Limerick Bike Scheme

adaminho

http://jrnl.ie/269519



Do you think this will work in Limerick or could the money be put to better use?

Any more trolling or bickering will result in a ban, see post #313 for more details.

Iang87

i think **** off bikes. Already holdin up traffic as it is

RonMexico

How exactly does it work? I'm sure the scum will find a way to ruin it.

Kess73

adaminho wrote: »

http://jrnl.ie/269519



Do you think this will work in Limerick or could the money be put to better use?

I think Limerick city is far too small for such a scheme to be honest, same goes for Waterford city plus I reckon the bikes will be targets for the scum population that seem to love roaming the city centre.

Cork might just about keep such a project going thanks to it's population and busy city centre (in comparison to Limerick city) but I reckon the figures quoted for Cork city in the feasability study are a bit on the optimistic side.

Galway it could actually work well in during the late spring, summer, and early Autumn thanks to places like Salthill, and the walks out near Oranmore being so close to the city centre.

PJTierney

Limerick's too small for this in my opinion, as everything in the city centre is within walking distance, and there's frequent bus services to the outer regions, like Dooradoyle, Caherdavin and Castletroy.

That and I (unfortunately) expect them to be vandalised a lot.

gaf1983

I think it could work. While Limerick City centre is far smaller than Dublin city centre, it can still take about 15 minutes to walk from one end of the city centre to the other (i.e. The Locke Bar to the O'Connell Monument, to give one example) and where the bikes come into their own is in shortening the time taken to do these short journeys.

@adaminho - regarding the funding, the Dublin Bike scheme is funded by advertising and its users' subscriptions, so this is one model that might be used in other cities.

TestTransmission

Iang87 wrote: »

i think **** off bikes. Already holdin up traffic as it is

How do bikes hold up traffic?

Iang87

TestTransmission wrote: »

How do bikes hold up traffic?

try drive up patrick street with parking at both sides and two lanes of moving traffic and meeting a bike. Nowhere to go so you gotta slow down till mr bike decides where he is going.

Unless of course we keep the bikes and say **** off cars, I'm not too bothered, i will be intrigued to see the bike buses though

TestTransmission

I drive it every day, never found it a issue tbh

Iang87

TestTransmission wrote: »

I drive it every day, never found it a issue tbh

i found it an issue earlier today. along with most parts around the outskirts of the city. Not everyday now but a lot

langdang

Iang87 wrote: »

try drive up patrick street with parking at both sides and two lanes of moving traffic and meeting a bike. Nowhere to go so you gotta slow down till mr bike decides where he is going.

It's their culture.

savagecabbages

Iang87 wrote: »

try drive up patrick street with parking at both sides and two lanes of moving traffic and meeting a bike. Nowhere to go so you gotta slow down till mr bike decides where he is going.

Unless of course we keep the bikes and say **** off cars, I'm not too bothered, i will be intrigued to see the bike buses though

Don't think I've ever had a clean run of traffic lights on O'Connell street, you'll have to stop dead anyway at least twice for traffic lights so the bike on Patrick Street isn't really holding anyone else up. Unless you're in a rush to get to the back of the traffic light queue...

Not that I've ever been delayed by a bike on any street in Limerick.


As for the bike scheme, there might be a future in it if they are located in good spots around the city, but the pesimist in me sees this happening:

Grumpypants

I think this would be great if they put a depot in Corbally we will have a alternative to driving as we have a ridiculously bad bus service.

source

Iang87 wrote: »

try drive up patrick street with parking at both sides and two lanes of moving traffic and meeting a bike. Nowhere to go so you gotta slow down till mr bike decides where he is going.

Isn't that more the fault of those parking illegally on the left side of Patrick Street?? If they weren't parking there, then the cyclist would be able to stay to the far left. If they cyclist could stay to the far left then there wouldn't be a problem.

So your beef is with the drivers not the cyclist.

As for the bikes coming to Limerick, I don't think there's really any great need for it in Limerick. If they do it right and have drop off zones in UL, LIT, Mary I, The Crescent Shopping Centre, and the Art College, etc etc etc, it may have some hope of being a success and a useful addition to the city. If however it's confined to the city centre then there's no point.

I would also echo the comments about vandalism, I can see the repair bill being quite high in this city.

seamus

Kess73 wrote: »

I think Limerick city is far too small for such a scheme to be honest, same goes for Waterford city plus I reckon the bikes will be targets for the scum population that seem to love roaming the city centre.

Tbh, exactly the same argument were made about Dublin. The general consensus was that nobody would use them because the streets are too dangerous & you can get everywhere by walking anyway, and within a month all of the bikes would either be in the Liffey or have crap kicked out of them.
It's the most used scheme in world and none of the bikes have been stolen (one was, but was then later returned), and a number of the stations are located in the worst parts of the city.

What the bikes do is turn a 20 minute walk into a five minute cycle. Doesn't sound like much, but when you're going in or out of work or only have an hour for your lunch, being able to save those 15 minutes is fantastic. I think though the most important thing about them is that they're someone else's problem. You pick up the bike and drop it off, you don't have to worry about locking it in a secure place or what to do with it if you fancy a few beers after work, and so on.

Having been in a Limerick a few times I think they could work great in that city. It's nice and flat and large enough that there's a benefit to being able to cycle instead of walk.

Kess73

seamus wrote: »

Tbh, exactly the same argument were made about Dublin. The general consensus was that nobody would use them because the streets are too dangerous & you can get everywhere by walking anyway, and within a month all of the bikes would either be in the Liffey or have crap kicked out of them.
It's the most used scheme in world and none of the bikes have been stolen (one was, but was then later returned), and a number of the stations are located in the worst parts of the city.

What the bikes do is turn a 20 minute walk into a five minute cycle. Doesn't sound like much, but when you're going in or out of work or only have an hour for your lunch, being able to save those 15 minutes is fantastic. I think though the most important thing about them is that they're someone else's problem. You pick up the bike and drop it off, you don't have to worry about locking it in a secure place or what to do with it if you fancy a few beers after work, and so on.

Having been in a Limerick a few times I think they could work great in that city. It's nice and flat and large enough that there's a benefit to being able to cycle instead of walk.

Dublin has the sheer size and a massive population compared to Limerick though. It can afford to have a much lower % of it's population interested in the scheme and still make a profit

two wheels good

seamus wrote: »

What the bikes do is turn a 20 minute walk into a five minute cycle. Doesn't sound like much, but when you're going in or out of work or only have an hour for your lunch, being able to save those 15 minutes is fantastic.

Exactly! Plus the benefit of reducing the number of car journeys; less congestion, less pollution, less imported oil.

Thanks for the info OP. I see Cork is also among the schemes being considered. I might try to attend the meeting on Monday

seamus

Kess73 wrote: »

Dublin has the sheer size and a massive population compared to Limerick though. It can afford to have a much lower % of it's population interested in the scheme and still make a profit

The area covered by the Dublin scheme isn't much bigger than the main Limerick city as far as I can see.

Economies of scale apply anyway, you wouldn't have the same number of bikes and stations as Dublin. I don't know if the Dublin one does make a profit, it's run by a 3rd party company in exchange for advertising space, so the net cost/profit to the city is zero.

I'm curious though as to why you seem to be so set against it? Assuming that it operates to the Dublin one and costs the city nothing, would you oppose the scheme being rolled out in Limerick?

Kess73

two wheels good wrote: »

Exactly! Plus the benefit of reducing the number of car journeys; less congestion, less pollution, less imported oil.

Thanks for the info OP. I see Cork is also among the schemes being considered. I might try to attend the meeting on Monday

The benefits of such a scheme in a busy city are exactly as you have said, but does anyone really think that Limerick city centre is a busy city centre?

It does not suffer from massive traffic congestion most of the time, it does not have crowded footpaths pretty much all year round, and it does not have the footfall that Cork or Galway have in the city centre during the daytime.

I like the idea of bikes being used more often and when I lived in Southern Germany I loved renting bikes and loved the bus and rail systems there, but I just don't think that Limerick would be a good fit for the scheme. Would love to be wrong on that, but if the feasibility results reckon Cork could have a bit over 2,000 using the scheme on a regular basis, does anyone think that Limerick would have even half that number using the bikes every week. Some of the footfall figures for many of the bigger name shops in Limerick are scarily low, which is a pretty good indicator as to how many people don't use the city centre compared to how many use the Crescent shopping centre and those that go out of Limerick. For Limerick city to be hitting say 1,100 regular users a week then that would require a fairly high % of city goers to use the service compared to the population and compared to the small numbers tnat use the city centre. Also Limerick city has a much higher % of it's population unemployed than Cork or Galway, and has had a higher % of businesses close over the last three years, which makes for less disposable income and less reasons for people to be in the centre to use the bikes in the first place.

And another issue is the scum issue. Whether people living here in Limerick like it or not, there is a more visible scum presence in the city centre than there is in Galway or Cork. Not saying those places are problem free, but I think Limerick has a less policed scum population in the city centre.


The one way I think it could work well is if it was tied in with the pedestrianisation of O'Connell street once it is done, and if someone has the cop on to try and get new retail business signed up to that project for when it finishes, rather than the usual bluff about how massive company X and massive company Y are just about to open in Limerick.

Amazotheamazing

I think it can work, the Dublin bikes have security features to stop them being stolen. I don't know how they prevent vandalism but I assume no one thinks Dublin (where the scheme is a massive success) is vandal free?

Limerick is a city suited to cycling, as much as any Irish city (apart from Dublin), wider roads than Galway, less hills than Cork.

Obviously it depends who's in charge of maintenance? I'm not certain I'd trust the council with it.

Where's best to put the bikes though? Out by Thomond, Corbally, UL as well as city centre I assume?

Kess73

seamus wrote: »

The area covered by the Dublin scheme isn't much bigger than the main Limerick city as far as I can see.

Economies of scale apply anyway, you wouldn't have the same number of bikes and stations as Dublin. I don't know if the Dublin one does make a profit, it's run by a 3rd party company in exchange for advertising space, so the net cost/profit to the city is zero.

I'm curious though as to why you seem to be so set against it? Assuming that it operates to the Dublin one and costs the city nothing, would you oppose the scheme being rolled out in Limerick?

Where did I say I was set against it? At no point did I say I was against the idea, what I am saying is that I don't think it would work in Limerick, and I gave some of the reasons as to whyt I think it would not work. Big difference between a person being set against something and a person who thinks it would not work for various reasons.

I love the idea of Limerick having better facilities, but I am too used to hearing about lots of new facilities, projects and ventures and either not seeing them happen, or seeing half assed versions of them come about.

Kess73

Amazotheamazing wrote: »

I think it can work, the Dublin bikes have security features to stop them being stolen. I don't know how they prevent vandalism but I assume no one thinks Dublin (where the scheme is a massive success) is vandal free?

Limerick is a city suited to cycling, as much as any Irish city (apart from Dublin), wider roads than Galway, less hills than Cork.

Obviously it depends who's in charge of maintenance? I'm not certain I'd trust the council with it.


Where's best to put the bikes though? Out by Thomond, Corbally, UL as well as city centre I assume?

I think the bits in bold are very valid questions to ask.

Amazotheamazing

Kess73 wrote: »

The benefits of such a scheme in a busy city are exactly as you have said, but does anyone really think that Limerick city centre is a busy city centre?

It does not suffer from massive traffic congestion most of the time, it does not have crowded footpaths pretty much all year round, and it does not have the footfall that Cork or Galway have in the city centre during the daytime.

It's not necessarily about footfall in the city centre. Say you wanted to go from Dolans to Nancies, or from your accountants in the Crescent down to the tax office, it's not a very long walk, but it's long enough to be inconvienent. In that respect I think the scheme could be great.

adaminho

Let me just state that I've no objection to this. Im merely asking if it would work in Limerick. A city like Dublin has a large population living in the city who might have to work further out. Limerick is the opposite. Cities like Dublin also have a large police presence to keep an eye on the bikes.

Having in lived in Hamburg where cycling is the main form of transport I can see the benefit of such schemes. But would it not be more cost efective to place secure bike parking in the city for private bikes? Plenty people have bikes that they would bring to town if you knew it was going to be safe.

Finally motorists, cyclists and pedestrians need to cop on to the rules of the road in relation to each other. Cars need to realise that a cyclist is entitled to the same space as a car on the road. Cyclists need to realise that this means the rules of the road apply to you when it comes to footpaths and lights. Pedestrians need to watch out for cyclists when you walk out onto the road without looking.

mikemac

Kess73 wrote: »

I reckon the bikes will be targets for the scum population that seem to love roaming the city centre.

Same thing was said about Dublin, the bikes will be trashed and will end up in the canals. I was one of the naysayers

But happy to be proven wrong, was a big success and the same can happen for Limerick.

Colbert Station is very central, a bike stand there would be very popular to get people into town

Amazotheamazing

adaminho wrote: »

Having in lived in Hamburg where cycling is the main form of transport I can see the benefit of such schemes. But would it not be more cost efective to place secure bike parking in the city for private bikes? Plenty people have bikes that they would bring to town if you knew it was going to be safe.

I don't think it should be either/or. We should look into this scheme and it should be safe to have a bike in town.

Kess73

Amazotheamazing wrote: »

It's not necessarily about footfall in the city centre. Say you wanted to go from Dolans to Nancies, or from your accountants in the Crescent down to the tax office, it's not a very long walk, but it's long enough to be inconvienent. In that respect I think the scheme could be great.

Yeah but you cannot just get a bike from anywhere, there would be set pick up/drop off locations. So all journeys would be dictated by such. Unless the idea would be to have drop off/pick up locations pretty much everywhere you would still have to walk to the nearest pick up point to get a bike and then cycle to the bearest drop off point and then walk to your destination.


Dublin has lots of locations where the nearby facilities draw in big numbers of people, and as such the bike stations are placed near those locations, I just don't think Limerick has enough such locations that would have a large number of people wanting to use enough of the routes on a daily basis, which could leave Limerick getting a small number of bikle stations which in turn limits where you can get/leave the bike.

Inner Dublin has something like 40 to 50 bike stations to cope with demand and the number of bikes needed. Limerick would only get a fraction of that, and if Cork is looking to have something like 20 stations and 200 odd bikes, then Limerick will probably be half that or less again.

I just think that the city would need more attractions and facilities to make the bike idea one that could be implemented properly and one that would be a genuine success.

Mind you if getting the bikes in puts a stop to the "Limerick Luas"* idea that the council were spoofing about for a while then it is another positive.














*Yes I know a monorail would be better and that Beer Baron could run it.

The Snipe

I can picture hammered idiotic students (not all students, but some!) And scumbags will end up pissing all over them on a night out..

Kess73

XiledSniper wrote: »

I can picture hammered idiotic students (not all students, but some!) And scumbags will end up pissing all over them on a night out..

Bit low talking about Arthropod Superleader like that. :pac:;)

Poxyshamrock

A lot of the people who use it in Dublin appear to be non-national professionals/students.


I don't think Limerick has many of these.

gloobag

XiledSniper wrote: »

I can picture hammered idiotic students (not all students, but some!) And scumbags will end up pissing all over them on a night out..

In Dublin, the bikes are taken away at night by the company that runs the scheme, so no risk of that happening.

My girlfriend lives in Dublin and she swears by the bikes. I think it would be great if this came to Limerick. Depending on where they place the stations, it might get some people back into the city centre.