Favorite Book on Modern Ireland?

southsiderosie

For such a small country, there is a terrifyingly huge volume of output when it comes to Irish history. But a lot of it seems to focus on the pre-independence era, and the period from the mid-1920s to the 1980s seems to be a bit of a black hole (relatively speaking, anyway).

Do people have a favorite book on modern Irish history? It doesn't have to be academic, but something you think really captures or explains parts of this time period well, whether a biography or an analysis of a specific time period or political party. I've found a few I quite liked for Northern Ireland, but I haven't for the Republic, and trying to sift through everything that is out there is like trying to take a sip of water from a fire hose.

Cheers.

nimrod86

Ross O' Carroll Kelly!

landsleaving

The end of my junior cert history book was great for modern Ireland, it had a picture of Zig and Zag.

Wolfe Tone

A Secret History of the IRA, Ed Moloney. A great read.

Dotrel

Roy Keane's biography.

Might give some insight into how the county changed from 'we' into 'me'.

ChunkyLover_53

Barrytown Trilogy

(Snapper/Van/Commitments)

and

Spastic Hawk by the Rubber Bandits

orourkeda

Anne and Barry

sensibleken

i almost exclusively read irish history books but pre act of union stuff is the most interesting imo

im invisible

orourkeda wrote: »

Ann and Barry

For Your Pleasure...

southsiderosie

sensibleken wrote: »

i almost exclusively read irish history books but pre act of union stuff is the most interesting imo

Why? And what would you recommend?

sensibleken

southsiderosie wrote: »

Why? And what would you recommend?

call it a rediculous obsession

a really interesting read is 'Land of women' by Lisa M Bitel. Its all about women and the family unit in gaelic Ireland, a fascinating juxtaposition to what you'd expect. The life of Saint Columba by Adomnán is good to the point of funny because it gives insight into the propaganda of the early celtic church. Also the writings of giraldus cambrensis who was the propagandist for the norman invasion give similar insight.

Ireland Since The Famine by F. L. S. Lyons.

4zn76tysfajdxp

Ten Men Dead is a good one. It's about dem Nordys though so maybe that's out.

John Doe1

Bertie Ahern: The cnut years

starbelgrade

sensibleken wrote: »

call it a rediculous obsession

a really interesting read is 'Land of women' by Lisa M Bitel. Its all about women and the family unit in gaelic Ireland, a fascinating juxtaposition to what you'd expect. The life of Saint Columba by Adomnán is good to the point of funny because it gives insight into the propaganda of the early celtic church. Also the writings of giraldus cambrensis who was the propagandist for the norman invasion give similar insight.

Jaysus... I thought I'd tuned into "The View" there for a minute.

SEPT 23 1989

"The Lidl Specials"

starbelgrade

Deleted User wrote: »

Ireland Since The Famine by F. L. S. Lyons.

I prefer "Ireland During the Famine Years" by N.P. Tayto.

Ninap

Best book on recent Irish social history - Anglo Republiv by Simon Carswell

Best book on Northern Ireland - Secret History of IRA (Moloney)

Best novel on contemporary Ireland - Skippy Dies by Paul Murray

Mardy Bum

John Bull's Other Island. It was wrote a hundred years ago and its still a good depiction of Ireland over the last twenty years.

HugoBradyBrown

The best book on recent Irish history is Dr John Bowman's "Window and Mirror: RTÉ Television: 1961-2011", Cork: Collins, 2011.

It treats of RTE, but, that means giving a full treatment of Irish history in this period, heavily illustrated. It has been getting uniformly excellent reviews, in the press and in the broadcast media. Gay has spoken about it at length on his RTE Lyric FM show both last Sunday and the Sunday before, and indicated that it (together with Brendan Balfe's Irish Voice set of 3 CDs, based on his superb series of radio programmes about major Irish cultural and political figures) would make the ideal Christmas gift for anyone, whether they had an interest in history, or in RTE, or not.

And it costs only about 20 Euros.


Hugo Brady Brown

kupus

Last of the donkey pilgrims by kevin o hara, an irish american travelling thru out Ireland with a donkey is one of the funniest books I've had the pleasure of reading.....

If anybody has not read it or heard of it, I recommend it right away
link here to see it on amazon..........
http://www.amazon.com/Last-Donkey-Pilgrims-Kevin-OHara/dp/0765309831


Another one similar is Round Ireland With A Fridge by tony hawkes, title says it all really another good read.
link here:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Round-Ireland-Fridge-Tony-Hawks/dp/0091867770

last one
McCarthy's Bar: A Journey of Discovery in Ireland by pete mccarthy another very funny read,
http://www.amazon.co.uk/McCarthys-Bar-Journey-Discovery-Ireland/dp/0340766050/ref=pd_sim_b_1

Johro

'Ireland, a Terrible Beauty', by Leon Uris with photo's by his wife Jill.
It's kind of a trip around Ireland accompanied by amazing photographs of people and places. It's a bit old now, I remember it from the eighties.
Makes ya kinda nostalgic.
From what I understand, the inspiration for this book came out of Leon Uris' research for the novel, "Trinity".

'It's a pity that this book is out of print. It is an excellent photographic journal -- Jill did the photography, and Leon wrote the narrative. It gives a very real portrait of Ireland, and how this moment in history has arrived. You will not find these pictures in any travel brochure -- they are quite remarkable. '

'The tragedy is that this wonderful book is out of print. Leon Uris and the Irish then-Mrs. Uris, Jill, collaborated on this work, which grew out of Uris' research for his novel, TRINITY.

The photographs are haunting, each one a poem. Few places on earth are more beautiful or have had the soil moistened by more tears. Irish history is sorrowful yet uplifting, and the result is the "terrible beauty" this book speaks of and to.

Published in 1978, this picture essay captures an Ireland that was still on the margins of Europe, a fly in the amber, that had not quite shaken off the Nineteenth Century.

Thirty years on, Ireland has transmogrified into a EuroYuppie haven, and until recently, had the fastest-growing economy in Europe. In 1978 (or even in 1990, when I was there), Dublin could be walked entire in a day; no longer.

It's a fair bet that upscale condos, Tesco Supermarkets and the golden arches now stand in many places pictured in this book. All of which makes IRELAND: A TERRIBLE BEAUTY more valuable than before.' - Amazon reviews.
http://www.amazon.com/Ireland-Terrible-Beauty-Jill-Leon/dp/0553012088

ascanbe

The Lifelong Season - Keith Duggan
Hanging From the Rafters - Kieran Shannon

Although they're both, ostensibly, sports books, they're also two of the best social documents i've read in recent times.

TheUsual

Wolfe Tone wrote: »

A Secret History of the IRA, Ed Moloney. A great read.

You should bring that book to the recycling centre ... complete agenda driven rubbish.
"An un-named source say that"
"The dogs on the street know that"

Great writer ... No.
****head english public schoolboy who got bullied for having an Irish name ... Yes.

I didn't buy the book, it was a Christmas present and I sent it back in the post asking for a book token or money back.

Complete fantasy.

Pompey Magnus

"Michael Collins" by Tim Pat Coogan and "The Squad" by Liam Moroney should be compulsorary reading for anyone with such a poor grasp of Irish history that they try to argue that the old IRA were nothing like the Provos.

Events such as burning young men alive in industrial ovens and ordering the execution of Catholic teenage girls are too easily swept under the carpet by the Old IRA revisionists who love to condemn northern Republicans.

jethro081

Pompey Magnus wrote: »

"Michael Collins" by Tim Pat Coogan and "The Squad" by Liam Moroney should be compulsorary reading for anyone with such a poor grasp of Irish history that they try to argue that the old IRA were nothing like the Provos.

Events such as burning young men alive in industrial ovens and ordering the execution of Catholic teenage girls are too easily swept under the carpet by the Old IRA revisionists who love to condemn northern Republicans.

the only thing id say against your point is that it is revisionism that has brought this side of the old ira to the fore. for decades basically all documentation of the war of independance was very much skewed in favour of the IRA. its only in later years that revisionist historians have sought to paint a more honest, and indeed, much less flattering portrayal of the old IRA.

I welcome such a revision by the way, there is much to admire about our past, but the truth is important, warts and all.

also, you are right, those are both great books. Bandit country is a very good read on the northern troubles in south armagh.

and anything by tim pat coogan is going to be good. his De velara bio was really fantastic. and as has been said before, the history of de velara tells a large part of the history of ireland, such was his role within the young state.

HugoBradyBrown

southsiderosie wrote: »

For such a small country, there is a terrifyingly huge volume of output when it comes to Irish history. But a lot of it seems to focus on the pre-independence era, and the period from the mid-1920s to the 1980s seems to be a bit of a black hole (relatively speaking, anyway).

Do people have a favorite book on modern Irish history? It doesn't have to be academic, but something you think really captures or explains parts of this time period well, whether a biography or an analysis of a specific time period or political party. I've found a few I quite liked for Northern Ireland, but I haven't for the Republic, and trying to sift through everything that is out there is like trying to take a sip of water from a fire hose.

Cheers.

Yes, we seem to produce more history than we can consume here, for such a small place.


Hugo Brady Brown

Killer Pigeon

Mein Kampf.

Morlar

Pompey Magnus wrote: »

"Michael Collins" by Tim Pat Coogan and "The Squad" by Liam Moroney should be compulsorary reading for anyone with such a poor grasp of Irish history that they try to argue that the old IRA were nothing like the Provos.

Events such as burning young men alive in industrial ovens and ordering the execution of Catholic teenage girls are too easily swept under the carpet by the Old IRA revisionists who love to condemn northern Republicans.

The Squad was written by T.Ryle Dwyer, and yes, I agree it's a mindblowing book to read.

'The Squad and the Intelligence Operations of Michael Collins'

I also reccomend this series of books by Mercier :

http://www.mercierpress.ie/MilitaryHistoryoftheIrishCivilWar/

& this one published in the last couple of weeks :

http://www.mercierpress.ie/Revolution:A_photographic_history_of_Revolutionary_Ireland_/597/

Pompey Magnus

Morlar wrote: »

The Squad was written by T.Ryle Dwyer,

Quite right, lazy googling by me there

Vicxas

nimrod86 wrote: »

Ross O' Carroll Kelly!

I was gonna say that too

southsiderosie

Wow, thanks for all of the replies.

nimrod86 wrote: »

Ross O' Carroll Kelly!

You know, I tried to get into those...maybe it's because I don't really 'get' the whole D4 thing, and I wasn't around for the peak of the boom years, but I could never get into them.

ChunkyLover_53 wrote: »

Barrytown Trilogy

(Snapper/Van/Commitments)

Read those a few years ago and laughed my head off.

Mardy Bum wrote: »

John Bull's Other Island. It was wrote a hundred years ago and its still a good depiction of Ireland over the last twenty years.

I'm part of the way through Declan Kiberd's "Inventing Ireland" and there is a long discussion of Shaw and the reaction to that play in England. Very interesting.

jethro081 wrote: »

and anything by tim pat coogan is going to be good. his De velara bio was really fantastic. and as has been said before, the history of de velara tells a large part of the history of ireland, such was his role within the young state.

I'm reading that now - it seems like there is starting to be a lot of revisionist history around DeValera now too, no?

St.Spodo

The Transformation of Ireland 1900-2000 by Diarmaid Ferriter is excellent.

Richard

Peig?

bodhrandude

In Search of the Craic - Colin Irwin.
McCarthys Bar and The Road to McCarthy - Pete McCarthy
No News at Throat Lake - Laurence Donegan
Against the Tide - Noel Browne

Yeh bios and humourous travelogues is more my thing.

Temptamperu

Nineteen Eighty Four.... oh no wait

Dudess

HugoBradyBrown wrote: »

The best book on recent Irish history is Dr John Bowman's "Window and Mirror: RTÉ Television: 1961-2011", Cork: Collins, 2011.

It treats of RTE, but, that means giving a full treatment of Irish history in this period, heavily illustrated. It has been getting uniformly excellent reviews, in the press and in the broadcast media. Gay has spoken about it at length on his RTE Lyric FM show both last Sunday and the Sunday before, and indicated that it (together with Brendan Balfe's Irish Voice set of 3 CDs, based on his superb series of radio programmes about major Irish cultural and political figures) would make the ideal Christmas gift for anyone, whether they had an interest in history, or in RTE, or not.

And it costs only about 20 Euros.


Hugo Brady Brown

Looks like a press release and here am I giving it more publicity, but I really, really want this book.

Richard wrote: »

Peig?

Too debauched for me...

HugoBradyBrown

Dudess wrote: »

Looks like a press release and here am I giving it more publicity, but I really, really want this book.

Too debauched for me...

Yes, I can agree that the book would make the ideal Christmas (or Birthday) gift for anyone with any interest in any aspect of modern Irish history, since everyone of any importance has been interviewed in RTE in that time. Heavily illustrated by snaps from the Stills Library here, and beautifully produced for Collins in Cork. A thoroughly Irish production, too, from the tip of his nib to the book on the shop counter. And a snip at 20 euros.

(Dr John Bowman's "Window and Mirror: RTÉ Television: 1961-2011", Cork: Collins, 2011. Euro 20.00)



Hugo Brady Brown

cml387

John Bowman's book is a Christmas present so I can't open it till the 25.

If you have time on your hands read Tim Pat Coogan's biog of DeValera and find out how our "Founding father" had feet not of clay but of mud.

thee glitz

GUBU by Damien Corless is a great read and lives up to its name.

HugoBradyBrown

cml387 wrote: »

John Bowman's book is a Christmas present so I can't open it till the 25.

If you have time on your hands read Tim Pat Coogan's biog of DeValera and find out how our "Founding father" had feet not of clay but of mud.

Is that not a tendentious comment? Like most epic heroes, Mr de Valera's ancestry was shrouded in complexity and mystery. He was indeed a complex figure, with an exacting ethical sense, a descendant of a Cuban nobleman who died in New York shortly after his wedding to a girl from strong farmer stock in the County Limerick, who was an American citizen as well as a British subject, who stayed behind in Dublin to ensure national calm during the Treaty negotiations, who dealt firmly with insurgent forces in the 1940's, whose family all became members of the professions through hard work and diligence, who framed the Constitution, who kept Ireland out of the war and stood up to Churchill, who treated Germany with respect 'even in its darkest hour', as he said, who provided an example of fine family life at a time when such models were sorely needed, who devoted himself to learning the Irish language from his wife, who spoke Irish at every opportunity, who encouraged the Legion of Mary to work with the Irish diaspora who were being forced to go to England, who considered draining the Shannon until he realised the environmental impact it would have, who ran for election to the Stormont parliament, who was a deeply complex and fascinating figure, who was one of only four people in the world who understood Einstein's Theory of Relativity when it was first published, who established the Dublin Institute of Advanced Studies, who saved Schrödinger from the Germans, who read the classics in the original languages yet who could talk to Peig Sayers as if she was the wife of a cabinet minister, who propounded an ideal Ireland of frugal living by the mass of the people that would behove us now to adopt today in the current circumstances.

For further perspective, read the great book De Valera and the Ulster Question by Dr John Bowman, Oxford: Clarendon Press, 1982, for further insight into the mind of Mr de Valera by his greatest living scholarly admirer.

Hugo Brady Brown

Dudess

I can't believe nobody mentioned Champagne Kisses by Amanda Brunker! Or P.S. I Love You! :eek:

cml387

HugoBradyBrown wrote: »

Is that not a tendentious comment? Like most epic heroes, Mr de Valera's ancestry was shrouded in complexity and mystery. He was indeed a complex figure, with an exacting ethical sense, a descendant of a Cuban nobleman who died in New York shortly after his wedding to a girl from strong farmer stock in the County Limerick, who was an American citizen as well as a British subject, who stayed behind in Dublin to ensure national calm during the Treaty negotiations, who dealt firmly with insurgent forces in the 1940's, whose family all became members of the professions through hard work and diligence, who framed the Constitution, who kept Ireland out of the war and stood up to Churchill, who treated Germany with respect 'even in its darkest hour', as he said, who provided an example of fine family life at a time when such models were sorely needed, who devoted himself to learning the Irish language from his wife, who spoke Irish at every opportunity, who encouraged the Legion of Mary to work with the Irish diaspora who were being forced to go to England, who considered draining the Shannon until he realised the environmental impact it would have, who ran for election to the Stormont parliament, who was a deeply complex and fascinating figure, who was one of only four people in the world who understood Einstein's Theory of Relativity when it was first published, who established the Dublin Institute of Advanced Studies, who saved Schrödinger from the Germans, who read the classics in the original languages yet who could talk to Peig Sayers as if she was the wife of a cabinet minister, who propounded an ideal Ireland of frugal living by the mass of the people that would behove us now to adopt today in the current circumstances.

For further perspective, read the great book De Valera and the Ulster Question by Dr John Bowman, Oxford: Clarendon Press, 1982, for further insight into the mind of Mr de Valera by his greatest living scholarly admirer.

Hugo Brady Brown

..and this is why you should read the book.

The DeValera who,despite the almost certain fact that he was born illegitimate,encouraged the creation of a Catholic state which persecuted unmarried mothers,

Whose activities in the 1916 rising led to suspicions of cowardice,whose jealousy of Collins fatally undermined the treaty negotiations,

Whose stubborness over the Oath cause a civil war

and finally whose boneheaded idea of a self sufficient state created an economic backwater in the 1950's which caused thousands of people to emigrate (my own father and mother included) in the 1950's

Like I said, read the book.

pragmatic1

cml387 wrote: »

..and this is why you should read the book.

The DeValera who,despite the almost certain fact that he was born illegitimate,encouraged the creation of a Catholic state which persecuted unmarried mothers,

Whose activities in the 1916 rising led to suspicions of cowardice,whose jealousy of Collins fatally undermined the treaty negotiations,

Whose stubborness over the Oath cause a civil war

and finally whose boneheaded idea of a self sufficient state created an economic backwater in the 1950's which caused thousands of people to emigrate (my own father and mother included) in the 1950's

Like I said, read the book.

Well said. I actually think hes one of the biggest villains in Irish history.

HugoBradyBrown

pragmatic1 wrote: »

Well said. I actually think hes one of the biggest villains in Irish history.

With the greatest possible respect, are people changing the conventional wisdom about Mr de Valera simply on the basis of a film, in general one of the most defective and partial of all forms of historical documents? He was a complex character who lived and was politically active over a very long period, in a variety of situations where ineluctable events frequently forced his hand. Except in the 1066 and all that school of historiography, there is no coming to a definitive conclusion of any utility that a historical person was a Good Thing or a Bad Thing. Certainly Mr de Valera was personally a deeply devout Catholic, yet he declined to make his church the established church, despite considerable lobbying, and even though other political leaders such as General Franco ensured that the church was established in their own countries. This is to take but one single example, lest I drift off-thread - one of the greatest offenses against the readership of any thread!

I recall that when he finally left this world, serious consideration was given in highly-placed circles to introducing a petition for opening the cause for the canonisation of Mr de Valera. It was later judged that this was premature, but such thinking has not gone away, by any means. He was viewed by a large plurality of the population as being the possessor of those heroic virtues meriting such advancement to the altars of the church.

Hugo Brady Brown

cml387

HugoBradyBrown wrote: »

With the greatest possible respect, are people changing the conventional wisdom about Mr de Valera simply on the basis of a film, in general one of the most defective and partial of all forms of historical documents? He was a complex character who lived and was politically active over a very long period, in a variety of situations where ineluctable events frequently forced his hand. Except in the 1066 and all that school of historiography, there is no coming to a definitive conclusion of any utility that a historical person was a Good Thing or a Bad Thing. Certainly Mr de Valera was personally a deeply devout Catholic, yet he declined to make his church the established church, despite considerable lobbying, and even though other political leaders such as General Franco ensured that the church was established in their own countries. This is to take but one single example, lest I drift off-thread - one of the greatest offenses against the readership of any thread!

I recall that when he finally left this world, serious consideration was given in highly-placed circles to introducing a petition for opening the cause for the canonisation of Mr de Valera. It was later judged that this was premature, but such thinking has not gone away, by any means. He was viewed by a large plurality of the population as being the possessor of those heroic virtues meriting such advancement to the altars of the church.

Hugo Brady Brown

He died in the school holidays and denied us a day off. That was the ultimate insult.

Johro

HugoBradyBrown wrote: »

Hugo Brady Brown

Yes. We know. It's your username.
There's really no need to type it in every post.

HugoBradyBrown

Johro wrote: »

Yes. We know. It's your username.
There's really no need to type it in every post.

I'm nonplussed by the sight of the above waste of effort that might have been applied to something more productive.

I have been trained, and see it as the ethical thing to do, always to put my full name under anything I write. To do otherwise is, I believe, cowardly and it opens a person up to writing material that they would not dream of writing if their name were appended to it. I would commend the practice to anyone intending to place their thoughts in the public sphere.


Hugo Brady Brown

Johro

HugoBradyBrown wrote: »

I'm nonplussed by the sight of the above waste of effort that might have been applied to something more productive.

I have been trained, and see it as the ethical thing to do, always to put my full name under anything I write. To do otherwise is, I believe, cowardly and it opens a person up to writing material that they would not dream of writing if their name were appended to it. I would commend the practice to anyone intending to place their thoughts in the public sphere.


Hugo Brady Brown

Precisely. I just don't see the need as your name already appears as the post's source.

Pompey Magnus

HugoBradyBrown wrote: »

I'm nonplussed by the sight of the above waste of effort that might have been applied to something more productive.

I have been trained, and see it as the ethical thing to do, always to put my full name under anything I write.

Your name is identified 3 times with every post you make though, what is the point in having a signature under your signature, both of which also happen to be the exact same as your username?

Morlar

Domo230 wrote: »

I have just started reading Eamon De Valera, Englands greatest spy. A very controversial claim no doubt and not one I would normally consider but I found it lying about the house. After the first few chapters I am still highly sceptical about it but I will wait until the end before I make a conclusion on it. I do think that the analysis of this countries history would be best served by an outsider, one who will be more likely to present the evidence in an impartial manner such as the American author of this book does.

Hah ! That 'author' was on here before. From back in the days when the history and heritage forum used to be interesting :

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055722171