Beef stew with red wine or Guinness?

leahyl

Hi everyone, I'm making a Jamie Oliver recipe from his ministry of food book this evening for beef stew and he uses Guinness in it but I was just wondering would it be ok to use red wine? Does it change the flavour? Which is nicer?

Thanks :-)

Cicero

Using Red wine will be a little sweeter than the Guinness stew but both are lovely- consider serving dauphinoise potatoes to serve with the red wine stew to give it that "French" feel. I'd use more garlic if i were using red wine- that would be the main difference for me..

the beer revolu

As said, both are nice but a dark ale makes a much, much nicer stew than Guinness - Guinness is a bit too bitter for a stew in my opinion and had too much 'burnt' flavours.

If going with the red wine, I'd agree with using a fair bit of garlic and I find that tomatoes go very well in a beef and red wine stew. Also, taste the wine first!

leahyl

the beer revolu wrote: »

As said, both are nice but a dark ale makes a much, much nicer stew than Guinness - Guinness is a bit too bitter for a stew in my opinion and had too much 'burnt' flavours.

If going with the red wine, I'd agree with using a fair bit of garlic and I find that tomatoes go very well in a beef and red wine stew. Also, taste the wine first!

Thanks a mil - think I'll go with the red wine bit I'm no expert on wines but I read something about a burgundy wine being nice??!!

Cicero

leahyl wrote: »

Thanks a mil - think I'll go with the red wine bit I'm no expert on wines but I read something about a burgundy wine being nice??!!

yes...that or a Cotes Du Rhone...

leahyl

Cicero wrote: »

leahyl wrote: »

Thanks a mil - think I'll go with the red wine bit I'm no expert on wines but I read something about a burgundy wine being nice??!!

yes...that or a Cotes Du Rhone...

Ok couldn't find either of those so got a Cabernet Sauvignon....it was 5.99 - didn't want to spend too much!

The Black Oil

Any suggestions in the dark ale department if wanting to try something other than Guinness?

Cicero

leahyl wrote: »

Ok couldn't find either of those so got a Cabernet Sauvignon....it was 5.99 - didn't want to spend too much!

that will be fine...good rich flavours from CB grape....if you haven't already poured the full bottle in, then don't....just pour about 2/3'rds in and add to taste after that (its a richer wine than Cotes Du Rhone)...if you have poured the whole bottle in, don't worry- you may have to reduce the liquid down a bit more or add water to reduce the concentration of flavour..tasting throughout will decide this for you..hope you enjoy it..:)

leahyl

Cicero wrote: »

leahyl wrote: »

Ok couldn't find either of those so got a Cabernet Sauvignon....it was 5.99 - didn't want to spend too much!

that will be fine...good rich flavours from CB grape....if you haven't already poured the full bottle in, then don't....just pour about 2/3'rds in and add to taste after that (its a richer wine than Cotes Du Rhone)...if you have poured the whole bottle in, don't worry- you may have to reduce the liquid down a bit more or add water to reduce the concentration of flavour..tasting throughout will decide this for you..hope you enjoy it..:)

Thanks a million! Just after a bit plate of it and it was gorgeous but quite heavy/rich! You wouldn't need much to feel full!! I put in 500ml of the wine as that's what it said in the recipe - the full bottle is 750ml so that's about 2/3 of bottle.

Thanks for all your advice!

Spanish Eyes

Hi, you've probably already made your stew, and I hope it turned out well.

If I'm making a beef in red wine stew/casserole, I make marinade with some of the wine, olive oil, garlic, rosemary, and some thyme. Leave the cubed meat in it overnight, and use the marinade, plus the remainder of the wine for the cooking.

When cooking, I also add beef stock (cube or the little pots are fine), worcester sauce, tomato paste and aromat seasoning. Oh my, am getting hungry thinking about it. Must make this next wkend. Comfort food for the soul.

JimsAlterEgo

anyone have any issues gettign it to thicken? Hate a watery stew

the beer revolu

Black Oil wrote: »

Any suggestions in the dark ale department if wanting to try something other than Guinness?

The possibilities are endless!

I'd imagine O'Hara's red or Dungarvan Copper Coast would be good in a stew.

Any of the English ales available in Tesco would be good - London Pride, Hobgoblin, Old Speckled Hen, Theakson Old Peculier etc.

I'd say O'Hara's Leann Follain would make a mean stew along the lines of beef and Guinness only richer without that burnt bitter taste.

Belgian dark ales like Leffe Bruin or Chimay Blue make fantastic stews and one of the best stews I've made, I did recently with Leifman's Goudenband and Schneiderweiss Aventinus was fantastic too.

Dahtac

the beer revolu wrote: »

I did recently with Leifman's Goudenband and Schneiderweiss Aventinus was fantastic too.

I must do this

Brian?

Black Oil wrote: »

Any suggestions in the dark ale department if wanting to try something other than Guinness?

A friend of mine swears by a can of Kilkenny in a stew.

joolsveer

I have heard (from where I don't know) that adding some dried prunes to the Guinness stew gets rid of the bitterness. I haven't tried this yet but I intend to. The variety of Guinness recommended is the bottled Guinness Extra Stout and not the draught.

I'm getting into very slow cooking in the oven and this recipe sounds ideal.

the beer revolu

briankeating wrote: »

A friend of mine swears by a can of Kilkenny in a stew.

It would be perfectly fine but something a bit darker with more flavour would make the stew, eh, darker and more flavoursome;)

Seaneh

the beer revolu wrote: »

I'd say O'Hara's Leann Follain would make a mean stew along the lines of beef and Guinness only richer without that burnt bitter taste.

Recently made a lamb stew with Leann and it was fantastic, would be even better with beef though, some of Leann and a knor beef stock pot on top of some beef shin or ox tail would be amazing. Throw in root veggies, a good amount of fresh cracked/crushed pepper and some fresh herbs and you'd have a part in your mouth.

Honey-ec

O'Shea's stout from Aldi is also excellent for cooking with; gorgeous, dark colour and a lovely mellow taste with no bitterness at all. It ain't bad for drinking either, by all accounts; it won bronze at the Blas na hEireann awards recently.

Seaneh

Honey-ec wrote: »

O'Shea's stout from Aldi is also excellent for cooking with; gorgeous, dark colour and a lovely mellow taste with no bitterness at all. It ain't bad for drinking either, by all accounts; it won bronze at the Blas na hEireann awards recently.

Brewed by the same people as Leann Follain (Carlow Brewing Co.).

Not a bad beer at all

But considering you can get the two for in and around the same price (4 Leann for €10 in most independent offies or €1.99 per bottle in tesco)) I'd go for the Leann every time, it's a far superior beer.

The Black Oil

the beer revolu wrote: »

The possibilities are endless!

I'd imagine O'Hara's red or Dungarvan Copper Coast would be good in a stew.

Any of the English ales available in Tesco would be good - London Pride, Hobgoblin, Old Speckled Hen, Theakson Old Peculier etc.

I'd say O'Hara's Leann Follain would make a mean stew along the lines of beef and Guinness only richer without that burnt bitter taste.

Belgian dark ales like Leffe Bruin or Chimay Blue make fantastic stews and one of the best stews I've made, I did recently with Leifman's Goudenband and Schneiderweiss Aventinus was fantastic too.

Thanks for all these. Supervalu didn't have any of them, except Kilkenny, which briankeating mentioned. Is it definitely ales we're after, not stout or beer? The Jamie Oliver recipe says 500ml of ale, Guinness or stout, so I assume it doesn't matter too much. I've not used much outside of wine or Guinness in my cooking.

Seaneh

any good ale or stout will be fine, honestly. Sure try a few and see which one you like!

trackguy

the beer revolu wrote: »

Any of the English ales available in Tesco would be good - London Pride, Hobgoblin, Old Speckled Hen, Theakson Old Peculier etc.

I made a steak and ale stew using Theakston Old Peculier recently - it was amazing!

the beer revolu

Black Oil wrote: »

Thanks for all these. Supervalu didn't have any of them, except Kilkenny, which briankeating mentioned. Is it definitely ales we're after, not stout or beer? The Jamie Oliver recipe says 500ml of ale, Guinness or stout, so I assume it doesn't matter too much. I've not used much outside of wine or Guinness in my cooking.

Stout, ale, Guinness, porter, lager - they're all beers and will all work fine in a beef stew. So nothing wrong with Kilkenny but it wouldn't add a very deep flavour.
I don't like Guinness in a stew as I find it too burnt tasting and bitter in the final stew - if you really want an Irish Stout stew something like O' Hara's Leann Follain or Dungarvan Black Rock Stout would be much, much better or even Murphy's or Beamish are, imo, better than Guinness in a stew.

Then you have the option of using ales - I like quite a dark ale in a stew but a nice copper or ruby coloured ale would be fine too. I like to use a pale ale or lager in an Irish stew or a chicken casserole where I want a lighter flavour and colour.

Any regular beer will not make a stew taste really bad so, as Seanah says, try different ones and see what you like.

Seaneh

If anyone is feeling particularly fancy, Seirra Nevada's Tumbler Brown Ale would make a fantastic stew liquor, I'm going to give it a lash with some beef this weekend.

The Black Oil

I've two beef stews in the oven now, one with Kilkenny, the other is O' Hara's Red, the latter being bought in Superquinn as Dunnes had fup all of the other stuff mentioned. May be time to try Tesco or Lidl for those. Also have a can of Beamish ready to go for the future. Btw, do I need to let the whole lot completely cool before freezing it? Batch 2 won't be complete until after 9pm.

Slogger Jogger

I've made beef and guinnness stew twice over the last week or so, from a recipe by Catherine Fulvio available on the RTE website. It was pretty damn good. Tasted even better when heated up as leftovers the next day.

monty_python

joolsveer wrote: »

The variety of Guinness recommended is the bottled Guinness Extra Stout and not the draught.

.

i agree. small touch of chilli is nice in there too

try it!!!:)

xoxyx

I've made Jamie's Guinness stew and had ale stews at restaurants, and I don't like them at all. I know it's personal taste - but I hate to cook something and dislike how it turns out - would be worried that anybody else eating it would feel the same way!

I use my mum's recipe now, which is just the meat and carrots and onions, one diced potato and stock and seasoning added, and I think it's so much more homely, and everybody who tastes it raves about who good it is! My mum says that, when her own mother made stew, no stock was added at all, but she includes it 'cause she thinks the meat needs it nowadays.

For me, the most important thing in stew is getting the best meat possible. I know it's going to be stewed, and even poor quality meat will be softened, but you can honestly taste the difference - especially when you're frying the onions in the meat juices and then including the whole lot in the pot. Also, I believe Jamie has discounted this as a myth, but I always sear the meat first before putting it in to stew.

monty_python

xoxyx wrote: »

My mum says that, when her own mother made stew, no stock was added at all, but she includes it 'cause she thinks the meat needs it nowadays.

.

i think it more down to peoples taste buds than the meat

the beer revolu

xoxyx wrote: »

I've made Jamie's Guinness stew and had ale stews at restaurants, and I don't like them at all. I know it's personal taste - but I hate to cook something and dislike how it turns out - would be worried that anybody else eating it would feel the same way!

I use my mum's recipe now, which is just the meat and carrots and onions, one diced potato and stock and seasoning added, and I think it's so much more homely, and everybody who tastes it raves about who good it is! My mum says that, when her own mother made stew, no stock was added at all, but she includes it 'cause she thinks the meat needs it nowadays.

I think that Guinness gives cooing with beer a bad name.
Much as I like a traditional 'mammy' brown stew without beer, you can get some really tasty results combining beer with meat for stewing.

To all those espousing beef with Guinness, have you tried other beers? And do you really think that Jamie/Catherine/Rachel etc. actually try out different beers and have all come to the same conclusion that Guinness is best or is it that they think Beef in Guinness will sell?

For me, the most important thing in stew is getting the best meat possible. I know it's going to be stewed, and even poor quality meat will be softened, but you can honestly taste the difference - especially when you're frying the onions in the meat juices and then including the whole lot in the pot. Also, I believe Jamie has discounted this as a myth, but I always sear the meat first before putting it in to stew.

Do you mean good quality meats or do you mean the more expensive cuts?
Far and away my favourite stews have been made with very inexpensive cuts of meat (short rib and shin beef being my favoured cuts) - get behind me round steak, you lean, dry cardboardy pretty looking rubbish!!!

I always sear too.

xoxyx

the beer revolu wrote: »

I think that Guinness gives cooing with beer a bad name.
Much as I like a traditional 'mammy' brown stew without beer, you can get some really tasty results combining beer with meat for stewing.

To all those espousing beef with Guinness, have you tried other beers? And do you really think that Jamie/Catherine/Rachel etc. actually try out different beers and have all come to the same conclusion that Guinness is best or is it that they think Beef in Guinness will sell?

I've made stew with Guinness once and tried Murphy's (I think) stout another time. For some reason - and this could be my fault entirely - the main taste I got from it was alcohol - even though I let it cook for ages. I've found the same with ale stews I've eaten out. Same with the likes of wine stews.

No doubt it's my taste buds making a difference, but I haven't found, so far, that drink has added anything to the stew. I've never got complaints with using my basic recipe, and, even though I love trying new things when cooking, alcohol with stew has been unsuccessful.

Would love to be proven wrong though!!

ApeXaviour

the beer revolu wrote: »

Any of the English ales available in Tesco would be good - London Pride, Hobgoblin, Old Speckled Hen, Theakson Old Peculier etc.

Those are good drinking beers, but considering their price I wouldn't waste them in stew, boiling such a beer for hours amongst meat and vegetables will blunt any flavour subtlety. Better IMO to settle for a nice cheap can of Bass Smithwicks or Kilkenny, all quality ales without the fancy bottle or price-tag.

Although personally I'm quite a fan of the toasted flavour of stout in stew.

the beer revolu wrote: »

Belgian dark ales like Leffe Bruin or Chimay Blue make fantastic stews and one of the best stews I've made, I did recently with Leifman's Goudenband and Schneiderweiss Aventinus was fantastic too.

The likelihood for the difference in flavour here is because these beers have significantly more sugar in them than others mentioned. Pretty much all of the 6-9% alcohol of these more expensive beers will be boiled off though.

the beer revolu

ApeXaviour wrote: »

Those are good drinking beers, but considering their price I wouldn't waste them in stew, boiling such a beer for hours amongst meat and vegetables will blunt any flavour subtlety. Better IMO to settle for a nice cheap can of Bass Smithwicks or Kilkenny, all quality ales without the fancy bottle or price-tag.

Well if you consider spending around €2 rather than around €1 on a beer for a stew then off you go. It's not subtlety of flavour I'm after, it's depth and complexity of flavour. I believe it's money well spent.

The likelihood for the difference in flavour here is because these beers have significantly more sugar in them than others mentioned. Pretty much all of the 6-9% alcohol of these more expensive beers will be boiled off though.

It's not the alcohol I'm looking for.
Yes, going down this road is a little more expensive but well worth it in my opinion if you want a very rich tasting stew.

-K2-

JimsAlterEgo wrote: »

anyone have any issues gettign it to thicken? Hate a watery stew

Coat the meat in flour before browning.

Seaneh

xoxyx wrote: »

Also, I believe Jamie has discounted this as a myth, but I always sear the meat first before putting it in to stew.

He disproved that it "seals" the juices in, but everyone in the catering trade has always known that was nonsense.
What searing does do though is caramalise the outside of the meat and this adds a lot of flavour to any dish.

Seaneh

-K2- wrote: »

Coat the meat in flour before browning.

Don't do this.

Brown the meat by itself at a high heat, otherwise the meat won't caramalise you will just be browning the flour.
After the meat is browned, removed it and bring the heat down to medium then throw in some diced onion, carrot and celery and a knob of butter and sweat them a bit, when they are a little soft sprinkle over a desert spoor of flour and give it a good stir for about a minute to cook our the flour a bit. Then add your beef back to the pan, stir and throw in your beer/stock/wine/whatever and stick a lid on it, let it cook gently for a few hours.

Remember, stew boiled is stew spoiled!

xoxyx

Seaneh wrote: »

He disproved that it "seals" the juices in, but everyone in the catering trade has always known that was nonsense.
What searing does do though is caramalise the outside of the meat and this adds a lot of flavour to any dish.

I did wonder. Thanks Seaneh!!

the beer revolu

Seaneh wrote: »

He disproved that it "seals" the juices in, but everyone in the catering trade has always known that was nonsense.
What searing does do though is caramalise the outside of the meat and this adds a lot of flavour to any dish.

+1

Seaneh wrote: »

Don't do this.

Brown the meat by itself at a high heat, otherwise the meat won't caramalise you will just be browning the flour.
After the meat is browned, removed it and bring the heat down to medium then throw in some diced onion, carrot and celery and a knob of butter and sweat them a bit, when they are a little soft sprinkle over a desert spoor of flour and give it a good stir for about a minute to cook our the flour a bit. Then add your beef back to the pan, stir and throw in your beer/stock/wine/whatever and stick a lid on it, let it cook gently for a few hours.

Remember, stew boiled is stew spoiled!

+1


I forgot to add that if using beer, a good desertspoonfull of Dijon mustard goes great in it.

The Black Oil

Got some London Pride, Old Speckled Hen, and O' Hara's in Tesco.

the beer revolu

Black Oil wrote: »

Got some London Pride, Old Speckled Hen, and O' Hara's in Tesco.

It's going to have to be three stews, so!

The Black Oil

Aye.
Tried Beamish the other week and was happy with how it turned out.

Marcusm

leahyl wrote: »

Thanks a mil - think I'll go with the red wine bit I'm no expert on wines but I read something about a burgundy wine being nice??!!

That would be a boeuf bourguignon then!

vicwatson

Care to put Jamie's recipe up here so we can all give it a try and give you feedback?