firewood processor

vanderbadger

anyone ever hire one out or buy one. they seem very dear but hiring might be a good idea if one bought a lorry of wood from coillte you could split it up over a weekend. have bought some firewood this year and to be honest it wasnt great value so just trying to think of better ways of sorting it for the winter. if anyone has hired one what did it cost or who did you hire from

Grecco

Are you on about a log splitter? or is it something different

I find that the timber from Coillte isnt that great for firewood, unless you plan to burn it in a stove or range as for an open fire its a no no

Anyone buy coal recently? I got a bag of what I thought was coal the other day but turned out to be some type of oval nuggets

vanderbadger

Grecco wrote: »

Are you on about a log splitter? or is it something different

I find that the timber from Coillte isnt that great for firewood, unless you plan to burn it in a stove or range as for an open fire its a no no

Anyone buy coal recently? I got a bag of what I thought was coal the other day but turned out to be some type of oval nuggets

well they cut and split usually i think, some big ones have a kind of conveyor for filling trailers etc with the split timber, its a stove im talking about. would you be able to get anything other than sitka from coillte i wonder. it grand but burns very quick

VNP

Yeah I think the cheapest processors start about 6 or 7 grand dont know anyone who d hire them they re not that dangerous but they re still dodgey for a hire tool, and you'd want a power of stuff to make it worth while, if you have a trailer someone you know might let you fill the trailer in exchange for a few hours labour or diesel costs ?

hammer73

vanderbadger wrote: »

anyone ever hire one out or buy one. they seem very dear but hiring might be a good idea if one bought a lorry of wood from coillte you could split it up over a weekend. have bought some firewood this year and to be honest it wasnt great value so just trying to think of better ways of sorting it for the winter. if anyone has hired one what did it cost or who did you hire from

You will only be able to hire one with an operator for obvious reasons. Too expensive to let an inexperienced person loose on. I saw someone advertising at tullamore a couple of years ago, think it might have been Worrell harvesting but I'll check my photos and get back to you.

temujinhayes

hammer73 wrote: »

vanderbadger wrote: »

anyone ever hire one out or buy one. they seem very dear but hiring might be a good idea if one bought a lorry of wood from coillte you could split it up over a weekend. have bought some firewood this year and to be honest it wasnt great value so just trying to think of better ways of sorting it for the winter. if anyone has hired one what did it cost or who did you hire from

You will only be able to hire one with an operator for obvious reasons. Too expensive to let an inexperienced person loose on. I saw someone advertising at tullamore a couple of years ago, think it might have been Worrell harvesting but I'll check my photos and get back to you.

I work in forestry and process firewood. Softwood from coillte burns quick and hot, fine for efficient stoves. Hardwood is always better, I thin mainly ash and oak, never a problem to sell but must be properly seasoned to burn properly. A company called mlarge in Belfast sell firewood processors starting from 1000 euro.

vanderbadger

temujinhayes wrote: »

I work in forestry and process firewood. Softwood from coillte burns quick and hot, fine for efficient stoves. Hardwood is always better, I thin mainly ash and oak, never a problem to sell but must be properly seasoned to burn properly. A company called mlarge in Belfast sell firewood processors starting from 1000 euro.

thanks
so would it be possible to buy ash and oak thinnings from coillte, how would one go about it and would you have to buy a full lorry or what?

reilig

vanderbadger wrote: »

thanks
so would it be possible to buy ash and oak thinnings from coillte, how would one go about it and would you have to buy a full lorry or what?

I chased Coillte for a long time for hardwood thinnings. They did quote me. €2500 + VAT for a 25 ton load. It was €1000 + VAT for a 25 ton load of softwood at the time. It just wouldn't be cost effective to buy the hardwood over the softwood at that price. I have a gasifier and softwood burns ok in it compared to a stove or a range. I'm in the process of getting thinnings from a neighbour who's forestry joins my land - it will be less than half the price of coillte, and the forwarder will be able to leave it across the ditch into my land.

If you want to buy from coillte, you have to contact their harvesting managers in your area. A list of them can be found on the coillte website.

I agree with temujinhayes - M Large are the market leaders in wood processing and log boilers. See their website here www.mlarge.co.uk

They had a great display at the ploughing championships. There are some cheap wood processors to be got, but if you ant comfort and reliability, you need to be spending up to €6000 minimum.

vanderbadger

reilig wrote: »

I chased Coillte for a long time for hardwood thinnings. They did quote me. €2500 + VAT for a 25 ton load. It was €1000 + VAT for a 25 ton load of softwood at the time. It just wouldn't be cost effective to buy the hardwood over the softwood at that price. I have a gasifier and softwood burns ok in it compared to a stove or a range. I'm in the process of getting thinnings from a neighbour who's forestry joins my land - it will be less than half the price of coillte, and the forwarder will be able to leave it across the ditch into my land.

If you want to buy from coillte, you have to contact their harvesting managers in your area. A list of them can be found on the coillte website.

I agree with temujinhayes - M Large are the market leaders in wood processing and log boilers. See their website here www.mlarge.co.uk

They had a great display at the ploughing championships. There are some cheap wood processors to be got, but if you ant comfort and reliability, you need to be spending up to €6000 minimum.

ya way too dear unless a man was going into that business which i have no intention of, that why I wondered about the hiring option, see alot of lads on donedeal selling firewood but dont know if there is much value in it, there isnt much in a 10 x 6 trailer really so just trying to figure out a better way of doing it

cgarrad

http://www.machinemart.co.uk/shop/search/filter/log-splitters--saws/type/any/module/shopcategory/page/1

Rovi

Firewood processors for hire appear in DoneDeal pretty regularly, there's one there right now:
http://www.donedeal.ie/for-sale/machinery/2691097

I suspect these things aren't really intended for the casual inexperienced user though, the same way as it's pretty much impossible to hire chainsaws any more.

vanderbadger

Rovi wrote: »

Firewood processors for hire appear in DoneDeal pretty regularly, there's one there right now:
http://www.donedeal.ie/for-sale/machinery/2691097

I suspect these things aren't really intended for the casual inexperienced user though, the same way as it's pretty much impossible to hire chainsaws any more.

ya see a few lads offering them, I suppose if one had a lorry load of stuff it would be a good way to get it chopped and split

reilig

Rovi wrote: »

Firewood processors for hire appear in DoneDeal pretty regularly, there's one there right now:
http://www.donedeal.ie/for-sale/machinery/2691097

I suspect these things aren't really intended for the casual inexperienced user though, the same way as it's pretty much impossible to hire chainsaws any more.

I think the problem with them is as said above - they come with an operator. You wouldn't get to horse through wood if he/she was on a 9 to 5. So th eplan to hire it for a weekend to split 2 year's worth of wood would be out

I'd love to know what the daily hire rate would be though!!

temujinhayes

vanderbadger wrote: »

thanks
so would it be possible to buy ash and oak thinnings from coillte, how would one go about it and would you have to buy a full lorry or what?

highly unlikely they would have any, best bet is to go to coillte website and look to find a number for your regional office. then call them and ask for manager over thinning/felling and ask him about wood availability. otherwise try timbersales.ie, which lists wood for sale from private woodland owners/contractors

temujinhayes

i use this firewood processor http://mlarge.com/bilke_products_1.html.
process mainly hardwood thinnings, on a good day we will process approx. 20 cubic metres of 30cm logs. at home i burn only wood in a range which does the rads and hot water, small house, well insulated. last winter i burned 14 cubic metres, so in one good day on this processor i can do a winter's worth of fuel. but the thing that takes time is the marking of the trees, then the thinning and extraction. the max diametre this processor will take is 22cm, anything bigger we split first. for processing softwood it is best to use the hakki pilke processors. don't buy wood by weight, the cubic meter measure is the european standard. the average price for a cubic metre of seasoned, (ie 12 months of air drying in a covered environment) hardwood is 90 to 95 euro.

vanderbadger

temujinhayes wrote: »

i use this firewood processor http://mlarge.com/bilke_products_1.html.
process mainly hardwood thinnings, on a good day we will process approx. 20 cubic metres of 30cm logs. at home i burn only wood in a range which does the rads and hot water, small house, well insulated. last winter i burned 14 cubic metres, so in one good day on this processor i can do a winter's worth of fuel. but the thing that takes time is the marking of the trees, then the thinning and extraction. the max diametre this processor will take is 22cm, anything bigger we split first. for processing softwood it is best to use the hakki pilke processors. don't buy wood by weight, the cubic meter measure is the european standard. the average price for a cubic metre of seasoned, (ie 12 months of air drying in a covered environment) hardwood is 90 to 95 euro.

thanks temujin, i got quoted about 60 euro per cubic meter for hardwood with softwood the other day, thats me collecting the stuff now, doesnt seem too bad although i suppose it would depend on how much hardwood is mixed in

hammer73

It was worrell harvesting that was I saw at the tullamore show advertising processor hire. worrellharvesting.ie or 045 529574

CJhaughey

A mate of mine has a Posch K440 pretty amazing to see it operating, he likes the Posch gear reckons its strong.
Generally he buys Coillte rejects which are too knotty for fencing but ideal for firewood with a high resin content.
Hardwoods don't work well in the processor, they are usually too bent and don't feed well.
He uses a vertical splitter and a PTO driven circular saw to cut them to size.
I buy a 1m2 bucket of softwood from him for 35 and hard wood 40 picked up from his depot/yard.

vanderbadger

CJhaughey wrote: »

A mate of mine has a Posch K440 pretty amazing to see it operating, he likes the Posch gear reckons its strong.
Generally he buys Coillte rejects which are too knotty for fencing but ideal for firewood with a high resin content.
Hardwoods don't work well in the processor, they are usually too bent and don't feed well.
He uses a vertical splitter and a PTO driven circular saw to cut them to size.
I buy a 1m2 bucket of softwood from him for 35 and hard wood 40 picked up from his depot/yard.

jeez big looking machine

glenkeo

A neighbour bought a large load (one of the 40’ loads) of Coillte for around €1100. He hired a guy with a harvester on back of a tractor that cut and split the lengths to whatever size you want and a conveyor belt loaded it in to trailers, He charged €40 an hour and got through the full load in 9 hours, they got 18 good size trailers loads that cost around €280 around here.

CJhaughey

vanderbadger wrote: »

jeez big looking machine

Yep, its big but you can do a lot of work without killing yourself.
The loader puts the logs onto the feed table and once thats filled you don't have to touch any timber.
Great system and the harvester bar is easier to keep sharp then circular blades.
Its his business so he takes it serious.

younggrinner

reilig wrote: »

I chased Coillte for a long time for hardwood thinnings. They did quote me. €2500 + VAT for a 25 ton load. It was €1000 + VAT for a 25 ton load of softwood at the time.

Anyone know how many m3 would be in a 25 ton load after splitting. Would you get 40m3 from 25 ton of softwood?

temujinhayes

younggrinner wrote: »

reilig wrote: »

I chased Coillte for a long time for hardwood thinnings. They did quote me. €2500 + VAT for a 25 ton load. It was €1000 + VAT for a 25 ton load of softwood at the time.

Anyone know how many m3 would be in a 25 ton load after splitting. Would you get 40m3 from 25 ton of softwood?

hi. there is approx 2.5m3 in a ton of 3m lengths of ash thinnings. once processed into 30cm logs it comes out at about 2m3. can be alot of variability. softwood is straighter and less airspace when stacked so 25 ton of softwood equals about 55m3, when processed it should come out at about 45m3 to 50m3.

younggrinner

Spoke to one of the harvesting managers a week or 2 ago. Quoted €1250 for a load of softwood. He reckoned there'd be about 30 cubic metres in it.

reilig

younggrinner wrote: »

Spoke to one of the harvesting managers a week or 2 ago. Quoted €1250 for a load of softwood. He reckoned there'd be about 30 cubic metres in it.

He's bullsh1tting you.

I'm sorry to be blunt, but he's tricking you by telling you that you will get 30 cubic meters. Put simply, an arctic lorry will carry 25 ton (no more because of the legal weight limit, but maybe less). 1 m3 of unseasoned pulp wood weighs approximately 1.2 ton.

Simple maths 25/1.2=20.8 m3 maximum in a load of pulp wood which is suitable for firewood.

Actual cost comes in at approximately Eur60 per m3. Last time I spoke to Coillte they gave me a price of 1250 too and it was + VAT!!

Just before christmas, a private forest close to me was being thinned and I went to the machine driver (harvesting company owner) to see if he would sell some to me. He said that he would leave out what wasn't suitable for saw logs or too big for fencing posts and I could decide if I wanted it at the end. He ended up leaviing out 49m3 of wood for me - which he measured in front of me and invited me to measure. His price was Eur900 to include loading. I collected them with the tractor and dump trailer and tipped them in front of my shed - ready for sawing. 8 full load. I weighed a few of the loads in a local quarry and they were between 7.3 and 7.5 ton per load.

Cost per m3 for me was just over EUR18.

Its some difference.

You should try looking on the internet for local forestry harvesting companies. There's massive savings to be made.

dar31

im looking to get some one in to fell trees and bow more of them.
trees ranging from 1-3+ foot in diameter, ash and oak mainly.
how much could i expect to get for the timber by the ton or load
very hard to judge, but reckon the could be 100 - 150 t of timber

ps. the lad felling would be buying it, and have insurance

greenfingers89

reilig wrote: »

He's bullsh1tting you.1 m3 of unseasoned pulp wood weighs approximately 1.2 ton.

he may not be bullshi tting reilig......i would have thought its the other way around to what you say..isn't it 1 ton : 1.2 m3....
.... if the logs arn't very fresh you would easily get 30 cubed onto a load. i've seen logs less than a month felled coming in between 1.1 and 1.3 conversion factor more than a few times. i've also seen fresh timber (measured within 2 days) convert almost exactly 1 to 1......
theres plenty of loads on the road that sometimes look only 2/3 full, thats how wet timber can be verses a (sometimes) dangerously loaded truck just because the timber is drier.

on some sites a company may wait a couple of months to allow drying and reduce transport over a long haul because the timber may be left at the drop off point to dry anyway before use (say if a woodchip producer bought timber in march, he would be stacking logs in his yard until august/september anyway)

greenfingers89

temujinhayes wrote: »

25 ton of softwood equals about 55m3, when processed it should come out at about 45m3 to 50m3.

hmmm im not so sure...it would have to be an extremely dry 25t to be anything near 55 cubed....and my experience of blocking lengths is the cubes increase not decrease because there way more air....fairly sure if you had a full artic load of logs and then you blocked it you wouldn't be even close to fitting the blocks back into the arctic (unless of course you put them back like a jigsaw)

say an example of
25t = 35-40m3 (pretty dry timber in lengths, also known as solid)
40m3 solid = 60-70m3 (blocked, also known as loose)

reilig

I'm just giving the weights that I got when I weighed the wood that I bought. I have read various estimates of weights, but as they say, the proof of the pudding is in the eating!!

Coillte harvesting managers specifically say that the wood that they sell is green unseasoned wood - usually no longer than a week harvested as harvesting sites are usually cleared quickly to prevent theft and to ensure that a machine is on hand in case the lorry gets into difficulty while navigating the forestry road!!

Also, sika will weigh a good bit heavier than norway spruce. I'd prefer a load of sika than a load or norway - mainly for the extra burn time!!

greenfingers89 wrote: »

he may not be bullshi tting reilig......i would have thought its the other way around to what you say..isn't it 1 ton : 1.2 m3....
.... if the logs arn't very fresh you would easily get 30 cubed onto a load. i've seen logs less than a month felled coming in between 1.1 and 1.3 conversion factor more than a few times. i've also seen fresh timber (measured within 2 days) convert almost exactly 1 to 1......
theres plenty of loads on the road that sometimes look only 2/3 full, thats how wet timber can be verses a (sometimes) dangerously loaded truck just because the timber is drier.

on some sites a company may wait a couple of months to allow drying and reduce transport over a long haul because the timber may be left at the drop off point to dry anyway before use (say if a woodchip producer bought timber in march, he would be stacking logs in his yard until august/september anyway)

younggrinner

reilig wrote: »

He's bullsh1tting you.

I'm sorry to be blunt.

Blunt is good! May avoid a nasty surprise when i'm measuring it in the yard. The price he quoted me was €1250 including VAT and haulage. Sounds like you can't accurately estimate how many m3 in a load unless you know the type of wood and how long its cut.

You got a good deal on your 49m3. Do you know what the harvester would have done with this wood otherwise? Lot of wood to leave rot, would he have some other use for it or was he happy to get rid of it?

At €18 m3 you're doing alright - nice margin on it if you're selling. Not so much if you get it for €60m3!

reilig

He would have sold it for pulp if I didn't take it.

Selling wood by weight leaves the buyer in a position that he may be ripped off. As greenfingers pointed out, there are several factors that determine the weight of wood, including how long the wood has been seasoned and what type of wood it is (hardwood, softwood, birch, oak, ash, willow, sika, norway etc). Whe you buy by weight, there is no way to determine how much you will receive. It would be better to buy by m3 - that way you wil know how much you are getting!!

younggrinner wrote: »

reilig wrote: »

He's bullsh1tting you.

I'm sorry to be blunt.

Blunt is good! May avoid a nasty surprise when i'm measuring it in the yard. The price he quoted me was €1250 including VAT and haulage. Sounds like you can't accurately estimate how many m3 in a load unless you know the type of wood and how long its cut.

You got a good deal on your 49m3. Do you know what the harvester would have done with this wood otherwise? Lot of wood to leave rot, would he have some other use for it or was he happy to get rid of it?

At €18 m3 you're doing alright - nice margin on it if you're selling. Not so much if you get it for €60m3!

greenfingers89

reilig wrote: »

Coillte harvesting managers specifically say that the wood that they sell is green unseasoned wood - usually no longer than a week harvested as harvesting sites are usually cleared quickly

Also, sika will weigh a good bit heavier than norway spruce. I'd prefer a load of sika than a load or norway - mainly for the extra burn time!!

I have to smile at what coillte foresters sometimes tell people. :rolleyes: my experience of coillte sites is yes the majority of the timber is moved pretty quickly but the few loads sold as firewood are generally the bits of stacks that couldn't be fit onto a last load or a few small stacks that were forgotton about - thats why i reckon they might be a lot drier than te majority.

interesting what you say about sitka spruce v norway....havnt any experience of burning norway but i would of thought because its a slower grower it would be slightly denser and make the same or slightly better firewood.......even though you get extra burn time outta the sitka would it give out as much heat pound for pound? i suppose the difference cant be that great between two strains of the one family

greenfingers89

reilig wrote: »

there are several factors that determine the weight of wood, including how long the wood has been seasoned and what type of wood it is. Whe you buy by weight, there is no way to determine how much you will receive. It would be better to buy by m3

agree 100%. generally if anyone is buying small scale like discussed here it might be best to just agree a price for a full lorry/artic load....general guidline is add €5-10/t to softwoods if it has say 3 months drying and €10-20/t for hardwoods......of course if you get dry stuff and nobody looks for any extra then say nothing!

reilig

From talking to harvesting and transport contractors timber moves very fast off harvesting sites these days. Coillte's policy is to put terms into contracts that payment will only be made when the harvesting site is completely clear. It's a serious bone of contention with contractors. Their policy is to clear all as the forwarder is dropping it - even a half load at the end. This ensures prompt payment.

Sika at 20% moisture weighs about 10% heavier than Norway in my experience and Burns longer. made

greenfingers89 wrote: »

reilig wrote: »

Coillte harvesting managers specifically say that the wood that they sell is green unseasoned wood - usually no longer than a week harvested as harvesting sites are usually cleared quickly

Also, sika will weigh a good bit heavier than norway spruce. I'd prefer a load of sika than a load or norway - mainly for the extra burn time!!

I have to smile at what coillte foresters sometimes tell people. :rolleyes: my experience of coillte sites is yes the majority of the timber is moved pretty quickly but the few loads sold as firewood are generally the bits of stacks that couldn't be fit onto a last load or a few small stacks that were forgotton about - thats why i reckon they might be a lot drier than te majority.

interesting what you say about sitka spruce v norway....havnt any experience of burning norway but i would of thought because its a slower grower it would be slightly denser and make the same or slightly better firewood.......even though you get extra burn time outta the sitka would it give out as much heat pound for pound? i suppose the difference cant be that great between two strains of the one family

greenfingers89

hmmm i suppose we've experienced opposite ends of the coillte spectrum reilig (many colours it has too!:eek:)...whatever anyone says about coillte, they certainly draw debate out of people..unfortunately its often more serious than this thread:o