Willie Penrose just resigned

Lockstep

Source


Dicey territory. The Mullingar barracks is a massive issue there so he'd be hammered if he stayed on but it seems bizarre to keep such a barracks open given the current economic state.

Thoughts?

anymore

Lockstep wrote: »

Source


Dicey territory. The Mullingar barracks is a massive issue there so he'd be hammered if he stayed on but it seems bizarre to keep such a barracks open given the current economic state.

Thoughts?

Well I suppose it shows more integrity than the Willie O Dea method of protesting loudly and vigorously and staying on in cabinet.

lakill Farm

Im from the area, i know Willie and i say fair play. Its a pity that Mr Troy TD does.

I guess it just shows that Willie Penrose does his job for the people not for the pay packet

View

Lockstep wrote: »

Source


Dicey territory. The Mullingar barracks is a massive issue there so he'd be hammered if he stayed on but it seems bizarre to keep such a barracks open given the current economic state.

Thoughts?

Inda should point out to the people in Mullingar that - with massive borrowings to fund it - the tax-payer has the money to pay for EITHER the barracks OR the local hospital but NOT both (And that without those massive borrowings, the tax-payer has NEITHER the monies to fund the barracks NOR the hospital).

steelcityblues

lakill Farm wrote: »

Im from the area, i know Willie and i say fair play. Its a pity that Mr Troy TD does.

I guess it just shows that Willie Penrose does his job for the people not for the pay packet

Nonsense. parish pump opportunism to the nth degree from Penrose.

If he runs again, he knows he can position himself as a guy shafted by 'Dublin', and try to keep his seat, when many of his colleagues could lose theirs.

Zubeneschamali

He's running in the next election already. I hope he gets destroyed.

Callan57

Here we go again ... parish pump politics & fxck the country :rolleyes:

imme

So, what did he accomplish in his time in Housing as a Junior Minister?

Pointless move which won't achieve anything, probably won't even get on the front page, if it does, readers will ask 'Willie who?'.

Ellis Dee

This is a sort of NIMBYism and a perfect example of the kind of parochial thinking that has Ireland screwed: "Cut somewhere else, don't look at things like defence within a national framework, but devote resources to my constituency and keep my voters happy.":rolleyes: If he were really sincere, he'd resign his Dáil seat and stand again in the bye-election that followed - at his own expense.:D

Doinker

lakill Farm wrote: »

Im from the area, i know Willie and i say fair play. Its a pity that Mr Troy TD does.

I guess it just shows that Willie Penrose does his job for the people not for the pay packet

And that job of his, is to legislate for the country, not jumping on local issues in order to get re-elected in the next G.E.

irishgrover

So folks, do you think he'd be resigning if the closures were in galway or cork or donegal?
Again it highlights the parish pump nature of national politics that will forever continue until local politics is reformed and given some real power.

swim2

I thought he just resigned from cabinet, and not his seat. So he will stay on as a TD and keep his pay packet...

lakill Farm

Doinker wrote: »

And that job of his, is to legislate for the country, not jumping on local issues in order to get re-elected in the next G.E.

Doinker, he primary job is to represent the people of Westmeath and Longford , and try and create some employment in the town.

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

Ellis Dee

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

A question that's occurred to me as well. Maybe it's to stop the Leitrim hordes if they ever rise up and launch an offensive towards Dublin.:):)

Zubeneschamali

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

We don't. Willie Penrose does.

imme

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

because being the centre of Ireland or near enough (keep quiet Athlone) it's the first place that the Russians will attack.

lakill Farm

Well isnt it as good in mullingar as any other area? (and im not involved with the army at all)

Why not move all the soldiers from all over the rest of the country to Ireland?

Im been genuine, but there isnt a dozen large scale employers (150 + employees) in mullingar

Riskymove

imme wrote: »

So, what did he accomplish in his time in Housing as a Junior Minister?

.

tbf I dont think there has been much focus on building houses in the six months or so since the Govt took power

phog

lakill Farm wrote: »

Im from the area, i know Willie and i say fair play. Its a pity that Mr Troy TD does.

I guess it just shows that Willie Penrose does his job for the people not for the pay packet

But surely the role of a minister is to represent the coutnry and what's best for the country not what might be good for Mullingar.

I'd love to hear him explain why we should borrow more or tax me more to keep a baracks open just to keep him in power.

lakill Farm

phog wrote: »

But surely the role of a minister is to represent the coutnry and what's best for the country not what might be good for Mullingar.

I'd love to hear him explain why we should borrow more or tax me more to keep a baracks open just to keep him in power.

So PHOG, why not close up LIT or UL and move them to mullingar.

But then again Willie " ill Shot who i want" ODea is probably more at fault than Willie Penrose for the borrowing more money.

Oh and by the way, as far as i know the land used for the barrack in mullingar is rented and it cant be sub rented and then you have the security issues like the closed down barracks in Longford

Riskymove

phog wrote: »

But surely the role of a minister is to represent the coutnry and what's best for the country not what might be good for Mullingar.

I'd love to hear him explain why we should borrow more or tax me more to keep a baracks open just to keep him in power.

he keeps using 'the figures' in this case

CROWD of about 1,000 people protested in Mullingar at the weekend over fears the Army’s Columb Barracks may be closed.

Clodagh Graham, whose husband is in Lebanon on his sixth tour of duty, said the presence in the midlands of 200 soldiers, 120 reservists and their families contributed €8 million to the local economy.

Army families, many on the family income supplement, could not bear the cost of increased travel expenses nor of moving children out of schools and creches and would be unable to sell their homes to move, she said.

Minister of State for Housing Willie Penrose said Mullingar’s 200-year military history could not be sacrificed for a proposal “which does not stand up to scrutiny”.

“Decisions should be based on evidence, on rationality and as to whether they make economic sense for the whole of society, not for just one department or organ of State,” he said.

A decision to close the barracks would not meet any of those criteria, while developing a barracks to receive the soldiers would cost “a blue fortune”.

He proposed developing the barracks, which has advanced communications structures, to support a training centre for the Reserve Defence Forces, Civil Defence or Red Cross.

so in other words, the barracks will be closed and these soldiers (and families) will have to move elsewhere and have new faciltities created for them...does that make economic sense?

Aidan1

he primary job is to represent the people of Westmeath and Longford , and try and create some employment in the town.

No, it's not. As Michael Ring (TD) found out when he took a case to the High Court, the role of the TD is to debate and make legislation in the Oireachtas, not to look after narrow local issues.

(Pretentiousness alert) Burke had it best, almost 240 years ago.

"Parliament is not a Congress of Ambassadors from different and hostile interests; which interests each must maintain, as an Agent and Advocate, against other Agents and Advocates; but Parliament is a deliberative Assembly of one Nation, with one Interest, that of the whole; where, not local Purposes, not local Prejudices ought to guide, but the general Good, resulting from the general Reason of the whole. "

GSF

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

in case we get invaded from the inside out perhaps?

irishh_bob

Lockstep wrote: »

Source


Dicey territory. The Mullingar barracks is a massive issue there so he'd be hammered if he stayed on but it seems bizarre to keep such a barracks open given the current economic state.

Thoughts?

parish pump local poltics at its best , no different to naughton resigning over the roscommon hospital issue some while back , penrose is ill and this gives him an extra bit of respect upon stepping down

Arfan

To dispel the joke posts about invasions a barracks is not the same thing as a fort. While troops may be quartered there it may not be the ideal defensive location.

Secondly a barracks being further inland would allow for early warning in the event bombers made a run at it.

Probably most relevant a centrally placed barracks would allow troops to be deployed to anywhere in Ireland with equal ease.

But hey, none of that matters as we all know this is a political issue.

irishh_bob

imme wrote: »

because being the centre of Ireland or near enough (keep quiet Athlone) it's the first place that the Russians will attack.

they say the american millitary keep most of the nukes in kansas , makes sense that we would store ours in the middle aswell :pac:

Soldie

It's great see that parochial politics is still alive and well. What with all that's happened in the country over the past few years I was afraid it would die out.

bijapos

I've two school friends in the Defence Forces and I know two others who have left. They all said the same thing: the country has too many barracks and training grounds, their resources should instead be contained in 3-4 centres instead of what goes on at present, it will save money long term, of course the thinking is that any money saved will be just cut from the budget next year. Just a short time ago there were barracks in Longford, Mullingar and Athlone. Total nonsense. Most of the soldiers will be moved to Athlone, about 35-40 mins away. Its not a big commute by any stretch.

Penrose is engaging in parish pump nonsense, the same as Naughton a few months ago, he should be trying to do right by the country, not by his constituency.

I said it last February that one of the best things about a FG/Lab government is that with such a large majority, the day to day running of the country cannot be held up pandering to parochial wishes of "renegade" TD's. This was one of the major faults of the last government with its slim majority.

GSF

Arfan wrote: »

Probably most relevant a centrally placed barracks would allow troops to be deployed to anywhere in Ireland with equal ease.

Althone isnt central enough?

filthymcnasty

This country is facing very difficult economic decisions and yet this guy can't bring himself to agree to close a barracks where nobody is losing their jobs and worse case scenario it seems they will have to commute an extra half hour to Athlone.

This is parochial politics at its basest level, whatever Penrose wants to call it.
If a relatively simple decision like this cannot be made without a resignation then what going to happen when the umpteen bigger ones are needed.
Just another example of why this country is fcuked.

spider guardian

Plenty of hyperbole from residents of Mullingar on the news now. So what if Mullingar has been a garrison town for 200 years, the country simply can't afford to keep all these barracks going, there are more pressing areas that need the money. This isn't just about cutbacks in a recession, it's about long-term viability as well.

Penrose only wants to keep his seat next time around, shafted by the big boys in Dublin indeed.

Poccington

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

Quite frankly, we don't really.

Over the past number of years, the DF has downsized itself by thousands of personell(Think it may have been between 16-15,000?) to 9,500. While we did quite well in terms of organisational reform, we didn't follow suit with barracks closures.

In terms of the number of barracks, we're in a situation where as a country, Ireland was obviously littered with barracks from the days of being occupied by the British, along with the security threat from dissidents during the Troubles. It's only in the past few years that barracks closures have started to catch up with the reform going on through the DF.

The closures make perfect sense in reality. They're going to benefit the Units in terms of training, duties, logistics etc. and will benefit the State in terms of less duty money to be paid, less barracks to operate and a more efficient and centralised DF.

People aren't going to be happy but IMO, there's still more barracks that could do with going.

filthymcnasty

spider guardian wrote: »

Plenty of hyperbole from residents of Mullingar on the news now. So what if Mullingar has been a garrison town for 200 years, the country simply can't afford to keep all these barracks going, there are more pressing areas that need the money. This isn't just about cutbacks in a recession, it's about long-term viability as well.

Penrose only wants to keep his seat next time around, shafted by the big boys in Dublin indeed.

yeah mentioned this in the other thread: she also said that some of the soldiers would now have to buy cars to commute to Athlone.
If thats the least of their worries I'm sure as battle hardened soldiers they'll get through it.

Callan57

filthymcnasty wrote: »

yeah mentioned this in the other thread: she also said that some of the soldiers would now have to buy cars to commute to Athlone.
If thats the least of their worries I'm sure as battle hardened soldiers they'll get through it.

She made them sound like the worlds greatest shower of whimps ... reminded me of Pat Shortt 'your going out to Lebanon & you can't find your way to Athlone'
:D:D:D

Dr Galen

Poccington wrote: »

Quite frankly, we don't really.

Over the past number of years, the DF has downsized itself by thousands of personell(Think it may have been between 16-15,000?) to 9,500. While we did quite well in terms of organisational reform, we didn't follow suit with barracks closures.

In terms of the number of barracks, we're in a situation where as a country, Ireland was obviously littered with barracks from the days of being occupied by the British, along with the security threat from dissidents during the Troubles. It's only in the past few years that barracks closures have started to catch up with the reform going on through the DF.

The closures make perfect sense in reality. They're going to benefit the Units in terms of training, duties, logistics etc. and will benefit the State in terms of less duty money to be paid, less barracks to operate and a more efficient and centralised DF.

People aren't going to be happy but IMO, there's still more barracks that could do with going.

Nail on head here. It wouldn't matter if we were still "rich", we don't need many of the remaining barracks in the country, this is but one of those.

filthymcnasty

Callan57 wrote: »

She made them sound like the worlds greatest shower of whimps ... reminded me of Pat Shortt 'your going out to Lebanon & you can't find your way to Athlone'
:D:D:D

it was funny - i thought joining the army was about adventure, going places etc. Some of these lads might have been to Liberia and Darfur and the like but obviously Athlone is a bridge too far..

gandalf

Willie Penrose by his actions has shown himself to be nothing more than a jumped up county councillor. TD's are elected to make decisions for the benefit of the whole country not for a selected sub section of it to the detriment of the rest.

If he has any integrity at all he should resign from his Dail seat totally as he has demonstrated that he does not have the ability to make the hard decisions that we as a country need our politicians to make now.

Ben D Bus

He was dead right to resign. Anyone who puts local issues ahead of national matters should not be a minister. He was not worthy of the post. Not his reasoning of course, but at least he's gone.

Min

He stood up for what he believed in, he believes it will cost the country money - the soldiers will have to be paid for the cost of having to travel to work rather than where they were based and had their families and homes. The land is hardly that saleable in the current property market and it has listed buildings and is not zoned for develpment but is in an area zoned for community use, Enda speaking crap as usual when he talks about selling it and having money to invest in equipment for the army.
All the state will have is money to pay for security for the property as it will not be sold in a hurry.

I think Willie Penrose did the right thing, he said he has seen the figures and there are no savings, I think he is lucky to be out of the Labour party too, especially when one hears what Nessa Childers had to say.

Trampas

Did he resign all minister entitlements he would have got also?

looking for re-election already.

Ben D Bus

Min wrote: »

He stood up for what he believed in, he believes it will cost the country money

Serious question - has anyone outside Westmeath expressed that opinion?

Cavanjack

What's the big deal? Instead of going to "work" in Mullingar they are going to "work" in athlone. Big deal. Anyone lucky enough to have work on a building site will think nothing of travelling an hour or an hour and a half to work. Think they can take redundancy as well if it doesn't suit. Plus a good pension.

Min

Ben D Bus wrote: »

Serious question - has anyone outside Westmeath expressed that opinion?

I don't know.

However I see Damien English of Fine Gael saying on Primetime that they now need to put something back into Mullingar to replace the barracks...

Anyway that serial liar Eamon Gilmore said two years ago he would keep the barracks in Mullingar open.
Wouldn't trust that man as far as I could throw.

TJJP

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/councillors-claim-836417000-for-mileage-but-dont-even-drive-1850004.html

GCU Flexible Demeanour

spider guardian wrote: »

Plenty of hyperbole from residents of Mullingar on the news now. So what if Mullingar has been a garrison town for 200 years, the country simply can't afford to keep all these barracks going, there are more pressing areas that need the money.

I can only agree.

Wouldn't you wonder what's going through people's minds when they produce Mullingar Barracks' 200 year history, almost as if it protection of the country's British heritage was a priority? Should we invite The Highlanders, 4th Battalion, Royal Regiment of Scotland, back, as they seem to be the unit that can trace its history back to the 78th (Highlanders) Regiment of Foot that originally occupied the barracks (along with the Westmeath Militia)?

And don't get me wrong. I've no problem recognising how much of our heritage is British. I just find the bland way that '200 years' is trotted out to be amusing.

As for all of these arguments about it being cheaper to keep the barracks open, you'd wonder if we should open a dozen more and really see the savings stack up.

thebman

TJJP wrote: »

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/councillors-claim-836417000-for-mileage-but-dont-even-drive-1850004.html

It's entirely within the legislation. There's absolutely nothing wrong with that," he said.

Dunno, some might say that just because its legal, doesn't make it right ... ...

The problem with the Irish political system is that if it isn't illegal (and sometimes even if it is :rolleyes:), it is fine and people will vote the unethical people back in time and time again as long as the potholes are filled and a few jobs brought to an area.

We need to stop politicians feeling the need or having the ability to influence where things go from a national level. Seems crazy that they are just allowed to put something in their constituency because they are the minister in charge. Surely they should have to be able to justify it with a report at least demonstrating why it is the best location for whatever it is at the time.

I don't see the problem with closing the barracks when there is one down the road in Athlone. It is not a great distance and the roads aren't even bad.

Wildlife Actor

Assuming it does make economic sense to close it (an assumption that should not be made by the media or the politicians), why blame Penrose? He's just doing what those who elected him want him to do and will re-elect him for doing.

It's all very well for Edmund Burke to say that the representative who sacrifices his judgment to his constituents' opinion betrays his country but the reality is that he won't be a representative for long if he follows that line.

Isn't it a damning indictment of the parliamentary structure that acting against the national interest is the surest way of getting re-elected to represent the national interest? The problem is structural: nobody's fault and everybody's fault.

50 TDs, 5 constituencies, 3 terms maximum. Try fixing a pothole in Bantry when you're representing Thurles too.

K-9

Love nor Money wrote: »

Assuming it does make economic sense to close it (an assumption that should not be made by the media or the politicians), why blame Penrose? He's just doing what those who elected him want him to do and will re-elect him for doing.

It's all very well for Edmund Burke to say that the representative who sacrifices his judgment to his constituents' opinion betrays his country but the reality is that he won't be a representative for long if he follows that line.

Isn't it a damning indictment of the parliamentary structure that acting against the national interest is the surest way of getting re-elected to represent the national interest? The problem is structural: nobody's fault and everybody's fault.

50 TDs, 5 constituencies, 3 terms maximum. Try fixing a pothole in Bantry when you're representing Thurles too.

That's what councils should be for.

There was an issue over barracks closures in Donegal as well and I'm sure other counties. Maybe all TD's representing them should have resigned and formed a group representing a lobby group.

Democracy is action, power to the lobby groups.

Sierra Oscar

K-9 wrote: »

That's what councils should be for.

What? Councils have no say as to the configuration of barracks across our nation.

Also, whether you like it or not - TD's are elected to represent their constituents. Advocate a change of the electoral system if you do not like that, but you have to put up with what is in place until it is changed.

K-9

Sierra Oscar wrote: »

What? Councils have no say as to the configuration of barracks across our nation.

Read the post I was responding to, the one about potholes, that type of thing.

Also, whether you like it or not - TD's are elected to represent their constituents. Advocate a change of the electoral system if you do not like that, but you have to put up with what is in place until it is changed.

Oh indeed, can't remember saying otherwise. Sometimes compromises have to be made, hence coalitions etc. The party whip system tends to iron out the constituent wishes thing anyway.