don't want to do, for sure, and they have their reasons. Should never have promised it.

How about listening to the electorate? Living up to your promises? Doing what you said you would prior to the elections? Try make a change, and stop being an echo of Fianna Fáil, because right now - that's all you are. I absolutely dislike Fine Gael as a party, but they would have my respect if they stood up for the Irish people, and lived up to their promises. They simply haven't done that.

Well, with respect, the path the government has was set by the last administration.

Anyway, we are WAY off topic and people want you as the Sinn Fein supporter and activist on the forum to actually discuss the budget proposed by Sinn Fein, respond to points raised and stop knocking about other issues not relevant to this thread.

caseyann

Sleepy wrote: »

dlofnep, if half of these proposals were viable don't you think FG / Labour would be implementing them and guaranteeing their re-election?

The question is do you?
Havent they been backing the failed government while SF and others had been telling them bubble going to burst over how long maybe last 12 years or more?

Vizzy

loldog wrote: »

Really? And what were the economics that got us into this mess written on?

.

They were on a postage stamp

earlyevening

K-9 wrote: »

There's no mention of the now abolished income levy in the piece. The USC replaced the Income levy.

I'm listening to Pearse Doherty on Vincent Browne and he is explaining that they propose abolishing USC and reintroducing income levy and health levy.

Vizzy

caseyann wrote: »

The question is do you?
Havent they been backing the failed government while SF and others had been telling them bubble going to burst over how long maybe last 12 years or more?

What ?

They knew that the bubble was going to burst since 1999 when it didn't even start till about 2002.
They should go on the road.They would Keith Barry out of business in a month!

Sully

caseyann wrote: »

The question is do you?
Havent they been backing the failed government while SF and others had been telling them bubble going to burst over how long maybe last 12 years or more?

Richard Bruton did raise concerns as far back as 2005 (going by memory here, so no doubt it was raised before then also), in response to every budget speech delivered by Brian Cowen. He hit out in areas including the Celtic Tiger but also public sector reform, waste, and the impact of the construction bubble.

When the **** hit the fan, Fine Gael were hitting the government hard telling them to wake up.

caseyann

Vizzy wrote: »

What ?

They knew that the bubble was going to burst since 1999 when it didn't even start till about 2002.
They should go on the road.They would Keith Barry out of business in a month!

And what has that got to do with anything i said?

Sully wrote: »

Richard Bruton did raise concerns as far back as 2005 (going by memory here, so no doubt it was raised before then also), in response to every budget speech delivered by Brian Cowen. He hit out in areas including the Celtic Tiger but also public sector reform, waste, and the impact of the construction bubble.

When the **** hit the fan, Fine Gael were hitting the government hard telling them to wake up.

Only when the **** it fan,before that they were quite happy to go along with it and enjoy their fat wages and laze around drinking in bar.
They shouldnt be only hitting out when **** hit fan.That was when they saw a chance to look the good guys.
But thats off thread subject again.