Greece will hold a referendum on bailout

Adamisconfused · 31-10-2011 8:48pm

4leto wrote: »

If they don't get a bail out the state will fail, just like Argentina in the 80s, public services will cease. We are not in a much better position with-out the bail out cash our public services will also cease.

I agree that they will fail without the bailout. They'll probably be stuffed anyway, but definitely sooner if they turn their noses up to the current funding.

If they aren't simply playing hardball to get a better deal from the EU, it'll be a case of put up or shut up for the general Greek population. They are faced with accepting the terms and enduring huge cuts across the board, with tens of thousands losing their jobs in the public service, or not accepting the bailout and still enduring huge cuts across the board, with tens of thousands losing their jobs in the public service. Either way, the referendum makes the protests and violence rather pointless.

Crazy Horse 6 · 31-10-2011 8:50pm

Thank you Greece. Hope it takes the whole rotten Eurozone down with it.

amacca · 31-10-2011 8:55pm

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

Civil and then European

Good......I've never liked those French and I have been preparing myself both physically and mentally for the inevitable

rest assured I shall give a good account of myself and I hall not be found wanting when frenchy comes to call

Vive Irelande....Allez les verts!

4leto · 31-10-2011 8:57pm

Not really one way if they take the loan they can still pay their public servants and some welfare, the other way they can't.

What they are voting for whether they know it or not is a return to the drachma. That is a solution to their problems, but none of their debts will be repaid, there will be a serious knock on effect from that.

4leto · 31-10-2011 8:58pm

Crazy Horse 6 wrote: »

Thank you Greece. Hope it takes the whole rotten Eurozone down with it.

You really don' want that to happen, what do you think the Punt Nua will be worth, fcuk all is the answer.

woodoo · 31-10-2011 9:00pm

The Greeks response to this crisis is very interesting. We have been the teachers pet and they have been down the back of the class playing up. Who will come out of it all better i wonder.

Chips Lovell · 31-10-2011 9:02pm

I think the Greeks would want to take a look at what happened to Argentina around 2000 and ask themselves if that's what they want.

Teclo · 31-10-2011 9:05pm

RachaelVO wrote: »

I know the artificially inflated their books to get into the EU, but did Goldman Sachs really help them, was there not someone else involved in it (too)?

They always looked like a shifty lot to me.

For Forks Sake · 31-10-2011 9:09pm

Teclo wrote: »

They always looked like a shifty lot to me.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T55ArHjeR1c

Seaneh · 31-10-2011 9:15pm

Saila wrote: »

crumble and fall into the sea pretty much, we cant

Absolute bollocks.

Iceland crumbled and fell into the sea, did they?

My name is URL · 31-10-2011 9:25pm

Seaneh wrote: »

Absolute bollocks.

Iceland crumbled and fell into the sea, did they?

Iceland is unique though.. it has a population of 320,000 and has a wealth of natural resources to help it through any rough patches. 80% of its energy comes from geothermal & hydropower.

EI_Flyboy · 31-10-2011 9:26pm

steve9859 wrote: »

People aren't asking the question. Rather it is accepted fact that they would not have been compliant if it were not for a Currency swap arranged by goldman Sachs. The transaction was legal at the time, but such trades were subsequently made illegal. If you google Goldmans, Greece, Swaps, you will find all the sordid detail

Italy, Portugal and Spain have done the same, different banks apparently though.

dj jarvis · 31-10-2011 9:28pm

Seaneh wrote: »

Absolute bollocks.

Iceland crumbled and fell into the sea, did they?

Iceland has a 90% debt gdp - Ireland has from 180% to 240% depending who you reference

Iceland does have a problem but it nothing like our problems

so not the amount of bollocks you think

Anita Blow · 31-10-2011 9:32pm

dj jarvis wrote: »

Iceland has a 90% debt gdp - Ireland has from 180% to 240% depending who you reference

Icelands debt:gdp ratio is 140% against Ireland's ~100%
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_sovereign_states_by_public_debt

Saila · 31-10-2011 9:38pm

Seaneh wrote: »

Absolute bollocks.

Iceland crumbled and fell into the sea, did they?

My name is URL wrote: »

Iceland is unique though.. it has a population of 320,000 and has a wealth of natural resources to help it through any rough patches. 80% of its energy comes from geothermal & hydropower.

to add to that URL they also have their own currency and control their own inflation and economy, we dont seaneh

dj jarvis · 31-10-2011 9:48pm

Anita Blow wrote: »

Icelands debt:gdp ratio is 140% against Ireland's ~100%
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_sovereign_states_by_public_debt

yea ..... funny but wiki also say iceland has a 90% gdp !!!!
suggest you try somewhere other than wiki and get back to me

try this for size
http://www.oecd-ilibrary.org/economics/country-statistical-profile-iceland_20752288-table-isl

http://www.oecd-ilibrary.org/economics/country-statistical-profile-ireland_20752288-table-irl

Anita Blow · 31-10-2011 10:00pm

dj jarvis wrote: »

yea ..... funny but wiki also say iceland has a 90% gdp !!!!
suggest you try somewhere other than wiki and get back to me

How about the eurostat publication it cites which puts Irelands debt % at 96% this year.
http://epp.eurostat.ec.europa.eu/cache/ITY_PUBLIC/2-26042011-AP/EN/2-26042011-AP-EN.PDF

4leto · 31-10-2011 10:05pm

Anita Blow wrote: »

How about the eurostat publication it cites which puts Irelands debt % at 96% this year.
http://epp.eurostat.ec.europa.eu/cache/ITY_PUBLIC/2-26042011-AP/EN/2-26042011-AP-EN.PDF

In 2010 the largest government deficits in percentage of GDP were recorded in Ireland (-32.4%), Greece (-10.5%),
the United Kingdom (-10.4%), Spain (-9.2%), Portugal (-9.1%), Poland (-7.9%), Slovakia (-7.9%), Latvia
(-7.7%), Lithuania (-7.1%) and France (-7.0%). The lowest deficits were recorded in Luxembourg (-1.7%),
Finland (-2.5%) and Denmark (-2.7%). Estonia (0.1%) registered a slight government surplus in 2010 and
Sweden (0.0%) was in balance. In all, 21 Member States recorded an improvement in their government balance
relative to GDP in 2010 compared with 2009 and six a worsening

Jesus
We are in trouble.

JONJO THE MISER · 31-10-2011 10:06pm

The Greeks will vote no and then they will have to default and exit the euro, endgame Europe, its all over folks.

dj jarvis · 31-10-2011 10:06pm

Anita Blow wrote: »

How about the eurostat publication it cites which puts Irelands debt % at 96% this year.
http://epp.eurostat.ec.europa.eu/cache/ITY_PUBLIC/2-26042011-AP/EN/2-26042011-AP-EN.PDF

LOL this could get interesting - so if all 3 are quoting different amounts how can we find a definitive answer ???

since i have checked this i have gotten 3 different figures for Iceland and 4 for Ireland :eek:

https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/ei.html
https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/ic.html

even the mighty CIA are saying something else

AlmightyCushion · 31-10-2011 10:06pm

4leto wrote: »

In 2010 the largest government deficits in percentage of GDP were recorded in Ireland (-32.4%), Greece (-10.5%),
the United Kingdom (-10.4%), Spain (-9.2%), Portugal (-9.1%), Poland (-7.9%), Slovakia (-7.9%), Latvia
(-7.7%), Lithuania (-7.1%) and France (-7.0%). The lowest deficits were recorded in Luxembourg (-1.7%),
Finland (-2.5%) and Denmark (-2.7%). Estonia (0.1%) registered a slight government surplus in 2010 and
Sweden (0.0%) was in balance. In all, 21 Member States recorded an improvement in their government balance
relative to GDP in 2010 compared with 2009 and six a worsening

Jesus
We are in trouble.

We really need to reduce out deficit big time.

AlmightyCushion · 31-10-2011 10:09pm

dj jarvis wrote: »

LOL this could get interesting - so if all 3 are quoting different amounts how can we find a definitive answer ???

since i have checked this i have gotten 3 different figures for Iceland and 4 for Ireland :eek:

https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/ei.html
https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/ic.html

even the mighty CIA are saying something else

No it doesn't. From the Ireland page:

Public debt:

96.7% of GDP (2010 est.)

Anita Blow · 31-10-2011 10:12pm

4leto wrote: »

In 2010 the largest government deficits in percentage of GDP were recorded in Ireland (-32.4%), Greece (-10.5%),
the United Kingdom (-10.4%), Spain (-9.2%), Portugal (-9.1%), Poland (-7.9%), Slovakia (-7.9%), Latvia
(-7.7%), Lithuania (-7.1%) and France (-7.0%). The lowest deficits were recorded in Luxembourg (-1.7%),
Finland (-2.5%) and Denmark (-2.7%). Estonia (0.1%) registered a slight government surplus in 2010 and
Sweden (0.0%) was in balance. In all, 21 Member States recorded an improvement in their government balance
relative to GDP in 2010 compared with 2009 and six a worsening

Jesus
We are in trouble.

That's due to EU saying we had to include the bank recapitalisation as government debt this year, rather than going off the books.

JONJO THE MISER · 31-10-2011 10:13pm

Crazy Horse 6 wrote: »

Thank you Greece. Hope it takes the whole rotten Eurozone down with it.

Yes i hope so too, back to our Irish Punts which we can devalue if we want.
No more Europe telling us what to do, cant wait.

dj jarvis · 31-10-2011 10:14pm

AlmightyCushion wrote: »

No it doesn't. From the Ireland page:

Public debt:

96.7% of GDP (2010 est.)

which is different from the 3 other pages i have looked at , some close and some miles off - and my point was that no one has a definitive answer as of yet - i put up the CIA as a joke - they are not well know for their financial prowess - it was to show that a LOT of the statistics on line vary wildly

if you can find me the absolute 100% definitive answer to Ireland and Iceland's gdp and debt gdp i would be thankful becasue ALMOST every site i visit has differing figures

4leto · 31-10-2011 10:14pm

AlmightyCushion wrote: »

We really need to reduce out deficit big time.

Or else achieve a 10% growth rate over the next few years, now that's not going to happen.

I keep liking our crisis to the phony war in Britain in 39, it was all nice and hopeful then the **** hit the fan. In our case the fan is moving closer to the ****. We need to cut 15 billion from our budget, its 6 this year, but I haven't a clue were the other 9 will come from.

He really has to sack some public servants, and cut substantially into social welfare health and pensions all very politically sensitive areas.

RachaelVO · 31-10-2011 10:15pm

the groutch wrote: »

Fianna Fail?

Best answer of the night that!!!!!!!!!

Love it, thanks for that, brightened up my entire evening

4leto · 31-10-2011 10:17pm

Anita Blow wrote: »

That's due to EU saying we had to include the bank recapitalisation as government debt this year, rather than going off the books.

I remember that, but it was us trying to cook the books, the bank recapitisations (thanks to Lenihan) was a public debt.

But we are still running a deficit of 20 billion a year so it is still very high.

My name is URL · 31-10-2011 10:19pm

JONJO THE MISER wrote: »

The Greeks will vote no and then they will have to default and exit the euro, endgame Europe, its all over folks.

I don't believe they'll vote against it tbh. I think the majority of Greek people, despite how downtrodden they must feel right now, will have the sense to see that by going it alone would mean a much harsher sentence for them in the short-medium term.

In all honesty, I don't disagree with your views on the € , but wanting it to fail quickly just because you don't 'like' it is asinine. I'm not fussed on it at all, but I'd rather not have it crash and burn. A smooth and ordered winding up of the currency would be better for everyone.

dj jarvis · 31-10-2011 10:25pm

4leto wrote: »

I remember that, but it was us trying to cook the books, the bank recapitisations (thanks to Lenihan) was a public debt.

But we are still running a deficit of 20 billion a year so it is still very high.

in fairness our deficit was running at 14.5% 3 years ago and ( hopefully ) will hit the 8.5 by next year - doing this with out cutting public sector jobs was skillful to say the least - but job have to go - nothing else left to cut really

would i be right in thinking 90% of the education budget goes on teachers wages and pensions - that is just un sustainable - and that is just one part of the huge mess that will have to be targeted

and as luck would have it me being self employed i have to pay my income tax tomorrow for the year - im so broke i have to BORROW to pay it
so i have to borrow so lazy bastards that NEVER worked can have massive hand outs and free accommodation ( yes i know they pay some but very little ) and teachers and they like can have really good terms and conditions - and dont get me going on the semi states
i really dont know why i bother - i would be better off on the dole myself
but being self employed i cant even get that

Greece will hold a referendum on bailout

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