New Secondary School Greystones

pixbyjohn

Co Wicklow VEC is currently inviting parents/guardians to register their support should they wish to see Co. Wicklow VEC become the patron body/management authority of the proposed new post-primary school for Greystones.

http://newschoolgreystones.ie/

GAN

I see the website says that: "Religious education for those who want it will be facilitated within the school day, as set out by the Department of Education and Skills".

Anyone know how that works in practical terms for children who don't want religious education? I went to a VEC and when religious class was on, I had to sit in the assembly area and read a book -- have things changed since then?

Cheeky Chops

Aren't Educate Together applying to start a post-primary as well?

GAN

Yes, I'm pretty sure they have applied to run this school as well. I would like to see Educate Together getting it, it would be good to have more choice in terms of school patrons I reckon

pixbyjohn

GAN wrote: »

I see the website says that: "Religious education for those who want it will be facilitated within the school day, as set out by the Department of Education and Skills".

Anyone know how that works in practical terms for children who don't want religious education? I went to a VEC and when religious class was on, I had to sit in the assembly area and read a book -- have things changed since then?

Contact the VEC, they will give you any info you need. At least the VEC are giving people a chance to support their bid for patronage. I am not aware of other organisations having a website for people to register their interest.

GAN

Educate Together have one too, www.wicklow2school.ie

Annasopra

Cheeky Chops wrote: »

Aren't Educate Together applying to start a post-primary as well?

There is a new secondary school approved for Greystones. My understanding is that the VEC, Educate Together and the Church of Ireland (I could be wrong on the church) are all applying to be the patron


http://newschoolgreystones.ie/
http://www.wicklow2school.ie/school.html

Cheeky Chops

Thanks for clarifying.

(I heard the CoI had a meeting regarding this recently. I don't know any details I am afraid.)

Jimjay

anyone know where the new school will be built?

Annasopra

Jimjay wrote: »

anyone know where the new school will be built?

opposite lidl

Son of Jack

First let me say that I believe that parents should have a choice in where their children are educated

and I am interested in any developments in this area, but I wonder about the following.

At this time St. David's is the only secondary school in Greystones. It is co-educational and has a Catholic ethos.

Having said that currently it provides education for children of all backgrounds, all faiths and none.

A substantial percentage of children at second level attend schools outside Greystones (I have heard this is as much as 40 per cent but am open to correction)


Children leave Greystones each morning to attend school outside the town because their parents have a preference for

- private schools

- single sex schools

- education through Irish

- reasons of 'faith' or preferring a non or multi-denominational approach

There is also the option of the relatively new, most modern and well run community school in Kilcoole (VEC).

Parents are entitled to do this.


Will an Educate Together or VEC school in Greystones provide what parents who send their children to private schools aspire to?

Schools under the patronage mentioned wouldn't cater for those who wish their child to be educated in a single sex school

or through Irish.

Only the COI school would provide a Church of Ireland ethos!


So I can't see that a new secondary in Greystones will mean that a significant number of that percentage leaving will change.

Instead two secondaries will be competing for

in or around the same percentage as attend secondary school in Greystones now.


An Educate Together school doesn't have a catchment area so students can come (on that first come first served basis) from commuting distance.

Dalkey ET, Bray and Wicklow have larger primary school. I thought that they'd have an ET second level school sooner, as a result.


How many more would a Greystones second level ET serve beyond the children who already attend their excellent and thoroughly modern primary school?


Putting my cards on the table, I am concerned at the effect that establishing another second level school would have on the existing secondary; St. David's.

St. David's on the up and up and the numbers going to St.David's has been increasing year by year since the dynamic new principal took over there six years ago.

One hundred and twenty five students started in first year this year. This contrasts with approximately sixty leaving sixth year this year.

With this increase in local support St.David's has potential for further growth and development in terms of what it can offer.


Schools are funded by capitation grants i.e. an amount per pupil in the school. In the past when numbers dropped in St.David's, funds shrank also.

As numbers grow St.David's can develop further.

Capitation grants pay for heating, light, cleaning and maintenance as well as teacher requisites.

When numbers drop the need for heating, light etc., doesn't drop in proportion.

As any householder knows all these utilities are getting more expensive,

while the capitation grant remains relatively static and is likely to remain so in these current economic conditions.

In many schools parents are fund raising to cover the cost of basics.

I ask this question;
Do two secondary schools not divide the available school going population in such a way that

there would be two schools competing for

- students,

- capitation grants

- and then ever decreasing resources in these recessionary times?

Interesting times

Huntthe

GAN wrote: »

I went to a VEC and when religious class was on, I had to sit in the assembly area and read a book -- have things changed since then?

Why ?

Cheeky Chops

Son of Jack

There are nowhere near enough places in David's for kids in the primary schools in Greystones. They were queuing out the door this morning to get places for 2014. Another secondary school is very much needed.

The classes have increased in most primary schools to more than one class. There is simply not the capacity at David's. I do not understand your thinking. We need a place for our kids to go to school locally.

CC

The Guide

This is not a new problem - in the 90's parents had to camp out overnight to get a place in secondary schools in Bray and in St David's there was tiered system starting with if you already had someone in the school. It seemed to calm down a bit then for a few years, but I would say in the next 10 years, major problems will arise and 1 more secondary school may not be enough.

Cheeky Chops

The Guide wrote: »

This is not a new problem - in the 90's parents had to camp out overnight to get a place in secondary schools in Bray and in St David's there was tiered system starting with if you already had someone in the school. It seemed to calm down a bit then for a few years, but I would say in the next 10 years, major problems will arise and 1 more secondary school may not be enough.

I hope they smoked loads of weed and made babies.

The Guide

God ye! maybe it was just a ploy - you might be right and thats why we need all the new schools now.

Fiachra2

Son of Jack wrote: »

there would be two schools competing for

- students,

- capitation grants

- and then ever decreasing resources in these recessionary times?

Interesting times

Goood point. An what you can be absolutly sure of is that no-one has looked at the situation in that light and has actually analysed whats needed in Greystones.
In additionThere are schools in Bray crying out for state support for facilities including one which has been waiting for 10 years for funding for a badly needed new school building. The state's response is.......lets build a new school 6 miles away!

loyatemu

there are 15,000 people in the Greystones/Delgany area - it can support 2 schools. There are smaller towns down the country with 4 or 5 secondary schools.

Cheeky Chops

AND David's charge a 170 euro admin charge (non - refundable). Disgrace!

Fiachra2

loyatemu wrote: »

there are 15,000 people in the Greystones/Delgany area - it can support 2 schools. There are smaller towns down the country with 4 or 5 secondary schools.

Thats exactly the point that Son of Jack made. Greystones is already supporting 4/5 schools. Its just that they arent in Greystones. My concern is that the kind of school needed has not been researched and we could end up with the wrong one.

Another interesting point. I received a leaflet about the school through my letterbox. On closer reading it is actually a document looking for support for the VEC's bid to be the patron. With all the cuts to education is this the best way to spend taxpayers money?

Cheeky Chops

Fiachra2 wrote: »

Thats exactly the point that Son of Jack made. Greystones is already supporting 4/5 schools. Its just that they arent in Greystones. My concern is that the kind of school needed has not been researched and we could end up with the wrong one.

Another interesting point. I received a leaflet about the school through my letterbox. On closer reading it is actually a document looking for support for the VEC's bid to be the patron. With all the cuts to education is this the best way to spend taxpayers money?

With all due respect I do not understand your point. We have too many kids and not enough local schools. Bray is not local.

pixbyjohn

I think it is a good idea that the different committees are looking to be the patrons of this new school, but please get behind whoever you wish for the patronage to be granted to rather than going on about it here on Boards.

North Wicklow Educate Together 2nd Level

A lot of research has been done into whether or not Greystones can support 2 second level schools.

We are lucky here to have a fantastic local secondary school, but it cannot support the numbers that are coming down the line. By 2015 there will be 170 more children leaving 6th class in Greystones than can be supported by St. David's. At the moment 60% of students leave Greystones for secondary school but this is becoming less feasible as parents can longer pay private tuition fees, or something as simple as travel costs.

St. David's is great, but what about those in Greystones who want to stay in the locality but don't want a Catholic ethos? How much better to have two brilliant schools in Greystones so that people can have a choice about where they want to send their children? And, for us, an important question is what of the 60 odd ET students who will be leaving the primary school each year from 2017 on? We can't all go to Newpark

As pixbyjohn said it is important that parents support the school they want in the area. At this stage it is just 'expressions of interest', enrolment hasn't started. Don't sign up everywhere, think about what kind of YOU'D like to see in Greystones and see which patron suits you the best.

Son of Jack

Thank you for your informative and positive post

Imagine 60 per cent of secondary school students attend school outside Greystones! I knew there were a lot ... but that is a real eye opener.

I suppose one has to consider what the various options offer

what is being provided by the existing school

and what is needed in the area.

So as has been said on this thread it is important for those with young children to make that 'expression of interest'

and as you say 'see which patron suits you best'.

North Wicklow Educate Together 2nd Level

I'm not sure if we're allowed to put this here so please take it down if not, mods.

We have a survey that looks for people's opinions on what is important at 2nd level.

Please take a minute to fill it out - it is vital that parents voices are heard in something as important as this.
http://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/viewform?formkey=dFZyQWx4VkhCQlNQQ3VyVWs4MW1HYVE6MQ

dudmis

Can't open the link - is any one else having trouble?

North Wicklow Educate Together 2nd Level wrote: »

Please take a minute to fill it out - it is vital that parents voices are heard in something as important as this.
http://https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/viewform?formkey=dFZyQWx4VkhCQlNQQ3VyVWs4MW1HYVE6MQ

North Wicklow Educate Together 2nd Level

Oops, sorry - fixed now!

homer911

I know a number of children from Greystones who travel to East Glendalough school - The school recently said that if you havent got your name on the list to start in the next 11 years, then dont bother!

Greystones/Delgany/Charlesland can easily support a new seconday school

Cheeky Chops

Put the name down for East Glendalough in 2004 for 2014. No chance of a place as confirmed by the school.

loyatemu

this is one of the reasons the CofI are interested in the patronage - St Patrick's in Greystones is a feeder school for East Glendalough but the latter is pretty much full.

Greystones has a relatively high non-Catholic population & most of these kids leave the town to go to fee-paying schools. Can't see Ruairi Quinn granting any more religious patronages though...

Matt Le Tissue

As far as I know St Patrick's is not a feeder school for east Glendalough.

Cheeky Chops

Matt Le Tissue wrote: »

As far as I know St Patrick's is not a feeder school for east Glendalough.

That is correct.

loyatemu

that's me told

sinkadinka

Anyone know when a decision will be made as to who will be patron for the new secondary school?

dudmis

AFAIK the end date for submissions is end of Feb but I don't know how long it will before there is a final decision.

Nancenet70

I just wanted to add to this discussion here that if you do want to support ET
you can still express your interest at www.wicklow2school.ie

re: the leaflet
i agree - what a waste of taxpayer's money
and more people that I know that received it either thought - they GOT the school based on their wording - or if you look at the wording - notice, they've changed their tune to say a lot of the same things as the ET campaign

i believe in a choice - i just wish it were a fair fight

Cheeky Chops

C of I website for those interested:

http://greystonessecondaryschool.com/

North Wicklow Educate Together 2nd Level

The application is going in at the end of Feb and we're hoping for a decision by early summer.

recedite

GAN wrote: »

I went to a VEC and when religious class was on, I had to sit in the assembly area and read a book -- have things changed since then?

I had a look at the submissions of various interest groups to the government in regard to this, they answer that question themselves;

from VEC Schools;
"provide ‘faith formation’ for children of all beliefs within the curriculum in belief groups – with students from families with no particular religious affiliation being provided with a module on moral development when other students are participating in denominational religious education"

as opposed to;

from Educate Together Schools;
"Our experience is that it is impossible to provide equality to all children in the school programme, unless the faith formation element of the programme is an opt-in facility that takes place outside the compulsory school day.
We remain very concerned that the current configuration of the Community National Schools (AKA the VEC schools) still ignores this experience and requires the compulsory registration, labelling and separation of children in schools according to the religious identity of their families. The families that seek out Educate Together schools find such an approach unacceptable...


‘Faith formation’ being a euphemism for "religious indoctrination", which a parent is entitled to either agree with, or disagree with, in regard to their own child.

homer911 wrote: »

I know a number of children from Greystones who travel to East Glendalough school - The school recently said that if you havent got your name on the list to start in the next 11 years, then dont bother!

However that is not the case when the child is C of I baptised, church going, and living in the catchment area; in that case there is no problem getting into the school. For those families where one parent is C of I and one is not, or those where both are protestant but not C of I, or various other permutations etc.. there is a formal and complicated gradient of preference for admission to the school.

Of course, if St Davids was oversubscribed, they would also be entitled to practice religious discrimination in the selection process.

Both VEC and Educate Together have a stated policy of no religious discrimination.

In the end, local parents of children currently in 4th class primary school or younger will decide the patron (by submitting "expressions of interest" to one or other of the three competing patrons) and that is how it should be.

Annasopra

recedite wrote: »

In the end, local parents of children currently in 4th class primary school or younger will decide the patron (by submitting "expressions of interest" to one or other of the three competing patrons) and that is how it should be.

I thought the minister made the final decision?

Cheeky Chops

recedite wrote: »

I had a look at the submissions of various interest groups to the government in regard to this, they answer that question themselves;

from VEC Schools;
"provide ‘faith formation’ for children of all beliefs within the curriculum in belief groups – with students from families with no particular religious affiliation being provided with a module on moral development when other students are participating in denominational religious education"

as opposed to;

from Educate Together Schools;
"Our experience is that it is impossible to provide equality to all children in the school programme, unless the faith formation element of the programme is an opt-in facility that takes place outside the compulsory school day.
We remain very concerned that the current configuration of the Community National Schools (AKA the VEC schools) still ignores this experience and requires the compulsory registration, labelling and separation of children in schools according to the religious identity of their families. The families that seek out Educate Together schools find such an approach unacceptable...


‘Faith formation’ being a euphemism for "religious indoctrination", which a parent is entitled to either agree with, or disagree with, in regard to their own child.




However that is not the case when the child is C of I baptised, church going, and living in the catchment area; in that case there is no problem getting into the school. For those families where one parent is C of I and one is not, or those where both are protestant but not C of I, or various other permutations etc.. there is a formal and complicated gradient of preference for admission to the school.

Of course, if St Davids was oversubscribed, they would also be entitled to practice religious discrimination in the selection process.

Both VEC and Educate Together have a stated policy of no religious discrimination.

In the end, local parents of children currently in 4th class primary school or younger will decide the patron (by submitting "expressions of interest" to one or other of the three competing patrons) and that is how it should be.

I really don't understand this post. I'm sorry to the poster but you are not making sense to me.

recedite

mango salsa wrote: »

I thought the minister made the final decision?

Yes, but the decision will be entirely based on the local demand.

Annasopra

recedite wrote: »

Yes, but the decision will be entirely based on the local demand.

Is it?

conlof

My daughter will be going to secondary in 2020 (wow thats a hard date to get my head around). I have every intention of sending her to one of the local option. Tbh I am not really worried about which of the three gets the decision. I am sure, through local involvement, the school will be excellent and well supported. I have heard Charlesland described as the largest housing estate in Ireland, not sure if thats true but what I really don't understand is why the school is not put closer to charlesland. Perhaps a little selfish of me?

dubsgirl

conlof wrote: »

My daughter will be going to secondary in 2020 (wow thats a hard date to get my head around). I have every intention of sending her to one of the local option. Tbh I am not really worried about which of the three gets the decision. I am sure, through local involvement, the school will be excellent and well supported. I have heard Charlesland described as the largest housing estate in Ireland, not sure if thats true but what I really don't understand is why the school is not put closer to charlesland. Perhaps a little selfish of me?

Its the largest private estate (with management company) I think...

North Wicklow Educate Together 2nd Level

mango salsa wrote: »

Is it?

Whilst the Expressions of Interest from parents prove that the school is viable (we started our Expresions of interest list before it had been confirmed that a new second level school would be built in Greystones), the main criterion that the Minister will be using is:

'The main criterion for deciding patronage in an area where there is already at least one secondary school will be the following:

- Whether the establishment of the proposed school model will result in greater diversity and plurality of second-level school patronage and provision in the area (having regard to neighbouring areas) where there is demand for such diversity and plurality. In this context individual patron bodies from the one faith group will be regarded as representing the same school patronage type for assessing plurality.' taken from the Department of Education and Skills 'New arrangement for patronage of new schools' circular (Second Level section)

The patrons must also confirm various things, for example that they are willing to operate within DES policy parameters, that they are willing to accept and open special need facilities, confirmation that they are willing to enter children from the area for whom the Department has identified the need for a new school.

Matt Le Tissue

On Tuesday 24th January 2012 there is a meeting to be held in St Patrick's NS, to hear about the type of secondary school that the Church of Ireland proposes for Greystones.

Learn about the ethos of the school, details of how it will be managed and how it will respond to the academic, cultural, personal and spiritual needs of your children. There will also be an opportunity to raise any questions that you may have about the school or what Church of Ireland patronage would involve. The meeting will be addressed by the Principal of East Glendalough School, as well as a representative of the Church of Ireland and some local parents who are supporting the bid.

For further information visit www.greystonessecondaryschool.com or www.facebook.com/greystonessecondaryschool.

When: Tuesday 24th January 2012 at 8.00pm
Where: The School Hall, St, Patrick's NS

Dr.Silly

Matt Le Tissue wrote: »

When: Tuesday 24th January 2012 at 8.00pm
Where: The School Hall, St, Patrick's NS

Can someone kindly give directions to this please ?
Many Thanks

Matt Le Tissue

St Patricks NS is opposite St Patricks church, beside the scout hall and behind the fire station.

Dr.Silly

Matt Le Tissue wrote: »

St Patricks NS is opposite St Patricks church, beside the scout hall and behind the fire station.

Super, thanks Matt

Lisa 333

Any one know when and where you can put your childs name down for the new secondary school in greystones ................ Please!!!!!!!!!!