Could you survive?

ajhalpin

Don't know if this has come up before but, if you had to take to the hills, (say to hide out from an invasion of ticked off european bureaucrats), where would you go and is it possible to survive off the land in Ireland? I mean there isn't exactly an abundance of wild food apart from the odd stray deer or a few blackberrys in autumn. Or am I completely wrong and is there a whole hidden world of gourmet delights waiting to be discovered in our forests and fells?

Hibrion

A well stocked bug out bag would be a nice starting point

Tabnabs

If you had to BO to a rural location and live off the land, you'd have to be very lucky to find a good place. In any major emergency in Ireland IMHO you have to look at either bugging in or going the closest port and/or airport to evacuate.

kildare.17hmr

that would be true for the majority of people alrite. I have a few spots within walking distance of where i live, when i say walking distance i mean a few days hike with resources along the way like good cover, water and food. Most people will do as you said and while the airports and ferry ports shut down and everyone is left around them there will be a few others like myself going the opposite way!

krissovo

I have done a few reccy's and have a few sites that I will attempt to get to if the worst happens. My primary plan is to try and stay in my home as its fairly rural. I have plenty of bunnies, rats and fish to keep my family going.

The sites I have looked at and even spent weekends trying to live off the land would keep my family going for a few weeks I think. After this time we would need to think about nutrition.

You can live quite well off the land in Ireland. There is plenty of food out there if you know how to get it. Water is plentiful and reasonably clean, wildlife is plentiful and year round

kildare.17hmr

krissovo wrote: »

I have done a few reccy's and have a few sites that I will attempt to get to if the worst happens. My primary plan is to try and stay in my home as its fairly rural. I have plenty of bunnies, rats and fish to keep my family going.

The sites I have looked at and even spent weekends trying to live off the land would keep my family going for a few weeks I think. After this time we would need to think about nutrition.

You can live quite well off the land in Ireland. There is plenty of food out there if you know how to get it. Water is plentiful and reasonably clean, wildlife is plentiful and year round

I have done the same but unfortunatly i live in a town but only a few miles down the road is rural and i would very rarely meet people ut when im hunting. 20 min walk from my house is another world that few people visit, rich with rabbits, squirels, foxes, all kinds of birds and even deer all of which would be on the menu for me.

krissovo

When we go camping out my family often joke that we eat better when wild camping than when at home.

Breakfast is often fresh trout and dinner is normally a rabbit stew with a fish starter

Tabnabs

kildare.17hmr wrote: »

Most people will do as you said and while the airports and ferry ports shut down and everyone is left around them there will be a few others like myself going the opposite way!

Where did I mention ferry ports?

If I can't get airlifted, my boat will take me to safety abroad. It has heat, shelter, power, water and off grid living.

Living off the land is a fine idea in a country as large as the US or Canada. But even UK preppers admit that the population vs land size of these two islands makes it difficult to survive for anything more than an individual. In normal times your stomping ground (and we all have them) is wide and empty. In a post SHTF time you'll be competing with all sorts of people on the road.

Grizzly 45

There is a whole load of wild food available out there in Ireland that people walk past every day and ignore.But id you were to put a European here ,they will eat all and sundry.Simply because they recognise it as food and we dont.
However, as said heading for the hills isnt going to be a great option as everyone else will be doing it as well.Unless you have a pre cached supply and a very good cammoflaged retreat somwhere,running off isnt going to get you much.You can just live so long in the wild from a backpack too.It will depend on the threat as well which will decide your evacuation plans or staying put.If we were being invaded say.I doubt very much that heading for airports oe ferry ports would be a smart move.:pac:

kildare.17hmr

Tabnabs wrote: »

Where did I mention ferry ports?

If I can't get airlifted, my boat will take me to safety abroad. It has heat, shelter, power, water and off grid living.

Didnt notice you didnt say ferry:D Would love to have my own boat, maybe some day!

Living off the land is a fine idea in a country as large as the US or Canada. But even UK preppers admit that the population vs land size of these two islands makes it difficult to survive for anything more than an individual. In normal times your stomping ground (and we all have them) is wide and empty. In a post SHTF time you'll be competing with all sorts of people on the road.

your probably right but ill take my chances, i certainly wouldnt be rushing off to dublin airport with the rest of leinster i think initially that would be very dangerous

ajhalpin

I could see how you might make it through the spring, summer, or autumn, but winter would be a different kettle of fish altogether. In fact there would be no fish for your kettle, except maybe the odd pike. If you dont have a rifle then I guess youre pretty screwed. I used to snare rabbits as a kid but never had much luck. Actually, it was my mate who would check the snares while I got the fire going. Its funny how my snares never seemed to have anything in them but his invariably did. I guess without a gun bugging in is the only option.

kildare.17hmr

have shotgun and rifle so Thats covered

slowburner

ajhalpin wrote: »

Don't know if this has come up before but, if you had to take to the hills, (say to hide out from an invasion of ticked off european bureaucrats), where would you go and is it possible to survive off the land in Ireland? I mean there isn't exactly an abundance of wild food apart from the odd stray deer or a few blackberrys in autumn. Or am I completely wrong and is there a whole hidden world of gourmet delights waiting to be discovered in our forests and fells?

Don't think I'd take to the hills. You wouldn't even get blackberries (the fruit:D) up there. You might get frauchans but they wouldn't sustain you and a very short season. F'all sustaining plant life up there unless you're a grouse. The calories expended in getting a deer in such open country wouldn't make any sense, sheep might be a better choice. There might be the odd trout in the streams and loughs but you'd be so fricking cold that you wouldn't want to go anywhere near water. Food is probably going to be the last thing you think about up there as you suffer howling winds and mega chill factors.
In my humble opinion, anywhere above the 900m contour is best left to the deer and the ravens. See yah, I'm going to the farmlands.

Hal Emmerich

Could someone eat leaves?

slowburner

Kinda depends on what leaves!

Hal Emmerich

tree leaves....:o

slowburner

I don't know for sure, but I think the nutritional value of most leaves is very low.
Oaks are full of tannic acid - that would make you feel pretty bad I'd imagine.
Beech - dunno.
Ash - dunno.
Birch might be ok - the sap is supposed to have anti-cancer properties. Hazel - well if you can eat the nuts you can probably eat the leaves.
Willow - the source of salycilic acid (sp) (aspirin), too much of this could lead to internal bleeding.
Alder - dunno.
As to conifers, I think you can make a tea out of the needles of scot's pine which is supposed to be high in vitamin C.
Spruce (the forestry tree) dunno.
Big no-no is Yew, highly toxic.
I'm sure I am missing out loads of trees here, hopefully someone with more knowledge of this area will drop in

Hibrion

Hal Emmerich wrote: »

Could someone eat leaves?

Salad springs to mind

But seriously, there are a few plant leaves that are edible.

slowburner

For sure there are buckets of leaves you can eat in the summer. Emm, I think that's where most of our veggies come from. But what about the winter, are there any edible leaves, on trees or otherwise?

Doc Ruby

slowburner wrote: »

I don't know for sure, but I think the nutritional value of most leaves is very low.
Oaks are full of tannic acid - that would make you feel pretty bad I'd imagine.
Beech - dunno.
Ash - dunno.
Birch might be ok - the sap is supposed to have anti-cancer properties. Hazel - well if you can eat the nuts you can probably eat the leaves.
Willow - the source of salycilic acid (sp) (aspirin), too much of this could lead to internal bleeding.
Alder - dunno.
As to conifers, I think you can make a tea out of the needles of scot's pine which is supposed to be high in vitamin C.
Spruce (the forestry tree) dunno.
Big no-no is Yew, highly toxic.
I'm sure I am missing out loads of trees here, hopefully someone with more knowledge of this area will drop in

Pine is pretty good, you can brew a high vitamin C tea from the needles or just eat them as-is. The inner bark is edible in some types of pine, and makes for a good nutritious meal. You can also use the resin as glue or a fire starter.

Rabbits likewise are easy to catch, just lay out snares along their runs. You can eat birds of all sorts too, although its mostly the breast muscles that are worth the effort. One thing that people often overlook in this country, surprisingly, is the sea shore. There is a veritable bonanza of delicious animals such as shellfish, shrimp, crab and fish along almost every stretch of Irish coastline. If you can find a boat or something that floats, you're home free.

Its more than possible to survive in the Irish countryside I would say.

Hibrion

+1 for surviving in a sea side location.

Limpets, razor fish, and mussels can all be gathered with little effort; ok you'll need a snorkle for the mussels

Shore fishing is easy enough and if you're willing to eat a dogfish you definitely won't starve.

Crabs and lobsters are also easy to catch in rock pols with a bit of patience.

A fish trap in a small river is also a good way to catch fish in a survival situation.

If push comes to shove seals can also be eaten. But this would be an extreme situation.

slowburner

Doc Ruby wrote: »

Pine is pretty good, you can brew a high vitamin C tea from the needles or just eat them as-is. The inner bark is edible in some types of pine, and makes for a good nutritious meal. You can also use the resin as glue or a fire starter.

Rabbits likewise are easy to catch, just lay out snares along their runs. You can eat birds of all sorts too, although its mostly the breast muscles that are worth the effort. One thing that people often overlook in this country, surprisingly, is the sea shore. There is a veritable bonanza of delicious animals such as shellfish, shrimp, crab and fish along almost every stretch of Irish coastline. If you can find a boat or something that floats, you're home free.

Its more than possible to survive in the Irish countryside I would say.

Countryside - yes
Sea shore - definitely
Mountains - don't think so above a certain height at certain times of year

fodda

You and your neighbours would have to join up to defend what you have as hungry townies would overun you taking any and everything.

slowburner

fodda wrote: »

You and your neighbours would have to join up to defend what you have as hungry townies would overun you taking any and everything.

Yes indeed.

Builderfromhell

If it was possible to survive in hills and mountains there would be derelict cottages left from people who used to live there a hundred years ago.

If it is possible to easily live off the land then why did so many die in the famine?

I would stay in my rural dwelling, work with he local community and share our resources.

Might be no harm to practice living frugally for a while to get some experience.

Peoples survival strategies would differ widely depending on their situation. I couldn't see myself lasting long if I were in a sub-urban housing estate. But rural people help each other and have many survival skills as it is.

slowburner

Builderfromhell wrote: »

If it was possible to survive in hills and mountains there would be derelict cottages left from people who used to live there a hundred years ago.

If it is possible to easily live off the land then why did so many die in the famine?

I would stay in my rural dwelling, work with he local community and share our resources.

Might be no harm to practice living frugally for a while to get some experience.

Peoples survival strategies would differ widely depending on their situation. I couldn't see myself lasting long if I were in a sub-urban housing estate. But rural people help each other and have many survival skills as it is.

People died in the famine for a number of reasons, many political, some to do with diet.
In a survivalist situation you would presume there is a freedom to range far and wide - that luxury was not available to the folk who suffered in the great famine.

krissovo

Builderfromhell wrote: »

If it was possible to survive in hills and mountains there would be derelict cottages left from people who used to live there a hundred years ago.

If it is possible to easily live off the land then why did so many die in the famine?

The land can only give up so much food.

In a well prepared site that can farm arable and hold livestock you need about 3 to 5 acres with fertilizers and insecticide for a family to live off the land and another 4 to 6 acres for growing your fuel.

In a survival situation that same family would need around 30 to 50 acres for the land to produce enough food. This would be meat and edible wild plants.

In the hills you are looking at 300 acres of land if not more to produce enough food and that would be a mostly meat diet but will sustain you until things calm down.

At the coast you can reduce those numbers slightly with the additional food available.

If everyone in Ireland discovered bush craft then the land would not sustain the population in a survival situation its quite simple. However by practicing bush craft I increase my chances and I know that my family have a good chance.

Doc Ruby

krissovo wrote: »

In a well prepared site that can farm arable and hold livestock you need about 3 to 5 acres with fertilizers and insecticide for a family to live off the land and another 4 to 6 acres for growing your fuel.

In a survival situation that same family would need around 30 to 50 acres for the land to produce enough food. This would be meat and edible wild plants.

An acre of spuds will supply enough food for a family of four, to the best of my knowledge. Thats why the potato blight was so devastating, you had these small cropholders living almost completely off potatoes - also the reason the population was booming. It was supplemented with milk or butter, maybe meat once a week, but you don't need much land if you're prepared to accept a lower quality of life.

Builderfromhell wrote: »

If it was possible to survive in hills and mountains there would be derelict cottages left from people who used to live there a hundred years ago.

If it is possible to easily live off the land then why did so many die in the famine?

If the knowledge isn't there its just not there. The English had to bring in a man from Scotland during the 19th century to teach Claddagh fishermen how to smoke and preserve their catch. Anyone who knew that trick in previous generations had either left the country or been killed off. Some families still remember parts of what was once common knowledge, but even then its only vague and dim at best.

slowburner

Ireland: population 4,582,269 (2011 census)
Ireland: area 20,047,572 acres
Area/population = 4.38 acres per person

or looking at it another way;
If we were to presume that 60% of the total area of Ireland is productive (probably an overestimate?) this would give a total acreage available of 12,028,543

If a family of four needs around 11 acres for food and fuel (using Krissovo's figures which might be an underestimate?) the land could support 1,093,503 family units or a total population of 4,374,015

So using these optimistic figures, the island is already overpopulated by 208,254.

Discuss.

Doc Ruby

slowburner wrote: »

If a family of four needs around 11 acres for food and fuel (using Krissovo's figures which might be an underestimate?) the land could support 1,093,503 family units or a total population of 4,374,015

It was over 8 million back in the 1840s, and that was with much less effective farming methods, preservation or industrial infrastructure. Plus the country was exporting enormous quantities of food at the same time, some called it the breadbasket of the British empire.

slowburner

From here http://www.mapspictures.com/ireland/history/ireland_population.htm



The population of Ireland 1700-2000 numbers in millions