Send violent criminals/Thugs to south america

sta_quo

Why cant we send violent criminals/thugs to jails in South America when they are convicted and pay the prison service out there a fee. It would be far cheaper then jailing them here and would also teach them a real lesson.
Nobody jailed here ever learns from their mistakes...or it is very rare.

A friend has been seriously assaulted 2 weeks ago and we know the guy will get off with it. Or not punished enough.

What yis reckon?

NoQuarter

A well made, excellent point which you have clearly put a lot of thought into and researched thoroughly!

who the fug

What country in the world is going accept crimanls from another country

listermint

who the fug wrote: »

What country in the world is going accept crimanls from another country

One that wishes to make money off it. Its actually not a bad commercial decision to be fair to the OP.

schemingbohemia

After Hours is thataway

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>>

mcmoustache

I like the idea myself but I think that european legislation would prevent it. I'm not very informed on such matters but it might be that sending criminals abroad could constitute cruel and unusual punishment as visitation rights would effectively be removed.

sta_quo

NoQuarter wrote: »

A well made, excellent point which you have clearly put a lot of thought into and researched thoroughly!

No. Shot from the hip.

RandolphEsq

It would be very difficult to make happen, if not impossible, to put prisoners in a prison in a South American country to serve a sentence that was handed down by Irish Courts.

Victor

Can we swap them for hot South American wimmins?

:rolleyes:

Our man in Havana

The Brits sent their rift-raft to Australia. Why can't Ireland export it's crims? The OP has a valid point. The deterrent value would be great.

al28283

Our man in Havana wrote: »

The Brits sent their rift-raft to Australia. Why can't Ireland export it's crims? The OP has a valid point. The deterrent value would be great.

The only difference is about 150 years

jblack

Our man in Havana wrote: »

The Brits sent their rift-raft to Australia. Why can't Ireland export it's crims? The OP has a valid point. The deterrent value would be great.

We've only successfully deported one member of Westlife so far...

sta_quo

Our man in Havana wrote: »

The Brits sent their rift-raft to Australia. Why can't Ireland export it's crims? The OP has a valid point. The deterrent value would be great.

Cheers mate.
There are so many liberal civil rights heads who moan about the rights of prisoners etc But these same people never stand up and be counted when criminals start taking over communities.
And the Guards are less then useless. If you haven't paid your car tax etc then they are the big men. But if you are been attacked on the street...well, they never show till it has all died down.

If we send them to prisons in places like south America, Russia etc that would put a sharp end to their carry on.

Why cant we lead the charge. Judge dread mentality is needed.

And until someone close to you has been put in a coma by scumbags, you just wont empathise completely.

Hippo

Hard to know where to begin with this one. This used to be the Legal Discussion forum.

jblack

^^agreed, there's a few of this ilk floating around the forum atm.

Worrying stuff.

paddyandy

Siberia for 2 years and Crime would drop dramatically but the Guards,Prison,& Security would fight Tooth and Nail to keep up the Crime rates.

chops018

You can't just deport people from their home country just because they committed a crime. Article 3 of the European Convention on Human Rights states: "No one shall be subjected to torture or to inhuman or degrading treatment or punishment." and in my opinion sending someone to a foreign country to serve a prison sentence where they will possibly be an outcast due to their Nationality and might not speak the language is a form of mental torture and inhuman treatment to say the least, never know what might happen over there physically. I don't care if they committed a serious offence we are a modern society and it is in our law to not punish someone by way of torture which is what sending them to a foreign country could amount to. Also the prisons would have to have Irish reps there making sure the whole process went as planned etc. which would be costly too so it wouldn't be as cheap as you think!

Also this seems to be a Crime Control versus Due Process argument so it is in the right forum I think

Hippo

chops018 wrote: »

Also this seems to be a Crime Control versus Due Process argument so it is in the right forum I think

By all means engage the OP in legal argument. Good luck with that

NoQuarter

Death penalty solves all problems!

mcmoustache

The thread seems to be going downhill but I think that chops has answered the question.

From a legal point of view, there's no way that we'd be allowed to do send our prisoners abroad.

sta_quo

jblack wrote: »

^^agreed, there's a few of this ilk floating around the forum atm.

Worrying stuff.

Ilk....what have you to worry about? Ruining your trolling is it...

sta_quo

paddyandy wrote: »

Siberia for 2 years and Crime would drop dramatically but the Guards,Prison,& Security would fight Tooth and Nail to keep up the Crime rates.

Hit the nail on the head me man. Its lessons these people need. I have talked to people who have worked in juvenile centres/jails and a large % re-offend. That is fact...

sta_quo

chops018 wrote: »

You can't just deport people from their home country just because they committed a crime. Article 3 of the European Convention on Human Rights states: "No one shall be subjected to torture or to inhuman or degrading treatment or punishment." and in my opinion sending someone to a foreign country to serve a prison sentence where they will possibly be an outcast due to their Nationality and might not speak the language is a form of mental torture and inhuman treatment to say the least, never know what might happen over there physically. I don't care if they committed a serious offence we are a modern society and it is in our law to not punish someone by way of torture which is what sending them to a foreign country could amount to. Also the prisons would have to have Irish reps there making sure the whole process went as planned etc. which would be costly too so it wouldn't be as cheap as you think!

Also this seems to be a Crime Control versus Due Process argument so it is in the right forum I think

You don't care what offence they commit until it is done on you my friend...

al28283

sta_quo wrote: »

Hit the nail on the head me man. Its lessons these people need. I have talked to people who have worked in juvenile centres/jails and a large % re-offend. That is fact...

So you want to send juveniles to Siberia or South American prisons now?

chops018

sta_quo wrote: »

You don't care what offence they commit until it is done on you my friend...

Fair enough, I don't know that part of the spectrum thankfully. But I have always been of the opinion of due process and feel every persons rights should be respected and the system should not be bent around to encroach on such rights.

jblack

sta_quo wrote: »

Ilk....what have you to worry about? Ruining your trolling is it...

I honestly thought your first post was a bit of a laugh (not the part about your mate), now this thread has taken on an ugly sentiment.

It's not ruining my trolling if that's what you think I'm doing by participating. I will sleep sound in the knowledge that such a ridiculous suggestion will never be taken seriously by those who can do something about it.

(On a completely different note I do happen to agree that as it stands the judicial system does not do enough to deter serious crime and some of the sentences handed down are disgracefully lenient).

sta_quo

jblack wrote: »

I honestly thought your first post was a bit of a laugh (not the part about your mate), now this thread has taken on an ugly sentiment.

It's not ruining my trolling if that's what you think I'm doing by participating. I will sleep sound in the knowledge that such a ridiculous suggestion will never be taken seriously by those who can do something about it.

(On a completely different note I do happen to agree that as it stands the judicial system does not do enough to deter serious crime and some of the sentences handed down are disgracefully lenient).

Well, we do agree on that. These guys re-offend because they no the consequences are not that bad.

Siberia on the other hand is bad and scary...

paddyandy

Apathy is Ireland's greatest problem as long as we can pay our bills murder and mayhem can wait another day.When we are personally affected by crime we awake for a while at least....serious crime a while longer..

Ken.

mcmoustache wrote: »

I like the idea myself but I think that european legislation would prevent it. I'm not very informed on such matters but it might be that sending criminals abroad could constitute cruel and unusual punishment as visitation rights would effectively be removed.

You could send the families of the scumbag's with them to the foreign countries. Would probably cut crime further(if you catch my drift).

al28283

lucyfur09 wrote: »

You could send the families of the scumbag's with them to the foreign countries. Would probably cut crime further(if you catch my drift).

Now who's the scumbag?

paddyandy

Mass Expulsion is a great idea but it's another decade or two away and i'd love to see it.Ireland could be heading that way...

johnnyskeleton

Maybe they could be imprisoned in another eu country due to the free market.

234

johnnyskeleton wrote: »

Maybe they could be imprisoned in another eu country due to the free market.

Another Freedom to be added in the next treaty?;)

Victor

In the 1990s Germany and The Netherlands did a deal where one took the other's prisoners as they had too much space, not sure what direction it went.

swordofislam

The Irish state could open a facility in a third world country. It would not be acceptable to simply drop Irish prisoners into a third world prison.

The idea might in fact be cost effective and assist in creating the kind of massive cognitive dissonance that would impact on recidivism.

The savings made from not paying prison officers ludicrous salaries could feed into therapy and assistance for the prisoners incarcerated in this purpose built facility.

Alternatively the state could (by referendum) reinstate the bloody code.

sta_quo

swordofislam wrote: »

The Irish state could open a facility in a third world country. It would not be acceptable to simply drop Irish prisoners into a third world prison.

The idea might in fact be cost effective and assist in creating the kind of massive cognitive dissonance that would impact on recidivism.

The savings made from not paying prison officers ludicrous salaries could feed into therapy and assistance for the prisoners incarcerated in this purpose built facility.

Alternatively the state could (by referendum) reinstate the bloody code.

The death penalty I would not be into reinstating.
But punishment that meets the crime I am all for.
I personally think, if you rape...then castration should happen.
You murder...send him to siberia and let him/her suffer.
Beat a guy to an inch of his life...then maim the perpetrator.

We need to get on this or our children will be at risk of not been able to walk the streets in the future without fear.

Laisurg

They have to actually go to prison first and lately it seems like all the thugs are just getting suspended sentences.

Victor

Laisurg wrote: »

They have to actually go to prison first and lately it seems like all the thugs are just getting suspended sentences.

You need to balance that statement with 3,000 people in prison.

Arciphel

The decision not to follow through and build the proposed "super" prison in Thornton Hall will be see in ten years as a massive, massive mistake in my opinion.

ldxo15wus6fpgm

sta_quo wrote: »

I personally think, if you rape...then castration should happen.
You murder...send him to siberia and let him/her suffer.
Beat a guy to an inch of his life...then maim the perpetrator.

Wait till you walk into your house to find some lad riding your wife and see what you think of those ideas after you see red and beat the crap out of him. Not every person who commits a crime is a hardened criminal.

chops018

sta_quo wrote: »

The death penalty I would not be into reinstating.
But punishment that meets the crime I am all for.
I personally think, if you rape...then castration should happen.
You murder...send him to siberia and let him/her suffer.
Beat a guy to an inch of his life...then maim the perpetrator.

We need to get on this or our children will be at risk of not been able to walk the streets in the future without fear.

Move to the middle east so, plenty of countries out there have similar laws to what you're talking about.

sta_quo

Coleman Stale Organ wrote: »

Wait till you walk into your house to find some lad riding your wife and see what you think of those ideas after you see red and beat the crap out of him. Not every person who commits a crime is a hardened criminal.

Why not beat the crap out of her also...ridiculous comment. If you beat the guy unconcious then you deserve to be punished. It takes two to tango my friend...

chops018 wrote: »

Move to the middle east so, plenty of countries out there have similar laws to what you're talking about.

I have lived in the middle east. An Indian taxi man related a story to me how crime was on the rise. I asked hime for examples. He said a mobile phone ws robbed from a cafe. This was in Dubai...Terrible society. I would take some of that.

chops018

sta_quo wrote: »

Why not beat the crap out of her also...ridiculous comment. If you beat the guy unconcious then you deserve to be punished. It takes two to tango my friend...



I have lived in the middle east. An Indian taxi man related a story to me how crime was on the rise. I asked hime for examples. He said a mobile phone ws robbed from a cafe. This was in Dubai...Terrible society. I would take some of that.

I'm not talking about Dubai and you know well. Also you're saying "if you beat the guy unconscious then you deserve to be punished, it takes two to tango my friend", well that works the same for you for saying what punishment people deserve for committing a crime, if society "maims a perpetrator" then by your logic society should be "maimed" for carrying out this punishment. An eye for an eye would leave us all blind "my friend". You also say how Dubai is a terrible society for someone getting their phone robbed, some (not all) of these criminals are criminals as a result of society - poor education systems around their area, no jobs, no money - leads to criminal activity. So your so called "iron fist" society would just make things worse. Who wants to live in fear, as the poster above said not all criminals are hardened, an example being that of unlawful carnal knowledge (now I know the law concerning this was changed in 2006) but if say a person was convicted of this and they had made an honest mistake then prior to 2006 by your logic the person would have been castrated? We have freedom and free will, which is also another reason crimes exist but let us all try to develop the society around us in a positive way not this negative way you speak of such as using violence to counter act the problem.

sta_quo

chops018 wrote: »

I'm not talking about Dubai and you know well. Also you're saying "if you beat the guy unconscious then you deserve to be punished, it takes two to tango my friend", well that works the same for you for saying what punishment people deserve for committing a crime, if society "maims a perpetrator" then by your logic society should be "maimed" for carrying out this punishment. An eye for an eye would leave us all blind "my friend". You also say how Dubai is a terrible society for someone getting their phone robbed, some (not all) of these criminals are criminals as a result of society - poor education systems around their area, no jobs, no money - leads to criminal activity. So your so called "iron fist" society would just make things worse. Who wants to live in fear, as the poster above said not all criminals are hardened, an example being that of unlawful carnal knowledge (now I know the law concerning this was changed in 2006) but if say a person was convicted of this and they had made an honest mistake then prior to 2006 by your logic the person would have been castrated? We have freedom and free will, which is also another reason crimes exist but let us all try to develop the society around us in a positive way not this negative way you speak of such as using violence to counter act the problem.

Ah here...you are rambling. I never said Dubai was terrible(I was being sarcastic). This post is drifting. Read my initial post. A guy I know was put in a coma and the perpetrator is swanning around until police put together evidence. He has been identified but can still go out an live his life as normal, while an innocent guy's family are in devastation.

al28283

sta_quo wrote: »

Ah here...you are rambling. I never said Dubai was terrible(I was being sarcastic). This post is drifting. Read my initial post. A guy I know was put in a coma and the perpetrator is swanning around until police put together evidence. He has been identified but can still go out an live his life as normal, while an innocent guy's family are in devastation.

You are suggesting we maim someone as a punishment for a crime they haven't yet been convicted of. That is wrong by any standards

chops018

sta_quo wrote: »

Ah here...you are rambling. I never said Dubai was terrible(I was being sarcastic). This post is drifting. Read my initial post. A guy I know was put in a coma and the perpetrator is swanning around until police put together evidence. He has been identified but can still go out an live his life as normal, while an innocent guy's family are in devastation.

I am truly sorry to hear about what happened to your friend, I didn't realise. However I am still in disagreement with your ideas of punishment.

ldxo15wus6fpgm

sta_quo wrote: »

Why not beat the crap out of her also...ridiculous comment. If you beat the guy unconcious then you deserve to be punished. It takes two to tango my friend...

Why not? Because as I said not everyone who commits a crime is a scumbag/thug etc. who would stoop to that level. Some day you'll do something you regret, if what you suggested was the done thing with prisoners you'd be getting shipped out to south america for a stupid mistake. Hardly fair.

valleyoftheunos

I'm amazed this thread is still going.

I'm deeply saddened to hear about the OPs friend but there are no satisfactory answers to be had by a return to a wild west principles of justice or crime and punishment. Lots of people would like to believe that crime can be solved by just locking up the "criminals" preferably throwing away the key afterwards, but thats not the answer. The rule of law is what protects our society and it requires that society hold itself to a level far higher than those it would punish, that means that there must be due procedure, the presumption of innocence and humane treatment.

As a result it would be completely impossible to send an offender to a prison abroad when the purpose of doing so would be to send them to a prison that was below standards allowed here.

sta_quo

valleyoftheunos wrote: »

I'm amazed this thread is still going.

I'm deeply saddened to hear about the OPs friend but there are no satisfactory answers to be had by a return to a wild west principles of justice or crime and punishment. Lots of people would like to believe that crime can be solved by just locking up the "criminals" preferably throwing away the key afterwards, but thats not the answer. The rule of law is what protects our society and it requires that society hold itself to a level far higher than those it would punish, that means that there must be due procedure, the presumption of innocence and humane treatment.

As a result it would be completely impossible to send an offender to a prison abroad when the purpose of doing so would be to send them to a prison that was below standards allowed here.

Exactly my point...send them to a prison that is below standards. Then they will think twice about messing up peoples lives.
And I cant agree with the other guy spouting about doing something wrong in the heat of the moment. If you commit a crime, you should be punished.

Oh, what the hell is an OP?

chops018

valleyoftheunos wrote: »

I'm amazed this thread is still going.

I'm deeply saddened to hear about the OPs friend but there are no satisfactory answers to be had by a return to a wild west principles of justice or crime and punishment. Lots of people would like to believe that crime can be solved by just locking up the "criminals" preferably throwing away the key afterwards, but thats not the answer. The rule of law is what protects our society and it requires that society hold itself to a level far higher than those it would punish, that means that there must be due procedure, the presumption of innocence and humane treatment.

As a result it would be completely impossible to send an offender to a prison abroad when the purpose of doing so would be to send them to a prison that was below standards allowed here.

That's what I've been saying all along and I fully agree with your points!

Latchy

who the fug wrote: »

What country in the world is going accept crimanls from another country

Devils Island used to take the French criminals but he was found to be innocent .