Radio fence for dog

anamaria

Hi everyone,

I am going to buy a radio fence as I am really worried that my dog is going to run out on to the room. We live in the country and have a really large garden surrounded by fields. I have fenced that area off but as she is a terrier she always finds a way through the fences.

Can anyone recommend a radio/wireless fence for a medium size dog (Cairn terrier X)? I don't know enough about them and it's quite a big investment. I would love to hear from people who have had good experiences with them and what to avoid?

ppink

anamaria wrote: »

Hi everyone,

I am going to buy a radio fence as I am really worried that my dog is going to run out on to the room. We live in the country and have a really large garden surrounded by fields. I have fenced that area off but as she is a terrier she always finds a way through the fences.

Can anyone recommend a radio/wireless fence for a medium size dog (Cairn terrier X)? I don't know enough about them and it's quite a big investment. I would love to hear from people who have had good experiences with them and what to avoid?

there are threads upon threads on this forum regarding these fences. If you use the search function you will be able to read all about them pros and cons.
my experience: picking up 2 puppies from a busy intersection after the power turned off and the dogs complete with collars ran off. I must have been carrying about €2000 worth of puppies and collars around to try to find the owners.......lucky I was not looking to rob them!!

If you have a nervous dog you run the risk of making a wreck of the dog.

If your dog is smart he will figure out how to wear out the batteries and head off anyway.
It will nto stop anyone from stealing him.

Can you not build a run?

andreac

Do not buy one!! They are cruel, un reliable and not safe for your dog, end of!

If your dog finds a way out already, no doubt she will find a way out of the radio fence. Please do the responsible thing and build a proper dog run or fence off a small area and leave her in there while you arent around.

anamaria

andreac wrote: »

Do not buy one!! They are cruel, un reliable and not safe for your dog, end of!

If your dog finds a way out already, no doubt she will find a way out of the radio fence. Please do the responsible thing and build a proper dog run or fence off a small area and leave her in there while you arent around.

Thanks. I have a purpose built dog run at the moment which she digs out of sometimes. She is never in it for very long. I have the back garden securely fenced off but every now and then someone leaves the front gate/door open and its times like that i wish i had back up

andreac

Well im sorry, but a radio fence wont be back up, it will be far from back up. I suggest concreting the edge of the run so she cant dig her way out or put concrete slab around the edge of the run.
Otehrwise, can you not keep her indoors?

Sounds like your dog could be bored either if it keeps trying to escape, so maybe look into exercising her more to tire her out.

Sigma Force

I'm with the others on this I wouldn't use one.

Use cheap patio slabs and place them around the inside edge of the dog run, fill in any areas the dog tries to dig out of..usually it takes time for a dog to dig their way out so if you check the run daily then you should be able to see where the dog is digging and fill it in.

Invest in some cheapy signs that say Please close the gate..it helps but not everyone cops on to them. Also invest in a battery operated doorbell and attach it beside the gate and put a proper lock or lock and chain on the gate itself..that way if people want to come in they have to ring the door bell first. It's not big deal and people get used to it. It's a simple change to make that could save your dogs life. Ensure every time someone leaves that you check the gate. It's another thing you will get used to doing before letting the dog out.

It only takes one time so be vigilant.

You can use a dog run panel and dog run gate (like cilldara.ie ..I swear I don't work for them I just love their products!) depending on which way you are set up.

Delancey

Utter waste of time and money - between power cuts and inevitably forgetting to change the batteries your dog will run off - they are not reliable.
Find another solution.

almighty1

I have to say I wholeheartedly disagree with all the negativity posted about these fences here. I have one (Golden Retriever) and my next door neighbour (Cocker Spanial) in a rural location.

The fences work great for us, you can adjust shock level to suit size of dog.
And if trained correctly the dog will instinctively know where not to go regardless of the buzzer going off or not.

I think they are less crueler than a run or letting the dog roam outside.

Irishchick

almighty1 wrote: »

you can adjust shock level to suit size of dog.

There is no such thing. Put it around your own neck and see how you like it. It will turn your dog into a wreck.

I don't get why people wont just train their dogs and give them proper exercise to tire them out. Laziness I suppose.

mikom

almighty1 wrote: »

you can adjust shock level to suit size of dog.

Irishchick wrote: »

There is no such thing.

I have Alessandro Volta on line 1 for you Irishchick

Irishchick

I meant no such thing as a "level" to "suit" your dog. Being shocked in the neck doesn't suit any animal. Its a negative reinforcement method for people who are too lazy to actually train their animal.

Sigma Force

Yes it is less cruel than allowing a dog roam and get hit by a car but they are not realiable so you run the risk anyway and it doesn't stop other dogs getting in. Rural people are just as likely to let their dogs roam so even if living in a rural area other dogs will still pop round and can cause problems.

eilo1

Irishchick wrote: »

I meant no such thing as a "level" to "suit" your dog. Being shocked in the neck doesn't suit any animal. Its a negative reinforcement method for people who are too lazy to actually train their animal.

Works really well for cows and horses in the form of electric fencing. I don't see why this would be different for dogs.

Although I do agree they have their draw backs in regards, to the animal escaping and not wanting to come back through the shock and electricity failing. However I have seen a good few dogs with them on who seem very happy and healthy.

almighty1

Irishchick wrote: »

It will turn your dog into a wreck.

You got to love sweeping generalisations. Obviously it will affect a nervous dog more than other but I think if its introduced at a young age then there shouldnt be many (if any) anxiety problems.

Irishchick wrote: »

........ who are too lazy to actually train their animal.

You can train dogs not to go outside of your boundary? Id like you to expand on that point.

andreac

eilo1 wrote: »

Works really well for cows and horses in the form of electric fencing. I don't see why this would be different for dogs.

Although I do agree they have their draw backs in regards, to the animal escaping and not wanting to come back through the shock and electricity failing. However I have seen a good few dogs with them on who seem very happy and healthy.

Sorry but thats wrong. Electric fences for livestock differ than radio collars because they dont hit cattle or horses on their necks like they are on dogs so the impact of the shock on a dog would be a hell of a lot more painful.

mikom

andreac wrote: »

Sorry but thats wrong. Electric fences for livestock differ than radio collars because they dont hit cattle or horses on their necks like they are on dogs so the impact of the shock on a dog would be a hell of a lot more painful.

Ever seen a bullock lick an electric fence....... I have.

eilo1

andreac wrote: »

Sorry but thats wrong.

No its not.

andreac wrote: »

Electric fences for livestock differ than radio collars because they dont hit cattle or horses on their necks like they are on dogs so the impact of the shock on a dog would be a hell of a lot more painful.

The majority of times animals get a shock is when they are leaning over the fence trying to eat the lovely grass on the other side. Hence they get a shock directly to the neck.

Iv been shocked numerous times by this type and fencing, its a short sharp sensation. Its not pleasant but nothing more than a little scratch or a nip.

Plus the sensation is not intensified by its proximity to the brain, so being in the neck is not more or less painful than say in torso or tail.

Graces7

Sigh.... Always the same.

Terriers are Houdinis. A run is not cruel; it is sense and care. If you cannot keep an eye on your dog then pen it.

And a dog's experience of pain is totally different from ours. Our LL here can hold the live fence wire and say it does not hurt him. With me, it is an intense ache and jarring I can feel for hours afterwards.

Our wee JRT cross is a houdini; she can get over the inner garden wall unless it is raised higher. So she is never allowed out there alone.

We are surrounded by fields with electric fences. She once experienced the pain of that and so she finds her own way round the edge of the field where the fence runs higher.

She has a good run out there and a few shorter walks.

Leaving the dog our also means a real risk it will be stolen. NO WAY .

eilo1

Graces7 wrote: »

Sigh.... Always the same.

Terriers are Houdinis. A run is not cruel; it is sense and care. If you cannot keep an eye on your dog then pen it.

And a dog's experience of pain is totally different from ours. Our LL here can hold the live fence wire and say it does not hurt him. With me, it is an intense ache and jarring I can feel for hours afterwards.

Our wee JRT cross is a houdini; she can get over the inner garden wall unless it is raised higher. So she is never allowed out there alone.

We are surrounded by fields with electric fences. She once experienced the pain of that and so she finds her own way round the edge of the field where the fence runs higher.

She has a good run out there and a few shorter walks.

Leaving the dog our also means a real risk it will be stolen. NO WAY .

Any scientific evidence to back that up with?

With regards to the pain you feel afterwards, that is clearly not the norm.

To put this in perceptive the shock from an electric fence is not enough to cause a muscle contraction.
Physiotherapists use electrical stimulation to cause a muscle to contract in an aim to regain strength in said muscle.

Patients will have this therapy for anywhere from 5 to 15 minutes up to three times a day. I have had this myself and there is plenty of research to prove that although the sensation is not pleasant it is not seriously painful and causes good, not harm in these people.

littlebug

eilo1 wrote: »

Physiotherapists use electrical stimulation to cause a muscle to contract in an aim to regain strength in said muscle.

Patients will have this therapy for anywhere from 5 to 15 minutes up to three times a day. I have had this myself and there is plenty of research to prove that although the sensation is not pleasant it is not seriously painful and causes good, not harm in these people.

That's completely different I've had the treatment you talk of and while it's certainly uncomfortable it most certainly isn't anything close to the shock from an electric fence and I have had (numerous) shocks from electric (cattle) fences.
When trying to figure out how to contain my houdini I had one acquaintance regale me of how wonderful the fence/ collar thing is then went on to tell me how her husband got a shock of it one day by mistake and couldn't move his hand properly for 5 days
Another I know spent a fortune getting it installed and his dog could jump so high and fast over it, it didn't affect him at all. ..
Not worth it IMO

eilo1

littlebug wrote: »

That's completely different I've had the treatment you talk of and while it's certainly uncomfortable it most certainly isn't anything close to the shock from an electric fence and I have had (numerous) shocks from electric (cattle) fences.
When trying to figure out how to contain my houdini I had one acquaintance regale me of how wonderful the fence/ collar thing is then went on to tell me how her husband got a shock of it one day by mistake and couldn't move his hand properly for 5 days
Another I know spent a fortune getting it installed and his dog could jump so high and fast over it, it didn't affect him at all. ..
Not worth it IMO

I think you have misinterpreted my posts. I have already said I think there are draw backs such as the one you highlighted.

My comparison on the use of EMS in physio was in response to a claim that a person felt "jarred and ached for hours after a shock". (which is not normal)

The voltage used in shock collars is lower than used in rehab therapy. I was trying to give a reference point to people who may not have felt this shock so they have a realistic idea of what it feels like.

portgirl123

eilo 1, if these fences/collars are no harm, why have they been banned in wales? there trying to get the law passed in england as well

eilo1

portgirl123 wrote: »

eilo 1, if these fences/collars are no harm, why have they been banned in wales? there trying to get the law passed in england as well

Political lobbying by animal rights groups.

The UK also banned hunting with hounds and tried to bring in stringent whip rules in racing. (these rules had to be altered and are still being watched carefully, despite the report carried out on the issue from which the BHA based their decisions, stating whip use in racing was not a welfare issue)

Anyways this is all off topic.

IMO the shock collar is not as big a deal as some people would have you believe, you yourself have experience a stronger shock and found it therapeutic.

feichin

I live in a rural location and have no problem with our labrador and his radio fence collar.Occasionally when some of the neighbours dogs come to visit he will escape (rarely), usually due to excitement and running over a cattle grid with out realising the consequences. Under normal circumstances we could take the collar off him and he wouldn't leave.
I'm not sure whether this would be a suitable solution in an urban semi d setting but in a rural detached location where the dog has plenty of room i would definately recommend it

DBB

eilo1 wrote: »

IMO the shock collar is not as big a deal as some people would have you believe, you yourself have experience a stronger shock and found it therapeutic.

So, let me get this straight. Are you claiming that a dog getting shocked from the radio fence is actually receiving some sort of therapeutic effect from it?
Can you please provide some way of backing up your claim? I don't mean how you feel when you go for some procedure, I mean proper, researched evidence please.

I would like to point out that whilst humans can electively go for electrical stimulation therapies (which are administered at targeted sites, presumably by a trained clinician), a shock from a radio or electric fence is non-elective. And, as I have pointed out here ad infinitum, it is not the strength of the shock that's the problem, it's the anticipation of it that does the harm, psychologically/behaviourally speaking.

For your information, e-collars were banned in Wales based on scientific evidence, as is all welfare legislation. While lobby power may bring these issues to the table, it is research and empirical evidence that ultimately turns it into law.

eilo1

DBB wrote: »

So, let me get this straight. Are you claiming that a dog getting shocked from the radio fence is actually receiving some sort of therapeutic effect from it?
Can you please provide some way of backing up your claim? I don't mean how you feel when you go for some procedure, I mean proper, researched evidence please.

No that is not what I am saying, perhaps you should reread over all of my posts on this. Im saying the shock is minimal and basically no worse than a nip from a bitch.

DBB wrote: »

I would like to point out that whilst humans can electively go for electrical stimulation therapies (which are administered at targeted sites, presumably by a trained clinician), a shock from a radio or electric fence is non-elective.

As non elective as being locked in a pen for hours, being tied around your neck to a moving anchor or being taken from your mother at a young age.

DBB wrote: »

For your information, e-collars were banned in Wales based on scientific evidence, as is all welfare legislation. While lobby power may bring these issues to the table, it is research and empirical evidence that ultimately turns it into law.

And for your information that is nativity at its best, the new horse whip rules being a prime example. Its popularity backed up by bias and or selective research.

ISDW

eilo1 wrote: »

And for your information that is nativity at its best, the new horse whip rules being a prime example. Its popularity backed up by bias and or selective research.

Brilliant typo, for the time of year;)

eilo1

ISDW wrote: »

Brilliant typo, for the time of year;)

sorry im dyslexic and it has an annoying habit of landing me trouble on a regular occasion :pac::pac::pac:

Graces7

Maybe my reaction is not "normal"; I have serious medical issues.

BUT you have no way of knowing how a dog will feel pain either; and I base my words on experience and close observation. I heard the yelp of pain when wee dog hit the wire, and yep! It worked. She is now terrified of the fence and runs many hundred yards to find a way in where the fence is higher as she is determined to be with us. So it works, by fear and aversion. Utter negativity.

And yes, we are very cruel to our dogs. When we are out or working indoors, they are with us or in the house or on a safe terrace. Always within eye and ear contact, safe. So appallingly cruel we are! To make sure our dogs are safe from straying, from the road, from being stolen. Are they unhappy? Not! They are happiest when they are with or near us.

But clearly you are stonily determined.

Poor dogs is all we can say,

eilo1

Graces7 wrote: »

Maybe my reaction is not "normal"; I have serious medical issues.

BUT you have no way of knowing how a dog will feel pain either; and I base my words on experience and close observation. I heard the yelp of pain when wee dog hit the wire, and yep! It worked. She is now terrified of the fence and runs many hundred yards to find a way in where the fence is higher as she is determined to be with us. So it works, by fear and aversion. Utter negativity.

And yes, we are very cruel to our dogs. When we are out or working indoors, they are with us or in the house or on a safe terrace. Always within eye and ear contact, safe. So appallingly cruel we are! To make sure our dogs are safe from straying, from the road, from being stolen. Are they unhappy? Not! They are happiest when they are with or near us.

But clearly you are stonily determined.

Poor dogs is all we can say,

What? I mean seriously, just what are you on about?????

and rather worryingly who is "we" ????

Shanao

Here are my issues with the shock collar.

1. They can cause severe mental/behavioural issues with dogs. Believe me, I have seen it. I stayed at a friends house for two weeks a few years ago trying to restore their dog's faith in humanity; she associated the shock with running to the gate to welcome visitors; as far as the dog was concerned, everytime she got a shock, it was due to a person arriving. That dog was deathly afraid of humans. I eventually convinced them to take the collar off and it took me almost a week to even get the dog to come to me, and that was by feeding her every single day and sitting in their garden for hours on end not moving so she could approach me without feeling scared. That is how scared she was of getting a shock. And she was a lab, not a small dog by any means!!

2. I honestly dont know how many times I have seen a loose dog with a shock collar around its neck. They dont work a lot of the time. Two huskies with shock collars escaped and got into my neighbours yard last year while her dog was in heat (Fortunately she was responsible enough to get her bitch injected afterwards so no puppies). If there is something more appealing to the dog on the other side of the fence, they will simply walk over it and nothing will stop them. Not to mention that nothing will make them come back either.

3. And last but not least. What the collar can do if it malfunctions. I saw two dogs with horrible burns on their necks when i was a vet nurse, they can do tremendous damage. For example:



If you get a dog, either fence in an area or build a run. Its much safer, and much kinder to your dog.

eilo1

I definitely agree with your 2nd point.

However Im not sure that because something can be abused it should not be used. To be fair any collar left on too tight can cause severe skin irritation, hair loss, open wounds or strangulation. That is not in itself a reason not to collar your dog.

mikom

Shanao wrote: »

3. And last but not least. What the collar can do if it malfunctions. I saw two dogs with horrible burns on their necks when i was a vet nurse, they can do tremendous damage. For example:

Nursing studies didn't extend enough for you to tell the difference between electrical burns and pressure sores it seems.
Pressure sores were the ones pictured.
Collar too tight rather than a malfunction.

Taceom

almighty1 wrote: »

I have to say I wholeheartedly disagree with all the negativity posted about these fences here. I have one (Golden Retriever) and my next door neighbour (Cocker Spanial) in a rural location.

The fences work great for us, you can adjust shock level to suit size of dog.
And if trained correctly the dog will instinctively know where not to go regardless of the buzzer going off or not.

I think they are less crueler than a run or letting the dog roam outside.

You could be talking about my situation. I too have a Golden Retriever and have been using the Pet Fence since he was very young, and I have to say it works wonderfully for us.

Irishchick

I'm not posting in this thread anymore. No wonder animal welfare is the way it is in this country when people are willing to shock their dogs in the neck rather than train them or build proper fences and runs. It's disgusting.

Or you know how about exercising the dog so its too tired to bother roaming.

People who use negative re enforcement should not be allowed to own an animal.

almighty1

Oh please Irishgirl. The circumstances listed by Shanao are in the minority.

The way you are talking, every single dog that has a shock collar is a bumbling wreck. I know its not ideal but generally has minimal impact on the behaviour of the dog.

Im 100% convinced that a small-medium sized run is crueler than a shock collar.

toadfly

Why can't the dog be inside rather that the only options being a shock collar or a small run? My dogs are inside all the time unless out for a walk or toilet break and my house is still standing.

Graces7

eilo1 wrote: »

What? I mean seriously, just what are you on about?????

and rather worryingly who is "we" ????

It is clear enough...

to the second issue. Worry not! lol!!!

Graces7

Irishchick wrote: »

I'm not posting in this thread anymore. No wonder animal welfare is the way it is in this country when people are willing to shock their dogs in the neck rather than train them or build proper fences and runs. It's disgusting.

Or you know how about exercising the dog so its too tired to bother roaming.

People who use negative re enforcement should not be allowed to own an animal.

Thank you; this says it all.

Shanao

mikom wrote: »

Nursing studies didn't extend enough for you to tell the difference between electrical burns and pressure sores it seems.
Pressure sores were the ones pictured.
Collar too tight rather than a malfunction.

Wow, thanks for insinuating that my entire course of study was a waste of time. And believe me, I have seen the burns from these damned things, when you've spent a day in a vets cleaning out an infected burn that was allowed fester away beneath one of these collars then maybe you'll be able to recognise a burn properly. And perhaps these were only the cases I came across, funny how so many other people came across similiar cases if these are in the minority, no?

mikom

Shanao wrote: »

Wow, thanks for insinuating that my entire course of study was a waste of time. And believe me, I have seen the burns from these damned things, when you've spent a day in a vets cleaning out an infected burn that was allowed fester away beneath one of these collars then maybe you'll be able to recognise a burn properly. And perhaps these were only the cases I came across, funny how so many other people came across similiar cases if these are in the minority, no?

If you don't want to get called up on it then don't go posting pics of pressure sores and pass them off as electrical burns.
In certain cases misdiagnoses can be fatal.

portgirl123

mikom wrote: »

If you don't want to get called up on it then don't go posting pics of pressure sores and pass them off as electrical burns.
In certain cases misdiagnoses can be fatal.

im sorry but they are like no other pressure sores i have ever seen! and even IF they were pressure sores to get in that state is ok? i think not.

Shanao

mikom wrote: »

If you don't want to get called up on it then don't go posting pics of pressure sores and pass them off as electrical burns.
In certain cases misdiagnoses can be fatal.

And as i already said they are burns, I have seen enough of them to know by now

eilo1

Shanao wrote: »

And as i already said they are burns, I have seen enough of them to know by now

Thats what you say but do you have anything to prove it?

Sorry but the word of a person over the internet doesn't hold much weight.
(for example you are going to disregard my opinion below :P)

Im in my final year of a health sciences course and the spread of the inflammation along with no sign of charring makes its far more likely in my opinion, that the injuries where from friction.

Also the chances of a 3-6 volt battery causing this type of injury is extremely unlikely. As I have previously pointed out you need up 9 volts to get a muscle contraction!

To everyone saying just leave your dog inside or just exercise it until its tired, if these collars can facilitate your dog to have a happy life outdoors then I think its only a good thing.

To DBB and the girl who mentioned the animal welfare laws only being based on scientific evidence, what do you think of the RB list :cool:

planetX

Another person here who knows someone whose dog went straight through the radio fence and under the wheels of a truck.

almighty1

TillyGirl wrote: »

Why can't the dog be inside rather that the only options being a shock collar or a small run? My dogs are inside all the time unless out for a walk or toilet break and my house is still standing.

Sorry but a small run or being holed up inside the house the majority of the day doesnt seem like a good compromise. Again IMO both are crueler than a shock collar.

I didnt see the pics posted earlier but I dispute that much (if any) injury could be caused by a 6v battery.

toadfly

Are you seriously saying that I'm being cruel for keeping my dogs indoors where they are safe?

almighty1

TillyGirl wrote: »

Are you seriously saying that I'm being cruel for keeping my dogs indoors where they are safe?

Well its depends on how often you bring your dogs for a walk. Think about it from their standpoint. Their instincts are to move around, play, mark their territory etc, how can they do this being inside 24x7?

Im not saying that dogs should be kept outside all the time but should be somewhere inbetween. They should be allowed outside for long periods of the day (early spring to early winter) with no more than 40% of their time spent inside.

ISDW

almighty1 wrote: »

Well its depends on how often you bring your dogs for a walk. Think about it from their standpoint. Their instincts are to move around, play, mark their territory etc, how can they do this being inside 24x7?

Im not saying that dogs should be kept outside all the time but should be somewhere inbetween. They should be allowed outside for long periods of the day (early spring to early winter) with no more than 40% of their time spent inside.

Have you got any scientific evidence to back this theory up?

portgirl123

well someone had better report me to the ispca then cos my dogs are indoors. go out for a toilet break and their 2 walks aday, which includes of lead and a swim. no swimming this weather though. my dogs hate been outside unless its sunny then they might sunbathe for a hr but any more than that they bark the place down till i let them in

almighty1

ISDW wrote: »

Have you got any scientific evidence to back this theory up?

Which part?

Second paragraph is not a theory, its my opinion.