December Budget

fliball123

Hi All,

Has anyone got any idea where Enda and lads are going to get the projected 3.6 billion needed for the december budget?

Raskolnikov

The projected tax take is €200 million behind target for the year. Therefore, I would be expecting that the adjustment will have to be closer to €4 billion now.

Already in the Pipeline – Cuts in Budget

* It has already been indicated from the Bin Charges Tax Credit will be gone from 2012 (per last government, but I don’t expect the current government to change that!). This will mean you will pay up to €80 more a year in tax.
* The Rent Tax Credit is being phased out, and for a married couple the amount allowed will be down from €640 this year to €480 next year. Of course, first time renters receive no rent relief tax credit if they only started renting since december 2010.
* A new property tax at a starting price of €100 will come into effect from January. This is due to remain in place for 2 years until a full property tax based on site valuations come into play in 2014.
* The maximum amount of tax relief allowed on pension contributions will drop from 41% to 34% in 2012, and by another 7% in each of the following 2 years to bring the maximum amount of relief down to 20%.

RichardAnd

I heard something about further carbon taxes a few months ago on the radio. I can't provide a source I'm afraid but it seems likely.

fliball123

Hi guys can we try to put figures aswell as pointed it out it may be 4billion just trying to gauge how much lub I need?

n97 mini

Don't mean to OT, but how will the site valuation tax work in the case where the home owner doesn't own the site, and the site may not be clearly de-marked.

For example, where a father has let his son build a one-off on the farm?

fliball123

n97 mini wrote: »

Don't mean to OT, but how will the site valuation tax work in the case where the home owner doesn't own the site, and the site may not be clearly de-marked.

For example, where a father has let his son build a one-off on the farm?

I think it may be taxed per household or dwelling...as in if there are 100 flats in one building then it is 100 per flat ..same here 2 dwellings on the one site is still 2 dwellings to 200 quid (100 each) I may be wrong on this

Gumbo

n97 mini wrote: »

Don't mean to OT, but how will the site valuation tax work in the case where the home owner doesn't own the site, and the site may not be clearly de-marked.

For example, where a father has let his son build a one-off on the farm?

In order to get that planning permission, a site needed to be outlined which corresponds to that new house, so even though the new site is within the old site boundary, the new site will be treated separate. thats the way i judge it.

Surely there has to be separate ownership for land registry and title deeds, also im sure no solicitor or bank would sign off on the mortgae for person a building/buying a home built on person b's land, but then again they way private sectory banks and solicitors screwed many many people during the boom, i would not be surprised.

n97 mini

kceire wrote: »

In order to get that planning permission, a site needed to be outlined which corresponds to that new house, so even though the new site is within the old site boundary, the new site will be treated separate. thats the way i judge it.

Is there any way to fudge this? i.e. get onto the Land Reg and declare the size of the site has been reduced and the rest has gone back to being farm.

kceire wrote: »

Surely there has to be separate ownership for land registry and title deeds,

No, check online planning with various LA's. There are lots of declarations "I give my son permission to build on my land" etc.

kceire wrote: »

private sectory

This has nothing to do with who is to blame.

Gumbo

n97 mini wrote: »

Is there any way to fudge this? i.e. get onto the Land Reg and declare the size of the site has been reduced and the rest has gone back to being farm.

Wouldnt that be illegal? you would then have implecations arrising from home insurance etc as the land is now classes as farming land and not residential etc etc

also your planning permission may be null and void as the private open space for one would not adhere to the conditions set out on the final grant of planning permission by the council

Then you'd be back on here in 2 months time complaining the those idiots in the PS (Land Registry) were not doing their job properly, so im afraid you cant have it both ways.

n97 mini wrote: »

No, check online planning with various LA's. There are lots of declarations "I give my son permission to build on my land" etc.

that is simply for planning permission only, when the house and title is registered with Land Registery the land then becomes part of the house and owner of the house takes title of it (or the bank if theres a mortgage). maybe a legal eagle might shed some more light on that.

n97 mini wrote: »

This has nothing to do with who is to blame.

agh but it does indeed.

doc_17

A further increase in carbon tax is being mooted but surely this should be avoided. €1.45 for a litre of diesel is enough. It might make some more people "go green" .

doc_17

I'd say the pupil teacher ratio will get another hit. this will result in around 1000 teachers less maybe? saving of about 50million there (if you exclude the SW cost of this).

doc_17

There was also speculation that Supervision and Substitution would be axed. This costs around €200m per year but again most teachers only recieve 38% of this figure due to taxes and levies.

But the Teacher Unions have said that this would be a pay cut under the terms of the CPA so who knows.

Atilathehun

fliball123 wrote: »

Hi All,

Has anyone got any idea where Enda and lads are going to get the projected 3.6 billion needed for the december budget?

They raided the private sector pension funds last year, with a "temporary", levy. I think it collects €400m a year.

So ............... chances are they will raid deposit money this year. Spend it or lose it. If we spend it they collect the VAT. If we keep it on deposit, they will steal a slice of it:mad:

doc_17

Yeah DIRT has gone up from 25% to 30% in the past few years ( I think).

There will also be massive cuts to capital spending as part of the 2.3 billion in cuts.

So does the private sector pension levy (€400mil) count for the 1.6 billion in tax hikes or is it 1.6 billion in addition to it?

Nody

doc_17 wrote: »

A further increase in carbon tax is being mooted but surely this should be avoided. €1.45 for a litre of diesel is enough. It might make some more people "go green" .

What would ever give you that idea? Petrol, tobacco and booze are the three easiest taxes to raise (and they tend to go up pretty regularly as well, esp. in short fall times). Add in some tax credits cuts for good measure and some new fees and you're going to be looking pretty closely at what I expect the final budget to look like.

Trampas

They need to stop taking money out of peoples pockets so they will go out and spend the money which is better for the economy.

Cuts are required in the bills but try and keep money in peoples pockets.

Head The Wall

And we all know that the teachers primary concern is the kids

Nody

Trampas wrote: »

They need to stop taking money out of peoples pockets so they will go out and spend the money which is better for the economy.

Cuts are required in the bills but try and keep money in peoples pockets.

Between the cost for social wellfare and and the PS that's by definition impossible. Cut in either is out of people's pocket and the screaming if either is touched/mentioned/considered... That's before we're starting to talk about pensions, benefits, grants etc. which all will cause the "Concerned group for X" to stream out of the woodworks asking you how you'd feel if you were X in a extremly made up and silly situation.

In short; the easiest target is yet again the middle class who'll be squeesed. I could go on ranting about the whys and the hows but the simple reality is that with 50% not paying tax, with a certain deal in place regarding public pay and with the consistent voting in of corrupt politicans there is simply not going be any other way because there is no public push (i.e. vote) to change status quo of doing politics.

baddebt

probably see increases in carbon tax , USC Levy , booze , cigs , etc ,
tax credit cut's ,
introduction in property tax (call it any name you want....thats ultimately what it will be )

really social welfare and PS Budgets' should be sorted first before any other taxes/cuts are introduced ...........................but as we know the gov haven't the balls to take such measures and labour will continue to force kenny and co to hide behind the croke park BS

doc_17

Head The Wall wrote: »

And we all know that the teachers primary concern is the kids

Always easy to get a cheap insult in isn't it? Thanks for your contribution.

fliball123

Look lads less of the petty squabbling...I mean most of you know where I stand with regard to PS pay but I didnt want to turn it into another ps vs private..

I was looking for figures

So we have so far

Carbon tax - How much more will that raise
Tax credits cut - How much will that raise
Smokes/Alcohol tax increase - How much will that raise
Public services reform - bigger class sizes, closing A&Es - How much will that raise.
Bin tax credits cut - How much will that raise?
Property tax?? - How much will that raise and how will it be done..Surely a person does not own a property until the final payment is made?

Has anyone got any kind of rough maths on these as whats being mooted on here will probably bring maybe half or a little over ..

Nody

You're asking for numbers that in general are not available though; you could raise the carbon tax by 200% but most things are likely to be a few cents here and a few percent there. The key thing lies in were those cents and percent are though and this is not public knowledge and everything else becomes speculation.

fliball123

Nody wrote: »

You're asking for numbers that in general are not available though; you could raise the carbon tax by 200% but most things are likely to be a few cents here and a few percent there. The key thing lies in were those cents and percent are though and this is not public knowledge and everything else becomes speculation.

true but I all looking for realistic amounts..I mean carbon tax, smokes and alcohol will not raise too much as they are already over taxed.

average_runner

Raised taxes, and my partner and I be better off quitting work for a year or two until they sort things out. And we bring in over 100,000 a year.
Give us quality time with the kids!

fliball123

average_runner wrote: »

Raised taxes, and my partner and I be better off quitting work for a year or two until they sort things out. And we bring in over 100,000 a year.
Give us quality time with the kids!

I am in a simular position as yourself..what the gov do not take into acount are bills, mortgages, creche fees etc...its a rediculous predicament to be in that you earn so much and it goes out leaving you with little or nothing

average_runner

Only thing to stop myslef doing it is pride, boredom and guilt in taking the money even though i paid tax for last 20 years!

Chucky the tree

fliball123 wrote: »

I am in a simular position as yourself..what the gov do not take into acount are bills, mortgages, creche fees etc...its a rediculous predicament to be in that you earn so much and it goes out leaving you with little or nothing

It's not that they don't take it into account, it's just they have very few options. They've said they won't be any significant changes to income tax or the tax bands. Trying to cut €4bn or so is not going to be easy.

fliball123

Chucky the tree wrote: »

It's not that they don't take it into account, it's just they have very few options. They've said they won't be any significant changes to income tax or the tax bands. Trying to cut €4bn or so is not going to be easy.

Try and yet things such as Public sector pay/pensions and perks are off the table..Bertie ahearn still gets his phone bills paid and other such areas of spend that should be tackled but are sacred

Chucky the tree

fliball123 wrote: »

Try and yet things such as Public sector pay/pensions and perks are off the table..Bertie ahearn still gets his phone bills paid and other such areas of spend that should be tackled but are sacred

Public sector pay won't be hit though, as much as it should be.

fliball123

Chucky the tree wrote: »

Public sector pay won't be hit though, as much as it should be.

thats the point I was making that the gov have choice but continue to hammer tax payer

Blowfish

Looks like we can get a basic idea as they've finally released their four year plan.

Chucky the tree

fliball123 wrote: »

thats the point I was making that the gov have choice but continue to hammer tax payer

To be fair the public sector are still tax payers, and it's why the government will increase carbon taxes, VAT and all the other indirect taxes so everyone will be hit across the board whehter you are a private or public sector worker.If they cut public sector pay then they can look forward to preparing for a new Genral election in April again, not really much of a choice.

Dannyboy83

Vat now going up to 23%, according to BreakingNews.ie
http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/tax-revenues-can-be-increased-without-raising-income-tax-noonan-527127.html

Low Tax economy my hole!

Idbatterim

I assume the poor pensioners with all their dependants and big mortgages living on bread and water under candle light will be left untouched again?

Head The Wall

doc_17 wrote: »

Always easy to get a cheap insult in isn't it? Thanks for your contribution.

Firstly our teachers are not cheap and secondly it's the truth not an insult. if you see it as an insult tough. The majority of teachers in this country couldn't give a rats arse about the kids.

They're great lads to hide behind the union for their own purpose when they could use their power to achieve something for the kids

paconnors

You can thank all those green party wasters for the introduction of the carbon tax. In which means an easy rape on our pockets in the budgets.

Sudsy86

average_runner wrote: »

Raised taxes, and my partner and I be better off quitting work for a year or two until they sort things out. And we bring in over 100,000 a year.
Give us quality time with the kids!

I dont mean to offend if this comes across as offensive but I find it hard to feel sorry for you...Myself and herself are both working and we struggle to hit half what you are earning after taxes...We have a mortage, we had to cut back to 1 car...

I know our situations are probably totally different but if you find it hard and are struggling on 100k a year could you imagine if they told you you where going to be cut down to what we earn?

Im currently relying on my Christmas bonus to pay for 2 fillings and a cleaning for my significant half which the dentist adv would cost €250...

ei.sdraob

Dannyboy83 wrote: »

Vat now going up to 23%, according to BreakingNews.ie
http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/tax-revenues-can-be-increased-without-raising-income-tax-noonan-527127.html

Low Tax economy my hole!

Argh for ****s sake

Squall19

average_runner wrote: »

Raised taxes, and my partner and I be better off quitting work for a year or two until they sort things out. And we bring in over 100,000 a year.
Give us quality time with the kids!

Your on over 100k a year and your complaining :rolleyes:

After all taxes taken out, you are still taking home around 75k net a year between the two of you.That is serious money.

You are either useless with your money or just greedy.

If your struggling on 100k gross, then you only have yourself to blame.

WalterMitty

Squall19 wrote: »

Your on over 100k a year and your complaining :rolleyes:

After all taxes taken out, you are still taking home around 75k net a year between the two of you.That is serious money.

You are either useless with your money or just greedy.

If your struggling on 100k gross, then you only have yourself to blame.

not if they have a massive mortgage,childcare for several children, food/clothing/medical for several children etc, pay full value of your own pension, pay medical insurance, run two cars etc etc.

WalterMitty

They are also hitting capital investment which according to economist Gurdiev is already below replacement levels meaning infrastructure is being run down and not fully repalced/maintained which will hit us in years to come.

Squall19

They should up dirt tax to over 30%

Alot of greedy people about with huge savings.

Squall19

WalterMitty wrote: »

not if they have a massive mortgage,childcare for several children, food/clothing/medical for several children etc, pay full value of your own pension, pay medical insurance, run two cars etc etc.

They are living the dream life then.

Who wouldn't want a few kids, few cars, huge house, private health insurance, great pension plan, top food and clothes?

_Kaiser_

n97 mini wrote: »

Is there any way to fudge this?

kceire wrote: »

Wouldnt that be illegal? .......... so im afraid you cant have it both ways.

O/T perhaps (and not directly aimed at n97 mini but s/he's provided the example) but FFS!!! No wonder this country is in the mess it's in what with the attitude above - bloody charge hasn't even been brought in/specced yet and already someone is looking for a way around it! :mad:

Don't get me wrong, what has happened in this country in the past few years (insofar as the average working person being saddled with virtually all the responsibility and debts of others - both private, public and individual) is a disgrace, but I am so sick to death of this "cute hoorism" grab-what-you-can-and-f&ck-everyone-else attitude to everything! Is it any wonder that the overpayments to top civil servants/semi-state execs and other daily outrages continue while the rest of us get shafted

We (as a nation) shouldn't be let behind the controls of a shopping trolley, never mind a country! :rolleyes: :mad:

Chucky the tree

WalterMitty wrote: »

not if they have a massive mortgage,childcare for several children, food/clothing/medical for several children etc, pay full value of your own pension, pay medical insurance, run two cars etc etc.

If they have a massive mortgage and only barely make over 100k then that definitly can be filed under "being useless with money".

WalterMitty

Squall19 wrote: »

They should up dirt tax to over 30%

Alot of greedy people about with huge savings.

theres a hundred billion in deposit accounts of irish residents. Spread amongst the population that is only 25k per person, vast vast majority of people with these savings are ordinary average people saviing for houses, or a rainy day or their kids future, there isnt a huge number of greedy millionaires living off interest on their savings , most millionaires have their assets in a wide variety of investments.

carm

average_runner wrote: »

Only thing to stop myslef doing it is pride, boredom and guilt in taking the money even though i paid tax for last 20 years!

Oh please. Spare us. Be entirely grateful you have an income. Having worked for nearly 2 decades, after being made redundant, my entitlement for the first half of this year was e24 per week. That's what I was left to live on, not after paying bills. So cut the "oh I'd be better off not working" routine.

Try live on 24 euros a week in this country and come back and talk about guilt, pride and boredom.

To be honest, I'm not sure you weren't trolling or taking the pss.

WalterMitty

Squall19 wrote: »

They are living the dream life then.

Who wouldn't want a few kids, few cars, huge house, private health insurance, great pension plan, top food and clothes?

thats just an average life , working long hours, not seeing those kids, stuck in massive negative equity, average food, essential health insurance as no medical card and sh1te public system, a pension that is a fraction of value of a public sector one etc etc.

msg11

VAT up to 23% are these boys off there heads or what ?

Are they trying to kill off what's left of the retail sector, VAT is under performing at the moment , so some crook in the Department of Finance says to raise it to 23%.

If that carbon tax is to go up, I am going back to my bike they will be down money on Insurance , Tax, Petrol, Products people buy related to cars.

What's vat at in the UK is it still 19% , if so that's a 5% difference now between the south and the north.

Kristopherus

msg11 wrote: »

VAT up to 23% are these boys off there heads or what ?

Are they trying to kill off what's left of the retail sector, VAT is under performing at the moment , so some crook in the Department of Finance says to raise it to 23%.

If that carbon tax is to go up, I am going back to my bike they will be down money on Insurance , Tax, Petrol, Products people buy related to cars.

What's vat at in the UK is it still 19% , if so that's a 5% difference now between the south and the north.

Vat in the UK & North went up to 20% this year.

WalterMitty

msg11 wrote: »

VAT up to 23% are these boys off there heads or what ?

Are they trying to kill off what's left of the retail sector, VAT is under performing at the moment , so some crook in the Department of Finance says to raise it to 23%.

If that carbon tax is to go up, I am going back to my bike they will be down money on Insurance , Tax, Petrol, Products people buy related to cars.

What's vat at in the UK is it still 19% , if so that's a 5% difference now between the south and the north.

VAT hits the poorest the hardest too , a regressive tax. So much for Labour looking after poor.