Sean Connolly -Why Dublin

Sprocket77

Question for the marathon runners out there, from reading this forum over the last few weeks it's clear that Dublin wouldn't be considered an easy course by any stretch.

Why then would Sean Connolly try to get the Olympic A standard here, rather than at one of the easier courses? It was obvious that he was very disappointed crossing the finishing line, despite winning the national championships.

Running marathons, it's not as if he can just target another race in a few weeks, he'll probably only have one more shot in the Spring.

Pisco Sour

Sprocket77 wrote: »

Question for the marathon runners out there, from reading this forum over the last few weeks it's clear that Dublin wouldn't be considered an easy course by any stretch.

Why then would Sean Connolly try to get the Olympic A standard here, rather than at one of the easier courses? It was obvious that he was very disappointed crossing the finishing line, despite winning the national championships.

Running marathons, it's not as if he can just target another race in a few weeks, he'll probably only have one more shot in the Spring.

Being on no funding is not easy. Maybe Dublin was the only one he could afford to do as it doesnt involve flights, accomodation etc

ecoli

Mission marathon website:

Benefits for Participating Athletes:

Consideration and support for Altitude Training Camp / Warm Weather Training Camp.
Assistance towards suitable international competition / Specialised coaching assistance
Opportunity to train and work with like- minded athletes in a competitive environment.
Re-assurance that both AAI and Dublin Marathon are trying to help athletes excel.
Graded Financial Incentives for athletes who achieve Sub 2.25 (Men) and Sub 2.45 (Women) times in Dublin Marathon in addition to any place money earned.
Gear / shoes from adidas

For athletes who have no funding and have focused solely on running over the last 18 month they dont always have the luxury of picking and choosing what races they do the whole time.He had hoped that his pacer would last longer than 4 miles as well as better conditions and he thought it might still be possible to hit the standard despite the course

Already aiming for Spring marathon and is confident enough he can nail it

woodchopper

Ah now, you would think that we were talking about New York or Boston here the way ye are going on. Dublin is not a slow course, Linda Byrne was able to get the standard. Sean perhaps had a bad day (for his high standards), well off target pace after only 4 miles. Given that the first two miles are downhill it is not a strong argument to say the course cost him his time.. Wind however is always a factor no matter what the course.

kennyb3

Agree with woodchopper. but just to add how many times have athletes gone abroad - had a bad trip, eaten something dodgy, suffered in the heat etc etc There is a myraid of reasons for wanting to do a local marathon as well as what ecoli pointed out in bold there

SeanKenny

I think it is generally accepted in marathon terms that an elite athlete will run one - two minutes faster on courses like London, Rotterdam and Berlin than in Dublin. Linda Byrne getting the time does not mean its a fast course.

Linda is a class athlete and as I said in her thread, there is plenty more to come on a faster course given a better day.

There are advantages of running a home town marathon but in Dublin, a fast course is not one of them.

woodchopper

SeanKenny wrote: »

I think it is generally accepted in marathon terms that an elite athlete will run one - two minutes faster on courses like London, Rotterdam and Berlin than in Dublin. Linda Byrne getting the time does not mean its a fast course.

Linda is a class athlete and as I said in her thread, there is plenty more to come on a faster course given a better day.

There are advantages of running a home town marathon but in Dublin, a fast course is not one of them.

Sean was almost 4 minutes off standard not one minute , and secondly Im sure Linda can run 2.34 but the way people are going on it seems everybody lost about 5 minutes on the course.This is not the case, agree with the one minute reference but nothing more.

Pisco Sour

woodchopper wrote: »

Sean was almost 4 minutes off standard not one minute , and secondly Im sure Linda can run 2.34 but the way people are going on it seems everybody lost about 5 minutes on the course.This is not the case, agree with the one minute reference but nothing more.

1 minute is a huge amount at an elite level to be fair.

thirtyfoot

Connolly, in an Irish Runner interview a while back, said he was surprised that Kenneally wasn't to be running Dublin. He can probably see now why Kenneally didn't run. I am a big advocate of home racing but if I had an athlete who was in with a shot of making an A standard and there is likely to be just one or two chances, I would pick a race with the minimum numbers of variables and if that was overseas then so be it.

shels4ever

thirtyfoot wrote: »

Connolly, in an Irish Runner interview a while back, said he was surprised that Kenneally wasn't to be running Dublin. He can probably see now why Kenneally didn't run. I am a big advocate of home racing but if I had an athlete who was in with a shot of making an A standard and there is likely to be just one or two chances, I would pick a race with the minimum numbers of variables and if that was overseas then so be it.

Very true there, but there is also the question of funding to , people need to be able to live and to support their running. They may also have other things going on in life.

It would be ideal if people could just run the fastest races around and not worry about where the funding comes from. Think its amazing how well Sean and Mark do with the lack of funding they receive.

shels4ever

woodchopper wrote: »

Sean was almost 4 minutes off standard not one minute , and secondly Im sure Linda can run 2.34 but the way people are going on it seems everybody lost about 5 minutes on the course.This is not the case, agree with the one minute reference but nothing more.

To be fair also I think the mens standard is a little harder than the womens. Not taking anything away from Linda who I hope will go alot faster over the coming years.

What we wouldnt give for another Catherina McKiernan now.

Seres

shels4ever wrote: »

To be fair also I think the mens standard is a little harder than the womens. Not taking anything away from Linda who I hope will go alot faster over the coming years.

What we wouldnt give for another Catherina McKiernan now.

I agree , and the same for the qualifying mens/womens criteria for the elite section , doesnt seem relative :
'Athletes seeking a start in the elite area must apply for their race number by sending an email to the Marathon Office at elites@dublinmarathon.ie. The qualifying criteria are as follows: Men with times of sub 2.35 marathon, sub 72.30 half marathon or sub 54.30 for 10 miles in the previous 2 years. Women with times of sub 3.00 marathon, sub 85.00 half marathon or sub 64.00 for 10 miles in the previous 2 years'

Clearlier

shels4ever wrote: »

To be fair also I think the mens standard is a little harder than the womens. Not taking anything away from Linda who I hope will go alot faster over the coming years.

What we wouldnt give for another Catherina McKiernan now.

Both marathon qualifying standards are soft compared to all the other running events, the women's particularly so when compared to world record and 2011 world leading times. I imagine it's because it's very easy to fit in a few extra runners in the marathon compared to the track events where you may be looking at extra rounds of competition.

robinph

Seres wrote: »

I agree , and the same for the qualifying mens/womens criteria for the elite section , doesnt seem relative :
'Athletes seeking a start in the elite area must apply for their race number by sending an email to the Marathon Office at elites@dublinmarathon.ie. The qualifying criteria are as follows: Men with times of sub 2.35 marathon, sub 72.30 half marathon or sub 54.30 for 10 miles in the previous 2 years. Women with times of sub 3.00 marathon, sub 85.00 half marathon or sub 64.00 for 10 miles in the previous 2 years'

The standard to be classed as elite in the womens field is always wider, but then there are less women taking part in sport so to get any kind of numbers appearing as elite it needs a wider option.

Also means that I get some time targets to aim for, even if I don't meet their main criteria of being a wimins.

The Hammer

ecoli wrote: »

For athletes who have no funding and have focused solely on running over the last 18 month they dont always have the luxury of picking and choosing what races they do the whole time.He had hoped that his pacer would last longer than 4 miles as well as better conditions and he thought it might still be possible to hit the standard despite the course

Can someone explain why Connolly was allowed to have a pacer in the race - while all of the women on the marathon mission (and competing in the national marathon in Dublin) were given strict warnings about using pacers?

ecoli

The Hammer wrote: »

Can someone explain why Connolly was allowed to have a pacer in the race - while all of the women on the marathon mission (and competing in the national marathon in Dublin) were given strict warnings about using pacers?

Presume this is to do with IAAFs new rulings on Radcliffe? Scullion lasted 4 miles and first mile Connolly was out ahead so didnt really make much difference Besides as far as I remember seeing around the course most of the elite women were part of groups of both male and female

The Hammer

ecoli wrote: »

Presume this is to do with IAAFs new rulings on Radcliffe? Scullion lasted 4 miles and first mile Connolly was out ahead so didnt really make much difference Besides as far as I remember seeing around the course most of the elite women were part of groups of both male and female

Sure I seen that myself - the elite women are running very tidy times 2:36 - 2:44 - so they are going to be around male runners.

I just found it strange that Connolly goes and says it on National TV that he has had a pacer drop out (what happened to him - at 4 miles)?

In this case should Joe McAllister been given a pacer, Sergio? or Andrew Ledwith (who seemed to have a bad day by his standards)

Just might boil down to it not being Sean's day - which we all have had - in which case pacer or no pacer it is going to be a hard day out.

echat

The Dublin marathon course is fast enough, you cannot argue with 2:08 and a personal best for the winner.

What Dublin needs is more depth and even though that is improving, it is still behind some of its major rivals. London had 25 finishers under 2:20 and 13 under 2:14. Amsterdam had 29 and 18 respectively. Berlin 18 and 11. Dublin 13 under 2:20 and 6 under 2:14. Women are probably not as affected provided they are in among the good club men.

Mark Kenneally was 18th in Amsterdam in 2:13:55 and Gary Thornton 29th in 2:19:29. Getting into the middle of a group at the pace you want for the first 20 to 30 km is bound to assist you to get a faster time.

The course looked great even down to the green carpet and plant stand at the finish. The lead runners marshalls on bikes rather than motorbikes was a nice environmental touch.

ecoli

The Hammer wrote: »

Sure I seen that myself - the elite women are running very tidy times 2:36 - 2:44 - so they are going to be around male runners.

I just found it strange that Connolly goes and says it on National TV that he has had a pacer drop out (what happened to him - at 4 miles)?

In this case should Joe McAllister been given a pacer, Sergio? or Andrew Ledwith (who seemed to have a bad day by his standards)

Just might boil down to it not being Sean's day - which we all have had - in which case pacer or no pacer it is going to be a hard day out.

As Far as I know Scullion got stomach issues but even so pacer was only supposed to take them to 10 miles so you are right I dont think pacer made too much of an issue

If you look to the first half Sergio did have a pacer for alot. Coming by me on the course Sergio was tucked in behind Sean.

The idea of pacers being a big no no is one issued from the AAI not DCM as the championships are run in conjunction with DCM. If you look at it DCM actually recruit pacers (from here as it happens) who are official designated pacer makers for the race. There were just over 600 athletes competing in the National Championship and of these just over five hundred came through in finishing times which fall under the pacer finishing times so as such there were many championships runners availing of these.

Fact is pacers are a part of the modern marathon just ask this guy:

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-Y-iz5RekyJw/ToI6ruBhBOI/AAAAAAAAAoE/KhrssDCNlJ8/s400/berlin%2Bleaders%2Bmoabit.jpg

echat wrote: »

The Dublin marathon course is fast enough, you cannot argue with 2:08 and a personal best for the winner.

What Dublin needs is more depth and even though that is improving, it is still behind some of its major rivals. London had 25 finishers under 2:20 and 13 under 2:14. Amsterdam had 29 and 18 respectively. Berlin 18 and 11. Dublin 13 under 2:20 and 6 under 2:14. Women are probably not as affected provided they are in among the good club men.

Mark Kenneally was 18th in Amsterdam in 2:13:55 and Gary Thornton 29th in 2:19:29. Getting into the middle of a group at the pace you want for the first 20 to 30 km is bound to assist you to get a faster time.

The course looked great even down to the green carpet and plant stand at the finish. The lead runners marshalls on bikes rather than motorbikes was a nice environmental touch.

The reason for Dublin not living up to the lightning quick reputations is not just about the course but the climate you only have to look to a previous winner to see this.

Feyisa Lilesa has ran 4 marathons 3 of which have been between 2.08-2.10 (the slowest actually being his World Championship Bronze)

Of these races 1 was Dublin, and two were in high heat/humidity countries. He has ran one on one of the faster reputation courses: Rotherdam, the result was a 2.05.23

The fact is that the nature of Ireland's climate means that you very rarely get conditions condusive to faster marathon running. That is not to say its that slow but i think you will see the winner run 2.06-2.07 in the next year personally on a faster course

woodchopper

ecoli wrote: »

As Far as I know Scullion got stomach issues but even so pacer was only supposed to take them to 10 miles so you are right I dont think pacer made too much of an issue

If you look to the first half Sergio did have a pacer for alot. Coming by me on the course Sergio was tucked in behind Sean.

The idea of pacers being a big no no is one issued from the AAI not DCM as the championships are run in conjunction with DCM. If you look at it DCM actually recruit pacers (from here as it happens) who are official designated pacer makers for the race. There were just over 600 athletes competing in the National Championship and of these just over five hundred came through in finishing times which fall under the pacer finishing times so as such there were many championships runners availing of these.

Fact is pacers are a part of the modern marathon just ask this guy:

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-Y-iz5RekyJw/ToI6ruBhBOI/AAAAAAAAAoE/KhrssDCNlJ8/s400/berlin%2Bleaders%2Bmoabit.jpg




The reason for Dublin not living up to the lightning quick reputations is not just about the course but the climate you only have to look to a previous winner to see this.

Feyisa Lilesa has ran 4 marathons 3 of which have been between 2.08-2.10 (the slowest actually being his World Championship Bronze)

Of these races 1 was Dublin, and two were in high heat/humidity countries. He has ran one on one of the faster reputation courses: Rotherdam, the result was a 2.05.23

The fact is that the nature of Ireland's climate means that you very rarely get conditions condusive to faster marathon running. That is not to say its that slow but i think you will see the winner run 2.06-2.07 in the next year personally on a faster course

Under this logic, the course where the winner ran 2.11 is 3 minutes slower than Dublin. One cannot reasonably conclude that the winner would have run 2.06 on another course on Monday using the same tactics. There is a gradual progression in the marathon as you well know.

thirstywork2

Sean is living in the Uk now so the point about him picking it due to money and travel expenses is BS.
we moan about runners not doing Dublin and when they run it we moan.
The marathon mission are trying to encourage runners to run Dublin.there was a nice bit of money incentives if you broke 2.25
Sean is a class athlete and has ran 4minutes for the mile this year.Hopefully he can crack the time in his next marathon and make the olympics.

G-Money

It's a shame he missed out on it alright, he seemed pretty gutted at the end. Hopefully he will get the A standard at a future race.

ecoli

woodchopper wrote: »

Under this logic, the course where the winner ran 2.11 is 3 minutes slower than Dublin. One cannot reasonably conclude that the winner would have run 2.06 on another course on Monday using the same tactics. There is a gradual progression in the marathon as you well know.

Personally I do think that conditions on Monday did contribute to about 90 sec -2 min with weather etc. I do know that gradual progression is also a factor but what I am saying is that I do believe Ndungu is in about that shape given his half marathon performance in the Kaernten HM back in August. Obviously there is the possibility of him being HM specialist.

As Thirstywork says we saw our first native born sub 2.20 on home soil in a long while we should be happy to see that the MM is achieving its mission statement in reviving both Irish Standards but also race standards

He has Spring marathon targetted so hopefully he will bang out the time needed and can have the best of both worlds in winning Marathon National championship as well as getting the standard for London

Sprocket77

G-Money wrote: »

It's a shame he missed out on it alright, he seemed pretty gutted at the end. Hopefully he will get the A standard at a future race.

Speaking of which, what happens if Sean does get the A Standard and Alistair Cragg and Martin Fagan also hit the mark, (as both are well capable of). Will it be the three fastest times between them and Mark Kenneally, or would there need to be a raceoff between them?

ecoli

Sprocket77 wrote: »

Speaking of which, what happens if Sean does get the A Standard and Alistair Cragg and Martin Fagan also hit the mark, (as both are well capable of). Will it be the three fastest times between them and Mark Kenneally, or would there need to be a raceoff between them?

3 fastest times they wouldnt be able to have them run 3 marathons (Qualifying, race off and Olympics) Either that or Cragg may opt for a 10k option? hard to tell

Hard Worker

My own opinion on this: there are advantages to running in Dublin, such as good support on the course. You are almost guaranteed to get your drinks at the special drinks station, and, contrary to what you may think, the climate in Dublin, four times out of five, will be perfect for racing. Both winners this year ran pbs, with the womens time being a Namibian record. Sokolov broke the Russian record in Dublin. Lilesa jogged around it a couple of years ago in sub 2.09 ( he only did what he had to do to win ). I know lots of people who have run London and yet their pb was run in Dublin.
Regarding pacing: again, contrary to what has been written in this thread, nobody was given a warning about pacing before the event. You cannot give someone a warning on the pretence that they are going to commit an offence. The only person who can give a warning is the race referee. A couple of athletes made enquiries to me about pacing and I gave them my answer, and that was that it is totally up to the race referee.
While we have a small budget for elite athletes compared to Berlin, it should be noted that Dublin 2010 had better times between 5th and 10th place than Berlin 2011 had between 5th and 10th. There is plenty of depth. We just need to get our Irish men and women up there and I think we are making progress.

Hard Worker

ecoli wrote: »

3 fastest times they wouldnt be able to have them run 3 marathons (Qualifying, race off and Olympics) Either that or Cragg may opt for a 10k option? hard to tell

Not sure if that is correct.
It is possible that Sean would be the first to be selected as long as he achieves the qualifying standard before the cut off date. It would then be down to the fastest two after that.

TheRoadRunner

Hard Worker wrote: »

Not sure if that is correct.
It is possible that Sean would be the first to be selected as long as he achieves the qualifying standard before the cut off date. It would then be down to the fastest two after that.

Is this because he is the national marathon champ? I thought the OCI threw a spanner in this approach. I'll be honest I hope we encounter this dilemma

shels4ever

Hard Worker wrote: »

Not sure if that is correct.
It is possible that Sean would be the first to be selected as long as he achieves the qualifying standard before the cut off date. It would then be down to the fastest two after that.

If thats the case that would be a major reason to run Dublin .

ecoli

Didnt actually consider the National championship aspect in terms of influencing selectioin process. Would be an interesting dilemma for the selectors alright although I think we are getting ahead of ourselves a bit with that talk as to date we have one qualifier and never know what can happen in the spring

Woddle

I think Cragg is going to run a blinder, I wonder will PP offer odds on a Cragg breaking the national record.

ecoli

Hard Worker wrote: »

Regarding pacing: again, contrary to what has been written in this thread, nobody was given a warning about pacing before the event. You cannot give someone a warning on the pretence that they are going to commit an offence. The only person who can give a warning is the race referee. A couple of athletes made enquiries to me about pacing and I gave them my answer, and that was that it is totally up to the race referee.

I dunno about it this year but the poster who brought it up could have been referring to last year when a statement was issued (by the AAI) about this:

http://www.athleticsireland.ie/content/?p=15732

ecoli

Woddle wrote: »

I think Cragg is going to run a blinder, I wonder will PP offer odds on a Cragg breaking the national record.

Say you may be able to request a price though I doubt there will be a market done up. Odds are though that you wont be too happy with the price especially after him breaking the 5k this year;)

TheRoadRunner

ecoli wrote: »

Say you may be able to request a price though I doubt there will be a market done up. Odds are though that you wont be too happy with the price especially after him breaking the 5k this year;)

If only we had an inside man who could give us mental odds. That would be great .... oh wait

ecoli

TheRoadRunner wrote: »

If only we had an inside man who could give us mental odds. That would be great .... oh wait

Only if one of you guys places my bets haha in that case we could manage 10/1 odds:p other than that its a 1/5 shot:D

Woddle

TheRoadRunner wrote: »

If only we had an inside man who could give us mental odds. That would be great .... oh wait

Don't think he was getting the hint

ecoli

Woddle wrote: »

Don't think he was getting the hint

It was too subtle;)

thirstywork2

I thought if Sean ran the time in Dublin then he was selected.Didn't think if he missed it and then ran it somewere else he was 100% to be selected.

What odds PP giving on Cragg for a dnf

ecoli

thirstywork2 wrote: »

I thought if Sean ran the time in Dublin then he was selected.Didn't think if he missed it and then ran it somewere else he was 100% to be selected.

What odds PP giving on Cragg for a dnf

Bout the same as a NR:D

thirtyfoot

Hard Worker wrote: »

Not sure if that is correct.
It is possible that Sean would be the first to be selected as long as he achieves the qualifying standard before the cut off date. It would then be down to the fastest two after that.

Selection policy seems to be suitably vague but I don't see reference to Nationals determining selection. Fitness and form are pre-requisites which is why track and field nationals may be relevant. Careful to avoid 2000 style court cases over selection, didn't the OCI rule that Dublin would have no bearing on selection apart from athletes being able to achieve the time? If 4 guys get the time, there will be some craic trying to pick three.

liamo123

Slightly off topic but seeing we've a few bookies in the mix what the odds on Caitriona Jennings getting the A standard in her next marathon outing ???

woodchopper

thirtyfoot wrote: »

Selection policy seems to be suitably vague but I don't see reference to Nationals determining selection. Fitness and form are pre-requisites which is why track and field nationals may be relevant. Careful to avoid 2000 style court cases over selection, didn't the OCI rule that Dublin would have no bearing on selection apart from athletes being able to achieve the time? If 4 guys get the time, there will be some craic trying to pick three.

Cant see track nationals been relevant to the marathoners. Racing a 10k is hardly ideal preparation for a marathon. No way could they run a 10k to their full potential without it impacting on their marathon training.

thirtyfoot

woodchopper wrote: »

Cant see track nationals been relevant to the marathoners. Racing a 10k is hardly ideal preparation for a marathon. No way could they run a 10k to their full potential without it impacting on their marathon training.

Not saying it should be. Nationals is relevant for the track and field events but not marathon. National marathon is too far away from August 2012 to be relevant.

However there will still need to be a demonstration of fitness at some stage. I would hate to see Fagan or Cragg go and drop out with either Kenneally or Connolly at home with the time. If more than 3 have it I believe fastest 3 should go as long as they are fit.

myflipflops

thirtyfoot wrote: »

If more than 3 have it I believe fastest 3 should go as long as they are fit.

This has to be it. 3 fastest times as long as fitness and some amount of form is shown next summer.

We are getting ahead of ourselves though.

echat

woodchopper wrote: »

Cant see track nationals been relevant to the marathoners. Racing a 10k is hardly ideal preparation for a marathon. No way could they run a 10k to their full potential without it impacting on their marathon training.

But the highlight of his John Treacy's distinguished career came during the 1984 Olympic Games held in Los Angeles where he won the silver medal in the Marathon. John had finished 9th in the final of the 10,000 m, he was running his first marathon so public expectation was not high. Showing great courage and strength, he ran a great race to finish second, cutting the Irish record by the 2 ½ minutes and covering the 26 miles in 2 hours, 9 minutes and 55 seconds.

robinph

I think that two fastest times, and if you're lucky enough to have another 2 or more with A standard times then use a bit of discretion on deciding who gets the 3rd depending on form and who the others already picked are.

Sometimes there might be someone who just has to be sent to the Olympics. If Haile was the 4th fastest Ethiopian time then I would still think he should be sent for instance, similarly for Radcliffe. Of course if they have the fastest times then it's not an issue.

It's a good position for a country to be in to have to make a selection on who to send, hopefully that will be the case for Ireland.

thirstywork2

woodchopper wrote: »

Cant see track nationals been relevant to the marathoners. Racing a 10k is hardly ideal preparation for a marathon. No way could they run a 10k to their full potential without it impacting on their marathon training.

John Treacy might disagree,could have sworn he ran a 10k on the track in LA and then went on to grab the silver in the marathon.
didnt see echats message already woops.

woodchopper

thirstywork2 wrote: »

John Treacy might disagree,could have sworn he ran a 10k on the track in LA and then went on to grab the silver in the marathon.
didnt see echats message already woops.

Did he medal in the 10k?

Answer is No

Why?
Because he was training for the marathon

The marathon does not revolve around John Treacy you know. One swallow does not make a summer. Therefore your argument is flawed on an empirical level as you fail to take into account other athletes and how their marathon training impacts on a fast 10k. Also if Kenneally beats Fagan in a 10k at nationals, does this mean he will run a better marathon in London?

The answer again is no, therefore by and large a 10k on the track is not specific towards a marathon in terms of indicating potential performance.

TheRoadRunner

woodchopper wrote: »

Did he medal in the 10k?

Answer is No

Why?
Because he was training for the marathon

Woody your argument made be in fact flawed. Tracey did train for the 10k and marathon was the secondary race IIRC.

ecoli

woodchopper wrote: »

The marathon does not revolve around John Treacy you know. One swallow does not make a summer. Therefore your argument is flawed on an empirical level as you fail to take into account other athletes and how their marathon training impacts on a fast 10k. Also if Kenneally beats Fagan in a 10k at nationals, does this mean he will run a better marathon in London?

But what about Viren and Zatopek:D

woodchopper

TheRoadRunner wrote: »

Woody your argument made be in fact flawed. Tracey did train for the 10k and marathon was the secondary race IIRC.

Salazar trained for the 10k and guess what happened in the LA marathon?

He blew up. Not everyone can run a good marathon of 10k training you know.

PS: Please dont call me woody .