Marathon Recovery: Does it really take 4 weeks?

Micilin Muc

I did DCM in 4:42 on the Monday and felt like I was fully recovered by the Saturday. I'm taking it easy on the pace and distance as recommended by Hal Higdon's Marathon Recovery Plan.

But does it really take 4-5 weeks to recover?!

I didn't get the Taper Madness but I'm really itching to running the mid-week mileage I was doing before the taper! :pac:

RayCun

Take it from tergat, one day per mile raced

Micilin Muc

Thanks Ray, you're a mine of information!

I don't have any niggles or soreness any more and feel quite energetic, so it just feels like I'm wasting it all when I could be out enjoying 5-mile runs etc.

This morning I went out to do 2 miles at 10min/mile pace, but I couldn't hold the pace back. It's driving me mad!

TFBubendorfer

In general, my experience goes as follows:

After 3 or 4 days, the soreness is gone.
After about 2 weeks, the legs feel springy again.

But I have a spreadsheet that gives me a value for each pace/HR correlation. After each marathon the value drops significantly and it takes 4-6 weeks to get back to pre-marathon levels.

E.g. Before DCM, I was hitting 60. DCM itself was 50 (I always get really low levels for the marathon itself). My recent runs were all around 55, and if past experience is anything to go by, I would expect to get back to 60 somewhere in December, even though the legs will have felt fully recovered for several weeks before that.

Based on that, I'd say it actually take a good bit more than 4 weeks to recover from a marathon.

Krusty_Clown

Sounds useful. Care to share the spreadsheet in template format?

BobMac104

ok but that dosent mean we cant run right?

its just we shouldnt do hard sessions for 26 days?

RayCun

That's right, no hard sessions or races but you can run.

BobMac104

what are the dangers of going back too early? injury i take it.

could we get back to doing 6-8milers this week?

HardyEustace

So is it distance or pace that should be avoided?

I know it's an open ended question and everyone is different but do people go back to doing moderately long runs (say 10 miles) relatively quickly?

menoscemo

TFBubendorfer wrote: »

In general, my experience goes as follows:

After 3 or 4 days, the soreness is gone.
After about 2 weeks, the legs feel springy again.

But I have a spreadsheet that gives me a value for each pace/HR correlation. After each marathon the value drops significantly and it takes 4-6 weeks to get back to pre-marathon levels.

E.g. Before DCM, I was hitting 60. DCM itself was 50 (I always get really low levels for the marathon itself). My recent runs were all around 55, and if past experience is anything to go by, I would expect to get back to 60 somewhere in December, even though the legs will have felt fully recovered for several weeks before that.

Based on that, I'd say it actually take a good bit more than 4 weeks to recover from a marathon.

Hmm, I'm surprised by this. I was back to running my normal pace at my normal HR within 5 days of my last two marathons.

I guess everyone is different though.

RayCun

BobMac104 wrote: »

what are the dangers of going back too early? injury i take it.
could we get back to doing 6-8milers this week?

You haven't recovered as much as you think, so every run is a bit harder than you think it is/should be. One of the dangers would be injury, the other is just that you are slowing down your recovery by trying to do too much, too soon.
You might as well stick to the plan ecoli is posting (the Hal Higdon recovery plan) and do 5 miles this weekend.

Brianderunner

RayCun wrote: »

That's right, no hard sessions or races but you can run.

For me the PB window is wide open 2-3 weeks after a marathon, my best races of 2011 have come just after a marathon. Slows down your recovery but it's worth it imo.

Coach at the club has told me that your ok to race again 2 weeks later so there's conflicting views out there.

ThePiedPiper

I think it depends on the effort put in on the day of the race and on the history of the runner.

After my first marathon, I was in no fit state to run for a good 7-8 weeks, the race had taken so much out of me and if I'd gone back running, I'd have gotten even more injured than I already was. But, my starting point for that marathon was 6 miles in July and a sub 3.40 marathon in October. I also put everything I had into that one and couldn't get out of the finishing area for a good 45 minutes. Recovery was always going to be slow.

For my last few marathons, the recovery is quick. Maybe I'm not trying hard enough anymore, or more likely, when an aggressive time target gets away from me, I take the foot off completely and don't do any more muscle damage than I would do on any long run.

It's now been 10 days since the DCM and I'm getting my runners on this afternoon for a few miles.

There's an interesting story that the day after the Chicago marathon in 2010, Sammy Wanjiru who had won an epic battle with Kebede in the race, was spotted by the race director doing a jog. When asked about it, he had ran 70 minutes at his easy/recovery pace!!! Now, that's got to be too much but by the same measure, it would indicate that it doesn't take 4 weeks for an athlete who is highly tuned to recover. Everyone will be different.

Pisco Sour

Has any elite athlete ever run a marathon in a major championships and then gone on to win a medal on the track afterwards at either 5000m or 10000m in the same championships? Would be interesting to know.

BobMac104

No but its been done the other way around won a 10,000 then won the marathon a few days later.

Pisco Sour

BobMac104 wrote: »

No but its been done the other way around won a 10,000 then won the marathon a few days later.

Yeh Zatopek being the most notable example.

Was just interested to know if somebody did it the other way around given the thread topic.

Krusty_Clown

04072511 wrote: »

Has any elite athlete ever run a marathon in a major championships and then gone on to win a medal on the track afterwards at either 5000m or 10000m in the same championships? Would be interesting to know.

Lots of examples of runners going in the other direction and winning medals at multiple distances (in ascending order), e.g. Emil Zapotek with the 5,000m, 10,000m and marathon, all completed in 8 days.

*Edit*: got there before me. Still, some nice youtube links! Another correction, he won the 10,000m, then the 5,000m then the marathon.

BobMac104

he really was a ledge!

opus

menoscemo wrote: »

Hmm, I'm surprised by this. I was back to running my normal pace at my normal HR within 5 days of my last two marathons.

I guess everyone is different though.

On a spur of the moment decision I entered the Cork to Cobh 15 mile race last year which was exactly one week after the Berlin marathon mainly cause I think I was a bit cheesed off with my marathon performance. Didn't seem to do me any harm that I could see at the time.

Did the opposite this year & took a week's break from any running & then followed the P&D recovery program after that which was mostly recovery runs for the first two weeks.

TFBubendorfer

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

Sounds useful. Care to share the spreadsheet in template format?

I got it from my former coach and even though he might not object to me sharing it out, I don't know for sure if he does. Sorry.

But it's basically a VDOT calculator. There might be something available from the internet if you google it, though a quick search for VDOT calculators just seems to come up with VDOT estimations from race results rather than pace/HR data.

dna_leri

TFBubendorfer wrote: »

I got it from my former coach and even though he might not object to me sharing it out, I don't know for sure if he does. Sorry.

But it's basically a VDOT calculator. There might be something available from the internet if you google it, though a quick search for VDOT calculators just seems to come up with VDOT estimations from race results rather than pace/HR data.

Something like this one?

TFBubendorfer

menoscemo wrote: »

Hmm, I'm surprised by this. I was back to running my normal pace at my normal HR within 5 days of my last two marathons.

I guess everyone is different though.

Just an example:

on 28 Oct I averaged 7:29 pace on HR 141, giving me a VDOT value of 59.8.
yesterday I averaged 7:49 pace on HR 143, VDOT value 55.4

Both values are fairly typical of most runs around the same week.

Ah what the hell, I even have a google docs spreadsheet with all my values over the last few months. Check it out if you're really curious.

TFBubendorfer

dna_leri wrote: »

Something like this one?

Crikey, that looks complicated. Mine is a lot more straightforward, but I think this one may well do the trick if you manage to work out how.

elvis jones

Ran 5k yesterday which was my 1st run since DCM. My legs felt fine but the end of last week, my body felt fine.............BUT my legs were heavy but the end of it.

I'm personally not recovered fully and need to take it slower than i'd planned to do.

I believe every one is different and perhaps as it was my 1st marathon my body took it harder than someone else.

Younganne

heres one http://www.runbayou.com/jackd.htm

meijin

VDOT Calculator which produces quite detailed tables - http://fellrnr.com/wiki/VDOT_Calculator
also Efficiency calculator - http://fellrnr.com/wiki/Running_Efficiency_Calculator

overall, quite interesting site

YFlyer

There was 3 athletes (at least) that ran the Limerick County Cross Country Championships this Sunday who had ran a marathon the week before either in Dublin or Frankfurt. These athletes came in 2nd, 4th and 5th.

One of these athletes also raced in a 7 Km road race at the University of Limerick the thursday after the Dublin marathon.