Building Muscle & Martial arts

will56

Hi all,

I am currently trying to gain some weight and am making steady progress in the gym.
I am now thinking off taking up martial arts again as a club is opening near myself.
Would doing an hour class 2/3 times a week end up being a hindrance to my muscle building goal or is it simply a case of adding extra calories to help make up for it ?

I train Mon, Tues, Thurs Fri and the classes seem to be on a Tues and Fri night so will have a days rest after.

dlr1

too much muscle will prevent you from becoming a good fighter. If you want to be a good fighter, you need to be strong, fast, agile and supple. Its a different kind of muscle that will give you these kind of qualities.

gymsoldier

dlr1 wrote: »

too much muscle will prevent you from becoming a good fighter. If you want to be a good fighter, you need to be strong, fast, agile and supple. Its a different kind of muscle that will give you these kind of qualities.

I just face palmed so hard I almost knocked myself out!

Doug Cartel

What kind of martial arts?

Depending on the style I think it can make a big difference in how you train. I'm not saying that it's a help or a hindrance, just that you'll have to budget it into your training/recovery time.

deadlybuzzman

dlr1 wrote: »

too much muscle will prevent you from becoming a good fighter. If you want to be a good fighter, you need to be strong, fast, agile and supple. Its a different kind of muscle that will give you these kind of qualities.

HANLEY!!!!!........ get in here quick!

Kevin Duffy

will56 wrote: »

Hi all,

I am currently trying to gain some weight and am making steady progress in the gym.
I am now thinking off taking up martial arts again as a club is opening near myself.
Would doing an hour class 2/3 times a week end up being a hindrance to my muscle building goal or is it simply a case of adding extra calories to help make up for it ?

I train Mon, Tues, Thurs Fri and the classes seem to be on a Tues and Fri night so will have a days rest after.

If you're already making progress in thr gym (well done) then adjusting your diet to cope with the extra energy demands does seem like the key to maintaining your progress through the change. Not just extra calories though, without knowing what your diet is like I'd say think through not just the calories, but where they're coming from.
It might also help keep you gym goals on track if, when you add in the two classes, you drop one of the current four gym sessions, so you have 5 training sessions a week - 3 gym, 2 martial arts seems likely to me to give you the best out of both. That said, you know your current state of health and fitness, you may well be able to thrive on 6 days a week.

squod

Must see for people interested in ladies martial arts

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eZCoTTV40qM

Barry.Oglesby

dlr1 wrote: »

too much muscle will prevent you from becoming a good fighter. If you want to be a good fighter, you need to be strong, fast, agile and supple. Its a different kind of muscle that will give you these kind of qualities.

This is an entirely true statement so I don't know what the facepalm was for.

Hanley

deadlybuzzman wrote: »

HANLEY!!!!!........ get in here quick!

Sorry... Bit slow To reply there. Too much muscle.

SanoVitae

Barry.Oglesby wrote: »

This is an entirely true statement so I don't know what the facepalm was for.

Clearly they haven't seen any MMA fights by Mariusz Pudzianowski, 5-time winner of the World's Strongest Man title.

People thought that it would be impossible to submit him because of his strength. Ultimately all his muscle caused him to become exhausted very quickly, making him very easy to beat.

He's absolutely fantastic for the first 15 seconds of any fight though!

Satanta

dlr1 wrote: »

too much muscle will prevent you from becoming a good fighter. If you want to be a good fighter, you need to be strong, fast, agile and supple. Its a different kind of muscle that will give you these kind of qualities.

Barry.Oglesby wrote: »

This is an entirely true statement so I don't know what the facepalm was for.

It's true of course if we take it to extremes. The majority of people training naturally though wont have this problem. I trained Ju Jitsu in my late teens to my mid-late twenties. I was very light in my teens and early twenties and did weights to pack on some muscle and increase strength. It helped me allot with the Ju Jitsu, especially grappling. Therefore it helped me become a better all round fighter. I was never going to be a pro bodybuilder nor a WFC champion, but neither one had too much of a negative effect on the other. The point is that while statement 1 above may be technically true it doesnt apply to the majority of people who train at martial arts. I see this kind of statement thrown around as a reason not to do weights for several sports. For instance I have recently taken up cycling and carrying the extra upper body muscle I have would be considered a hinderence to me getting really good on the bike, and it has been mentioned to me. I dont care. My goals are to keep doing weights and also enjoy keeping fit by cycling because I enjoy doing both. If I wanted to compete at either I'd likely have to drop the other one.

Barry.Oglesby

Satanta wrote: »

It's true of course if we take it to extremes. The majority of people training naturally though wont have this problem. I trained Ju Jitsu in my late teens to my mid-late twenties. I was very light in my teens and early twenties and did weights to pack on some muscle and increase strength. It helped me allot with the Ju Jitsu, especially grappling. Therefore it helped me become a better all round fighter. I was never going to be a pro bodybuilder nor a WFC champion, but neither one had too much of a negative effect on the other. The point is that while statement 1 above may be technically true it doesnt apply to the majority of people who train at martial arts. I see this kind of statement thrown around as a reason not to do weights for several sports. For instance I have recently taken up cycling and carrying the extra upper body muscle I have would be considered a hinderence to me getting really good on the bike, and it has been mentioned to me. I dont care. My goals are to keep doing weights and also enjoy keeping fit by cycling because I enjoy doing both. If I wanted to compete at either I'd likely have to drop the other one.

I'm not being funny here but I've read that a couple of times and I'm not sure if you're agreeing or disagreeing with me.

Any amount of muscle is fine as long as
1) you have the heart and lungs to keep it going for the duration of your fight/match
2) You have enough speed and power for your mass (discipline dependent)

I see a lot of guys with a lot of show and no go. Strength is great, size can be a help, but it has to be the right strength and the right size for what you are trying to achieve.

Most people just trot out the same ****e they've heard. So the boxers trot out the "weights make you slow" argument, and the powerlifters/bodybuilders trot out the "ha ha boxers think weights make you slow when they actually make you fast" ****e. They're both wrong.

El Guapo!

I have to agree with Barry. I didn't think there was a hell of a lot wrong with the original statement, except maybe the wording confused people.

dlr1 wrote: »

too much muscle will prevent you from becoming a good fighter. If you want to be a good fighter, you need to be strong, fast, agile and supple. Its a different kind of muscle that will give you these kind of qualities.

^^^
I think this is a perfectly valid statement. What I think he was trying to get across is that "beach muscles" won't do you much good in mma. You need functional muscle that helps you with martial arts rather than just muscle that looks good but is of little or no use to you in a competetive fighting environment.
I'm far from an expert but that's just my take on it.

King of Kings

Barry.Oglesby wrote: »

ight strength and the right size for what you are trying to achieve.

Most people just trot out the same ****e they've heard. So the boxers trot out the "weights make you slow" argument, and the powerlifters/bodybuilders trot out the "ha ha boxers think weights make you slow when they actually make you fast" ****e. They're both wrong.

what about a boxer who lift weights? what do they say?

anyway I'm only being smart (although i'd love an answer) .
But essentially when I read the "facepalmed" comment above given it's brevity that i can reasonably believe that he is making one side of the argument that you've just claimed is false - yet you defend his post.
I'm confused...


Also I would ask in all your time as a coach have you said to a chap "hey there, ditch that muscle building it's slowing you down"....?
I would suggest that it is actually pretty hard to build up that much muscle while properly training at a martial art.
If a chap does weights 3 times a week and then 3 MMA (for example) classes a week - I'd think he wasn't getting the necessary recovery to make massive muscle gains that would ruin his ability at MMA.

I be worried more about fella coming down to train the MMA and thems being in a jock with doms.

Clive

will56 wrote: »

Hi all,

I am currently trying to gain some weight and am making steady progress in the gym.
I am now thinking off taking up martial arts again as a club is opening near myself.
Would doing an hour class 2/3 times a week end up being a hindrance to my muscle building goal or is it simply a case of adding extra calories to help make up for it ?

I train Mon, Tues, Thurs Fri and the classes seem to be on a Tues and Fri night so will have a days rest after.

OP, depending on the style of martial arts and the particular club the classes could be fairly undemanding physically, or quite intense. So head along, see if you enjoy it, then adjust your diet and recovery accordingly and you'll be fine.

Obviously if you get back into martial arts in a big way, you'll probably end up adjusting your time in the gym to support your new goals, but until then enjoy them both for what they are.

Satanta

Barry.Oglesby wrote: »

I'm not being funny here but I've read that a couple of times and I'm not sure if you're agreeing or disagreeing with me.

Any amount of muscle is fine as long as
1) you have the heart and lungs to keep it going for the duration of your fight/match
2) You have enough speed and power for your mass (discipline dependent)

I see a lot of guys with a lot of show and no go. Strength is great, size can be a help, but it has to be the right strength and the right size for what you are trying to achieve.

I am agreeing with you that yes too much muscle will be a hinderance. But lets also keep things in perspective. In the context of this thread the OP is doing some weights and wants to train marital arts a couple of times a week as well. I dont see any problem with that. Chances are that he wont be able to add enough muscle to greatly affect his performance. Then comes the statement that too much muscle wil prevent you from beign a good fighter. Now the way that read to me was that he was saying "you dont want to be doing weights if you want to train martial arts".

I am aware that you are a competitive fighter and you have taken your fighting to a level above I ever trained at. At my level I was able to incorporate a couple of weight sessions into my week and keep up the Ju Jitsu... and still be able to go out on the matt for 2.5 hours at a time and give it plenty. I was also trying to make the point that my weight training helped me as I was better able to grapple when we went to the floor. I dont think I ever tapped out because the other guy was fitter than me or my additional muscle was too much for my cardio (which it wasnt).

Most people just trot out the same ****e they've heard. So the boxers trot out the "weights make you slow" argument, and the powerlifters/bodybuilders trot out the "ha ha boxers think weights make you slow when they actually make you fast" ****e. They're both wrong.

If I am interpreting you correctly here this was actually the point I was trying to make, although I tend to waffle a bit. For the OP and for the majority of people there is a happy medium where they can get bigger and stronger in the gym and train for their chosen martial art too. If they want to excell at the martial art (again dicipline dependant) they may need to change their weights regimen.

I too hear allot from people who say they "dont do weights becaues it will make you slow". A rather stupid example: There are a grop of lads that play 5 a side soccer twice a week in my workplace. A couple of them have said to me in the past that they wouldnt bother training in the gym becase it would make them slow. Seriously... what difference would that make? You play 5 a side soccer for fun and you think the weights will do what? Take you off the pinnicle of 5 a side office football? It's probably more like they have no interest in weight training.

Barry.Oglesby

King of Kings wrote: »

what about a boxer who lift weights? what do they say?

They say "I box and lift weights".

But essentially when I read the "facepalmed" comment above given it's brevity that i can reasonably believe that he is making one side of the argument that you've just claimed is false - yet you defend his post.
I'm confused...

His statement was true. he didn't say "muscle slows you down" he said "too much muscle will prevent you from being a good fighter". It's true. The word functional is overused but it's an important term. If you're building muscle for muscle's sake, you're just adding on mass that your heart and lungs have to power. There's a reason that guys who add mass to to up weight classes rarely succeed.

Also I would ask in all your time as a coach have you said to a chap "hey there, ditch that muscle building it's slowing you down"....?

In so many words? No. But I have told people to stop doing certain strength programmes or to alter their training to be more in keeping with their primary goals. The aforementioned Hestley being one of them. I've had plenty of guys who have been all show, no go for want of a better term.

I would suggest that it is actually pretty hard to build up that much muscle while properly training at a martial art.

Well it depends doesn't it? How intense are the sessions?

I be worried more about fella coming down to train the MMA and thems being in a jock with doms.

Also a major factor.

Barry.Oglesby

Satanta wrote: »

I am agreeing with you that yes too much muscle will be a hinderance.

Well that's what the dude said!

I am aware that you are a competitive fighter and you have taken your fighting to a level above I ever trained at. At my level I was able to incorporate a couple of weight sessions into my week and keep up the Ju Jitsu... and still be able to go out on the matt for 2.5 hours at a time and give it plenty. I was also trying to make the point that my weight training helped me as I was better able to grapple when we went to the floor. I dont think I ever tapped out because the other guy was fitter than me or my additional muscle was too much for my cardio (which it wasnt).

Well that's the level about 95% of people training BJJ/MMA/Martial arts are at: a few classes a week plus some fitness of their own. I wasn't arguing the toss on that I just took issue with the blanket "face palm" which just feeds into misinformation. Your level of training and experience is far more representative of the majority.

Mellor

SanoVitae wrote:

e:
Clearly they haven't seen any MMA fights by Mariusz Pudzianowski, 5-time winner of the World's Strongest Man title.

People thought that it would be impossible to submit him because of his strength. Ultimately all his muscle caused him to become exhausted very quickly, making him very easy to beat.

He's absolutely fantastic for the first 15 seconds of any fight though!

I don't think anyone thought that tbh. He was never given a chance due to cardio, and regardless of strength I'd expect most HW BJJs to sub him. i've seen him lose by sub due to punches, but I mean the likes of RNC, or arm-triangle

will56

Thanks for the replies.
Its Taekwondo I'm taking up, used to train in it before so I know I'm in for a lot of lower body work and some intense training sessions (fingers crossed).
I guess I'll give it a shot and see over the next few weeks if the scales stop moving, or my progress stalls.
.

SanoVitae

Mellor wrote: »

I don't think anyone thought that tbh. He was never given a chance due to cardio, and regardless of strength I'd expect most HW BJJs to sub him. i've seen him lose by sub due to punches, but I mean the likes of RNC, or arm-triangle

A LOT of people thought that actually. Not necessarily educated MMA fans, but rather Pudz fanboys who thought he'd somehow be able to escape submissions holds like armbars through sheer strength alone.

Mellor

Anything I read about the fights were writing him off. Most were surprised he beat those hacks in his first two fights.
I'm sure there were WSM fans who followed him over to MMA or former WSM fans etc. And you're right they prob thought he was going to go in and fling guys around

dartstothesea

What disciplines do people think are most and least forgiving to someone relatively muscle-bound? Not necessarily a bodybuilder or anything, a powerlifter maybe. Or strongman like Pudz.

Mellor

dartstothesea wrote: »

What disciplines do people think are most and least forgiving to someone relatively muscle-bound? Not necessarily a bodybuilder or anything, a powerlifter maybe. Or strongman like Pudz.

Do you mean if they were to train in that discipline or fight against.

I suppose the best option for them would be using there mass in wrestling, literally take down and GnP.
Least forgiving, I dunno. Kickboxing, Karate, Muay Thai all provide their obstacles.

Barry.Oglesby

will56 wrote: »

Thanks for the replies.
Its Taekwondo I'm taking up, used to train in it before so I know I'm in for a lot of lower body work and some intense training sessions (fingers crossed).
I guess I'll give it a shot and see over the next few weeks if the scales stop moving, or my progress stalls.
.

well TKD can be quite aerobically intensive, but a couple of hours a week won't make a massive difference to your weight gain if you manage it correctly. Whereabouts are you doing it? It's now... 7 years since I last did TKD. Sometimes still miss it!